Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins

FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


PCS

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

 

Yeah, but, there are of couple better QBs in next years draft. Maybe drafting an WR with are first round would have been a better choice, we could have suffered through this year in prime position to pick in the top 2-3 next year....  If we don't make it to the playoffs this year, (i doubt we will) Gruden is likely gone... Allen might be gone..... It makes since to let the next HC/GM pick their QB.... 

 

Who?

 

Tua, yes.   Tua will have the experience, athleticism, accuracy, production and all that and he'll certainly be THE MAN.   Who else?   Haskins was graded by NFL.com as a 6.2 with the bulk of his flaws related to inexperience.   If he has a year very similar to what he had this year in college again, he's over 7.0 and if he bumps his 40 time to 4.8, he's 7.5.   There isn't another college QB not named Tua who is ahead of him NEXT year IF he stays in college another year and does anything similar to this year.   As it was he already had a higher draft grade than Rosen or Allen last year and would easily have topped Darnold without the inexperience demerits.

Justin Herbert is generally considered the No. 2 QB for next year's draft right now and he's not even close to what Haskins was rated this year despite playing time.   He's a big boy though.  Fromm's the only other and, again, in spite of already being a two-year starter didn't project as well as Haskins this year and would not have surpassed him if the two played similarly for another year.   In fact if Murray and Haskins both came back next year's class would likely be Tua, Haskins as Haskins negative marks are mostly related to inexperience, which improve with experience, where Murray's relatively low prospect grade is hurt by being small, which doesn't change.

Next year Haskins is the No. 2 pick in the draft.   If he stayed and did anything like he did this year.    

Your point about Gruden being gone is right.   And, yeah, that does create an issue in that we're not going to hire, say, Lincoln Riley from OU as our coach with Haskins as his QB.   Like how Arizona didn't sit with Rosen, who, like Haskins, had almost the same draft grade as Murray.    That's a real thing to watch for.   But we are much more attractive as an organization having Haskins here for most systems and coaches if Gruden is gone, so that likely is a selling point, more than a detriment.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Maybe drafting an WR with are first round would have been a better choice, we could have suffered through this year in prime position to pick in the top 2-3 next year....  

Well, the decision to draft Haskins is made but I submit that had we not drafted a QB this year, we’d be playing a lost year with Case or Colt whereas both contracts expire at the end of this year. Then, if lucky, we’d be drafting top five (which boils my blood as a fan) in the hopes of landing a supposedly better QB. Supposedly. Then, the same conventional wisdom would be to have the 2020 rookie wait a year.  So, now we are at TWO years of blah. No thanks. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, just my what-the-hell-do-I-know? opinion, but I'd like see Haskins start, get the gameplan tailored to his strengths in camp and let'er rip. The only caveat I'd have is don't get the kid hurt, let him take his lumps and losses and learn on the field, he'll get a ton more out of playing than he could holding a clipboard. Next year, we're in the top of the draft, already have our QB, deal with QB needy teams to target whatever, Trent's replacement at LT? A top tier WR? A week ago this season was all but written off by the fans (myself included tbh), give him all he can handle, make it clear that this ISN'T make-or-break for JG & Co. (unless they really eff it up) and roll dem bones.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I want him to start sooner than later. Case will have the upper hand early on for obvious reasons, but expect Haskins in by game 4.

 

Here's more on the arizona model. Rosen failed Arizona and so they traded him, and drafted another. I laughed at Arizona but you know what's worse, sticking with a failing QB for 3 years who finally eeks them out to mediocrity and a later draft slot. I was hoping teams would low ball Arizona and stick them with Rosen but that's not the worst thing either.  Murray and Rosen has a lot of potential to graduate a competent one out of the 2.

 

Long story short is that Rosen was not a total write off. No one can tank like a rookie QB. Yeah they burned the top pick on him, but did get a year out of him and to evaluate him, and they sucked, and he helped them tank into the top pick. And then traded him for a 2nd.

