FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[FrFan]

 

[Thinking Skins]

 

[CowboyKillerz]

@volsmet

Thanks for digging all of that up! Good read and pretty intellectual insights! 

I think you made some SOLID observations... Its my hope that at Redskins park they are seeing and working on all the little (BIG) things- that part is the scary unknown.

 

As for the mechanics.. He is young AF, and I believe can be developed with the right coach(s). Since golf is my area of expertise I'll use Tiger- the kid had an ungodly amount of raw talent- even won a ton. But his mechanics early weren't sound and it was kind of a crap shoot. He got away with just pounding it and when the game evolved he tore down his swing (multiple times mind you) to get better. Surgeries and TMZs aside... My point is, he can keep his raw talent and make big changes to be successful. Those screaming his cooked without a single start are just angry (expecting a probowl rookie qb is just silly anyway)- he can build a better foundation; not reverting to poor habits under duress will be the key 

[SkinsFTW]

12 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

.....another example of Dan screwing up this team and why we will forever suck.

 

Naa Bro!!

 

The guys around here have been telling me for years now that Snyder doesn't get involved with making decisions anymore!!!

 

All he wants is to win SBs!!! That's why he brought in Bruce Allen, the guy who carries on the bloodline of a head coach who won some games for the Redskins back in the 70s by trading away draft picks for other teams old timers.

 

We should be stacking up Lombardi trophies any decade now!

[Wildbunny]

2 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

Peterson is incredible. In the same tweet he denies the shot to Haskins and then is doubling down on it.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I didn’t find AP’s response here glaringly positive about where Dwayne is to this point.  Nor does it cover what Hall said about dudes saying he was terrible in practice to the extent defenders were assisting him in getting completions.

 

I’m not on the ‘this dude is trash and will never be good’ bandwagon at all.  I just didn’t find AP’s response to clear any of the smoke.

[goskins10]

7 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

He doesn’t watch film. He doesn’t believe he makes mistakes. He’s a bust. All the optimism, rainbows and puppies won’t change that undeniable fact...

 

I have seen video of him doing intense film breakdown and pointing out his own mistakes. So those two are not true. And while you may be certain yourself and hell may even be right about him being a bust, it is anything but a "fact" at this point. So that's 0-3. 

 

Also, you have misquoted him several times, most recently called out by @mistertim. Instead of at least acknowledging the yes, you misquoted to fit your own narrative of who you think Haskins is, you attack the people who called you out in an attempt to cast them as irrelevant. Nothing wrong with having a strong opinion. There is plenty wrong with misquoting facts while simultaneously making up your own facts. 

 

The bottom line on Haskins is it's entirely too early to definitively determine what he is or is not going to be in the NFL no matter what you saw in college. That is why evaluating QBs is such a crap shoot, even more than any other position. He needs playing time and intense development time. Either he picks it up and makes good on his talent potential or he doesn't. But to write him off now is reckless.

 

Below is the stat line of HOF QB (with multiple SB rings) after their first 4 gms - keep in mind they were drafted to be the starter, got all the starter reps during the off-season and was prepared from the day they were drafted to be the day one starter. I lived in the city where this guy was drafted and there were a bunch of people that just like you decided they knew all they needed to know about him and had been so pissed their team drafted him instead of another QB they were ready to change teams. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Would you take Chase Young over both Tua and Burrow? No matter how poorly Haskins played for the rest of the season (if they even let him play)? I might be on board with that either way too; Young is just THAT good. But it would be a tough call if Tua or Burrow were sitting in our laps and Haskins hadn't improved at all. IMO Tua is a better prospect than Murray but his injury concerns are legit. I really like what I've seen from Burrow but while he has plenty of playing time, he's still a bit of a one year wonder from a production standpoint. 

 

I think I'd take Young but tough call for me over Tua.  Young is the best defensive prospect I've watched in eons.  I think he can transform the defense. 

 

Hoffman (who isn't always right but often is) said yesterday that from what he can tell taking a QB in the next draft is off the table.  He said Dan-Bruce are too vested in Haskins.  Sheehan in his last podcast said the man crush on Haskins before the draft wasn't just Dan but he learned it was also Bruce that was really crushing on Haskins, too and perhaps in an even bigger way than Dan.  So if you add it together, I am doubting Tua or Burrow will be in the mix.  

