FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[RonArtest15]

6 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

That’s exactly what I said. That’s your issue. Doesn’t change the fact he’s a bust. Only your acceptance of that fact.

How are you stating an opinion as a fact?  Lol

 

Give the kid TIME. 

[justice98]

59 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Oof, that's a difficult spot.  I want to criticize how our RB's are pass blocking, but that's just a tough one.  Blitzers are shown in both B gaps and both A gaps, so the RB is aligned in more of a fullback spot to handle interior pressure instead of next to the QB in shotgun.  They then bail half the interior blitzers, so Smallwood checks that then releases vertically for his route.

 

But with how often the Bills and Jets blitzed Corners and Safeties on the Edge, we need to switch up how our RB's check for blitzers.  It's a lot more work for the RB, and by the time they check everything, it might be too late for them to really be a viable check down option upon releasing into their route.

 

What I wonder is how much if this is on the QB pre-snap to identify who's coming and understand what needs to happen.  

 

Or just avoid the blitz and extend the play, which he did well there.  

 

Presumably, Gregg W was banking on him being a rookie and not knowing what to do either way.

[SoCalSkins]

1 minute ago, RonArtest15 said:

How are you stating an opinion as a fact?  Lol

 

Give the kid TIME. 

He is a bust. That’s not in dispute. Time will let you accept it. Must be like the grieving process for you. Acceptance takes longer for some. It’s ok man. We are here for you.

[justice98]

19 minutes ago, Stadium-Armory said:

I think what is concerning to the average fan is he looks different than other rookie QBs, in a bad way. Daniel Jones is struggling, but he passes the eye test. You can see in the way he moves around and the decisions he makes, that he is a QB. Haskins on the other hand looks like something else, and if it weren't for his elite arm talent, there would be zero to hang your hat on. I'm not saying he's a bust, but he doesn't pass my eye test and I'm even giving benefit of the doubt for him being a rookie in a ****ty situation. It isn't about that, it is more fundamental. 

 

Jones is struggling to hold on to the ball with the fumbles, but otherwise, you would take his overall performance from a rookie QB all day long.

 

He's on pace for 3000+ yards, 63% completions, 24 TDs, 13 Ints, 88 passer rating.  It's just the fumbling.  

 

But aside from that, I agree with the rest about the eye test.  Haskins just doesnt look in command or like he does anything with confidence.  

[skinny21]

15 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I'd say he has pocket awareness, actually.

 

It's just once he avoids the initial pressure he has no idea what to do. When plays break down he is in a total state of "deer in headlights". And when he does know what to do, he launches a pass with his elbow dipped and feet in the air that misses everyone by 5 yards.

Well... he did hit Harmon (in the posted clip), Quinn for the conversion and McLaurin on the big throw after initial pressure, all good throws... though I haven’t paid attention to the mechanics on those.  So most of his biggest/best plays.  That would seem to disagree with that portion of your post, no?

[KDawg]

Just now, skinny21 said:

Well... he did hit Harmon (in the posted clip), Quinn for the conversion and McLaurin on the big throw after initial pressure, all good throws... though I haven’t paid attention to the mechanics on those.  So most of his biggest/best plays.  That would seem to disagree with that portion of your post, no?

That he made a few good throws? No. 

[PartyPosse]

You know who else looked good right out of the gate and passed the alleged eye test? Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota. Now both are in danger of being jobless next year. What we see the first year from most QBs tend to not be how they end up.

[Stadium-Armory]

1 minute ago, PartyPosse said:

You know who else looked good right out of the gate and passed the alleged eye test? Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota. Now both are in danger of being jobless next year. What we see the first year from most QBs tend to not be how they end up.

 

I guess we'll see. I will be surprised if Haskins starts as many games in the NFL as either of those guys. I hope I'm wrong.

[skinny21]

Just now, KDawg said:

That he made a few good throws? No. 

Had a feeling that’s how you’d respond

So would you agree that at times, he avoids initial pressure, finds an open guy, and then puts the ball on them? 

