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Welcome to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

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27 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Was PFF the group that said he has such a small sample size that its hard to make a determination one way or the other? And if he didnt face pressure alot anyway, then wouldn't the sample size be even smaller? 

 

Math is dumb 

 

 

What you can see on the film is awkward, out of sync, movement that causes passes to fly. The frequency of the pressure was limited, but games like PSU showed immense issues with any pressure.... that game also showed what many skeptics point to — even in an abysmal game, he can dump the ball off & OSU still gets road wins v elite teams. 

 

Like everyone here, I hope he’s the best QB in the nfl for the next 15 years, I just wish we upgraded C & LG for him. 

 

Haskins completion % was boosted by some shorter passes, but he made some top tier throws that his guys dropped .... even when they scored 185 v Michigan, he had 4 drops of brilliantly placed footballs. His arm talent is just filthy. 

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13 hours ago, IrepDC said:

Haskins and Harmon apparently knew each other back to 7 on 7 in high school. They did pre combine work together, and they also trained in California together pre draft. Haskins got 2 WRs he's already worked with..

Holy crap, how did I not know this? That makes Harmon dropping to us so late even better than I had I thought!!!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, volsmet said:

 

First of all, you aren’t qualified to comment on anyone’s credibility. Secondly, my points are backed up by pff’s numbers. 3rdly, being a fan doesn’t give you more access to Haskins film. Finally, Urban worked for my uncle & is dear friends with him. 

 

🤫

 

 

1) Who peed in your wheaties?  Oh I see you're a Vols fan, I guess the answer would be every single Vols team since the mid 90s.  Thats alotta pee..not alot of wheaties... explains a lot.  

 

2) Unless your father is a coach, educates you, and remains in contact with Urban, your "relationship" to Urban doesnt make you any more qualified than anyone.   And btw, Im pretty sure Urban would disagree with your assesment or use of the word atrocious.  In fact what Urban has said is closer to what I said, i.e.it a weakness in his game, but is not unusual for young QBs, is something he got better at toward the end, and can be overcome with experience (paraphrasing Urban from his Fox sports comments).

 

Also Im pretty sure youre not really all that qualified.  People who are more qualified rarely feel the need to point that out, when discussing with a less qualified person.  Usually they just kinda ignore that person, while sitting back with the kind of half-smirk I get on my face when a patient tries to disagree with me based on some WebMD knowledge.

 

3)  I am pretty qualified to advise you on communication skills.  Im telling you; use of extreme language such as atrocious almost always is ineffective, and more times than not distracts from and undermines your point, and ends up being the only thing people remember.  Just as this thread proves.  Haskins is bad under pressure, but extremely unbelievably bad (i.e atrocious)?  Come on.

 

You yourself mused that you couldnt understand why your rational arguments were being rejected due to apparently emotional reasons.  Well here might be your answer.  Use more measured words if you want more measured responses.  I, and others, latched on to to your use of the word atrocious, and all responses have centered around that, and not the arguments you made.   You have yet to counter our objections with arguments to defend your use of the word, instead relying on ad hominem attacks that only further undermined your credibility and overshadowed your argument.

 

I will admit I liked your later posts, you seemed more balanced and I found myself agreeing.  I dont think thats a coincidence.

 

 

Edited by Koala
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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Koala said:

1) Who peed in your wheaties?  Oh I see your a Vols fan, I guess the answer would be every single Vols team since the mid 90s.  Thats a lot pee..not alot of wheaties.. that explains a lot.  

 

 

Next time I talk with one of the best QB coaches of the last 30 years, I’ll pass along your insights. Don’t worry, I’ll not forget to mention that you’re a big fan. 

 

giphy.gif

Edited by volsmet

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15 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

This thread is atrocious!!...

No exaggeration or hyperbole... this is easily the most atrocious thread in the history of forever.

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5 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Also, one time I fist bumped Steve Spurrier and I say Haskins rules.

 

Steve disagrees.

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1 minute ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Yeah well, he fistbumps like a girl so what does he know?

 

You’d have to ask @Skinsinparadise he’s the one with the Spurrier quotes. 

 

 

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Wait so you speak to Urban Myer regularly and he thinks Haskins has a serious flaw in his game? 

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3 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Wait so you speak to Urban Myer regularly and he thinks Haskins has a serious flaw in his game? 

Urban is now a commentator for Fox sports, he's already mentioned that Haskins has some work to do on that aspect of his game.  According to Urban, its why he should sit for a year in the NFL before coming in.  But he did mention that flaw is fixable, totally normal in young QBs, and that Haskins has the intelligence and work ethic to make sure its fixed.   

I doubt Urban would say much more than that.  Haskins is the best QB he's ever had, according to himself, and he's quite positive that with good coaching and patience, he will be a star in the NFL.  Actually, he specified that he needs good coaching and a patient fanbase -- as if he was calling out Redskins fans, lol...Of course he said similar things about Tebow, so take it with a grain of salt....