 

As for Haskins, I vacillated on him pre-draft but when I delved deeper right before the draft I decided I didn't want him.  Heck I outright lobbied against them taking him on the draft thread on draft day.   And I saw some of Haskins' rawness first hand in training camp.  He threw plenty of picks among other things.  It wouldn't shock me at all if we added him to the pile of busts we've had at this position.  But it's premature IMO to have anything close to a verdict. 

 

I am hardcore about giving young Qbs a chance, time and a sample size to show what they got.  Haskins has raw arm talent.  His struggles in his limited spots thus far don't really bother me.  I admit the only thing that bothers me some is the impression I had about Haskins before the draft and in the off season was his intangibles were through the roof and he worked like crazy.  So I felt that my concerns about his play might be offset by him working through all of that.   But there is a mixed message on that front now which wasn't the case previously.  

 

Some of the narratives leaking from Redskins Park or even some flat out statements from the coaches have alluded to Haskins wasn't really going to town in preparing and working but now he's started to -- that part bothers me because part of my optimism about Haskins is that he will work his way to success.   I gather the now he's going to town is good.  But otherwise it reminds me a little about the narrative of Ryan Anderson we've gotten at different times where we got hey now he's going to town but wasn't before -- in Anderson's case it was about getting in shape.   And maybe all of that is overstated and overdramatized so I take the criticism too with a grain of salt. 

 

So in summary I am even more confused about Haskins now than I was before.  And its not that I don't believe that he has the intangibles but there is enough on that front where I have some doubt planted which I didn't have before.    As I've said before from what I've witnessed and most have said, he's a really cool dude.  Nice guy.  Likable.   Easy to root for. I am miles away from throwing the towel on the dude.  I'd like to see him play.  Give him 2 weeks of practice before the Jets game and let it fly.  

[ggarriso]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

The bottom line on Haskins is it's entirely too early to definitively determine what he is or is not going to be in the NFL no matter what you saw in college. That is why evaluating QBs is such a crap shoot, even more than any other position. He needs playing time and intense development time. Either he picks it up and makes good on his talent potential or he doesn't. But to write him off now is reckless.

 

I think this is what rubs this situation SO raw for many of us, with a good talent evaluation team you can hedge your bets and make it a bit less of a crap shoot.  By all accounts, and I believe there is something to this narrative, the football talent team did not want him at the position we took him but were overruled by this disaster of a ownership team because they developed feelings for him because he didn't bully Danny's son or something?  It was like the final straw in the narrative that things will never change here.  

 

[KDawg]

9 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

Will Grier may end up being nice. You’ll hit 99.9% if you bet on QBs to stink, that’s why I signed back on to reply in this thread, it’s nauseating seeing people pound their chest because someone struggled... particularly when none of those people pointed out the flaws in ..where he was.. before the season. How many analysts said he dropped his elbow/arm? How many said he’d turn the ball over? How many said he’d take sacks? How many said he’d struggle with the zone defense he threw his int into? I did. That’s the list. He needs time, nobody here knows who he may become, but he needs reps ..to figure out how to make throws...  into nfl windows ... with his mechanics. 
 

In this thread I asked the ESperts to watch the Nebraska game & share what they saw... nobody saw anything real, but I shared that I was trying to point how his struggle to process the different zones Neb was falling into; by the time DH played Michigan & Washington, he was moving through things much more quickly. He improved as he played. No one was harder on him than I was, no one pointed out the precise things he’d struggle with other than myself... and it’s beyond sickening to see him get ripped by pompous charlatans before he’s had a chance to see & attempt to adjust to the speed of the game at this level. He got better in college; if the Haskins that played Neb, had played Washington, OSU would have lost by 50. He’s raw — we won’t know if he can play until he’s .... 🤔 ... played. You can’t count a guy out when he’s seen 50 snaps at this speed... on the worst team in the league. 
 

