FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

1 hour ago, Art said:

 

Except this is untrue.

 

Haskins is, actually, arguably the No. 1 prospect.   Kyler Murray is not a slam dunk prospect.  Murray is a 6.25 ranking on NFL.com.   Haskins is a 6.20.   There's not much separating them.   All of Murray's negatives are Haskins positives.   All of Haskins negatives are Murray's positives.   But there are a lot of people who had Haskins as the No. 1 QB on their board early, middle, late and LAST NIGHT in the draft process.   It is laughable to suggest there was a clear No. 1.   There wasn't.   If the Cards pick a different coach, there's every chance Haskins goes before Murray.

It is fair to say the reasonable thing that NO QB in this draft enters the league as an "elite" draft prospect based on grade.   No one is ANY WHERE CLOSE to RGIII for example as an NFL draft prospect by grade.   I do not love Haskins.    I do prefer a smart pocket QB who makes quick decisions to a guy who lives on athleticism.   In that, Haskins is THE best QB in this draft, by significant margin.   And that happens to be PRECISELY what Gruden wants in a QB.   Haskins is a bigger, stronger, more accurate, better-armed Kirk Cousins, who fit beautifully in Gruden's scheme.   Think Andy Dalton under Gruden.   Haskins is the prototype for what Jay Gruden desires in a QB in terms of what he brings to the table.

Time will tell if he has the mental element of the game to process quickly enough to be any good, but the kid played better against top competition than any other player in college football a year ago.   He played on a very good team.   He thinks he's the best player at his position in the draft.   NOT being upset about being taken after two guys you think you're better than and ONE EVERYONE ELSE agrees you are would be a troubling thing.   Any spin that his reaction to "falling" to No. 15 is in ANY way negative makes the person suggesting that the owner of imbecilic thoughts.

 

i Don't have the energy or the time to respond to your very long winded but well spoken and thought out response line for line but If I am understanding you correctly you are going on record saying that Haskins will have the better season & or career then Murray... I respect your opinion and will bookmark and revisit this at season's end. Redskins always come before my own pride so i really, really hope you are correct. HTTR

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Well, this is interesting lol...

 

 

 

[Art]

1 minute ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

i Don't have the energy or the time to respond to your very long winded but well spoken and thought out response. If I am understanding you correctly you are going on record saying that Haskins will have the better season & or career then Murray... I respect your opinion and will bookmark and revisit this at season's end. Redskins always come before my own pride so i really, really hope you are correct. HTTR

 

I have no clue if Haskins will be a better pro than Murray or not.   No one does.   And the NFL grade for both suggests you could be right thinking either will be superior to the other.   I will say Murray is EXCEPTIONALLY slight.   Wilson has and can carry 20 to 30 pounds more and remain an acceptable athlete.   Murray will never weigh more than 205 and remain anything worth having.   That lack of thickness suggests to me that like RGIII who while bigger, thicker and stronger, but who lacked the frame for the NFL grind, that Murray will have some exceptional moments, but ultimately be a disappointing professional.

Haskins, for his athletic flaws, has the body thickness to survive in the NFL and if he has the brain to shine he has, in my view, more potential to have a successful long-term career than Murray by some margin.   In any case, I'm not totally on board with your statement you lack the energy or time to respond.   You had the energy and time to spew some significantly flawed thoughts.   You should create similar to discuss such, but, I will accept your polite walk back as doing something equally wise and less stressful so on that good on ya.

 

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

1 hour ago, Stadium-Armory said:

There will always be question marks about drafted players, especially QBs. Look at Rodgers, Brady, Russell Wilson. Hell, even Drew Brees was too short. What makes me feel good about it, is that we got value. We didn't spend future draft capital and we got a good guy at a resonable draft position. Short of a "sure thing", that is all you can hope for.

I agree 100% I love the fact we got value at 15 and i was completly ok with the Redskins taking Haskins in this spot. But I'm questioning if we really wants to play for us.

