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Welcome to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

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39 minutes ago, wit33 said:

I truly don’t say this to be condescending, but I’m fascinated with the fan who has the ability with conviction to say a player is going suck or declare a bad pick (like Haskins). 
 

So many unknown variables related to a player succeeding early on— making it incredibly difficult to speculate or project. 
 

How does one do this? 

 

Yeah that's sort of where I am at.  Judging a young QB especially a college QB transitioning to the NFL is extremely hard for even seasoned scouts.  We aren't watching practice, etc so what's our sample size where we can came at it with complete conviction?

 

This isn't me coming down on anyone with an opinion on Haskins.  Heck that's what the board is about -- throw your opinion out there and debate.  But it's hard for me to see anyone to have an opinion with absolute conviction, negative or positive.

 

Personally, I am all over the place about Haskins the player.  but I definitely like the dude as a person and got my fingers crossed big time that he's the right guy as to being franchise material.  What compounds my uncertainty are the reports about him which give me an impression there is a divide in the building about him.  I don't obviously know if that's the case or not but if it is I'd like them to settle it in that building before the 2020 draft. 

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Most of those who claim they watch hours of film tape really just read twitter and echo the sentiments of those who actually did watch hours of film tape.

 

and I’ve said this before, unless it’s your job, I wouldn’t be bragging about spending my free time watching hours of tape of collegiate players. 

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4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Personally, I am all over the place about Haskins the player.  but I definitely like the dude as a person and got my fingers crossed big time that he's the right guy as to being franchise material.  What compounds my uncertainty are the reports about him which give me an impression there is a divide in the building about him.  I don't obviously know if that's the case or not but if it is I'd like them to settle it in that building before the 2020 draft. 

 

This reminds me of a political debate I have been having with my fiance, but your ability to understand that you may not know it all is what makes your opinion valuable to me. You and a few others others. 

 

Something about that makes you seem less biased and I appreciate that. Thats to all of you this applies to. 

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My concern with Haskins has little with what I’ve seen from him on the field. I think he’s looked fine. I’m concerned that two coaches have felt the need to constantly emphasize how far away he is from being a starter despite the season being over. That is very concerning. Especially when the team’s starting QBs are putting out sub replacement level performances. If he is truly that far away (1-2 years away) that they aren’t even comfortable playing him in meaningless games, he shouldn’t have been drafted 15. Add the fact that he’s surrounded by the team’s trademark dysfunction and I get REALLY nervous. 
 

Not saying he’s a bust but it is certainly alarming. 

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The irony coming into the season is that I really though mobility and athleticism may be the weakest skillset that Dwayne brings to the table. But he has been far more mobile the college tape shows.

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2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This isn't me coming down on anyone with an opinion on Haskins.  Heck that's what the board is about -- throw your opinion out there and debate.  But it's hard for me to see anyone to have an opinion with absolute conviction, negative or positive.

 

Agreed. Love reading opinions, even the extreme ones (We all have our moments on here). I’m genuinely fascinated by those that can reach a steadfast conclusion in short time lol

 

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Personally, I am all over the place about Haskins the player.  but I definitely like the dude as a person and got my fingers crossed big time that he's the right guy as to being franchise material.  What compounds my uncertainty are the reports about him which give me an impression there is a divide in the building about him.  I don't know obviously know if that's the case or not but if it is I'd like them to settle it in that building before the 2020 draft. 

 

It’s difficult to not be somewhat all over the place with what we’ve been able to watch with him in pre season and a 1 half of season football. 
 

What isn’t a negotiable is work ethic behind the scenes (as you’ve noted many times). I remember reading something about him not being the hardest worker to date, but can’t place where. 


I know you’re on top of it all: have you heard this or remember who reported this?

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2 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Most of those who claim they watch hours of film tape really just read twitter and echo the sentiments of those who actually did watch hours of film tape.

 

and I’ve said this before, unless it’s your job, I wouldn’t be bragging about spending my free time watching hours of tape of collegiate players. 

 

Not sure it's bragging. There are many people, myself included that do watch a lot of video on college players because we do a mock draft. It's a hobby. It's something we enjoy. It makes me more aware of the college players coming out. And I rally enjoy our mock draft. It's really fun to compare your results to the pros. 