DH has 1/9th of his cap on the IR & 15 starts ago he was playing Georgetown Prep. He needs to play. The end.

 

 

I mean, to be fair, I had my reservations due to his mechanics in general. But ultimately I got sold on his upside. I anticipated growing pains, but not to the point where after an off-season and 8 weeks that he’d show no marked improvement. 

 

His issue so far is the stuff that we couldn’t hear: from the interviews, etc. he’s struggling with the mental aspect. 
 

I agree, though. He needs to play. Period. He could be a guy that needs game time to thrive and the Skins have to give that to him at this point. If they don’t they have done him AND the franchise incredibly wrong. 
 

Not playing him at this point is setting him up to fail in my opinion. And thus the franchise. 
 

But he still has ALL of the attributes that we drafted him for. So let’s see how he does. Agreed 100%.

[Llevron]

Honestly is sounds like he doesn’t want to be here and we don’t want him to be here

[Thinking Skins]

2 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

Peterson is incredible. In the same tweet he denies the shot to Haskins and then is doubling down on it.

 

 

True, but just like the Haskins quotes, people are taking what they want from it. Even the Hall quote makes no sense to me because practice isn't like a real game where an int means the offense leaves the field, they just run the play again. But when if it's true, then what? It's just confirmation of what we knew, he needs more reps and more time. 

 

The main stories coming out about him before the draft was his love for film breakdown and his work ethic, in addition to his smarts. So I'm hella biased when I see those three things in particular questioned because they are the three things that historically have been questioned about EVERY Black QB and they're one of the top reasons why there was such a push to move Black players from QB to things like WR or RB. 

 

So what did AP mean by the word "commitment"? I don't know, but he also says it's true about every other young player in the league. 

 

But i still stand by my analysis above. Dude has played in two games, and led us to scoring drives in both games, had some good completions and some bad I completions, and some ugly ints. But he was ranked on some draft boards as the top QB prospect in the draft for a reason. 

 

I'm just letting it play out. 

[Thinking Skins]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theundefeated.com/features/how-long-will-black-qbs-have-to-endure-racist-double-standards/amp/

 

 

Unlike the rest of players in the largely black locker room, African American quarterbacks are on an island.

“They don’t have black quarterback coaches, black coordinators or GMs [general managers],’’ Avery said. “And those are the people who give them the opportunities.”

 

 

 

During the quarterback conference last spring, Watson said he was pigeonholed and it cost him a higher position in the NFL draft because he was profiled. “He’s a dual threat, so he can’t read coverages; he can’t read defenses, he can’t be accurate,” Watson said.

“I love sitting in the pocket. I love making those decisions,’’ Watson added. “Anyone asks me if I’d rather run for a touchdown or throw, I’m going to choose pass. But sometimes I feel like I get labeled as a running quarterback a lot more than passing.”

 

 

 

In a 2017 interview with The Buffalo News, Tyrod Taylor, who was the Bills’ starting quarterback, was asked if he felt black quarterbacks were held to a higher standard. Taylor said, “It’s always going to be twice as bad just because of who I am — an African American quarterback.

“Look across the league, man. We’re held to a certain standard. We almost have to be perfect.”

Taylor was drafted by the Baltimore Ravens, signed with the Bills as a free agent, started, then made the Pro Bowl and helped the Bills clinch their first playoff berth in 17 years. He was subsequently traded to Cleveland in 2018 and started three games before being injured and replaced by Baker Mayfield.

 

 

 

Watson had made a poor decision that contributed to a Texans loss. In a Facebook post that became public, Lynn Redden, the superintendent of the Onalaska school district north of Houston, wrote, “When you need precision decision making you can’t count on a black quarterback.”

“For him to say something like that let people know that, even though we have so many black quarterbacks doing all these great things, we’ve made strides but we haven’t made enough,” Avery said.

 

[Thinking Skins]

One of the main reasons I posted the article above is because of you look at the Watson narrative, it's been a complete 180 in terms of his smarts. In college and the draft, he wasn't smart enough. Then as a rookie he was athletic but not smart, now there are post game interviews where he's telling you everything about the defense and how he broke it down to create a play. But he was called not smart. Lol at this thread with that in mind. That's exactly what's happening to Haskins. It's a continuing Bayside in this league. 

