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FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

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MartinC

MartinC

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:


I agree. I have never said Allen was brought into start. Or never intended to. I’ve said Allen was brought in because Turner likes him, likes his background in the system etc. I don’t think he’s been brought in to start.

 

My view is that Allen wins the competition and starts. 


My view is there is not really going to be a competition, at least to start. There are just not enough reps to go around in what is likely a shortened offseason (if there is one!) to prepare a young starter new to the system AND split reps in a competition.

 

IMO Haskins will get the starters reps and work with the first group. And unless he implodes will he opening day starter. What happens from there depends on how he plays.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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Posted
53 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Fair points, and wholly agree with work ethic and grinders are the ones that succeed. The only caveat I'll add, and I recall Haskins say something to this effect, is many come in and don't know "how" to work.

 

 

I agree it's likely part of the narrative but if what some of these guys say is true, it's not the whole drill. 

 

Just for me personally the four red flag narratives that bothered me the most:  A.  The Ohio State reporter who said he was writing a story about the team and they allowed him access to the college Qb room and he sat through a meeting where he witnessed Burrow and another QB in the room goofing to Haskins about how little Haskins has bothered to study and learn their playbook.    

 

B.  Paulsen running into him in training camp and said to him (paraphrasing) hey I am sure when you go home during the season you love to sit back and just watch football and Haskins responded, nah, he doesn't love football like that.   C.  The leaks from people in the front office who told a couple of beat guys "that dude doesn't work very hard".  And Russell flat out saying he heard Haskins was one of the last to arrive and first to leave.

 

But yeah I am all good with the new narrative about Haskins and the improvement started towards the end of last season.  And I do buy that he's now grinding. And I agree it's a good sign. 

53 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I'll use a recent baseball reference, Lucas Giolito. When he was with the Nats he was told to shadow Scherzer (and his near-psychotic work ethic) to learn how to prepare and work. He didn't get it and was traded to Eaton. He was terrible for 2 more years, until he changed his trainer, before changed his approach, and started to prepare better.

 

 

Agree it can happen like this.  The point from Doc is the fact that it was an issue to begin with creates at least some pause  The best analogy that hits me is its like having a spouse who cheated but now they have been super loyal and looked like they turned the corner perhaps -- you'd still want that to play out some more before saying hey the cheating never happened and they are 100% trustworthy. 

 

54 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

You can learn work ethic. People grow up and change. Sometimes it takes the right person--Rivera seems to have gotten through to the kid. We'll see if it translates onto the field.

 

I agree you can learn it.   Most people I know from my work experience, some of whom I've worked with on an off for 20 years are very similar to how they started for better or worse as for work ethic.  But there are certainly exceptions to this, too.  

 

I notice some (not you) as to Haskins can get sensitive about this topic but I think they take it the wrong way.  I don't think anyone accuses of Haskins of being lazy or a bad dude. He's a good guy, smart and not lazy according to just about everyone.  But there is a difference between having a killer work ethic and not.  In real terms, Haskins probably outworks 90% of the population, etc even during his supposed downturn last year.  

 

Cooley likes to say that in his experience maybe 30% of his teammates loved football and the rest didn't.  If so, it's not a character flaw if Haskins is among that 70% if that's the case.  But if guys like Shanny and Arians are correct, the QB position is one where you got to grind to be great (and usually these dudes love it) because you got so much more on your plate than the average position.  And it's a position where you have to continually sharpen your skills to stay good and prepare for each game plan.  

 

I do think Haskins can turn the corner.  And I'd even bet on it.  But I somewhat agree with Doc's point in that I don't really excuse players for not grinding where I blame it on context and other people for it.   Doc I thought said it well, Haskins did get a bad hand/circumstance but he should have risen above it versus using it as an excuse.  And he knows people like Rivera from his years being in the game and those type of guys grind and grind even harder if circumstances aren't favorable. 

 

And I agree I think Rivera is the perfect type of coach to push him. 

 

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evmiii

evmiii

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Posted

So a QB (Burrow) that he beat out and eventually transferred (worked out ok for him) and an un-named QB in the room are critical of his work habits, but the coaching staff still chose him to start. He only went on to throw 50 TDs against 8 int that year.  He might not be 100% all about football, but he has shown he is in enough.  Can he be more mature, work a little harder, do a little more - sure; but the young man has all the skills to be successful.  

 

Kyle Allen will not beat out DH.  He'll push him to be better and be very helpful in the QB room and be a great backup.

 

i just don't understand all the hate. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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Posted
1 hour ago, evmiii said:

So a QB (Burrow) that he beat out and eventually transferred (worked out ok for him) and an un-named QB in the room are critical of his work habits, but the coaching staff still chose him to start. He only went on to throw 50 TDs against 8 int that year.  He might not be 100% all about football, but he has shown he is in enough.  Can he be more mature, work a little harder, do a little more - sure; but the young man has all the skills to be successful.  

 

Kyle Allen will not beat out DH.  He'll push him to be better and be very helpful in the QB room and be a great backup.

 

i just don't understand all the hate. 

 

All our QBs we've had have been digested pro and con from fans and people who cover the team.  Heck ditto veterans we acquired like Alex Smith.  I recall those threads well.  If the criticism/concern = hate, then people have hated every QB that we've had here and most of our players, ditto.  

 

Haskins has some good attributes and he has some things that some pause on.  I don't think Keim or Walker or the slew of people are hating when they've voiced the pros and cons.    Same story about most young QBs around the NFL.  Unless they just kill it from the get go, see RG3, Marino, etc -- then you got a narrative about whether he is the guy or isn't the guy.  Pro or con -- which prevails?  And as Redskins fans, we are all rooting for pro side to prevail about every player.  

