FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[skinny21]

I was optimistic about Haskins chances heading into the offseason.  
 

We added a head coach that could help ground him and change the culture for the better, an OC that would be willing to tailor the offense to Haskins, a we have a young group of pass catchers and backs that should improve going into next year.  Also figured we’d add some help via oline, TE and receiver to make Haskins’ job easier.  He should be more comfortable this go around, understand better what it takes to succeed in the league.  On top of all of that, Haskins has all of the tools himself to succeed.  
 

Now however, with a shortened offseason, a qb that knows the system already, has the coach’s trust and has shown a degree of starting capability... I’m not sure I like Haskins’ chances of earning the starting role.  Given what we know of Haskins, the situation could go downhill in a hurry.
 

Barring injury, I’m tempted to say the odds are pretty close to even that he 1) rides the bench this year and becomes our starter in 2021 or 2) never starts another game for us.  
 

I’m pulling for him to grab the reins and not let go though.  

[@DCGoldPants]

Has anybody checked in with Malcolm Kelly for his Haskins take? Shar Pourdanish? Fred Davis? 

[Riggo#44]

51 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

DHall, another ex-Skin who is voting out Haskins

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/deangelo-hall-unsure-dwayne-haskins-can-be-redskins-starting-qb

 

 

 

I don't have time--or the attention span--to listen to the whole 45 min podcast--but the quotes are really based on assumptions, it seems:

Quote

"I don’t think Dwayne Haskins is going to respond," Hall said. "Ron Rivera is an old school mentality type of coach. He wants competition. These young guys they want things given to them."

Well, that's a big, sweeping general statement.

Quote

"With Kyle Allen breathing down your throat you are not going to be able to make many mistakes. I love the kid but I don’t know how [Haskins] wins the starting job. I really don’t, with Ron Rivera knowing Kyle Allen. They traded a fifth-round pick for him."

So? Rivera has said he expects Haskins to start in Training Camp. A fifth round pick isn't like trading a 2nd or a 3rd. 

 

I understand the questions about his footwork, his work ethic, etc. etc. etc. But this isn't analysis.

On a side note--anyone notice how quickly certain people like Chris Russell goes off on anyone even whispering Haskins isn't any good? But completely ignores any thing saying he wasn't as bad as he looked at times (i.e. the PFF article)? Or is that just me?

[Est.1974]

Allen will beat out Haskins. It will be close, but he will in my opinion. 
 

Once Allen became available, and it appears Tua was off the board, in he’s come. 
 

Allen over Haskins for me.

[Riggo#44]

2 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Allen will beat out Haskins. It will be close, but he will in my opinion. 

 

I am in the "may the best man win" camp--not just for now but for 4-5 years from now. Personally, I believe that will be Haskins, but we'll see. And, if it's close, I think Haskins gets the benefit of the doubt. Allen will have to beat DH cleanly.

[Est.1974]

Just now, Riggo#44 said:

 

I am in the "may the best man win" camp--not just for now but for 4-5 years from now. Personally, I believe that will be Haskins, but we'll see. And, if it's close, I think Haskins gets the benefit of the doubt. Allen will have to beat DH cleanly.

id wager it’s neither Allen nor Haskins in 4-5 years.

 

short term view, Allen wins. That’s why we traded for him.

[Riggo#44]

6 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

id wager it’s neither Allen nor Haskins in 4-5 years.

 

short term view, Allen wins. That’s why we traded for him.

 

I'll disagree--they traded for him to be a backup and help Haskins in the system. I don't think Allen is a starter. While Haskins hasn't proven one way or the other--Allen proved he is NOT the guy. Good back up, not a starter.

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I'll disagree--they traded for him to be a backup and help Haskins in the system. I don't think Allen is a starter. While Haskins hasn't proven one way or the other--Allen proved he is NOT the guy. Good back up, not a starter.

yeah I’m fine to disagree. I have no preference either way to be honest.

 

Gut feeling. Turner likes Allen a lot.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

So Cooley doesn't think much of Allen's talent.  The irony of that was he didn't think much of Haskins either before the draft.  

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

So Cooley doesn't think much of Allen's talent.  The irony of that was he didn't think much of Haskins either before the draft.  

 

 

 

Cooley could be correct, but more by default than knowledge. That’s a fairly uneducated statement on his behalf.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Cooley could be correct, but more by default than knowledge. That’s a fairly uneducated statement on his behalf.