 

Heck, even the mechanics argument is moot to me because when with his mechanics off, Haskins is getting catchable balls out there. That ball to AP was beauty in my eyes because he got it past the defender, and while he shouldn't rely on that throw, he can and did make it. But he's criticized because other qbs can't make that throw? 

[SoCalSkins]

2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

I have seen video of him doing intense film breakdown and pointing out his own mistakes. So those two are not true. And while you may be certain yourself and hell may even be right about him being a bust, it is anything but a "fact" at this point. So that's 0-3. 

 

Also, you have misquoted him several times, most recently called out by @mistertim. Instead of at least acknowledging the yes, you misquoted to fit your own narrative of who you think Haskins is, you attack the people who called you out in an attempt to cast them as irrelevant. Nothing wrong with having a strong opinion. There is plenty wrong with misquoting facts while simultaneously making up your own facts. 

 

The bottom line on Haskins is it's entirely too early to definitively determine what he is or is not going to be in the NFL no matter what you saw in college. That is why evaluating QBs is such a crap shoot, even more than any other position. He needs playing time and intense development time. Either he picks it up and makes good on his talent potential or he doesn't. But to write him off now is reckless.

 

 

I have video of him throwing interceptions in 20% of all his throws as a Redskin. I also have video of him looking unengaged and disinterested on the sideline without a tablet and without any interaction with coaches.

 

I have misquoted nothing. The dude is a loser, entitled, lacks determination and is a lost cause. He compared himself to Brady, Brees and Rodgers and he stated he thinks he’s a future hall of famer.

 

No it’s not too early to call him a bust. He has proven every single person correct who has labeled him that.

 

Anyone saying he can develop, he needs playing  time or any other excuse for him is based on nothing but wishful thinking. He has shown no development. He has shown no interest in putting in the work. Zero intellectual curiosity on the sidelines. Development and time only matter when there is participation and a desire to do the work. He doesn’t have it. He thinks he’s already arrived and everyone is just against him. It’s the worst possible attitude to have as an NFL quarterback. 

 

The dude is a bust and will always be a bust. You don’t like that fact? Too bad. Because it’s a fact. Write it in ink and stone. The ship on his career has sailed....

[goskins10]

7 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

I have video of him throwing interceptions in 20% of all his throws as a Redskin. I also have video of him looking unengaged and disinterested on the sideline without a tablet and without any interaction with coaches.

 

I have misquoted nothing. The dude is a loser, entitled, lacks determination and is a lost cause. He compared himself to Brady, Brees and Rodgers and he stated he thinks he’s a future hall of famer.

 

No it’s not too early to call him a bust. He has proven every single person correct who has labeled him that.

 

Anyone saying he can develop, he needs playing  time or any other excuse for him is based on nothing but wishful thinking. He has shown no development. He has shown no interest in putting in the work. Zero intellectual curiosity on the sidelines. Development and time only matter when there is participation and a desire to do the work. He doesn’t have it. He thinks he’s already arrived and everyone is just against him. It’s the worst possible attitude to have as an NFL quarterback. 

 

The dude is a bust and will always be a bust. You don’t like that fact? Too bad. Because it’s a fact. Write it in ink and stone. The ship on his career has sailed....

 

The bold is incorrect. Period. No matter how many times you say otherwise will not change that actual facts. You are connecting dots that are not there to fit your narrative. The entire thing is your opinion, which is fine and is exactly what forums are for. But stating they are an absolute fact is bull**** and you will get called on it every time. 

 

Last but not least, there is nothing wishful thinking about him getting playing time. Let's get this out of the way - I didn't want him at any round. I wanted them to go QB in 2020 and it's in writing before the draft. Was not thrilled when they did draft him. But he is here and the idea has grown on me - only in so much as it helps the team the most if he succeeds.. So far we see what many of us knew, he is a project. But he has potential. The only way to find out if he can realize that potential is for him to play. It's absolutely stupid as hell to have him sit the rest of the season either as a throw in the towel or the assumption they just need to ride this season out and get him ready for next year - which is what I believe they think they will do and could not be the worst case scenario. Let him know he is playing for his NFL career and see if it lights a fire or he craps out.  

