FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 minute ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Oh man, I’m quickly converting to drafting a QB at #2. I think i want Tua. 

Are you just getting caught up in the smoke/hype of the #2 pick ... or ... what?

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, RWJ said:

Hope your being sarcastic, 74.  

no sadly not my friend 

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I think this is a valid point. I think it's partly because they don't know. There's 2 months until the draft. Lot's of player evaluations and interview to be undertaken. And 2 months for Dwayne to be in there proving he's the franchise QB to the new regime. Come April 24, if the staff feels really good about Dwayne, they probably don't think twice about a QB.

 

If Haskins blows up and turns into a baby about this, then I guess we have our answer.

 

And if the Bengals take Chase Young, you have exposed teams to the thought that you could take Burrow OR Tua at #2 through your pre-draft process, and could get a draft haul for pick #2. Or you convince Detroit you're into Tua, and force them to move to #2, or for Miami to move to #3 and then to #2, to take Chase and get picks back.

 

Bottom line: this is what a competent staff SHOULD be doing. And nothing they're saying is wrong about Dwayne.

 

I like a lot of your posts. This is a damn good one. Agree with every word. Nothing, so far, other than what they've aid directly about Dwayne (Smith with praise, Rivera with... tougher love...) is anything about Dwayne. It's about the Redskins looking to make the best moves possible.

 

Usually you play good cop/bad cop with someone who you're actively trying to encourage to change their habits, so that does say something about him.

 

But it definitely doesn't say who they're drafting or what their plans are.

 

I know if I was the Skins GM I'd be telling everyone in the building: We have no plan. We know we like a few guys. And we know a trade down scenario could be possible. Our plan is to figure out what the best course of action is a day or two before the draft and move forward to execute that plan. Until that point, we're not sold on anything or anyone. 

 

This is what I would do if I were the FO. And these guys are smarter than me so they make me look smart. So I like them

[volsmet]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Ping Pong tournament? 

 

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Are you just getting caught up in the smoke/hype of the #2 pick ... or ... what?

that’s no smokescreen. Rivera isn’t here to piss about and play games.

 

that said, Tua might go #1 overall to someone else.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Hope your being sarcastic, 74.  

 

3 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Are you just getting caught up in the smoke/hype of the #2 pick ... or ... what?

 

You guys think his view to draft Tua is more ridiculous than a thread made a day after our season ended welcoming Chase Young to the Redskins?

[Skinsinparadise]

Basically, Rivera-Kyle are flat out doing what some here suggest they do and kick the can on the QBs.  Don't see why it is a wild and crazy idea.   Rivera's reputation is being a straight shooter and brutally honest versus being cagy and purposely misleading.  So when he says its not just due diligence, I believe him because it makes sense.   Why wouldn't you do due diligence on QBs who might be at your pick that many rave about?  Why not check them out?

 

On 106.7, two different dudes (echoes some of Keim's comments but in a heavier handed way) just commented on what they've heard they think of Haskins in the building.  I'll just say this if they are all correct at a minimum they at least don't see Haskins as slam dunk the answer to all their prayers at QB and at least its an open question.

 

My gut remains the same that they take Chase Young.  I love Chase so no complaints from me.  But I truly believe they are going to consider Tua and Burrow considering one is landing at their pick and IMO they would be foolish not to.  How often are we picking when we got a mega ballyhooed QB just land at the spot when we pick?  For those who think they shouldn't take Tua or Burrow, I get the logic.  My disagreement is simply, I'd at least take a look under the hood before slamming shut the possibility. 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

If Tua is 100% healthy I do want to be on record saying I want Tua > Burrow. And if Tua goes #1 to the Bengals, I actually do not want any part of Burrow at #2. He's 23, his one big year of production was on a team surrounded by some major NFL talent, and he was beat out by our own QB in college who is a year younger than him and has been on the team for a year already.

 

Hard No on Joe.

[RWJ]

I've said this on another Skin forum and will here.  I think there is a 99.9% chance the Bengals draft a QB and a .1% we do.  Cincy draft Burrow or Tua and Skins draft Young. 

[Est.1974]

Hello, hello, anybody home. Hey, think Haskins, think.

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Not that Casserly is the be all and end all to say the least but he was just on NFL Network, his comments:

 

A. He'd take Chase Young.

 

B.  if you believe Tua is a better QB than Haskins, you take him, simple as that.  

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

The guys who have won without being a top tier quarterback are generally top tier technicians and minds. These are two places that Haskins is lacking.

 

Peyton Manning, even as a horrible physical QB, had guys who would run through walls for him and gave his offense a chance because of how much smarter he was than everyone else.

 

 

Eli Manning won in 2007, and he certainly wasn't a good technician or football mind at that point.  He was still making stupid mistakes, and not reading defenses correctly.  He was better as a QB in 2011 though.

 

Big Ben back in 2005 wasn't trusted to do as much, they barely let him drop back that wasn't a play action.  If I'm remembering right, his passing attempts per game were the lowest in the league, even lower than Michael Vick who scrambled all the time.

 

Peyton in 2015 was smart, but his arm was shot.  We can't call him a technician because of that.  That Broncos defense and run game carried them.  They had 104 passing yards in the Super Bowl, and only 145 in the AFC Championship.  Peyton couldn't really do much of anything anymore.

 

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Dak is a pretty high ceiling for Haskins, in my opinion. 

 

Not sure how to read that, since your stance on Dak can change how that is read by a lot.  Some Dallas fans think he's going to be wildly overpaid, and can't lead them anywhere.  And then some other Dallas fans think he's a pretty good QB, who with a good team can go on playoff runs.

 

Haskins has wildly different talent and skills than Dak.  So it's hard to compare and say who Dak is right now, is Haskins ceiling.  They both do stuff that the other can't.  So the comparison relies on if you think Dak is good enough (or not) to lead Dallas to several playoff runs.

[KDawg]

12 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

If Tua is 100% healthy I do want to be on record saying I want Tua > Burrow. And if Tua goes #1 to the Bengals, I actually do not want any part of Burrow at #2. He's 23, his one big year of production was on a team surrounded by some major NFL talent, and he was beat out by our own QB in college who is a year younger than him and has been on the team for a year already.

 

Hard No on Joe.

 

I agree here, actually.

 

If Tua is 1, Young is my pick, no question.

 

If Young is 1, Tua is likely my pick, but I listen to trade down scenarios and get Okudah or Simmons.

 

If Burrow is 1, it's the worst decision that I have to make. Swap with Detroit and take what they don't. And get their second and some extras. Or take someone straight up. I'm not sure who yet. 

5 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Haskins has wildly different talent and skills than Dak.  So it's hard to compare and say who Dak is right now, is Haskins ceiling.  They both do stuff that the other can't.  So the comparison relies on if you think Dak is good enough (or not) to lead Dallas to several playoff runs.

 

I think Dak is a very good QB. Not elite. I think he's capable of taking Dallas to many playoff runs. But not at $40m/season. 

 

I think Haskin ceiling is a bit below Dak's.

[kingdaddy]

20 hours ago, volsmet said:

Chase Young is what grade & Ryan Kerrigan/FA is what? Obviously 5 points, using any system, is more significant at QB than Edge. QB impacts every position & there just aren’t a lot of draft classes with QBs scouts like as much as they like Tua - & there aren’t many opportunities with a top 2 pick for any team. Who knows when you have another viable shot at a QB graded this highly. 
 

The only team who was willing to invest a top 15 pick in DH was one owned by an diminutive odalisque, who has a son, who is friends with DH. On the other hand, every team in the nfl would be willing to invest a top 15 pick in an *injured Tua, and a top 5 pick if his health was 100%. 
 

 

Yep, that's the biggest piece to this....if Tua is viewed as a generational QB then how do you pass on him? Well, only if you think Haskins is the real deal too or is good enough to win you a SB if you build wisely around him. Plenty of teams won SB's without Dan Marino and none did with Dan Marino. But Miami is to blame for that. Ben Roethlisberger is the best comp I can make to Dwayne. He is a very good QB who will make the HOF and has 2 rings because he did enough to win with a great cast around him. 

 

[Skin'emAlive]

This is just working him out for the sake of it. Best case scenario is that we fool Detroit into trading up 1 spot for Tua. I don’t see that happening with Stafford still there, and the blaring holes on defense in Detroit. 
 

Get Haskins some more weapons in FA, and draft Young to complete our core strength. This is easy. 

[crabbypatty]

17 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Now we're cooking with a charcoal grill.

 

The guys who have won without being a top tier quarterback are generally top tier technicians and minds. These are two places that Haskins is lacking.

 

Peyton Manning, even as a horrible physical QB, had guys who would run through walls for him and gave his offense a chance because of how much smarter he was than everyone else.

 

Trent Dilfer won because he was the type of QB the Ravens needed and his teammates believed in him not to screw it up. And he's smart as hell and understands the game. 

 

Dak is a pretty high ceiling for Haskins, in my opinion. 

Agree completely, and I think Haskins can grow into one or both. I think he's got the smarts to do what needs to be done, he just needs to mature, and that comes with time. He showed he understood the verbiage and plays last year. I don't recall a single time he failed to get a play off in time, or had to call time out because he didn't know what was going on/couldn't get the play out. He also was able to learn from his mistakes early in the year and did not repeat them as the year went on. So that shows me he can learn, and learn quickly. How many times have we seen guys (qb's) make the same boneheaded mistakes time and time again? I definitely think he's got the smarts for the job.

 

We sometimes forget the kid is only 22 years old, and has probably been coddled his whole life. I think last year was the first time adversity (being benched) hit him and he responded by sulking like a kid. Now the trick is to get him to learn from that and not take things for granted, which is what it appears Ron & co. are doing.

 

I hate to use Cam as an example, but the guy was a giant knucklehead coming out of Auburn. He was a giant of a qb and supremely talented, but was not a prototypical NFL passer, and even today as a passer is a middling guy. But they were able to get his head straight and put him in a position to succeed and be good enough to win. I kind of see the same thing with Haskins. He does some dumb things (selfies, pout, etc) but they can be corrected, and he's shown he's got the physical skills to succeed, it's up to the coaches to develop him and put him in a position to succeed, and I think Ron and crew are more than capable of doing that. I don't think all is lost with Dwayne, I think in a year or two all of this will be forgotten and he will be entrenched as our guy.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If Burrow is 1, it's the worst decision that I have to make. Swap with Detroit and take what they don't. And get their second and some extras. 

Okay, so hear me out on whether the Skins are actually unsure about Dwayne. Like, really, really unsure, but think there's a chance he could blow up this year and be a stud, but an equal chance he just doesn't get it and completely bombs.

 

I am not taking Tua at #2. I am trading pick #2 for everything and anything I can get.

 

And if that is with Miami, I am actually prioritizing the 2021 picks over the 2020 picks.

 

Give me #5, #39, a 4th and a 5th. But give me next year's #1 and #2.

 

Draft OT or WR at #5. Use the mid-round picks to get some depth on defense. Use FA to add offensive weapons and secure the OL. Give Haskins the resources to succeed.

 

If he flourishes, great. You're stacked in the 2021 draft and just added a ton through FA and the draft to build around.

 

If he bombs out, you probably don't have a season better than say, 6-10. You have Miamis 1st and 2nd. You now have the assets to get your QB in 2021. And that may not be Lawrence, because you probably won't be able to trade to #1. But it could be Justin Fields or Trey Lance. And let's say you go 5-11 and have pick #9. And Miami takes Tua, rests him to start the year, and ends up going 5-11 with pick #7. And let's say Cincy sucks again and goes 3-13 and gets pick #1. I think Cincy would be DTF and trade us #1 for #7, #9 and a 2nd.

 

IDK just spitballing.

 

If you're 60% feeling good about Haskins and 40% feeling iffy, I say you take Chase. But if you're 70% iffy and 30% good ... I'm trading out of #2, and building my future draft capital while simultaneously building the core around Haskins to see if he can succeed.

[KDawg]

Just now, crabbypatty said:

Agree completely, and I think Haskins can grow into one or both. I think he's got the smarts to do what needs to be done, he just needs to mature, and that comes with time. He showed he understood the verbiage and plays last year. I don't recall a single time he failed to get a play off in time, or had to call time out because he didn't know what was going on/couldn't get the play out. He also was able to learn from his mistakes early in the year and did not repeat them as the year went on. So that shows me he can learn, and learn quickly. How many times have we seen guys (qb's) make the same boneheaded mistakes time and time again? I definitely think he's got the smarts for the job.

 

We sometimes forget the kid is only 22 years old, and has probably been coddled his whole life. I think last year was the first time adversity (being benched) hit him and he responded by sulking like a kid. Now the trick is to get him to learn from that and not take things for granted, which is what it appears Ron & co. are doing.

 

I hate to use Cam as an example, but the guy was a giant knucklehead coming out of Auburn. He was a giant of a qb and supremely talented, but was not a prototypical NFL passer, and even today as a passer is a middling guy. But they were able to get his head straight and put him in a position to succeed and be good enough to win. I kind of see the same thing with Haskins. He does some dumb things (selfies, pout, etc) but they can be corrected, and he's shown he's got the physical skills to succeed, it's up to the coaches to develop him and put him in a position to succeed, and I think Ron and crew are more than capable of doing that. I don't think all is lost with Dwayne, I think in a year or two all of this will be forgotten and he will be entrenched as our guy.

 

I think he's capable of learning. I don't think he's stupid by any means. I just don't think he loves football. And that, to me, is scary for my starting QB who isn't a world beater in anything other than arm strength. 

 

Haskins has better than expected mobility, but he isn't Cam Newton. And no, not everything is lost on Dwayne. I think if he stays here, the team could be a real contender in year 6 or 7. Question is... How much is he costing the team at that point? 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

6 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

This is just working him out for the sake of it. Best case scenario is that we fool Detroit into trading up 1 spot for Tua. I don’t see that happening with Stafford still there, and the blaring holes on defense in Detroit. 
 

Get Haskins some more weapons in FA, and draft Young to complete our core strength. This is easy. 

 

HONESTLY. This. I think there's a ton of chips to fall in FA with the QB carousell, but if Detroit senses a market for Stafford when the dust settles, and can get some good value for him, I sure hope this helps force them to swap with us so they can land Tua.

[crabbypatty]

30 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Almost nothing is worse than finding your Andy Dalton. 

Or a Kirk Cousins.. as the Vikings are finding out

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Okay, so hear me out on whether the Skins are actually unsure about Dwayne. Like, really, really unsure, but think there's a chance he could blow up this year and be a stud, but an equal chance he just doesn't get it and completely bombs.

 

I am not taking Tua at #2. I am trading pick #2 for everything and anything I can get.

 

And if that is with Miami, I am actually prioritizing the 2021 picks over the 2020 picks.

 

Give me #5, #39, a 4th and a 5th. But give me next year's #1 and #2.

 

Draft OT or WR at #5. Use the mid-round picks to get some depth on defense. Use FA to add offensive weapons and secure the OL. Give Haskins the resources to succeed.

 

If he flourishes, great. You're stacked in the 2021 draft and just added a ton through FA and the draft to build around.

 

If he bombs out, you probably don't have a season better than say, 6-10. You have Miamis 1st and 2nd. You now have the assets to get your QB in 2021. And that may not be Lawrence, because you probably won't be able to trade to #1. But it could be Justin Fields or Trey Lance.

 

IDK just spitballing.

 

If you're 60% feeling good about Haskins and 40% feeling iffy, I say you take Chase. But if you're 70% iffy and 30% good ... I'm trading out of #2, and building my future draft capital while simultaneously building the core around Haskins to see if he can succeed.

 

I don't mind this mindset. It's open and honest. 

 

I don't necessarily know that I would pass on Tua, but it's hard to pass on a haul. I'd probably take Okudah/Simmons at 5. But OT makes sense there, too. 

 

I'm not against any approach to be honest, aside from not taking Tua, Young or trading back. It's all viable. Trading back and still getting Young at 3 (even if Detroit took Tua at 2) would be a great situation for this team. Simply because of the extra draft picks. 

 

Good post!