 

Personally, I am hoping Haskins wins the job because it would obviously show that he's progressing.    It seems intuitive that Kyle Allen can give Dwayne a run for his money because he knows the system.  As for Cooley, I like most of his takes.  I just find it ironic that he's down on Kyle because he likewise was down on Haskins before the draft, too. 

[Darth Tater]

5 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I am in the "may the best man win" camp--not just for now but for 4-5 years from now. Personally, I believe that will be Haskins, but we'll see. And, if it's close, I think Haskins gets the benefit of the doubt. Allen will have to beat DH cleanly.

I am pretty much the same but it would be a real kick in the nether region if that ain't DH.  If so,  we wasted a 2 second last year and one this year...that would be a parting "gift" from Bruthe.

 

BTW, 2 seconds assumes that we would have picked Sweat with the pick (possibly even traded back) that went for Haskins and would not have made that trade

[Daniel.redskins]

I just want the best player to start.  Haskins is the better athlete, no question about it.  But Allen knows the playbook, and he's a locker room guy.  From what I hear players like him.  I think both will have a great preseason.  Haskins will start, but if he struggles fans will be chanting for Allen.  This feels a lot like RG3 and Cousins all over again.  

[Probos]

9 hours ago, volsmet said:

Slight amendment, Rivera & Turner chose to make this work. If Snyder is truly insisting on DH, it means Rivera & Turner chose him ... not all that long after playing against him. They must have seen something they liked if they’re here. 

 

If Snyder insisted on DH,...Rivera & Turner chose him??  Um,...yeah that makes no sense and you're missing my point.

 

So, anyway...again -- I hope and DH works out (I do think he's talented) since the choices the current staff are limited.  Mostly due to Dan and Bruce's incompetence proceeding his their arrival.  

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, skinny21 said:

 

Now however, with a shortened offseason, a qb that knows the system already, has the coach’s trust and has shown a degree of starting capability... I’m not sure I like Haskins’ chances of earning the starting role.  Given what we know of Haskins, the situation could go downhill in a hurry.
 

Barring injury, I’m tempted to say the odds are pretty close to even that he 1) rides the bench this year and becomes our starter in 2021 or 2) never starts another game for us.  

I’m pulling for him to grab the reins and not let go though.  

 

I was listening to Doc some this week, I typically don't.  Wow, he's tough on Haskins.  The funny thing is he suggests he's said the same to Haskins directly which is hard for me to believe.  In short, he thinks Haskins was soft last year for as he put it needing hugs from his coaches.  And he said he should have just prepared and showed that he was hungry but he didn't.   Then he goes, Kyle Allen, had to grind to win that job, when it was his time to play he was ready.  That's a gamer.  He goes it's on Haskins that he's tagged as a dude that wasn't hungry and didn't prepare hard.  That's 100% on him and no one else. 

 

He has some faith that Haskins could be the guy, mega talented, etc but wants him to prepare hard.   He said he knows old school types like Rivera.  And he said Rivera is the type who couldn't comprehend how any player doesn't grind and that Rivera is the type who can care less about context for not grinding because context is irrelevant.   It's a mindset.  And if people aren't giving you the love, then grind even more.  Then he hit him on some of his social media responses-maturity.

 

So Doc is on the tough love mode with Haskins.  If he really said this to Haskins directly, I'd assume he pulled a punch or two. 

[Riggo#44]

Bucky Brooks, Deangelo Hall, Doc Walker etc. should update their narrative. From John Keim a month ago:

Quote

Everything I’ve heard about him this offseason has been good. From multiple people — Rivera said it publicly — but I’ve heard privately people talk about how much he’s been in the building, and how much he’s interacting with teammates. One defensive player told an acquaintance that he almost never talked to Dwayne during the season last year. He was indifferent to the rookie QB — not that he disliked him, just indifferent. Now, he’s gotten to know him well, and he really likes him. Now the players are starting to see the work that he’s putting in, and trust me, that makes a world of difference, because it’s a continuation of what they saw at the end of the year, and I think that’s important.

 

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, Probos said:

 

If Snyder insisted on DH,...Rivera & Turner chose him??  Um,...yeah that makes no sense and you're missing my point.

 

 

Yes, my sweet, Rivera chose this job knowing what Snyder insisted upon. 

[MartinC]

8 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

id wager it’s neither Allen nor Haskins in 4-5 years.

 

short term view, Allen wins. That’s why we traded for him.

 
If Rivera wanted a clear starter familiar with his system there is a guy called Cam Newton available. That he has said there was no interest in bringing Cam in and that the expectation is Haskins enters camp as the starter should tell you were things stand right now.