 

Honestly, either way I could care less. But if he makes it, again, this is actually the best case scenario. It opens what they can do with what will surely be at least a top 5 pick if not higher. 

[benskins26]

 

call me crazy, but I read this as a shot at Peterson. 
 

you can’t make this **** up. This franchise man. 

[SoCalSkins]

He thinks he knows more than a future hall of fame teammate trying to stand up for him. The arrogance, entitlement and detachment from reality is pretty disturbing.

[benskins26]

nm

[volsmet]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

I mean, to be fair, I had my reservations due to his mechanics in general. But ultimately I got sold on his upside. I anticipated growing pains, but not to the point where after an off-season and 8 weeks that he’d show no marked improvement. 

 

His issue so far is the stuff that we couldn’t hear: from the interviews, etc. he’s struggling with the mental aspect. 
 

I agree, though. He needs to play. Period. He could be a guy that needs game time to thrive and the Skins have to give that to him at this point. If they don’t they have done him AND the franchise incredibly wrong. 
 

Not playing him at this point is setting him up to fail in my opinion. And thus the franchise. 
 

But he still has ALL of the attributes that we drafted him for. So let’s see how he does. Agreed 100%.

I know *several shared doubts about him, and you were one, but those who are congratulating themselves on being right about him ... shared nothing that backs up the brilliant foresight they claimed to have. Seeing him trashed on this board by people who don’t know anything is nauseating. The all knowing ESperts rooting for a young guy to fail... it becomes embarrassing. People so invested in a desire to tell the internet they were right about something they never said a word about; people unwilling to have a conversation - & just as unwilling to stop repeating their vitriol. DH is already more successful than 99.9% will ever be, but still, many seem to feel he’s owed zero respect.

 

It’s weird being amongst Redskins fans that aren’t rooting for DH to shred everyone he plays... but you just know, many here, are hoping his next pass is an INT — it’s unbelievable.

 

 

4 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

 

I have misquoted nothing. The dude is a loser, entitled, lacks determination and is a lost cause. He compared himself to Brady, Brees and Rodgers and he stated he thinks he’s a future hall of famer.

 

No it’s not too early to call him a bust. He has proven every single person correct who has labeled him that.

 

 

 
Warning: reality may be farther away than it appears. 

[Heisenberg]

Bottom line is that, regardless of whether he turns out to be a huge bust or a franchise QB, since draft night Dwayne Haskins has been incredibly annoying.

 

"League done messed up" - right.

[KDawg]

The tweet that Haskins sent to AP can be construed in two ways...

 

1) he’s talking to the media and using AP’s tweet as his platform.

 

2) He’s saying that to AP.

 

its very likely the first, but the fact that it could be both is yet another snafu from him.

 

@Heisenberg put it in a wonderful way above...

[benskins26]

3 minutes ago, Heisenberg said:

Bottom line is that, regardless of whether he turns out to be a huge bust or a franchise QB, since draft night Dwayne Haskins has been incredibly annoying.

 

"League done messed up" - right.

compare him to Guice. Guice May never do anything with us. But despite that, fans love him. He’s done a great job with that.

haskins should take a page from him. Cause he’s doing the opposite. 

[Wildbunny]

19 minutes ago, benskins26 said:

compare him to Guice. Guice May never do anything with us. But despite that, fans love him. He’s done a great job with that.

haskins should take a page from him. Cause he’s doing the opposite. 

Colt Brennan was even better at this game

[volsmet]

28 minutes ago, Heisenberg said:

Bottom line is that, regardless of whether he turns out to be a huge bust or a franchise QB, since draft night Dwayne Haskins has been incredibly annoying.

 

"League done messed up" - right.

The first time he’s struggled, he’s definitely experiencing some growing pains on, and off, the field. He’s in an overwhelming situation & surrounded by dysfunction, there are few things about this franchise that aren’t annoying ... even the way we mix out Gatorade is annoying. 🤨