 

Either a kid is going to make it or he isn't, and a savvy GM with that QB fully under his scrutiny for a year, better be smart enough to know if he is going to make it. Play your kid: succeed spectacularly, or tank gloriously and then just draft another QB,  Winner winner next years Heisman Trophy QB winner for dinner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Amazing how much QB experience Haskins has to draw from :

Doug, Alex, Jay, Kevin, Tim, Matt, Case, Colt.

What a wealth of information.

There should be nothing left out, when it comes to development.

 

I think the organization needs to help make that possible to him if he doesn't outright attach himself to them on his own. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

I want him to start sooner than later. Case will have the upper hand early on for obvious reasons, but expect Haskins in by game 4.

 

Here's more on the arizona model. Rosen failed Arizona and so they traded him, and drafted another. I laughed at Arizona but you know what's worse, sticking with a failing QB for 3 years who finally eeks them out to mediocrity and a later draft slot. I was hoping teams would low ball Arizona and stick them with Rosen but that's not the worst thing either.  Murray and Rosen has a lot of potential to graduate a competent one out of the 2.

 

Long story short is that Rosen was not a total write off. No one can tank like a rookie QB. Yeah they burned the top pick on him, but did get a year out of him and to evaluate him, and they sucked, and he helped them tank into the top pick. And then traded him for a 2nd.

 

Either a kid is going to make it or he isn't, and a savvy GM with that QB fully under his scrutiny for a year, better be smart enough to know if he is going to make it. Play your kid: succeed spectacularly, or tank gloriously and then just draft another QB,  Winner winner next years Heisman Trophy QB winner for dinner.

 

The problem with that is Murray could be a bust as well. Then you have just lost top ten talent in back to back years. Haskins at 15 is a steal IMO. If he busts. Big deal. Your hit rate at pick 15 in the NFL draft is only 53% anyways. And it is actually higher with QB's. You didnt mortgage the future to get the guy. But IF the opposite is true and Haskins becomes a top 15 QB in the league you have just struck gold and have the guy on the cheap for 5 seasons.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Amazing how much QB experience Haskins has to draw from :

Doug, Alex, Jay, Kevin, Tim, Matt, Case, Colt.

What a wealth of information.

There should be nothing left out, when it comes to development.

How do pro teams actually go about developing QBs during the regular season?  Starters get all the snaps in practice, right?  Other leagues seem to have more clear cut paths of development.  The nfl seems like the guy doesn’t play at all, and barely practices, or has the entire weight of the organization on him.  No middle ground.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

I think at best, she is working with incomplete info. Certainly not enough to form a concrete opinion over

 

Nfl reporters are almost all laymen and they cover the draft particularly poorly.  The vast major know almost nothing about the scouting and teambuilding process.  They don't understand the draft and are entirely reliant upon the player evaluation expertise of just a few sources, who never give them complete information.  They parrot poorly sources information from team sources with clear agendas to lie and happily spread misinformation.  They are not real journalists and do not follow ap guidelines or best practices.  They are neither competent nor trustworthy, and their credibility never takes a bit for being wildly incorrect.  Sports reporting and covering the draft in particular is the wild West.  It's very difficult to tune out all of the trash that's published about the draft to find legitimate nuggets of information about evaluations.  In the case of the deluge of bull**** that came out predraft about the redskins, almost none of it passed the smell test.  But fans got shook and repeated the nonsense so pervasively it mimicked the force of truth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Destino said:

How do pro teams actually go about developing QBs during the regular season?  Starters get all the snaps in practice, right?  Other leagues seem to have more clear cut paths of development.  The nfl seems like the guy doesn’t play at all, and barely practices, or has the entire weight of the organization on him.  No middle ground.

 

Sounds accurate for the regular reason.

So I think they should take advantage of the time in the offseason.

I don't know how realistic this is, but imagine if, starting soon and between now and the regular season, they could create a controlled environment, where Haskins spends time with each of them, both on the field and off the field in the environment of the chalkboard/laptop/film screen, etc.