 

As for Kyle Allen not beating out DH.  I don't think he will either.  But I can't see it definitely like I know the outcome.  I hope Haskins does.  Will see.   Fans and reporters have posted plenty of pros and cons about Allen, too.  They don't hate him.  It's just when you aren't sure if you have the right QB, yet -- you ponder about everything, good and bad until they hopefully emerge as a franchise QB. 

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Est.1974

Est.1974

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, MartinC said:


There are just not enough reps to go around in what is likely a shortened offseason (if there is one!) to prepare a young starter new to the system AND split reps in a competition.


Doesn’t that actually work in Allen’s favour? Will be an interesting battle nonetheless.

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 


yeah that’s would be my biggest concern too.

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MartinC

MartinC

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1 minute ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:


Doesn’t that actually work in Allen’s favour? Will be an interesting battle nonetheless.


His familiarity with the scheme is a big part of why he was brought in. And obviously it does give him an advantage.

 

But again it’s Haskins job to lose. He’s going to be given every opportunity to succeed and Allen’s knowledge of the system means he does not need the reps another vet QB brought in as backup would need to be ready to step in if there is an injury or Haskins just does not play well.

 

By accounts of people like John Kiem Haskins is doing everything expected of him up this point in the offseason. Let’s see what happens if/when we actually hit the fields for camp and games.

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KDawg

KDawg

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Posted

We'll see. To me it seems like the California governor wants to approach this cautiously. 

 

I think it's more than possible that we have a season. I think it's also possible that we don't. No one knows. 

 

It's really an odd situation. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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49 minutes ago, KDawg said:

We'll see. To me it seems like the California governor wants to approach this cautiously. 

 

I think it's more than possible that we have a season. I think it's also possible that we don't. No one knows. 

 

It's really an odd situation. 

 

If I had to guess it now, a season happens but without fans for at least part of it.  And it would including testing every player as prerequisite. 

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kingdaddy

kingdaddy

Posted
Posted

when you watch Pat Mahomes drop back he often times goes back like 12 steps or more once he feels the pressure and then rolls out before slinging it wherever he wants and often times his guys are wide open. It's all based on his arm strength and pocket awareness. I believe Dwayne has this kind of arm strength. It's like a video game/Madden QB, just keep dropping back to beat the pass rush then sling the crap out of it. It's not fundamentally sound in any way, it's all physical gifts. Many QB's could never get away with it but the big arm guys can. Andy Reid has allowed Mahomes to do that stuff, just go out and play street ball if you need to. I'm not advocating it but it's part of the reason Mahomes is so special, his arm strength and ability to buy time. Coached up correctly, I could see Dwayne doing some of this.

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bakedtater1

bakedtater1

Posted
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13 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:


Bud that’s not Ron Jeremy, lol, that’s one tough as nails SOB who went in an Got impossible and costly task done. You gotta see the series, it’s really good. On HBO.

Dude that guy looks just like Ron lol... thanks for pointing that out to me though man I appreciate it, I just might, HBO is free right now lol

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted

I just listened to that Cooley podcast that's been mentioned here, not a ton of sunshine from him about the Qb situation especially relating to Kyle Allen.  Though granted its just one dude's opinion. 

 

Among Cooley's quotes:  "Kyle Allen is not a talented guy." "He had skewed numbers thanks to McCaffrey."  He is a backup in this league"  

 

" I am not convinced on  Dwayne Haskins at this point"... I certainly didn't see him as a first rounder and i am not sure is going to be a first round QB...or a top half of the league QB."  

 

He thinks Dwayne's floor is higher than when he thought before the draft.   He thinks he's likely a starter albeit he might not be according to him a top of the half type in this league and is a better player than Kyle and will win the job. 

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TheShredder

TheShredder

Posted
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34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

" I am not convinced on  Dwayne Haskins at this point"... I certainly didn't see him as a first rounder and i am not sure is going to be a first round QB...or a top half of the league QB."  

Haskins is  an immature kid heading for the floor.  Hes not heading towards his ceiling.  Who cares about his feelings!  Fact is that if his ceiling isn't MVP caliber then the Skins should have signed Cam Newton to a 1 year deal.  If he cant beat out Cam then hes trending towards the floor anyways...and you got a steal;  the best insurance against Haskins millennial work ethic.  they should stop the baby steps approach with QB position straightaway. 

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clskinsfan

clskinsfan

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On 4/4/2020 at 4:46 PM, MartinC said:

This adds context from the NFLs chief medical advisor. Availability of easy to administer and quick testing seems to be key. The time table that for that being widely available probably drives everything else.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001108243/article/nfl-chief-medical-officer-league-needs-broad-testing-to-reopen

Thing is you would have to to test every single player and fan before every game. I think they could maybe play to empty stadiums if they wanted too. They can test the players constantly and keep the virus out of the locker room. But you are never going to keep it out of a full stadium.

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TheShredder

TheShredder

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Thing is you would have to to test every single player and fan before every game. I think they could maybe play to empty stadiums if they wanted too. They can test the players constantly and keep the virus out of the locker room. But you are never going to keep it out of a full stadium.

Thats not the topic in this thread, but when your fan base is depleted as its been...the Skins are already adjusted to playing to an empty stadium.  Keep coddling Haskins and that isn't going to change. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, TheShredder said:

Thats not the topic in this thread, but when your fan base is depleted as its been...the Skins are already adjusted to playing to an empty stadium.  

 

Good point, no team will be more adjusted for the empty stadium drill if that's what goes down this season. 😀

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