 

Not trying to nitpick here, your post just indicated that after avoiding initial pressure, either he looks like a deer in the headlights (has no idea what to do), or he misses guys by a wide margin.  Maybe you just meant that’s the result a lot of times, I just didn’t read it that way.  I was just pointing out evidence of a third result, and pointing it out because I saw it as a nice positive to his game.  

[KDawg]

@skinny21 I don’t speak in absolutes in general. I feel that’s such a major mistake. Most things can’t be packed into that neat bundle. 
 

Dwayne flashes. There’s been a few plays I’ve been completely blown away by. But for the most part, he’s been lackluster.

[SoCalSkins]

26 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

You know who else looked good right out of the gate and passed the alleged eye test? Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota. Now both are in danger of being jobless next year. What we see the first year from most QBs tend to not be how they end up.

Not true. Around 80 percent of all QBs drafted in the first round are busts. Some look good early and still bust. The ones that look horrible usually bust too. Most are busts. You usually know what they are going to be: busts.
 

You have so much faith in Dan and Bruce to pick the unicorn when the football people wanted to pass. It’s that type of blind faith that has kept Bruce as the GM and Dan meddling. 
 

 

[dyst]

Based on eye test, there is a strong chance Dwayne is not the type of elite talent this team was hoping to get when he was selected. Its a small sample size for sure.

[PartyPosse]

9 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Not true. Around 80 percent of all QBs drafted in the first round are busts. Some look good early and still bust. The ones that look horrible usually bust too. Most are busts. You usually know what they are going to be: busts.
 

You have so much faith in Dan and Bruce to pick the unicorn when the football people wanted to pass. It’s that type of blind faith that has kept Bruce as the GM and Dan meddling. 
 

 

See? That's what your main issue is. It's not with Dwayne but with Dan and Bruce. IF you had faith in the FO and they drafted Dwayne I guarantee you'd be seeing things from a different perspective. And I know you're already going to respond with "No competent FO would have drafted Dwayne because he's like the Tom Brady of busts" or something outlandish like that.

 

I would also like to add that in the last 4 or 5 years or so i'd say the success to bust ratio for first round QBs has been pretty good. Obviously jury is still out on guys like Darnold, Josh Allen and Trubisky but very few have been absolute busts. Paxton Lynch and maaaybe Bortles fits that category 

[skinny21]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

@skinny21 I don’t speak in absolutes in general. I feel that’s such a major mistake. Most things can’t be packed into that neat bundle. 
 

Dwayne flashes. There’s been a few plays I’ve been completely blown away by. But for the most part, he’s been lackluster.

That’s cool, I figured it was probably something like that.  It just came across as those were the two things that occurred when he did avoid pressure, and I thought his positive plays under pressure were promising.  Your reputation/experience brings a certain clout to what you say, so I just wanted to clear that point up. 
 

I’d add (to the discussion on pressure, not my point above) that when he does initially avoid pressure, there are (often? some?) times another rusher is in his face.  Doesn’t make life easier for a rook.  To your point though, way too often he looks lost and/or his mechanics look terrible.  The good news is I think that’s correctable with experience (though not automatically).    He is going to have to work hard and have support to get that all fixed or at least (hopefully) greatly improved.  

[SoCalSkins]

2 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

See? That's what your main issue is. It's not with Dwayne but with Dan and Bruce. IF you had faith in the FO and they drafted Dwayne I guarantee you'd be seeing things from a different perspective. And I know you're already going to respond with "No competent FO would have drafted Dwayne because he's like the Tom Brady of busts" or something outlandish like that.

 

No all quarterbacks are likely busts until proven otherwise regardless of who picks them. Haskins plain sucks at NFL football man. 
 

I’m way less of a Dan and Bruce  hater than you seem to think.  I threw that out knowing you don’t like Bruce not because I have some blind hate for him. I met him at one of the Redskins rallies for a few minutes and ran into him and Tony Wyllie at the lobby of a hotel the Skins were staying at another time Super nice guy. Obviously not good at his job based on the results but I don’t hate him at all. 

 

 

[PartyPosse]

6 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

I’m way less of a Dan and Bruce  hater than you seem to think.

I find that hard to believe.

[SoCalSkins]

1 minute ago, PartyPosse said:

I find that hard to believe.

Sad but true. I should hate them more but I don’t. 
 

I had season tickets in the late 1990s early 2000s. My drink at the time was grey goose and Red Bull. They had it on the club level. Dan then made a deal with monster to be the exclusive energy drink at FedEx. So Red Bull went away. Like a year later they signed a deal with Daiegio and only served their brands. So Grey goose was gone too. That was probably the most pissed I was at Dan ever. The rest I am more forgiving...

[Warhead36]

34 minutes ago, dyst said:

Based on eye test, there is a strong chance Dwayne is not the type of elite talent this team was hoping to get when he was selected. Its a small sample size for sure.

Yeah I don't think he's elite. The truly elite QBs look the part pretty much from the get go.

 

I think Haskins can be a decent to good QB given the right circumstances, but I'm not sure those circumstances will ever occur here.

[Silvernon]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I don't think he's elite. The truly elite QBs look the part pretty much from the get go.

 

I think Haskins can be a decent to good QB given the right circumstances, but I'm not sure those circumstances will ever occur here.

 

Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers

Drew Brees

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I don't think he's elite. The truly elite QBs look the part pretty much from the get go.

 

I think Haskins can be a decent to good QB given the right circumstances, but I'm not sure those circumstances will ever occur here.

 

You're right, Haskins has started 2 games, and he didn't put up elite stats, therefore he's a bust.

 

This logic is infallible, just check the rookie QB's who put up good stats in their first 2 starts and tell me they're not elite. There are two Hall of Fame QB's who make this list.  Jim Kelly and Warren Moon.  So that clinches it, this is the whose who of elite QB's.

 

I searched for Rookie QB's in their first 2 starts, with at least 30 passes attempted, and a AY/A of at least 8.  Time Frame is any year from 1960-2019.

 

Top 5:

QB A: 65.38%, 466 yards, 6 TD's, 0 Int's, QB Rating of 132.4, AY/A of 11.27

QB B: 58.14%, 482 yards, 5 TD's, 2 Int's, QB Rating of 116.6, AY/A of 11.44

QB C : 64.52%, 266 yards, 2 TD's, 0 Int's, QB Rating of 113.1, AY/A of 9.87

QB D : 77.59%, 488 yards, 3 TD's, 1 Int, QB Rating of 111.8. AY/A of 8.67

QB E: 70.91%, 526 yards, 3 TD's, 1 Int, QB Rating of 111.6, AY/A of 9.84

 

#8 on this list for funsies

QB F: 66.07%, 413 yards, 3 TD's, 0 Int's, QB Rating of 105.7, AY/A of 8.45.

 

We're probably expecting some combo of Favre, Peyton, Brady, Montana, Young, and Elway right?  Well, here's the list!

 

A is Marcus Mariota

B is Greg Cook

C is Kyle Allen

D is Gardner Minshew

E is RG3

F is Andy Dalton

 

Clearly this is the whose who of elite QB's.

[SoCalSkins]

29 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

You're right, Haskins has started 2 games, and he didn't put up elite stats, therefore he's a bust.

 

 

Correct. He is undoubtedly a bust. Beyond his putrid play there are many other factors including lack of leadership skills, inability to grasp the play calling, inability to dissect defenses in practice where his teammates purposely avoid intercepting him, general disinterest on the sidelines and his belief that he has arrived and will end up like Brady or Rodgers.

 

29 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

This logic is infallible, just check the rookie QB's who put up good stats in their first 2 starts and tell me they're not elite. There are two Hall of Fame QB's who make this list.  Jim Kelly and Warren Moon.  So that clinches it, this is the whose who of elite QB's.

 

The inverse is not true. You are likely to be a bust even if you play lights out your first 2 games. No one is claiming the inverse. Yet that's the strawman you created.

 

BTW, Warren Moon started his career in the CFL for 5 years before becoming an Oiler. Jim Kelly played 2 years in the USFL prior to joining the Bills. 