 

Now i will be the first to admit I certainly do not have the same skill as someone who is being paid to do it. But I am not horrible at it either. I can see trends and notice weaknesses and strengths. However, there are few on here that I would put their skill at watching players against many in the NFL. I can show you 4 to 5 yrs of actual results of players to provide that proof. Guys that routinely pick 4 to 7 round picks that end up making huge contributions in the NFL. It's more than coincidence. 

 

Just because it's not your thing don't need to talk down to others that enjoy it. 

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3 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

My concern with Haskins has little with what I’ve seen from him on the field. I think he’s looked fine. I’m concerned that two coaches have felt the need to constantly emphasize how far away he is from being a starter despite the season being over. That is very concerning. Especially when the team’s starting QBs are putting out sub replacement level performances. If he is truly that far away (1-2 years away) that they aren’t even comfortable playing him in meaningless games, he shouldn’t have been drafted 15. Add the fact that he’s surrounded by the team’s trademark dysfunction and I get REALLY nervous. 
 

Not saying he’s a bust but it is certainly alarming. 

 

Mahomes sat most of his rookie season behind Alex Smith; and that was with a great supporting cast. Haskins isnt going out there until atleast after the bye.

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2 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

My concern with Haskins has little with what I’ve seen from him on the field. I think he’s looked fine. I’m concerned that two coaches have felt the need to constantly emphasize how far away he is from being a starter despite the season being over. That is very concerning. Especially when the team’s starting QBs are putting out sub replacement level performances. If he is truly that far away (1-2 years away) that they aren’t even comfortable playing him in meaningless games, he shouldn’t have been drafted 15. Add the fact that he’s surrounded by the team’s trademark dysfunction and I get REALLY nervous. 
 

Not saying he’s a bust but it is certainly alarming. 


Watching the Miami game has led me to speculate that the renewed vision of running the football and remaining in manageable situations is part of process to provide Haskins a healthy on field situation to take over. 
 

This season he will be a smaller piece connected to the engine (identity) with expectation for him to become a huge piece, if not the engine itself later on. 

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9 minutes ago, wit33 said:


Watching the Miami game has led me to speculate that the renewed vision of running the football and remaining in manageable situations is part of process to provide Haskins a healthy on field situation to take over. 
 

This season he will be a smaller piece connected to the engine (identity) with expectation for him to become a huge piece, if not the engine itself later on. 

My thing is that he’s going to make mistakes. He’s going to throw picks. Why not get them out now? When the season is over? 
 

i hate the idea of him going into 2020 with little experience. 
 

 

17 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

Mahomes sat most of his rookie season behind Alex Smith; and that was with a great supporting cast. Haskins isnt going out there until atleast after the bye.


The Chiefs hit the ground running that year. If they started 0-5, Mahomes would have played.

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23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah that's sort of where I am at.  Judging a young QB especially a college QB transitioning to the NFL is extremely hard for even seasoned scouts.  We aren't watching practice, etc so what's our sample size where we can came at it with complete conviction?

 

This isn't me coming down on anyone with an opinion on Haskins.  Heck that's what the board is about -- throw your opinion out there and debate.  But it's hard for me to see anyone to have an opinion with absolute conviction, negative or positive.

 

Personally, I am all over the place about Haskins the player.  but I definitely like the dude as a person and got my fingers crossed big time that he's the right guy as to being franchise material.  What compounds my uncertainty are the reports about him which give me an impression there is a divide in the building about him.  I don't obviously know if that's the case or not but if it is I'd like them to settle it in that building before the 2020 draft. 


Conviction supported by competent thought/analysis is a beautiful thing, it’s the dismissal of those who offer the same on the other side that is unique to these forums. I didn’t like a couple QBs in this draft at all, but I’d go back & watch them, point some things out, and continue the conversation... we don’t know what we miss, obviously, so looking back through things, when met with considerations that oppose your own, is simply an opportunity to check your own evaluation for weaknesses. 
 

People conflate themselves with their most recent opinions, people defend opinions on prospects as if they define who they are — neglecting to gain from the fact that we’ve all changed our opinions on a million things & we’ll change our opinions on a million more. We’ve seen every expert on every platform change their opinion of the Daniel Jones pick ... and he hasn’t actually done anything yet. They had conviction about him being awful ... only to have conviction about him being a future stud ... 2 months later. Watching that should remind us that we’re all looking at data far too limited to completely dismiss anyone else’s interpretation of it.
 