Just now, Art said:

 

I have no clue if Haskins will be a better pro than Murray or not.   No one does.   And the NFL grade for both suggests you could be right thinking either will be superior to the other.   I will say Murray is EXCEPTIONALLY slight.   Wilson has and can carry 20 to 30 pounds more and remain an acceptable athlete.   Murray will never weigh more than 205 and remain anything worth having.   That lack of thickness suggests to me that like RGIII who while bigger, thicker and stronger, but who lacked the frame for the NFL grind, that Murray will have some exceptional moments, but ultimately be a disappointing professional.

Haskins, for his athletic flaws, has the body thickness to survive in the NFL and if he has the brain to shine he has, in my view, more potential to have a successful long-term career than Murray by some margin.   In any case, I'm not totally on board with your statement you lack the energy or time to respond.   You had the energy and time to spew some significantly flawed thoughts.   You should create similar to discuss such, but, I will accept your polite walk back as doing something equally wise and less stressful so on that good on ya.

 

So now you are backing down on your intentional claim that Haskins was in fact the top QB in this draft ?    In that, Haskins is THE best QB in this draft, by significant margin.  You are standing by this quote or not ?

[The Batman]

3 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

I agree 100% I love the fact we got value at 15 and i was completly ok with the Redskins taking Haskins in this spot. But I'm questioning if we really wants to play for us.

So now you are backing down on your intentional claim that Haskins was in fact the top QB in this draft ?    In that, Haskins is THE best QB in this draft, by significant margin.  You are standing by this quote or not ?

What would people think of any of us if there was a camera feed on the most stressful moment of our lives? This speculation regarding him not wanting to play here is completely baseless and coming from a no-audio feed of his facial reactions to a pressure cooker of stress. 

[JaxJoe]

19 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

Let's say Haskins starts next year.  What are your expectations for the offense?  What do you predict for a record? Let's be honest, it will be ugly, and there will be little optimism by December.  And around and around we go.

I’m going to let the pre-season play out before making such predictions. Gruden does have a dilemma in that two of his three QBs are new and I expect some bumps in the road. I recall Gruden at the owners meeting lamenting coaching a rookie QB if he’s not expected to be the starter - saying he’d rather devote all of his time on the expected starter thus maximizing his reps. But he could've been referencing a question about grooming a lower round QB. 

[Enforcer_FFX]

24 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Also, can I say how much I hate the "other teams with QB needs passed on him" argument that some are using in criticize the pick...by that same logic, the fact that the Giants drafted Jones @ #6 means he's an elite talent that all the other QB-needy teams would have picked if they had the chance. This logic dictates that Jones be seen as a worthy pick at #6 and Haskins be seen as a reach at #15...because it's based primarily on how many QB-needy teams passed on each prospect. That's lazy analysis.

This is true.  For example - those that say "Denver passed on him."  Ummm, that actually leans in Haskins' favor.  Just look at Elway's track record with QB's: Osweiller, Lynch, Simien, etc.

[Warhead36]

Teams picking near the top of the draft are bad teams. Bad teams make bad decisions(that's how they end up bad). Thus, passing on Haskins could be looked at as a bad decision. So, the logic works both ways really if you think about it.

[Art]

3 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

I agree 100% I love the fact we got value at 15 and i was completly ok with the Redskins taking Haskins in this spot. But I'm questioning if we really wants to play for us.

So now you are backing down on your intentional claim that Haskins was in fact the top QB in this draft ?    In that, Haskins is THE best QB in this draft, by significant margin.  You are standing by this quote or not ?

 

Ahh.   I see we may have difficulty communicating as you appear to have some difficulty processing words presented to you that others would quickly and more clearly grasp.   Here is what I said.   

"But there are a lot of people who had Haskins as the No. 1 QB on their board early, middle, late and LAST NIGHT in the draft process.   It is laughable to suggest there was a clear No. 1.   There wasn't.   If the Cards pick a different coach, there's every chance Haskins goes before Murray."

 

When you quote, you should quote contextually as you'll understand better.   I did not say, "In that, Haskins is THE best QB in the draft, by significant margin," in a vacuum.   The IMMEDIATE sentence to that, which was the context of "In that," in what you quoted, was, "I do prefer a smart pocket QB who makes quick decisions to a guy who lives on athleticism."