 

 

[CowboyKillerz]

The next poster who types bust should take a self imposed ban. This forum is unreadable with the same post reiterated every 5 mins. You want a golden star? Stfu already geezus Christ! You are not "right" you are not a qb guru... And as of now you arent even rooting for your team; rather against them and hang on only negatives. Haskins faced a stout D and the line/ rbs did little to protect- he looked lost at times and  also flashed. The later being something we ALL should want to see. If anyone thought this 1 year ncaa starter would step foot on the field vs the nyj D and break records- oh wait, not a single person said anyhting close to that. Nor were those the expectations. He is raw. And is trying to build on each week. Ya, the floor is below the basement, but there IS positives. God I wish the pukes gave up on Aikman as fast as this fan base is with DH... Maybe they dont dominate the majority of the 90s. :puke:

 

Progress. Each week. Kevin please be more creative. Calli please allow this. Lets work on blocking calls at the line... Lets improve that. Lets see more of that 40 yard dime to McScoarchn.. Lets see more dump offs to Guice.. Lets attack wraknesses. 

 

Harmon and Guice had some nice plays- I like that.  

 

Im even ok with the L... That much closer to Young! 

 

Thanks to the posters who have been level headed and analytical. The good the bad and the ugly. Thoughtful breakdowns are a good read for me... The smear campaign is so tiresome though, and any valid points lost in the back and forth about NOTHING.

*All the hurt feelings... Go pollute social media with that mess SOB

[Thinking Skins]

5 minutes ago, CowboyKillerz said:

This forum is unreadable with the same post reiterated every 5 mins. You want a golden star? Stfu already geezus Christ! You are not "right" you are not a qb guru...

I'm convinced this is purely a skit. I'm still debating whether its for a blog, a radio show, a draft thing or just to rile up ES in a time of despair. 

 

Whats more frustrating is that the same back and forths keep coming. People say something they like and it doesn't matter because he's a bust. Its like Doc Walker and his whole big boys type argument.

Caller: We just won the game

Doc: But tell me about the big boys

Caller: I'm not sure what you mean, we ran well and passed well

Doc: But did the big boys dominate? 

Caller: I guess we controlled the line of scrimmage to run well

Doc; Don't tell me something like that. I want to know what the big boys did, the hyenas, the ones you don't take home to momma, tell me about the fight in the alleyway after the game was over with. 

 

Of course I just made all this up because we haven't won a game in a long time, and a game where we ran and passed well, that has to be back to the magical RG3 year of 2012. I think it was against Philly. But I can imagine this conversation happening. And that's how I read so many of these 'bust' comments. They're getting their post count up and trying to destroy any optimism this fan base may have for Haskins. Maybe its a Michigan fan or Maryland alum who was mad at him for going to OSU.

 

But I agree that its so unreadable. I try to ignore the users, but then people respond and I still wind up having to see the conversation. 

[mistertim]

6 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

 

Correct. He is undoubtedly a bust. Beyond his putrid play there are many other factors including lack of leadership skills, inability to grasp the play calling, inability to dissect defenses in practice where his teammates purposely avoid intercepting him, general disinterest on the sidelines and his belief that he has arrived and will end up like Brady or Rodgers.

 

 

Can you please make some recordings of all this stuff? However you're managing to be in the locker room, huddle, film room, and on the practice field with Haskins at pretty much all times, it's very impressive. 

 

 

Just a warning though...remember that being an unregistered animagus is illegal. So if you're transforming into a bee or something in order to do all of this, you should probably keep it to yourself.  

[SoCalSkins]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Can you please make some recordings of all this stuff? However you're managing to be in the locker room, huddle, film room, and on the practice field with Haskins at pretty much all times, it's very impressive. 

 

 

Just a warning though...remember that being an unregistered animagus is illegal. So if you're transforming into a bee or something in order to do all of this, you should probably keep it to yourself.  

I was just as spot on with Jason Campbell. In fact you argued with me for years. You were probably amongst the biggest kool aid drinkers then. So before even attempting to disparage me on a different topic, please acknowledge your complete and utter humiliation before you embarrass yourself again. Thanks!