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41 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Most of those who claim they watch hours of film tape really just read twitter and echo the sentiments of those who actually did watch hours of film tape.

 

and I’ve said this before, unless it’s your job, I wouldn’t be bragging about spending my free time watching hours of tape of collegiate players. 

 

Common interests are a key element to any strong community. I love it when people watch anything they can get their eyes on.

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1 hour ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

My concern with Haskins has little with what I’ve seen from him on the field. I think he’s looked fine. I’m concerned that two coaches have felt the need to constantly emphasize how far away he is from being a starter despite the season being over. That is very concerning. Especially when the team’s starting QBs are putting out sub replacement level performances. If he is truly that far away (1-2 years away) that they aren’t even comfortable playing him in meaningless games, he shouldn’t have been drafted 15. Add the fact that he’s surrounded by the team’s trademark dysfunction and I get REALLY nervous. 
 

Not saying he’s a bust but it is certainly alarming. 

 

I don't know a thing about his development, but also think we have to take everything with a grain of salt. 

 

One coach was in a win-or-get-fired hotseat right from opening day. The other guy for sure wanted to start his tenure off with a win. Even if the guys who played ahead of Haskins were clearly flawed, they might have been trusted a little more not to make that one back-breaking mistake. 

 

I'll join you in being concerned if we are 1-7 or so and he's not starting. At that point, it would be extremely alarming!

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53 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

My concern with Haskins has little with what I’ve seen from him on the field. I think he’s looked fine. I’m concerned that two coaches have felt the need to constantly emphasize how far away he is from being a starter despite the season being over. That is very concerning.

 

 

I'm not thinking the coaches and players look at the season the same way fans do. So they're not telling themselves and each other "The season is over so it no longer matters if we start the best 22 players." They are most likely only concentrating on the next game, as cliche as that sounds, and not the entirety of the season. Back in 2012 I remember Shanahan getting blasted in the press for saying, after going 3-6, something like it was time to see who wanted to still be on the team next year. It sounded like he was saying the season was over and he was gonna spend the rest of the year evaluating who to keep and who to let go once the season was officially over...like treating it as a 7-game preseason or something. I wasn't visiting ES during that season but it wouldn't surprise me if fans felt the same way as the media and blasted Shanny as well.

 

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Do you or someone you know suffer from premature evaluation?

Get help right away. Call 1-800-386-2277.  That's 1-800-DUMBASS. Call now. Sensible posters are standing by....

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8 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

Do you or someone you know suffer from premature evaluation?

Get help right away. Call 1-800-386-2277.  That's 1-800-DUMBASS. Call now. Sensible posters are standing by....

 

 

 

problems-200.jpg

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1 hour ago, volsmet said:


Conviction supported by competent thought/analysis is a beautiful thing, it’s the dismissal of those who offer the same on the other side that is unique to these forums. I didn’t like a couple QBs in this draft at all, but I’d go back & watch them, point some things out, and continue the conversation... we don’t know what we miss, obviously, so looking back through things, when met with considerations that oppose your own, is simply an opportunity to check your own evaluation for weaknesses. 
 

People conflate themselves with their most recent opinions, people defend opinions on prospects as if they define who they are — neglecting to gain from the fact that we’ve all changed our opinions on a million things & we’ll change our opinions on a million more. We’ve seen every expert on every platform change their opinion of the Daniel Jones pick ... and he hasn’t actually done anything yet. They had conviction about him being awful ... only to have conviction about him being a future stud ... 2 months later. Watching that should remind us that we’re all looking at data far too limited to completely dismiss anyone else’s interpretation of it.
 

 

Agree except that it seems hard to land on a definitive conviction on a QB with a really short sample size.  I've probably put in as much time as anyone on Haskins.  I watched 5 of his games twice.  And watched 5 live practices in camp.   I have an opinion about him and I've shared it.   And agree its a moving target.  I can't really land on an opinion with Haskins with total conviction because I am not watching practice now and we haven't really seen him in real games aside from that small sample against the Giants.  I don't love what the beat guys have said they are hearing though about his progress so that has made me antsy about seeing him sooner then later to increase the data points on him for the FO to make up their mind before the 2020 draft.  