 

Some may say "too many chefs in the kitchen". But with proper discipline, it can be channeled into something positive, using all those diverse and fresh eyes.

If they can pull that off in a way that is not chaotic, and does not create contradictions between input, or usurp anyone's authority, it seems like something huge can be gained there. Something somewhat of a Roundtable.

The older vets (not coaches) could also see it as a way of even possibly grooming their own selves into a coaching future, so there's something in it for them, too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

 

Yeah, but, there are of couple better QBs in next years draft. Maybe drafting an WR with are first round would have been a better choice, we could have suffered through this year in prime position to pick in the top 2-3 next year....  If we don't make it to the playoffs this year, (i doubt we will) Gruden is likely gone... Allen might be gone..... It makes since to let the next HC/GM pick their QB.... 

 

Gruden and Allen are going nowhere. Kyle Smith is about to get promoted to GM here, and Allen will keep his title as president. Firing your head coach 1 year into your rookie qb’s career is a good way to completely waste that players potential. ( see Arizona ) 

 

additionally, next year the Raiders move to Vegas, next year’s draft is in Vegas, Carr is in his final year of his contract, Nathan the TANK COMMANDER is the backup, and John Gruden is coach following a draft where he reached on ALL 3 1st round picks... Tua is guaranteed to land in Vegas next year. Guaranteed! We have no shot at that pick... 

 

Even if we somehow land the #1 overall next year, which is highly unlikely, that pick would be worth a fortune! We could trade down out of that pick and be set for a decade! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

I want him to start sooner than later. Case will have the upper hand early on for obvious reasons, but expect Haskins in by game 4.

 

 

Haskins is not starting for this team until atleast after New England. The first 5-6 games are going to be rough. No reason to put him out there until after Minnesota, 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People want to diminish Haskins for the talent of his surrounding cast while they simultaneously tout Tua and/or Murray.  And yet Tua's LT just got picked 11th overall.  His RBs got picked in the first and third (they have a third one who is gonna get drafted high too).  His tight end just went in the second.  His center got drafted by us in the 5th.  Three of his receivers are going to get drafted as underclassmen next year, Jeudy will probably be a top ten pick, and when Waddle comes out he'll get drafted high too. 

 

And Oklahoma?  One receiver taken in the first and CeeDee Lamb will be a first round pick next year.  Four ****ing offensive linemen taken in the first half of the draft, specifically his tackles in the second and third rounds and both his guards in the fourth.  A RB drafted in the 6th.  What's the balance for Ohio State?  One wide receiver in the 2nd, one in the 3rd, his guard at the end of the 4th and his tackle at the end of the 6th.  Dobbins was the only other blue chip stud on that offense with Haskins and he wasn't as good this year as he was as a freshman.

 

We can play this game with Clemson and Georgia too.  Hell, we can do it for Stanford and KJ Costello.  So why is Haskins the only one taking **** for playing with NFL talent?  His supporting cast isn't even close to as good as Murray's or Tua's were.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

 

Yeah, but, there are of couple better QBs in next years draft.

 

Who?

 

I like Tua. But he has a few major weak spots in his game that will likely be corrected. He has a bright future if he continues his uptrend. But beyond Tua, I don't see a lot. Herbert is a guy I'm totally unsold on. Who's #3? Fromm? A guy who could prove capable but hasn't really gotten the job done at the collegiate level in an elite SEC program, and not just because Alabama is road blocking him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Are there examples of pocket QBs who turned into franchise guys (Manning, Brady, Wilson, rodgers) whose main knock was they couldn’t handle pressure up the gut? 

 

The main knock nick against Wilson was that he was short,  and Brady’s knock was that he had a weak arm if I remember correctly... 

 

A qb who can’t handle center blitzes hurts the run game as defenses load the box to get into the qbs head... if he can’t pass to slow down the run, it’s a little concerning to me.

 

Can you please post where you saw that comment? It makes no sense to be honest. This is virtually every pocket QB that has ever played the game. When you get pressure up the middle it breaks down all the blocking. Also, up the middle is the fastest way to the QB. It gives them the least amount of time to make a decision and with those big bodies it makes it hard to find throwing lanes.  