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Koala said:

If Jays plan was to leave the future of this franchise in the hands of Case Keenum and Colt Mccoy, then Jay should be banned from even entering another draft discussion.

 

If he was partial to a plan that included trading for a QB and using the draft picks on other areas of pressing need, then Id say he was pretty wise, except i  the case that Haskins or Lock would fall to us at 15.  In that case, if he really thinks that we should still have reached for a pass rusher at 15, then he needs to be banned from future draft discussions. 

 

We lucked out, it happens that the BPA also filled our biggest need.  I dont see how Jay could really have a problem with that, unless he rreally thinks Haskjns is trash.  I havent heard anyone, not a sinfle so called expert, that doesnt think we made the right move at 15.  

 

 

All i can do is guess based on what beat reporters have said they heard what Jay was thinking.  And multiple beat reporters said from what they heard Jay wasn't enamored with any of the QBs in the draft sans Murray and Haskins wasn't his next favorite in that group.   He wanted a pass rusher in particular badly at 15.  As for we should question Jay for having that mindset.  I get the point.    But I am gathering that the mindset wasn't that he was enamored by Keenum and Colt but that he wasn't enamored with any of these guys in the draft being the future.

 

As for the media talking heads-mock drafter types embracing the pick at 15.  That's true.  It's even true of those among them who have questions and didn't love Haskins from the context of they didn't have to give anything up and he landed in the mid first round.  Heck I am not enamored with Haskins myself.  But at 15 what the heck see what you got and see what happens and if he's great then you got a find and if he's a bust go fishing again.  So i am game. 

 

And like I said the same people who said that Jay wasn't enamored with Haskins -- also say that he's excited to try to make it work anyway because he's intrigued by his tools.   I believe that.  And like I said that's all that matters to me.  If Jay wasn't on board now then I'd be bothered.  But if he is on board now then that's all that matters IMO with the exception of the owner impinging on the process at some point in an unhealthy way aka the last first round QB who was here. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Koala said:

If Jays plan was to leave the future of this franchise in the hands of Case Keenum and Colt Mccoy, then Jay should be banned from even entering another draft discussion.

 

If he was partial to a plan that included trading for a QB and using the draft picks on other areas of pressing need, then Id say he was pretty wise, except i  the case that Haskins or Lock would fall to us at 15.  In that case, if he really thinks that we should still have reached for a pass rusher at 15, then he needs to be banned from future draft discussions. 

 

We lucked out, it happens that the BPA also filled our biggest need.  I dont see how Jay could really have a problem with that, unless he rreally thinks Haskjns is trash.  I havent heard anyone, not a sinfle so called expert, that doesnt think we made the right move at 15.  

 

But absent a trade, surely Jay didnt really think it was a good idea to just roll out Case and Colt for the next few years.  Surely.

And he also took Denver to the bottom of division last year while ruining what was left John Elways reputation as a manager.  Whats your point?

 

You make 2 major assumptions that I believe are inaccurate. 

 

1. You assume his plan was to go with Case/Colt for "the next few years". I have seen nothing to indicate this to be true. The options being discussed that I know of were either go QB this year, or load up on Dline (especially pass rush) and Oline - along with WR and a few depth picks due to such a deep draft at those previous positions then if you can't trade for Rosen, go with Case/Colt for this year - 2019 only, then look for a QB in next years draft. You could also draft a guy later like a Stidam and see if he can be developed. But nowhere have I seen anyone suggest even for minute that Case/Colt are the long term solution. 

 

2. The assumption Jay wanted the team to "reach" for a pass rusher - this makes no sense since there were a great deal of great pass rushers, and other high level talent left at 15. For example Brian Burns went 16. If you say that because it's believed he wanted Sweat at 15, that's revisionist thinking as virtually every pre-draft mock had Sweat top 10 until the Texans medical staff released false information about his heart. It was being reported the day of the draft that the Texans were wrong (they measured the heart lining from the incorrect reference, making it appear thinner). So there was every reason to believe Sweat would rise back up on teams boards. But even 15 to 26, is not that huge a reach. Sweat at 15 would have been a legitimate pick. I believe we stole him at 26.  And I am not alone in that position. 

 

To him wanting an elite pass rusher at 15 instead of a QB - there is nothing flawed with that line of thinking at all. In fact it shows maturity of an Offensive minded Head Coach actually being the Head Coach thinking about what's best for the entire team. Even an average defense the last 4 to 5 yrs without previous QB would have made a huge difference to the outcomes of those seasons. It also shows forward thinking, not a panic mode have to win right now pick - get a QB no matter the cost. That smacks more of a Bruce Allen/Dan Snyder line of thinking. But that is for a different thread. 