 

I'll switch this to Daniel Jones to take it off Haskins.    In preseason, Jones looked better than what I expected.  Like Haskins I watched about 5 full games of his, too.  Though didn't watch them twice like i did with Haskins.  Then Jones had a good game in his debut.  And many started doing mea culpas about him as if the verdict is in.   Ever since that game, he's looked like what i expected and how I laid out my take before the draft -- almost to a tee.  But still I am not watching him in practice.  And there is context to everything.  It wasn't easy to play against NE with no weapons, etc.  So in short, I've seen Jones play better than I expected and then exactly as i expected.  There is too much up in the air for me to double down on my initial opinion on Jones.  I could end up right on that front or I could end up dead wrong.   So I still have a hard opinion on him but am willing to change my mind with a larger sample. 

 

Agree that we are looking at data far too limited to completely dismiss anyone else's interpretation of it.   I love people going to town on Haskins or any players as for opinion.  Just saying I think it might be premature to landing hard on a definitive conclusion.  It's actually part of the reason why I want to see Haskins play 5 games plus this season. 

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1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

Not sure it's bragging. There are many people, myself included that do watch a lot of video on college players because we do a mock draft. It's a hobby. It's something we enjoy. It makes me more aware of the college players coming out. And I rally enjoy our mock draft. It's really fun to compare your results to the pros. 

 

Now i will be the first to admit I certainly do not have the same skill as someone who is being paid to do it. But I am not horrible at it either. I can see trends and notice weaknesses and strengths. However, there are few on here that I would put their skill at watching players against many in the NFL. I can show you 4 to 5 yrs of actual results of players to provide that proof. Guys that routinely pick 4 to 7 round picks that end up making huge contributions in the NFL. It's more than coincidence. 

 

Just because it's not your thing don't need to talk down to others that enjoy it. 

I'm not talking about the ones who do it, I'm talking about, for example, the guy who was on the game day thread a couple of weeks ago, bragging about how he watched every play from Dwayne and how he knows he's a bust because he saw everything and blah blah blah. In other words, he bragged about claiming he knew everything about every player and was able to foretell who was going to thrive and who wasn't and anyone that disagreed didn't know football.

 

Perhaps I worded it wrongly in my original post.

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1 hour ago, wit33 said:

 

Agreed. Love reading opinions, even the extreme ones (We all have our moments on here). I’m genuinely fascinated by those that can reach a steadfast conclusion in short time lol

 

 

It’s difficult to not be somewhat all over the place with what we’ve been able to watch with him in pre season and a 1 half of season football. 
 

What isn’t a negotiable is work ethic behind the scenes (as you’ve noted many times). I remember reading something about him not being the hardest worker to date, but can’t place where. 


I know you’re on top of it all: have you heard this or remember who reported this?

 

The bad work ethic report is Lombardi.  My rule of thumb with media/gossip stuff is do we find everyone or just about saying the same thing.  If so then I am more inclined to believe it.  

 

And as far as I can tell Lombardi is on an island as for the work ethic stuff.  The one thing I didn't like about it is he gave the impression that his source was a couple of coaches.  So that and other things reporters have said paint a picture that there is some divide in that building with coaches and some within the FO as to Haskins.  But most have said Haskins is a great guy, likable, humble, works hard, etc. 

 

If there was any doubt before, Jay's comment to Breer today, I thought gave away there was divide on the building about Haskins.  I'd add the fact that Jay was willing to go on record today with Russini when she was guest hosting a show I think reveals he has a good relationship with her.  So as Galdi said today he might have been one of her sources.

 

I don't feel like retracing how I reached the conclusion but my best guess piecing it together is something like this:  I think it was Doug and Dan hyped on Haskins in the building.  Then Bruce too but I suspect Bruce just followed Dan.   Some of the scouts weren't enamored with Haskins and saw him as QB with potential but a 2nd round talent.  Pretty sure Kyle saw it the same way.   Dan toyed with trading up.  They convinced him he wouldn't have to and they have too many needs to give away draft capital.  They took Haskins but then also got Sweat so everyone was happy in the end.  And it looked like the issue was put to rest.

