FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[volsmet]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I say all that not to say I'm convinced Haskins is going to be a bust as I literally have no idea

 

[volsmet]

2 hours ago, Bonez3 said:

I'm as sick as anyone about this franchise, but to have such hopelessness around Haskins is simple unbridled emotions.

 

This kid has every bit the talent as Jones, Minshew, etc. Damn, I'm pissed to, but he needs some time (over a year). Wait till next year and see where he is, that should have been the plan all along. This is a QB's league and you have to make investments like this, at 15 no brainer. You could have argued him in the top 10. 

 

I don't think it's fair that Haskins is getting lumped into the current organization's dysfunction.

I don’t think many here are giving up on him. In the preseason people thought he was the best player on our roster - not because they’re idiots, but he had moments that legitimately displayed his talent was above that of those around him. We’re all prisoners of the moment, we need only look in the cells we’ve recently occupied to decouple ourselves from whatever it is we’re feeling strongly now.

2 hours ago, mojo said:

Norman didn’t go into specifics.  He praised Haskins physical tools but said he having problems with the little things 

I wish Norman was only struggling with the little things. 

[HardcoreZorn]

The ONE time Danny boy has somehow exhibited the correct approach to bringing a raw but talented QB like Haskins along, the entire fan base is clamoring to see him just to see what we have? You can’t make this stuff up. 
 

The talent evaluators and offensive staff see him every single day and deem him not ready. Doesn’t mean he’s a bust, it means he’s not ready. It shouldn’t be alarming a guy with 14 college starts with some noticeable (correctable) flaws isn’t ready. Being 0-5 should have no bearing on wanting to see him play, and play now. If we tank and are in play for Tua and you don’t have confidence based off of practice that he’s absolutely a guy you can build around, take Tua. There will be some desperate team out there willing to take the gamble on Haskins for a second rounder. If we decide he’s worth being that guy based off his progression level during practice, then trade out and get a major haul. We shouldn’t NEED to throw him into a bad situation to see if he sinks or swims to make that decision. If a guy like Kyle Smith is as talented as I think he is, he should be able to make that determination being around the guy every day. 

[RandyHolt]

By not playing him during a season long dumpster fire - you show your hand, and tank his value. Oh he is not ready. It's a pipedream that the new coach can suddenly do in mini camp what another team didn't even try in an entire year.

 

Conversely, if you get him in a few games and he dominates, you may actually increase his value, maybe even significantly, to a team that just missed out on their QB in 2020.

 

All without opposition GMs knowing that we had to actually purge out 90% of the playbook, only call the throws he dominates at etc.

[KDawg]

13 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

The ONE time Danny boy has somehow exhibited the correct approach to bringing a raw but talented QB like Haskins along, the entire fan base is clamoring to see him just to see what we have? You can’t make this stuff up. 
 

The talent evaluators and offensive staff see him every single day and deem him not ready. Doesn’t mean he’s a bust, it means he’s not ready. It shouldn’t be alarming a guy with 14 college starts with some noticeable (correctable) flaws isn’t ready. Being 0-5 should have no bearing on wanting to see him play, and play now. If we tank and are in play for Tua and you don’t have confidence based off of practice that he’s absolutely a guy you can build around, take Tua. There will be some desperate team out there willing to take the gamble on Haskins for a second rounder. If we decide he’s worth being that guy based off his progression level during practice, then trade out and get a major haul. We shouldn’t NEED to throw him into a bad situation to see if he sinks or swims to make that decision. If a guy like Kyle Smith is as talented as I think he is, he should be able to make that determination being around the guy every day. 

 

I'm not actually as much in disagreement with this post as some might think I would be.

 

But I think a lot of us want to see him for a few reasons...

 

1) Sometimes guys stink in practice and just can't put it together there but can come out in a game and light it up. We saw he can't do it in relief duty, but what about when he is the starter and he has prepared as one?

 

2) Self-scouting because we don't trust the front office to get it right even if there are people in the front office who get it right.

[skinsmania123]

53 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Are they? They paid Foles a fortune - held on to Bortles forever - and all they needed, evidently, was Minshew or Kyle Allen.

What an absurdly narrow focus that’d be. Few things worse than doubling down on uncertainty. 

@volsmet that is true what you said about Bortles.  My main point here that we picked a QB 15th in the 1st round so it should be reasonable to assume he would be able to start in the NFL and the Jaguars have a sound, really good QB from the 6th round starting and we can't even get our 1st round 15th pick on the field because he is not ready.   

 

Sure it is media leaks but I am starting to realize more and more no one really did want him except Danny because they saw the flaws in his game and the fact that he only started 15 games in college so maybe they reasoned putting those two together that there was not enough of a sample size so they should not pull the trigger at 15.   Potential yes.  I will give him that.  But that is not a 1st round 15th pick in an NFL draft.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

2) Self-scouting because we don't trust the front office to get it right even if there are people in the front office who get it right.

There is enough smoke in regards to how the selection of Haskins was made that I think this point cannot be understated.  I don't believe it has to happen this very second, although the Dolphins are a prime confidence booster.  But to not be doing everything in their power to get him ready for the final 5 or 6 games, once they are mathematically or logically eliminated from the playoffs, seems a disservice to whomever will be making the decisions come this offseason.

[wit33]

You’d think Kirk was never here by the posting going on here. This organization developed Kirk. Say it with me, this organization developed Kirk. 

 

It appears the organization has a plan for Haskins, but aren’t committed to saying when he will play is all. Allowing him time to develop organically without being pressured by the outside influences and noise. 

 

You can argue if they should play him right away or not, but it’s clear a plan is in place. I appreciate they aren’t throwing him in the middle of a coaching change and all that comes with it. Allow time for things to settle for a bit and Haskins to focus on football only. 

[JSSkinz]

The thought of Haskins not playing at least the last 6 games of the year frightens me, we don't need to see perfection or the next Peyton Manning but we need to see something, some flash of his ability which gives us enough confidence to deal our 1st rounder for extra picks.

 

I was listening to Finlay the other day and he knows a scout that he respects and he said he sent the scout a text to ask him if Haskins was ready now and the scout said no, but they can get him ready in 2 or 3 weeks, the scout went on to say that if Haskins cant be game ready by midseason then that was worrisome and at that point you might have to start thinking about a backup plan.

 

 

[HardcoreZorn]

18 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I'm not actually as much in disagreement with this post as some might think I would be.

 

But I think a lot of us want to see him for a few reasons...

 

1) Sometimes guys stink in practice and just can't put it together there but can come out in a game and light it up. We saw he can't do it in relief duty, but what about when he is the starter and he has prepared as one?

This I do agree with, some guys have it when the lights come on and don’t show their best stuff in practice. Is the reward of finding out worth the risk of damaging him both as an asset and as a long term player? 

 

18 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

2) Self-scouting because we don't trust the front office to get it right even if there are people in the front office who get it right.

I get the reluctance given our QB track record. I just really respect the decision to bring him along slowly, despite all the noise on the outside. There’s no doubt Haskins would put more butts in seats than McCoy or Keenum. Gotta give props where props are due, it appears Danny isn’t forcing on Gruden and now Callahan who should play QB, and instead taking the longer term play. And that to me, is earth shattering considering what’s been reported in the past. 
 

I wouldn’t mind seeing him for a handful of games down the stretch. Back down the playbook, simplify things, give him a gameplan to execute the last handful of games to get him some tape and live reps. But if he’s still not ready right now and it appears he is not, no reason to throw him in the fire just because we are where we are record wise.

[Hooper]

On Michael Lombardi's latest podcast, he says he has talked to people in the building and that they say Haskins doesn't work hard and acts like the job should just be given to him. Very entitled. Basically RG3 all over again, but at least RG3 had a good year before he became a diva.

 

Wow.

 

I would happily point out that Lombardi was a terrible GM who now makes a living with hot takes that are often wrong, but we are talking about a QB our owner drafted over the advice of the football people. 

[checmate21]

44 minutes ago, Hooper said:

On Michael Lombardi's latest podcast, he says he has talked to people in the building and that they say Haskins doesn't work hard and acts like the job should just be given to him. Very entitled. Basically RG3 all over again, but at least RG3 had a good year before he became a diva.

 

Wow.

 

I would happily point out that Lombardi was a terrible GM who now makes a living with hot takes that are often wrong, but we are talking about a QB our owner drafted over the advice of the football people. 

Man, Don't believe that..

 

I believe he is a hard worker, and he already said the job shouldn't be given to him, he has to work for it

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

You’d think Kirk was never here by the posting going on here. This organization developed Kirk. Say it with me, this organization developed Kirk. 

 

It appears the organization has a plan for Haskins, but aren’t committed to saying when he will play is all. Allowing him time to develop organically without being pressured by the outside influences and noise. 

 

You can argue if they should play him right away or not, but it’s clear a plan is in place. I appreciate they aren’t throwing him in the middle of a coaching change and all that comes with it. Allow time for things to settle for a bit and Haskins to focus on football only. 

 

1 hour ago, JSSkinz said:

 

I was listening to Finlay the other day

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

By not playing him during a season long dumpster fire - you show your hand, and tank his value. Oh he is not ready. It's a pipedream that the new coach can suddenly do in mini camp what another team didn't even try in an entire year.

 

Conversely, if you get him in a few games and he dominates, you may actually increase his value, maybe even significantly, to a team that just missed out on their QB in 2020.

 

All without opposition GMs knowing that we had to actually purge out 90% of the playbook, only call the throws he dominates at etc.

 

If you don't play him this season, it's not gonna change anyone's opinion of him who was already intrigued enough to consider drafting him in 2019. In fact, i'd bet a year's salary that the "dumpster-fire, disorganized dysfunction" of the Redskins will be blamed for him not playing, and that the conventional wisdom around the league will be if he gets to another franchise that is well-run and competent he will blossom.

 

Conversely, if you play him and he looks as bad as he did during the Giants game, you absolutely tank his value because you'll be giving teams film on him that shows his current flaws and can't easily be chalked up to Snyder and Bruce. If you only call throws he dominates at, that **** will be picked up in a nanosecond from film study--and I tend to believe that GMs, head coaches, and pro scouts tend to base their decisions on that and not the stat page at NFL.com. Well, except the Vikings maybe lol...

 

Not to mention that if you play him and he dominates like you said, why would you care about raising his value for a trade? Wouldn't you keep him in that situation?

[Skinsinparadise]

I was on the train of sit Haskins for most of the season and lol even argued with some on this point who disagreed.   But I have changed my mind.  I'd start him after the bye week.

 

 A QB coach, Paul Troth, who knows Haskins well and has worked with him in a summer camp also said he'd play him in a couple of weeks.  I don't think it's that crazy.  If the beat guys who cover the team (all of them by the way) are correct that there are some (including Kyle according to Keim among others) that aren't sold on Haskins in spite of their outward rhetoric then it has me a little concerned.  Yet, any young Qb deserves to sink or swim.   

 

Hoffman mentioned (and I agree) some QBs are just better in real games than in practice.  So I'd like to see it.    It's not about the dude lighting it up.  It's about showing flashes and progress.   Jets fans for example seem jazzed about Darnold.  Darnold's numbers were bad last year but they saw enough anyway to get excited.  Same idea here.  

  

If we weren't on a fast track potentially to Tua, I'd feel 100% differently.  And that's a big part of my take.  I think it's unfair to Haskins to just dump him in the off season without giving him some rides on the bicycle so to speak to see what's he got.   Am not so sure you can figure it out 100% in practice and if you couild I don't love what some who cover the team have said about it.  Or for that matter what it looked to me in camp when I was there.   Some players just aren't big time practice players. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I was on the train of sit Haskins for most of the season and lol even argued with some on this point who disagreed.   But I have changed my mind.  I'd start him after the bye week.

 

 A QB coach, Paul Troth, who knows Haskins well and has worked with him in a summer camp also said he'd play him in a couple of weeks.  I don't think it's that crazy.  If the beat guys who cover the team (all of them by the way) are correct there are some (including Kyle according to Keim and others) that aren't sold on Haskins in spite of the outward rhetoric then it has me a little concerned.  Yet, any young Qb deserves to sink or swim.   

 

Hoffman mentioned (and I agree) some QBs are just better in real games than in practice.  So I'd like to see it.    It's not about the dude lightening it up.  It's about showing flashes and progress.   Jets fans for example seem jazzed about Darnold.  Darnold's numbers were bad last year but the saw enough anyway to get excited.  Same idea here.  

  

If we weren't on a fast track potentially to Tua, I'd feel 100% differently.  And that's a big part of my take.  I think it's unfair to Haskins to just dump him in the off season without giving him some rides on the bicycle so to speak to see what's he got.   Am not so sure you can figure it out 100% in practice.  

 

I don't care either way...play him, sit him, doesn't matter. Just honestly and legitimately keep developing him. If he does sit all year, I don't want to trade him. If we got the #1 pick I'd want to trade back and surround him with a ****load of young talent to grow with and start him next season. Brees didn't break out until his 3rd or 4th season and after his replacement was drafted high....I'm cool with being patient.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

I don't care either way...play him, sit him, doesn't matter. Just honestly and legitimately keep developing him. If he does sit all year, I don't want to trade him. If we got the #1 pick I'd want to trade back and surround him with a ****load of young talent to grow with and start him next season. Brees didn't break out until his 3rd or 4th season and after his replacement was drafted high....I'm cool with being patient.

 

Absolutely. As long as the new HC and GM, who are hired for their abilities to coach and not their willingness to take on Haskins, agree. If not, sianara.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Absolutely. As long as the new HC and GM, who are hired for their abilities to coach and not their willingness to take on Haskins, agree. If not, sianara.

 

Definitely agree there...it was one major reason I didn't want to draft Haskins. Not because of his talent, but because I didn't believe we (both coaches and as an organization) had the capability needed to develop him correctly...and he was gonna need it. Only thing we've done correctly so far in terms of his development (as far as I know anyway) is show patience. If we get a new GM and HC who aren't brought in specifically due to Haskins, it could work out exactly as we hoped.

[Est.1974]

On 4/26/2019 at 3:29 AM, ggarriso said:

fat, slow, lazy , terrible body language.  I smell a BUST

 

 

Dont tell me this guy from page 2 of the thread is ggoing to be right.

[volsmet]

2 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Dont tell me this guy from page 2 of the thread is ggoing to be right.

Why bump that.

 

[CjSuAvE22]

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

You’d think Kirk was never here by the posting going on here. This organization developed Kirk. Say it with me, this organization developed Kirk. 

 

It appears the organization has a plan for Haskins, but aren’t committed to saying when he will play is all. