FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[XxSpearheadxX]

On 2/21/2020 at 9:00 AM, cakmoney61 said:

  I have never been a person who believed the mantra "you can be whatever you want to be."  At a minimum, you must have the requisite skill set to reach the pinnacle of that endeavor.  To that individual, I would say "you can be whatever you want to be if you have the requisite skill set and if you put in the work."

 

 

I disagree in life, in sports, skillsets can be learned, that's inherent to the term skill. 

Like my old Bball coach used to say you can't teach height. 

Desire to improve skillsets, maximize one's athleticism, and use one's brain to dominate a game; well you can't teach that angry cold fire either. 

 

edit: on second thought maybe we are saying similar things 

[stoshuaj]

We’ve already seen (and generally ****ed about) the whole “this guy just had his leg ripped off (acknowledging hyperbole here) but he was a helluva player before so let’s  get him on the cheap and his leg will miraculously grow back” mindset.  
 

Finally, hopefully, we’ve moved on from that, except here apparently where:

 

People are right back to advocating the same thing.  Let’s draft a broken guy who can’t even stay healthy behind an Alabama o-line that is only really tested 3/4 times a year.  Last I checked there are no Ol Miss or La-Lafayette teams on the Skin’s schedule.  Hell, if anything, the Skins are the Arkansas of other team schedules.

[Skinsinparadise]

On 2/21/2020 at 1:59 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I haven't seen anything which tells me there's no chance Haskins couldn't turn into an elite QB.  I also haven't seen anything that says he won't be out of the league in 5 years.  It's really all an unknown.  

 

The greatest probability is her's somewhere in the middle.  Because, that's what most guys are. But it's really too early to tell.  

 

 

I agree that it could go either way with Haskins.  I am not all in on his chances or all out on them.   The big wildcard to me about about Haskins IMO are the intangibles -- work ethic, maturity.  It's not just a question about it not existing early but then the dude turned into Peyton on that front afterwards -- I've heard enough to know that's unlikely true but he improved on that front.  It's the great unknown about him.  There were mentions about it by scouts in the context of his combine prep, which I ignored at the time because it was a mixed message then about him on the topic and he talked the talk on that front really well as a college prospect.  There was also a strong hint about it by an Ohio State reporter who covered him who more or less said he does better preparation wise when he knows he's the guy and he was like that in college.

 

Personally, I think Haskins is a talented dude.  But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to piece together -- based on Rivera, Scott Turner, Doug's comments that Haskins commitment is the big wait and see wild card this off season.  And while I agree there is no way for us here to have that part figured out as for Haskins' make up.   The same point though would apply about talking about the personality of any player so talking about it here to me is fine, we've done it with all the QBs who have played here -- the whole board is mostly about speculating versus first hand knowledge.  And either we trust what reporters say who cover the team or don't.  And on that front when just about every guy who covers the team has a variation of the same narrative with some even have an anecdote-twist on the point than there typically is at least some meat to the story.    And I get some getting rumors wrong but this stuff aren't about rumors -- this would have to be the reporters outright lying considering they've said they've heard it directly from people in the building. 

 

We obviously are not at Redskins Park and watching it all first hand.   But, we'd have to believe there is some wild crazy conspiracy if it's all manufactured out of thin air for kicks let alone the coaches adding their own part of the dance to humor themselves.   As I've mentioned the only one dismissive of it has been Sheehan though he acknowledges it was an issue previously.   I take Keim the most seriously and he's been ultra clear about it being something people in the building want to see how Haskins approaches the off season and they do see it as a wildcard.  

 

Personally, I suspect that Haskins will work it this off season.  New coaches not handing him the spot to keep him on edge.  And clearly Doug is in his ear pushing him.    Alex IMO is the perfect impetus competition wise -- that dude is a paragon of work ethic-habits.  So I think you got the perfect storm to bring the best out of the dude.   But considering every beat guy more or less they hear that the new coaching staff-FO want to see Haskins work hard this off season and aren't just banking on it happening -- and you couple that with their public statements, especially from Turner and Doug -- it doesn't take a rocket scientist to paint the picture that its a wait and see off season with Haskins. 

 

I recall after we drafted Doctson, Cooley mentioned he heard from some who interacted with Doctson suggested to him that the dude doesn't love football.  Some really defended Doctson hard, me included.  In retrospect, Cooley looked right.   I get the natural homer instinct that criticism of the new toy is wrong and unfair.  I've hit that point myself aplenty.  I defended RG3 like a religion in the 2014 off season.    But sometimes there is something to the smoke.  As for Haskins, its not that the smoke is all bad.  It just comes off mixed.  People say he's a good kid.  I've mentioned here multiple times, met him, seems like a super nice guy.  Teammates like him.  They are intrigued by his talent.  The wildcard seems to be professionally, maturity, work ethic.  While people said all off season, Mclaurin is mature beyond his years -- that was not what some said about Haskins.   