 

In the building, I think Jay among others really liked Haskins personally and think he can be good within time but thought he was raw and nothing they've seen in practice makes them think otherwise.  But the season went south fast.  Keenum struggled.  And then now we got a narrative of why isn't Haskins ready?   Seems like Jay and others are simply thinking he isn't ready because he isn't ready -- there is no conspiracy here.

 

But we got all these national media narratives cooking about why isn't Haskins playing so it brought back the old stories from before the draft about who wanted Haskins and who didn't so it revived all that drama.    For me personally, I could ignore all of that but I hate the narratives from Sheehan, Paulsen among others that they are hearing that there are people in that building who don't think Haskins has the goods.  The irony with all of that is it seems like Jay thinks Haskins can make it fine as long as we have patience with him.  

 

It's my best shot at piecing together the narrative.  It's combining different things said by different reporters.  Obviously I could be wrong.   😀

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree except that it seems hard to land on a definitive conviction on a QB with a really short sample size.  I've probably put in as much time as anyone on Haskins.  I watched 5 of his games twice.  And watched 5 live practices in camp.   I have an opinion about him and I've shared it.   And agree its a moving target.  I can't really land on an opinion with Haskins with total conviction because I am not watching practice now and we haven't really seen him in real games aside from that small sample against the Giants.  I don't love what the beat guys have said they are hearing though about his progress so that has made me antsy about seeing him sooner then later to increase the data points on him for the FO to make up their mind before the 2020 draft.  

 

I'll switch this to Daniel Jones to take it off Haskins.    In preseason, Jones looked better than what I expected.  Like Haskins I watched about 5 full games of his, too.  Though didn't watch them twice like i did with Haskins.  Then Jones had a good game in his debut.  And many started doing mea culpas about him as if the verdict is in.   Ever since that game, he's looked like what i expected and how I laid out my take before the draft -- almost to a tee.  But still I am not watching him in practice.  And there is context to everything.  It wasn't easy to play against NE with no weapons, etc.  So in short, I've seen Jones play better than I expected and then exactly as i expected.  There is too much up in the air for me to double down on my initial opinion on Jones.  I could end up right on that front or I could end up dead wrong.   So I still have a hard opinion on him but am willing to change my mind with a larger sample. 

 

Agree that we are looking at data far too limited to completely dismiss anyone else's interpretation of it.   I love people going to town on Haskins or any players opinion.  Just saying I think it might be premature to landing hard on a definitive conclusion.  It's actually part of the reason why I want to see Haskins play 5 games plus this season. 


You can absolutely have conviction on a prospect with limited data, the limited data/snap could represent the central point of your thesis, as it does for a HOFer you reference often, Bill Parcells.

 

Past conviction doesn’t equal future conviction, you can have conviction in where you stand while pursuing information that could ultimately topple a previous held belief. A firmly held belief isn’t a sentence, it’s just an interpretation of the data you’ve got. Many brilliant minds have had, and ceded, conviction on nearly everything in every field ... from the sciences to what we discuss here, flat earth to Black QBs... it’s impossible to analyze our own biases objectively, that’s why having a group of people you trust is important in anything that’s subjective at the time it’s being analyzed. 
 

The Vikings had conviction in Kirk, then they had conviction in taking the ball out of his hands, now they have conviction in Kirk again. Humans know nearly nothing, we interpret things based on what we’ve gained from a past that expands with each moment; open-minded conviction is the goal.

 

Jones/DH... in reality, neither has come remotely close to playing enough to have any idea who they will ultimately become. If we evaluated QBs based on last week, San Diego would give Rivers & a first for Kyle Allen. All of these guys are gifted, all of them are capable of putting together a nice stretch, all of them are capable of being atrocious for a 6 game stretch ... Jimmy G has gone from a top 5 to bottom 10 on several lists... people don’t have a lot of conviction on Matt Stafford, he’s been in the nfl longer than coach K has been at Duke. The game continues to evolve, players evolve, we don’t have end points, we have evolving pieces, plugged into an evolving game controlled by evolving coaches. A QBs performances can be ruined by a thousand things that have nothing to do with his own play ... and 1,000 more that are directly tied to his own play. It’s all craziness, that’s why I love the word expert, the next human expert, in any field, will be the first. 
 