 

Now if Haskins does not perform then things can change - but it’s Haskins job to lose.

[Riggo#44]

7 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Now if Haskins does not perform then things can change - but it’s Haskins job to lose.

This whole idea of Allen being brought in because Rivera/Turner love him and want him to start is lazy "reporting"

That being said Allen is here to push Haskins, provide an adequate backup, and have someone else that knows the playbook. I like the move, but the idea he was brought here to push Haskins out defies common sense.

[Est.1974]

4 hours ago, MartinC said:

 
If Rivera wanted a clear starter familiar with his system there is a guy called Cam Newton available. That he has said there was no interest in bringing Cam in and that the expectation is Haskins enters camp as the starter should tell you were things stand right now.

 

Now if Haskins does not perform then things can change - but it’s Haskins job to lose.

I agree. I have never said Allen was brought into start. Or never intended to. I’ve said Allen was brought in because Turner likes him, likes his background in the system etc. I don’t think he’s been brought in to start.

 

My view is that Allen wins the competition and starts. 

[volsmet]

2 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I agree. I have never said Allen was brought into start. Or never intended to. I’ve said Allen was brought in because Turner likes him, likes his background in the system etc. I don’t think he’s been brought in to start.

 

My view is that Allen wins the competition and starts. 

You’ll never find an OC who doesn’t want a known commodity. 

[skinsmania123]

I want Haskins to be our starter because it will mean he understands the offense, can make the reads, etc.  And most of all, for me at least, it would mean we didn't waste a mid round 1st round pick.  Wouldn't it be great for us Skins fans to actually have a franchise QB?  

 

If I am Haskins I am thinking bring on the competition. If I can't beat out Allen well then I don't deserve to start.  Good athletes thrive off competition. 

 

 

 

   

[Skinsinparadise]

13 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

Bucky Brooks, Deangelo Hall, Doc Walker etc. should update their narrative. From John Keim a month ago:

 

 

The way I took Doc Walker's comments and I get his point from my own personal experience -- grinders typically just grind it doesn't come and go based on context so he has some pause about Haskins based on what happened last year.  And as I mentioned previously based on what an Ohio State reporter said on a Keim podcast -- Haskins being inconsistent on that front was a thing there, too.

 

Yeah we all know about Haskins more recent exploits and that's good.   Keim also on a podcast speculated that it could be happening in part because of Rivera.  And he said Rivera has a specific plan to push him.  I gather Scott Turner's public comments about wanting a QB who is the first to come, last to leave, the Doug comments about how Haskins needs to show he will be in the building until the kick him out, etc -- all part of the plan.    But in my view, the fact that you got to come up with a plan to motivate a player because you have questions about their self-motivational skills is a red flag.

 

Keim among others implied they see it as a red flag too (he said it nicer like he always does).  They want to see how it all unfolds and they aren't totally sold on him yet as the answer albeit they are jazzed about his talent and think he could be the answer.  

 

My best guess listening to all the narratives is they think Haskins has the talent to be successful but they wonder if he has the drive that some say you need at QB to excel.  And they are trying to use both negative and positive reinforcement to drive him.  That's cool.   

 

If he ends up the answer at QB, then we are set.  I personally think he's a talented dude and a nice guy.   It seems like the question about him is does he love football enough to drive himself to be great?  It sounds like Rivera and company are working on building up that drive and my gut is it will work.  But I totally get that there is at least some pause in the building about him and the pause is about his drive.  

 

Walker's point I took as Rivera has been around the greats and they were all self-motivating driven dudes and he believes that Rivera won't give Haskins any passes on that issue. 

 

[Riggo#44]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But in my view, the fact that you got to come up with a plan to motivate a player because you have questions about their self-motivational skills is a red flag.

 

Fair points, and wholly agree with work ethic and grinders are the ones that succeed. The only caveat I'll add, and I recall Haskins say something to this effect, is many come in and don't know "how" to work.

 

I'll use a recent baseball reference, Lucas Giolito. When he was with the Nats he was told to shadow Scherzer (and his near-psychotic work ethic) to learn how to prepare and work. He didn't get it and was traded to Eaton. He was terrible for 2 more years, until he changed his trainer, before changed his approach, and started to prepare better.

 

You can learn work ethic. People grow up and change. Sometimes it takes the right person--Rivera seems to have gotten through to the kid. We'll see if it translates onto the field.