I did not say Haskins was the top QB in the draft.   I said your claim there WAS a top QB in the draft was not accurate.   I happen to dislike all QBs in this draft, but, sure, I do tend to prefer Haskins as I perceive he will have a longer career due to body size if nothing else, but NO ONE IN THIS draft is all that highly rated as a draft prospect, and no one in this draft was clearly ranked in any even MAJORITY way as the best player there as many have openly stated Haskins was the best player at that position in this draft.  

Yes, I very clearly stand behind my actual statement that Haskins is CLEARLY the best pocket QB in this draft who does not make his living on athleticism.   Murray has strengths too.   He's the most athletic player at that position, BY FAR.   That may equate to his success.   I merely said your position he was even a near consensus top player at his spot was not at all accurate as the grade for both was so close by even those who did feel he was superior to Haskins overall.

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 minutes ago, Enforcer_FFX said:

This is true.  For example - those that say "Denver passed on him."  Ummm, that actually leans in Haskins' favor.  Just look at Elway's track record with QB's: Osweiller, Lynch, Simien, etc.

 

very true about Elway and his QB history lol...and it also ignores the BPA philosophy many teams take in the 1st.

[JSSkinz]

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Well, this is interesting lol...

 

 

 

 

We bluffed by leaking BS and it worked, the FO won't get any credit for it but it sure looks like that's the way it worked out.

[justice98]

2 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

I agree with you that the chiefs and Packers had better options at QB the year that they drafted a QB, and had a better chance of winning with their other QB that year, but do you feel Mahomes throws for 50 TDS his rookie year?  I think a year on the sideline helped his development tremendously.  

 

And remember David Carr?  The rookie QB who started right away and got his brains beat in bc his surrounding offensive teammates were terrible.  Many feel he could never overcome the trauma of those early years.  

 

It all boils down to a simple pros And cons of sitting a year.  The pros are it allows us to better build some offensive talent around him during another off-season while he learns the system and adjusts to life in the NFL.  The cons are it does not give him a year of starting experience to help him progress. (We aren't sacrificing wins if he sits, we aren't winning with a rookie QB with little talent around him.  And another con would be less excitement for the fans to see their shiny new toy, but that is irrelevant to me and should be irrelevant to this decision).  But I feel if he is getting pummeled back there, or he is just flat out unsuccessful due to lack of receiving threats, it will negatively effect his confidence, and stunt his development.  Also, the gray cloud will form over DC, and the media will instantly pour on negativity as it always does.   Not the way a 22 year old should start his career.  And with this regime, if the shiny new toy loses its shine (all because they threw him into a situation where it was impossible to succeed), do they throw Haskins on the scrap heap after two failed seasons and start fresh? 

 

I know the DC media will always be ruthless, and I don't expect to be the greatest show on turf after another off-season, but I think it will be an improved situation overall.  

 

Let's say Haskins starts next year.  What are your expectations for the offense?  What do you predict for a record? Let's be honest, it will be ugly, and there will be little optimism by December.  And around and around we go.

 

Mahomes probablymdoesnt throw for 50 as a rookie, but that wouldnt be a reason he shouldnt have played.  I dont think him playing or not playing had any bearing on the season he put up.  You dominate the league as a 2nd year QB, you're just really good no matter what.

 

Relative to the David Carr point, while I dont think we're anything more than an average team, we're not an expansion team.  Carr was thrown into a perfect storm of misery.  I'm not worried Haskins will suffer that fate.

 

I think it wll depends on Haskins.  Will an offense built around running the football be significantly worse with Haskins over Keenum?  I don't really think so.  I see marginal difference in the record. Couple of games maybe.  But I don't think we're 10-6 with Keenum and 3-13 with Haskins.  Provided Haskins isnt a complete stiff, that is.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

7 minutes ago, Art said:

 

Ahh.   I see we may have difficulty communicating as you appear to have some difficulty processing words presented to you that others would quickly and more clearly grasp.   Here is what I said.   

"But there are a lot of people who had Haskins as the No. 1 QB on their board early, middle, late and LAST NIGHT in the draft process.   It is laughable to suggest there was a clear No. 1.   There wasn't.   If the Cards pick a different coach, there's every chance Haskins goes before Murray."