 

Haskins may work out. I certainly hope he does. But it's a big gamble. Jay was certainly not the only person who thought that none of the QBs in this draft were 1st rd talent. Building the Dline and and the Oline this draft, while adding a few other parts of support and looking QB next year when there is a much higher level of talent available makes eminent sense. I can see the logic in both approaches. But if one stands out as flawed more than the other, it's taking a QB this year when you know none of them are really 1st round talent outside maybe Murray (and there is not universal agreement there either). You are reaching, and a lot. Look at where these guys were ranked mid-season vs. where they ended up. It happens every year, this year is no different. I am just thankful they didn't trade up to get him. 

 

In the end they took Haskins. He has great arm ability and is a smart QB but struggles with footwork and especially when under pressure and really struggles outside the lines. But most of that can likely be coached. We will see how they bring him a long. One year on the bench would not be the worst thing for him. But I doubt Dan/Bruce let that happen. Shiny new toy has to be on the field. 

Edited by goskins10
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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

2019 only, then look for a QB in next years draft. You could also draft a guy later like a Stidam and see if he can be developed. But nowhere have I seen anyone suggest even for  minute that Case/Colt are he long term solution. 

 

 

Agree.  It was beaten to death by plenty (according the mock drafter types) that it wouldn't be crazy at all to sit out this draft at QB and tap into the richer (in theory at least) 2020 class.  

 

12 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

2. The assumption Jay wanted the team to "reach" for a pass rusher - this makes no sense since there were a great deal of great pass rushers, and other high level talent left at 15. For example Brian Burns went 16. 

 

Agree on this too.  This was a special draft (or at least in theory) for pass rusher.  Now if they took a Wr i could see that being considered a reach at 15.

 

12 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 I am just thankful they didn't trade up to get him. 

 

 

Me, too.  Like you I was in the camp of I'd wait for next year to take a QB.  But I doubted that was in play and I was petrified to trade up for any QB.  So Haskins at 15 I could run with in spite of my concerns.  I'd hate it if they traded up.  Between that and my greatest fear which is them taking Daniel Jones -- I end up somewhat relieved about how it went down.  But like you I totally get the logic as for having reservations about this QB class.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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12 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

What you can see on the film is awkward, out of sync, movement that causes passes to fly. The frequency of the pressure was limited, but games like PSU showed immense issues with any pressure.... that game also showed what many skeptics point to — even in an abysmal game, he can dump the ball off & OSU still gets road wins v elite teams. 

 

Like everyone here, I hope he’s the best QB in the nfl for the next 15 years, I just wish we upgraded C & LG for him. 

 

Haskins completion % was boosted by some shorter passes, but he made some top tier throws that his guys dropped .... even when they scored 185 v Michigan, he had 4 drops of brilliantly placed footballs. His arm talent is just filthy. 

 

I mean, this is pretty much what most scouts said about him. I don’t think you’re out on a limb here, not sure why anyone would be upset about this take.

 

The cool thing about this flaw? It can be fixed. It’s absolutely something you can work on. And he is supposedly a worker, so I think he will improve. The big question is, how fast.

 

and we did upgrade LG. Not that it was hard to do, but I do like the looks of Wes Martin, especially in pass pro.

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14 hours ago, DieHardSkins88 said:

 Bro Keemun literally took the Vikings to the NFC Championship game two seasons ago.

Cool. Now show me what he did when he didn’t have two elite WRs.

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People seem to forget  Roethlisberger's rook campaign, he learned behind a tough running game and defense. Everyone looks at the W/L numbers and results, not as many actually watch/remember the games themselves. He was very rook-esque, but the coaches allowed for that, gave him protection and fed him the playbook incrementally. IMO this is the best example that comes to mind for how Haskins needs to be used this season. Martin was a solid addition to the line but people seem very dismissive of Pierschbacher who started 57 games for the Tide. I'll accept that critique over some here. We need some blocking TE upgrades and the RBs will have to shoulder some serious ooooomph duties this year but an awful lot of the pieces are in place for this to be a transformative year for the franchise. Pack up his bowling ball and send TheDan to Aruba until March and see  what happens. 

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13 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

...I just wish we upgraded C & LG for him...

 

Brick by brick my citizens.  Hail

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Gif overload is making all these threads pretty obnoxious to read. 

 

WE apologize dearest overlord, please feel free to skip over these threads that are LIKE annoying to you. 

 

Please enjoy this play list at no charge as one time courtesy for your inconvenience. 

 

https://rewind943.com/daynnah-carmona/the-top-10-most-annoying-songs-that-will-definitely-get-stuck-in-your-head/

 

14 hours ago, Califan007 said:

This thread is atrocious!!...

 

 

 

 

Image result for atrocious thread gif

Edited by SWFLSkins
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16 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

He was infrequently under pressure at Ohio state. The other comments are from others, the one I made is backed up, clearly, by pff. I don’t see how it’s possible to simply dismiss their analytics. Numbers are unbiased.

 

 

HOLLA,, numbers serve those who choose to use them, when they choose to. 

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For all the talk of Roethlisberger, didn’t he sit on the bench his rookie season behind the Steelers’ version of Case Keemun, at least initially? I don’t think it was their plan to play him, was it?

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