 

Having said all that, I lean if anything optimistic on Haskins and lean that he conquers all of that and plays well.  But it's not hard to take the cues that it's not slam dunk because they are clearly coming from the coaching staff that they want to see Haskins do it before anointing him.  So I feel the same way,

[crabbypatty]

If Haskins is lazy and not prone to working hard it will be up to Ron to motivate him to work hard and reap the rewards.

I recall similar detractors about Cam when he came out, plus he had the laptop theft thing before he was drafted. The guy was a knucklehead, but he turned out ok. 

 

If Ron can corral a personality like cams, he can handle a laid back lazyish Haskins.

I'm not too worried about it.

[cakmoney61]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 Having said all that, I lean if anything optimistic on Haskins and lean that he conquers all of that and plays well.  But it's not hard to take the cues because they are clearly coming from the coaching staff that they want to see Haskins do it before anointing him.  So I feel the same way,

 

It would be foolish for a new coach to simply hand over the starting QB position to a second-year player with all of two games under his belt.  He was not the focal point of the head coach (Gruden) last year, but virtually an afterthought.  And it showed when he got a chance to start.

 

This year is different however.  He is being considered as the possible starting QB, so all eyes will be on him, unlike last year.  For him to expect more of a commitment from his new head coach would be silly and a sign of continued immaturity.  Haskins has to know he has to prove himself to Rivera and it starts with his work ethic based on a desire to be great and to be the starting QB.  If he's not showing that prior to the draft, I can see them taking a hard look at Tua if he's close to being fully healthy. 

 

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

16 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

If Haskins is lazy and not prone to working hard it will be up to Ron to motivate him to work hard and reap the rewards.

I recall similar detractors about Cam when he came out, plus he had the laptop theft thing before he was drafted. The guy was a knucklehead, but he turned out ok. 

 

If Ron can corral a personality like cams, he can handle a laid back lazyish Haskins.

I'm not too worried about it.

Take it a step further, if Ron can’t motivate him to do it, or he doesn’t do it, he’s not going to be here. It’s that simple.  

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I like Haskins. I Understand why people here would be tempted by a fully healthy Tua. And if Chase wasn’t in this draft I might consider it a bit more if Tua wasn’t hurt. But the risk is too great. To me, Haskins has equal chance of succeeding as Tua. And to pick the Tua side of that point, you’re sacrificing Chase Young or, if you are

of the other camp, a lot of draft picks in a trade down. 
 

hard no for me. 

[cakmoney61]

30 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Take it a step further, if Ron can’t motivate him to do it, or he doesn’t do it, he’s not going to be here. It’s that simple.  

 

I suspect Rivera will have some indication by draft day.  If he doesn't select Tua, it's probably safe to say Haskins didn't disqualify himself at least not yet.  For a fact, it would be no time for him to rest on his laurels thinking that the job is his now because he was drafted in the first round last year.  I believe that would be a grave mistake.  He could find himself riding the pine at the start of the 2020 season and beyond.

[KDawg]

26 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I like Haskins. I Understand why people here would be tempted by a fully healthy Tua. And if Chase wasn’t in this draft I might consider it a bit more if Tua wasn’t hurt. But the risk is too great. To me, Haskins has equal chance of succeeding as Tua. And to pick the Tua side of that point, you’re sacrificing Chase Young or, if you are

of the other camp, a lot of draft picks in a trade down. 
 

hard no for me. 

Respect anyone with this point of view. I just can’t understand the hard no. Mostly because Haskins hasn’t shown he has “it”.

 

I suppose believing that Rivera will help Haskins turn the tables is a good theory. And Haskins has the physical traits to get the job done.

 

Im not “out” on Haskins - I’m in on a healthy (assuming he medically checks out and looks good) Tua.

 

But, to counteract my own point, I’m not sure I pass on Young to get him. What gets interesting... and it won’t happen is:

 

Bengals take Young.

 

Now what? Probably trade down. But things get a lot more interesting in that unlikely scenario.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I do not want Burrow. Dude seems like a cancerous personality. 

[Supernatural24]

1 hour ago, crabbypatty said:

If Ron can corral a personality like cams, he can handle a laid back lazyish Haskins.

I'm not too worried about it.

Cam is a genuinely great QB that no one questioned. I am unsure why you compared him to Haskins.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I do not want Burrow. Dude seems like a cancerous personality. 

I am 100% in agreement. 

[dyst]

One way to judge a player is to pretend and imagine that player on an opposing team.

 

If Haskins was on the Giants, Eagles or Cowboys and performed exactly as he did last year, what would your opinion be of him.

[cakmoney61]

12 minutes ago, dyst said:

One way to judge a player is to pretend and imagine that player on an opposing team.

 

If Haskins was on the Giants, Eagles or Cowboys and performed exactly as he did last year, what would your opinion be of him.

 

What scares me more is Chase Young somehow ending up with the Giants because the Redskins drafted Tua or traded down.  I'm talking literal terror.  What if he is the second coming of Reggie White?  And they let him go to the Giants?!!!

[goskins10]

13 minutes ago, dyst said:

One way to judge a player is to pretend and imagine that player on an opposing team.

 

If Haskins was on the Giants, Eagles or Cowboys and performed exactly as he did last year, what would your opinion be of him.

 

You make a good point, if the point you are attempting to make is that especially in here, fans are way harder on Redskins players than they are on players of other teams. To many in here see Haskins as complete **** and Daniel Jones as a lock as a franchise QB. The unbiased facts are that both had their moments in their first season but also showed they have a lot to learn. This year will be big for both. I happen to think Haskins has a higher ceiling - and this from someone who did NOT want them to draft him past year. Jones had 3 good games - against us, the lions and the jets where he had 13 TDs and 0 ints. The rest of his starts? 11 TDs and 12 ints. He also for his 13 starts had 18 fumbles, 11 lost to go along with a whopping 61% comp %. Now Haskins numbers are pretty bad also. The difference is Haskins started out like total garbage and got better as the season progressed. Where Jones came out of the gate looking good and went backwards from there. 

 

The point for me in terms of Tua is that you just cannot ignore the injury. And honestly I could care less what the medicals say. They cannot get in the kids head. All they can do is tell you from a physical standpoint if he will heal properly. 

 

So yes, I am a hard no for Tua at #2. And I would think that way if we had Haskins or not. Now if you trade down and he is still there (which he will not be, this is in fact the NFL) then fine. But #2 is too high a pick to use on such a risky pick. Take Young or get a kinds ransom and trade down - but it better be Hershel Walker big. I guess there is a small chance Detroit gets spooked by say Miami jumping them to #2 and offering us something to switch places and we still get Young. But i think that is a bit more fantasy than reality. 

 

But this is the NFL draft. Never say never! 🙂  

 

[LD0506]

I wonder about the whole "we'll swap picks and you promise not to take Chase Young" thing. Exactly how ya gonna do that? If they laff and take him anyway, what then? Does TheDan sue them?

[Skinsinparadise]

Chris Russell just on.  He pretty much doubled down on what I said this morning in my posts.  And he was a hardcore Haskins guy last year, said he was the best QB in the draft and debated those who disagreed.   He said he knows from talking to people in the building that Haskins work ethic is a major red flag -- big time.  It improved over the season but it wasn't still what they wanted.  He said the players in the locker room know it.  The past coaches know it.  The current coaches know it.  The front office people know it.  People around the league know it.   He has heard the same thing from Keim, Hoffman, Paulsen and other people who have shared what they have heard.

 

I was listening to a podcast from Kiper and McShay yesterday and they weren't that hot on Haskins but didn't elaborate on it. Both said they should take Tua.  Wonder if this has something to do with it.

 

The optimism is that  Doug though is the right guy to egg him on.  And Scott Turner and Rivera are on it as for pushing Haskins so will see.    I like Haskins as a dude and liked him more as a player than I expected but I admit I don't love hearing about any athlete that they don't work really hard and they need to be pushed.  It usually isn't a good portent. 

 

I like Haskins from first hand experience.  I am typically a homer on our players.  I've defended just about every young QB we've had and in a hardcore fashion, Campbell, RG3, Kirk, etc.   And I get some people's instinct to naturally defend and rally around a young QB.  I have done it plenty myself in the past and heck I've defended Haskins too at times but not on this specific point.  With Haskins, this work habit narrative to me is cringe worthy.  I can't recall it on any of our other QBs.  And I don't think anyone is just making it up either or just saying it to be cruel.  One of my hopes is the narrative is getting so widespread that its bound to have found its way to Haskins and some of his big supporters like Shawn Springs, etc -- and i do think he's competitive as heck on the field, so I'd love (and even think its likely) that it fuels Haskins to kill it where he goes to himself I'll show them. 

 

https://thefandc.radio.com/scott-turner-dwayne-haskins-has-all-physical-tools

The thing the new Redskins offensive coordinator is looking from his young quarterback: Commitment to his craft. 

"You've got to be the most committed guy in the building," Turner said. "Your teammates have to see that, the coaches have to see that because that is how you develop trust and that is how you develop leadership."