[CommanderInTheRye]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

(snip)

I know if I was the Skins GM I'd be telling everyone in the building: We have no plan. We know we like a few guys. And we know a trade down scenario could be possible. Our plan is to figure out what the best course of action is a day or two before the draft and move forward to execute that plan. Until that point, we're not sold on anything or anyone. 

(snip)

 

 

 

Yes, leave all options open while objectively gathering essential data.

 

That is a mature approach towards dealing with decisions dependent on a fluid and uncertain information base. 

 

When faced with difficult high risk/reward decisions many organizations consciously or unconsciously meld their efforts  into a group think mindset where they are literally going through the motions because they know the final decision that they're going to make. 

 

Rivera seems to have adroitly avoided that institutional mind trap.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I think he's capable of learning. I don't think he's stupid by any means. I just don't think he loves football. And that, to me, is scary for my starting QB who isn't a world beater in anything other than arm strength. 

 

Haskins has better than expected mobility, but he isn't Cam Newton. And no, not everything is lost on Dwayne. I think if he stays here, the team could be a real contender in year 6 or 7. Question is... How much is he costing the team at that point? 

6-7 years?!

 

You think Dwayne is that far behind? 😮

[crabbypatty]

17 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

HONESTLY. This. I think there's a ton of chips to fall in FA with the QB carousell, but if Detroit senses a market for Stafford when the dust settles, and can get some good value for him, I sure hope this helps force them to swap with us so they can land Tua.

maybe they are shopping Stafford behind the scenes.. this was posted 2/14

https://nypost.com/2020/02/14/the-matthew-stafford-trade-rumors-are-getting-weird/

 

“We stand by our story and by our sources,” a new post on Detroit’s WDIV Local 4 reads. “We are only reporting trade talks for Stafford and those talks have definitely taken place.”

The story was originally reported by the station on Wednesday evening, with claims that sources close to both parties told him the Lions have been actively shopping 32-year-old Stafford. Those discussions “have been underway for a couple weeks.”

Lions general manager Bob Quinn vehemently refuted the report.

“100% False!!” Quinn wrote in a text to the Detroit Free Press.

The media outlet’s defense takes a Kafkaesque turn, citing a series of Instagram stories posted by Kelly Stafford, wife of Matthew Stafford, that predated their report.

“We find tremendous validity in what we are reporting because of what Kelly Stafford posted on Instagram,” the post on WDIV Local 4 reads. “Before our report was made, she posted that if Detroit was done with her husband, then they would like to go to the Los Angeles Chargers. The Chargers need a quarterback after Philip Rivers left.”

Kelly Stafford posted two screenshots of a FanDuel article titled, “3 Most Likely Trade Destinations for Matthew Stafford If the Lions Draft a QB.” The article lists potential landing spots for the Pro Bowl quarterback with the text, “Well if detroit is done with us…” and “I could stay in Cali…” overlaid. The second screenshot listed the Los Angeles Chargers as the top trade destination, which is close to one of the Staffords’ properties in Newport Coast.

“The fact that Kelly posted that before our report tells us things were going behind the scenes, and our sources later confirmed it,” WDIV said.

 

Man.. IF Detroit was able to move Stafford before the draft they'd almost HAVE to trade up to secure a qb at #2. Unless they wanted to move down and stockpile picks with Mia, while being comfortable with Herbert or one of the other 2nd tier guys.

[KDawg]

Just now, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

6-7 years?!

 

You think Dwayne is that far behind? 😮

 

Yes.

 

I think he could show glimpses earlier, but still be prone to mistakes he hasn't physically experienced because he's not a film junkie. Now, if that changed, maybe he's ready earlier. I'd feel better if I read he spent the offseason watching tape of other quarterbacks and seeing so many different situations. Watching film sometimes isn't even about who you watch, it's about watching as much as you can to understand scenarios. And then play out in your head how you'd get through them.

 

Instead, I read that Dwayne doesn't really watch football because he doesn't love it. Which is okay, but it puts you way behind the 8-ball. 

 

There is ALWAYS room for improvement, especially for a guy who had success in college and has some tremendous physical ability. 

 

Of course, what I think doesn't matter. And the guys that are around Dwayne and Dwayne know his commitment level. If they were all comfortable, I'd believe them. They don't seem to be. That isn't reassuring.