 

During the draft they were talking about the AFC East teams getting big guys up the middle so they could pressure Brady as that's the only way to get to him. A good rush up the middle is pretty much every QBs kryptonite. The more mobile QBs can elude that rush but it's still a crap shoot because plays start breaking down once the QB has to scramble. 

 

Again, if you could post where you saw this I would be very interested. 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

People want to diminish Haskins for the talent of his surrounding cast while they simultaneously tout Tua and/or Murray.  And yet Tua's LT just got picked 11th overall.  His RBs got picked in the first and third (they have a third one who is gonna get drafted high too).  His tight end just went in the second.  His center got drafted by us in the 5th.  Three of his receivers are going to get drafted as underclassmen next year, Jeudy will probably be a top ten pick, and when Waddle comes out he'll get drafted high too. 

 

And Oklahoma?  One receiver taken in the first and CeeDee Lamb will be a first round pick next year.  Four ****ing offensive linemen taken in the first half of the draft, specifically his tackles in the second and third rounds and both his guards in the fourth.  A RB drafted in the 6th.  What's the balance for Ohio State?  One wide receiver in the 2nd, one in the 3rd, his guard at the end of the 4th and his tackle at the end of the 6th.  Dobbins was the only other blue chip stud on that offense with Haskins and he wasn't as good this year as he was as a freshman.

 

We can play this game with Clemson and Georgia too.  Hell, we can do it for Stanford and KJ Costello.  So why is Haskins the only one taking **** for playing with NFL talent?  His supporting cast isn't even close to as good as Murray's or Tua's were.

 

Right. 

 

This is why looking at stats in evaluation is folly. They ARE surrounded by NFL talent. But they were still able to utilize it and win games. Watch the timing, the presence, the pop on the throw, the read progressions, the ball placement, the risky throws... That stuff tells you what you need to know about a quarterback.

 

I think as a passer, all variables aside, as a passer, Haskins was the best passer in this years' draft. Murray was touted because he's a damn good passer AND an athlete. Haskins is athletic enough to run this offense, but is a pocket passer type of QB who doesn't rely on his legs. They really are different football players.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Redskins Reparations said:

I hope to God he does not hold out.

 

Why would he be a hold out? Since the rookie wage scale, this is becoming very rare, especially for 1st rd picks. There are very few things to even discuss. The major parts of the contracts are:

 

Guaranteed Money - 1st rd picks are typically all fully guaranteed

Signing Bonus - There can be some discussion here but it's easily negotiated since they have a finite amount of money to work with. 

Offsets (allows teams to recover lost wages if the player is released before 4 yrs and signs elsewhere) - this was a concern when the rookie wage scale came out but it has become non-negotiable. The issue is players would getting paid by two teams without the offsets. Agents tried to get that language removed but teams have stood firm. If there is anything that may cause him to sit out, this would be it. But if so, he is an idiot or/and he has a bad agent. 

Splits - Contract language that allows players to be paid less if they his PUP or IR. This is not an issue for 1st and 2nd rd players. It's being pushed further down to 3rd - which is why the last few years 3rd picks are the last to sign - See Geron Christian last year. He was the last Redskins player to signed. The other ones signed pretty quickly. 

 

There are of course other much smaller parts of the contracts - well beyond my knowledge as I am not an attorney nor do I play one on TV. Just a casual fan with an odd fascination with the NFL contracts.  

 

Where is it being suggested he would hold out and for what? I would be interested to see what the concerns are. 