“If you’re the last guy in, the first guy to leave, you don’t have a mastery of the offense as a quarterback and you try to tell somebody else what to do or try to step into a leadership-type role it is not going to work and no one is going to listen to you,” Turner added.

“It starts No. 1 that the quarterback has to spend their time so he knows the offense better than anybody," he said. "Guys see when it is there and guys see when it is not.”

 

Gibbs below. 

 

 

[Est.1974]

I think we all should realise that Haskins is on a short leash. The FA market has more than the usual number of better than serviceable QBs, as short term options, plus stating the obvious, we are in prime position for a QB in the draft, even if that is someone else outside of Burrow and Tua. 
 

If work ethic remains a major red flag amongst almost everyone, it won’t end well IMO.

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I think we all should realise that Haskins is on a short leash. The FA market has more than the usual number of better than serviceable QBs, as short term options, plus stating the obvious, we are in prime position for a QB in the draft, even if that is someone else outside of Burrow and Tua. 
 

If work ethic remains a major red flag amongst almost everyone, it won’t end well IMO.

 

With it being crystal clear there are at least doubts in that building about Haskins' intangibles -- the contrast to drafting Tua I'd gather might be at least interesting to some in that building.  Tua is known to have out of this world type of intangibles. 

 

I got concerns about Tua's injury history.  I've seen him play live multiple times and I do think if healthy he will be a great QB.  I don't think anyone here can predict or know about his health, I'd leave that to the team doctors to figure out.

 

I am one of the key leaders of the parade of the draft Chase Young movement so to speak.   I am also not among some of Haskins' critics on this thread who are completely out on him.  I do think Haskins has a chance to be a good one.  But if Rivera, Turner, Doug or whomever are concerned about Haskins and want to move on, I'd be cool with it.   I suspect they've decided to ride this season with Haskins through thick and thin.  And they see this off season as the ultimate test for Haskins because he again has to learn a new playbook so they want to see if this time (unlike last time, heck even Peterson brought up that point) he really goes to town on it. 

 

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/alabama-football/tua-tagovailoa-faith-family-football/

There have been times, his father says, when Tua has gone back to the practice facility after a game to get in more reps. “Later on at about 10 at night, we come home. And he’s getting ready to go train again. He goes to that facility and does training. I mean, after a football game! And I’m thinking ‘wow,’” Galu says. Like most other virtues in his life, Tua’s commitment to discipline and hard work stems largely from his faith, and he strives for excellence and perfection over stardom. The long hours, the unceasing reps, the hours of studying film and asking the hard questions 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

1 hour ago, LD0506 said:

I wonder about the whole "we'll swap picks and you promise not to take Chase Young" thing. Exactly how ya gonna do that? If they laff and take him anyway, what then? Does TheDan sue them?

Can the terms of the trade not be exact? 

 

Lions Trade: Chase Young to Washington along with a 2nd round pick. 

 

Redskins Trade: Tua

 

We only trade with the Lions if those terms are agreed upon. Just select Tua first and trade him to the Lions for Young after the Lions select Young.

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Can the terms of the trade not be exact? 

 

Lions Trade: Chase Young to Washington along with a 2nd round pick. 

 

Redskins Trade: Tua

 

We only trade with the Lions if those terms are agreed upon. Just select Tua first and trade him to the Lions for Young after the Lions select Young.

And then they laugh and take chase leaving us with Tua.  😈😀

[crabbypatty]

4 hours ago, Supernatural24 said:

Cam is a genuinely great QB that no one questioned. I am unsure why you compared him to Haskins.

NOW Cam is a great QB. You forget about him being involved in stealing laptops from his college campus, multiple off field incidents and character issues, along with him being an athletic beast, but flawed passer (which he still is today)

before and after he was drafted everyone was asking wtf the panthers were doing drafting a problem child like him.

 

Haskins flaws, while large, are nowhere near as bad. The guy needs a fire lit under his ass no question, but he's never been viewed as a knucklehead low character guy.

My point was if Ron can deal with a personality like Cam's and get him into the right mindset and away from trouble (where he was headed) then he can surely work wonders with Haskins.

[dyst]

@goskins10 yes definitely goes both ways. For Haskins, I wasn’t impressed but he did play with a banged up offensive line, no TE, rookie WRs, incompetent coaching, an awful defense who couldn’t help him and disfunction at top, so I guess I am willing to see what he does under new leadership but I am not willing to wait years for him to develop, show leadership or that special factor that some players have.

[Est.1974]

5 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I do not want Burrow. Dude seems like a cancerous personality. 

I think the Bengals may well come to that conclusion and draft elsewhere.