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16 minutes ago, volsmet said:


You can absolutely have conviction on a prospect with limited data, the limited data/snap could represent the central point of your thesis, as it does for a HOFer you reference often, Bill Parcells.
 

 

Parcells makes it easier in part because he has specific criteria about the type of prospects he likes which he's spelled out in his draft specials.  Haskins for example he wouldn't have touched in the draft in all likelihood because of his limited experience.    So he likely wouldn't have bothered with the limited experience debate let's give a QB time drll because according to his playbook he wouldn't even allowed that process to play out. 

 

16 minutes ago, volsmet said:


 

Past conviction doesn’t equal future conviction, you can have conviction in where you stand while pursuing information that could ultimately topple a previous held belief. A firmly held belief isn’t a sentence, it’s just an interpretation of the data you’ve got. Many brilliant minds have had, and ceded, conviction on nearly everything in every field ... from the sciences to what we discuss here, flat earth to Black QBs... it’s impossible to analyze our own biases objectively, that’s why having a group of people you trust is important in anything that’s subjective at the time it’s being analyzed. 
 

The Vikings had conviction in Kirk, then they had conviction in taking the ball out of his hands, now they have conviction in Kirk again. Humans know nearly nothing, we interpret things based on what we’ve gained from a past that expands with each moment; open-minded conviction is the goal.

 

Agree with all of this.  If your point is you can have conviction at a given time but you need to be open for that point to be changed as information evolves - I am 100% on board with that.  It's actually a way of thinking that comes up a lot in my business and the flexibility to change a core conviction when warranted is very helpful and conversely stubbornly sticking to your thoughts even if new information brings doubt -- can be fatal on a professional basis. 

 

16 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Jones/DH... in reality, neither has come remotely close to playing enough to have any idea who they will ultimately become. 

 

Agree.

 

16 minutes ago, volsmet said:


Jimmy G has gone from a top 5 to bottom 10 on several lists... people don’t have a lot of conviction on Matt Stafford, he’s been in the nfl longer than coach K has been at Duke. The game continues to evolve, players evolve, we don’t have end points, we have evolving pieces, plugged into an evolving game controlled by evolving coaches. A QBs performances can be ruined by a thousand things that have nothing to do with his own play ... and 1,000 more that are directly tied to his own play. It’s all craziness, that’s why I love the word expert, the next human expert, in any field, will be the first. 
 

 

Yep.  Some kill GM's for making this or that mistake.  But the bottom line is everyone screws up.  Heck even if you have the conviction about a player's talent there are still so many variables that can impinge on how they progress:  their personality, teammates, coaches, injuries, personal life, plain luck, etc.  So going back to Parcells he likes to say if you bat 50-50 in personnel you are doing a good job because its not an exact science.  

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31 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I'm not talking about the ones who do it, I'm talking about, for example, the guy who was on the game day thread a couple of weeks ago, bragging about how he watched every play from Dwayne and how he knows he's a bust because he saw everything and blah blah blah. In other words, he bragged about claiming he knew everything about every player and was able to foretell who was going to thrive and who wasn't and anyone that disagreed didn't know football.

 

Perhaps I worded it wrongly in my original post.

 

Fair enough. I remember the guy. If I get your point better it is that no one can KNOW exactly how a player is going to turn out no matter how much you do or do not watch and i could not agree more with that. 

 

Evaluating players is anything but a science. Even the best in the world get **** wrong all the time. Again there are people that are better at it than others but it's still a fair amount of guess work. 

 

Thanks for clarifying. 

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I wish more people would share their thoughts on the film they watch, I could care less if you're an expert or not. 

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1 hour ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Has anyone definitively called him a bust yet? 

 

Multiple people, yes

16 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I wish more people would share their thoughts on the film they watch, I could care less if you're an expert or not. 

 

there is a porn joke in here someplace 

36 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Fair enough. I remember the guy. If I get your point better it is that no one can KNOW exactly how a player is going to turn out no matter how much you do or do not watch and i could not agree more with that. 

 

Evaluating players is anything but a science. Even the best in the world get **** wrong all the time. Again there are people that are better at it than others but it's still a fair amount of guess work. 

 

Thanks for clarifying. 

 

Thats exactly what I’m trying to say. As usual y’all say it better lol

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