 

I will say this, if he does find a reason to hold out, it will be a bigger red flag than all the trumped up things people have brought up about him so far. But I just do not see anything that keeps him from being at OTAs and Camp. I believe OTAs for the Redskins start may 20th. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, talking as a fan and not one of the board mavens, I don't get this hesitant "Don't start him until after the tough games" attitude. WTF? Are we protecting his virginity here? He could learn from facing those tough teams, hell, if Haskins plays we might lose to NE? Oh dear! Let me clutch my pearls! I'd rather show some faith in what he brings then send the message that "Well, we like ya but only sooo much right now...." We didn't draft a 1st RD QB to beat the suck, it is to go toe-to-toe with the big dogs, let'em get his scent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

Again, talking as a fan and not one of the board mavens, I don't get this hesitant "Don't start him until after the tough games" attitude. WTF? Are we protecting his virginity here? He could learn from facing those tough teams, hell, if Haskins plays we might lose to NE? Oh dear! Let me clutch my pearls! I'd rather show some faith in what he brings then send the message that "Well, we like ya but only sooo much right now...." We didn't draft a 1st RD QB to beat the suck, it is to go toe-to-toe with the big dogs, let'em get his scent.

 

As for the "tough games " thing, for me that has nothing to do with it. You start him when you think it will help the team the most. Game 1, game 6, game whatever. It has nothing to do with the competition. If he is good he will have to play them eventually. The question is how ready is he?

 

I can only speak for myself but I would like them to sit him the entire year. My reasoning is that he has just one year starting experience. Letting him sit and see how it's done in the NFL for a season will get him better prepared and should provide long term benefits. He will not have the pressure of preparing and taking 1st team snaps. He can play scout team and get a lot of snaps against our D in practice and then have an entire off season to digest the offense and become the long term starter. 

 

I doubt that will happen. Bruce has already been strutting around crowing about his new toy, which means Dan is likely doing the same thing. It's unlikely Jay and the coaches can provide reason enough to sit him. Dan needs the attendance boost. 

 

Now, I do not think they drafted him specifically for that. They were clearly ready to take someone else at 15 since they did not trade up. But as someone else said, when you have a new shiny toy it's hard to put it on the shelf. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

As for the "tough games " thing, for me that has nothing to do with it. You start him when you think it will help the team the most. Game 1, game 6, game whatever. It has nothing to do with the competition. If he is good he will have to play them eventually. The question is how ready is he?

 

I can only speak for myself but I would like them to sit him the entire year. My reasoning is that he has just one year starting experience. Letting him sit and see how it's done in the NFL for a season will get him better prepared and should provide long term benefits. He will not have the pressure of preparing and taking 1st team snaps. He can play scout team and get a lot of snaps against our D in practice and then have an entire off season to digest the offense and become the long term starter. 

 

I doubt that will happen. Bruce has already been strutting around crowing about his new toy, which means Dan is likely doing the same thing. It's unlikely Jay and the coaches can provide reason enough to sit him. Dan needs the attendance boost. 

 

Now, I do not think they drafted him specifically for that. They were clearly ready to take someone else at 15 since they did not trade up. But as someone else said, when you have a new shiny toy it's hard to put it on the shelf. 

 

 

 

And that makes total sense, but again, just my spring fanassery talkin', the kid had a great year at Ohio State and then sits for a year+ before the next meaningful game action? I don't like that arc careerwise/ learningwise. Coming into the draft everyone, EVERYONE, including Guatemalan migrants and grandmas in Tanzania, had written this year off for the Skins, there was a scrum to see who could predict a worse record. Where is the downside? He's shown that he's smart, learns in the system, handles increasing game duties, why not see just  how well he does that? Yeah, I get it, this wouldn't just be another year against college competition, tough titty, you ****y? You bad? 'k, let's see it.................... As long as he doesn't end up on a cart, he'll get a lot more out of playing, even playing to a 6/10, then we would from watching guys play that don't have his skillset or do what he does. To me, the rationale behind sitting a rook for a year is to let him learn the system and get up to speed with adapting his game to what the coach wants. After watching him play, I feel like the burden is on Jay & Co. to build a gameplan around what he does well and running that.

 

For the sake of truth, justice and the American way, there is a very short halflife on my opinion here, I fully expect to have any ephemeral hopes dashed between now and August, and will make no effort to defend this post in months to come. Said it elsewhere, just don't want my buzz harshed................. yet

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...