 

When you quote, you should quote contextually as you'll understand better.   I did not say, "In that, Haskins is THE best QB in the draft, by significant margin," in a vacuum.   The IMMEDIATE sentence to that, which was the context of "In that," in what you quoted, was, "I do prefer a smart pocket QB who makes quick decisions to a guy who lives on athleticism."

I did not say Haskins was the top QB in the draft.   I said your claim there WAS a top QB in the draft was not accurate.   I happen to dislike all QBs in this draft, but, sure, I do tend to prefer Haskins as I perceive he will have a longer career due to body size if nothing else, but NO ONE IN THIS draft is all that highly rated as a draft prospect, and no one in this draft was clearly ranked in any even MAJORITY way as the best player there as many have openly stated Haskins was the best player at that position in this draft.  

Yes, I very clearly stand behind my actual statement that Haskins is CLEARLY the best pocket QB in this draft who does not make his living on athleticism.   Murray has strengths too.   He's the most athletic player at that position, BY FAR.   That may equate to his success.   I merely said your position he was even a near consensus top player at his spot was not at all accurate as the grade for both was so close by even those who did feel he was superior to Haskins overall.

 

Listen no need to be rude or turn this into a personnel attack we are on the same team my friend. I wish Haskins all the best and as a Redskins fan i hope he kills it next season and destroys the Giants. I'm going to ask you a simple question though that you can  respond to .... K Ready ? Who will be the better QB next season and who will have the better Career playing QB , Haskins or Murray ?

[dc1]

1 hour ago, Art said:

 

Nope.

 

Dan didn't make the pick.

 

Dan does like the pick as he should.   Black kid in a black town with local ties who knows his kid who falls inside the team's desire for big-time programs for big-time picks.

 

Unless Haskins is CLEARLY before ALL of our eyes the best player in the preseason he will not open the season as the starter.   And he might not then in any case.   It's likely he'll start quickly if the team sucks early certainly.    But there's very little chance he opens as No. 1.   He CAN take No. 1 given he's more talented than Case or Colt though but if he does that we'll all see it and know it's because he's clearly better.   This you can save and bring back later.   If he is outplayed by Case or Colt he won't be our starter Week 1.   

How about "local kid", in "local town", with "local ties".

 

Dan would not like him if he was mediocre (White, Black or Stripped)

1 hour ago, Dan T. said:

I finally figured out which NFL player Dwayne Haskins reminds me of.

 

Ben Roethlisberger.

You freaking get it. 

 

Good job for seeing size/skill sets and not the paint job.

[Morrison J]

Jay is a really bad liar lol

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

Whether Gruden loves him or not is irrelevant now. His job is to develop him. Coaches don't always make the best talent evaluators.

[Art]

Just now, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Listen no need to be rude or turn this into a personnel attack we are on the same team my friend. I wish Haskins all the best and as a Redskins fan i hope he kills it next season and destroys the Giants. I'm going to ask you a simple question though that you can either respond yes or no to .... K Ready ? Who will be the better QB next season and who will have the better Career playing QB , Haskins or Murray ?

 

Fair enough.   Just keep it in mind if you are going to quote me, actually do it.   Don't pull one line out of context and demand I answer your misunderstanding.   Either grasp it, or don't reply as it annoys to be misquoted and then asked to respond to that instead of what was actually said.   But, I join you in celebrating our hope for Haskins in spite of any reasonable concerns we may share or have.   As I already answered, I think Haskins will have a better career because he has the body size to survive the NFL and seems to have the mental ability to not abjectly suck.   Murray will probably have a better year next year in that he'll start Day 1 and be breathtaking some.   And hurt the rest.

 

 

Just now, dc1 said:

How about "local kid", in "local town", with "local ties".

 

Dan would not like him if he was mediocre (White, Black or Stripped)

 

Dan's loved white and hispanic heritage players as well, sure.   Sanchez was his dream man as an example, and he had none of the added benefits Haskins has, though by all measures was considered a superior NFL prospect leaving college.   But, the reality is DC is nicknamed Chocolate City (and, yeah, I know diversity is inbound on this).   If the team can have a great black QB, especially one who has local ties, it creates a heroic presence (IF HE CAN PLAY) that is a perfect fit for the area.    It's a dream scenario for a team with dwindling fan interest and anger against.   If he can play.   Obviously, even a skinny white boy who could play would be fine for the fans, certainly, but Haskins is legend in the making IF HE CAN PLAY given where we are as an organization.   A bit like RGIII.

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Whether Gruden loves him or not is irrelevant now. His job is to develop him. Coaches don't always make the best talent evaluators.

 

Joe Gibbs loved Jason Campbell.   Gregg Williams LOVED Adam Archuleta.

 

Coaches are kinda dumb :).

[ThomasRoane]

2 hours ago, ashlynskins said:

 

and the Fins are tanking and in 2020 will nab their future QB...

 

That is 100% the right move.  The Redskins could have added to the defense and it's safe to say that with Colt and Case that season would have gone down the tubes quickly.  I'm tired of our owner always looking for the quick fix out of desperation.  That has never paid off for the franchise yet and I don't see how people can actually convince themselves that THIS TIME it's different...

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

That is 100% the right move.  The Redskins could have added to the defense and it's safe to say that with Colt and Case that season would have gone down the tubes quickly.  I'm tired of our owner always looking for the quick fix out of desperation.  That has never paid off for the franchise yet and I don't see how people can actually convince themselves that THIS TIME it's different...

I don't think drafting Haskins is a quick fix. Quick fix would have been trying to trade for someone like Flacco.

[Burgundy Yoda]

Many Giants fans think the Redskins played them by putting out intentional leaks about our interest in Daniel Jones, causing them to pick him at 6 and causing Haskins to slide to us. Which is who we wanted all along.

 

That's way smarter than we actually are, so I think it's funny they think that 

[TradeTheBeal!]

3 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

That is 100% the right move.  The Redskins could have added to the defense and it's safe to say that with Colt and Case that season would have gone down the tubes quickly.  I'm tired of our owner always looking for the quick fix out of desperation.  That has never paid off for the franchise yet and I don't see how people can actually convince themselves that THIS TIME it's different...

 

The idea that your “Desparate Danny” schtick would be any different in 2020 than it is now is highly amusing.

[PartyPosse]

3 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

That is 100% the right move.  The Redskins could have added to the defense and it's safe to say that with Colt and Case that season would have gone down the tubes quickly.  I'm tired of our owner always looking for the quick fix out of desperation.  That has never paid off for the franchise yet and I don't see how people can actually convince themselves that THIS TIME it's different...

I don’t see the difference in grabbing a guy like Haskins versus tanking and getting unknowns like Tua or Herbert. It’s all a crapshoot at the QB position and this is coming from someone who didn’t love (or hate) the Haskins pick.

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Now its up to the organization to coach him up and develop him. Contrary to popular belief, it takes a village to raise a QB and for most QBs their success is dependent on the support they get from the franchise. 

 

This is the only thing that worries me about the pick. I dont know if Gruden will be around forever, and I dont like the idea of him having a second offense in his second year and get all Jason Candled in the head. There is no reason to think that would happen other than *Redskins* but none the less......*Redskins*

 

Other than that. Hes exactly what we have been asking for at the position for a while. Something about him is throwing people off so bad they dont know what the hell to think though. Dude is exactly what everyone loved about Cousins coming out of school other than being a 4 year starter. And even with that, he has a better tool set than Cousins did coming out. Even more, hes better than RG3 was at pretty much everything other than talking to people and running it coming out too AND ran a pro style offense (correct?). Nothing to dislike about the player other than his slow 40 time and his lack of reps.

[Larry]

But everybody knows that the secret to NFL success is to intentionally tank the season, for a better draft pick, before the season even starts.  

[ThomasRoane]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

First off, the whole "he struggles when under pressure up the middle" is such a useless fact. Guess what...EVERY QB in the history of professional football has struggled when under pressure directly up the middle.

 

 

But surely you have seen many good QB's move laterally and evade the on coming rusher right?  I haven't seen many clips where this kid had to quickly move laterally.  And the way the Redskin's O-line gives up middle pressures it's a skill he better develop quickly; if he can.  I personally think it's more instinctive than something you can drill.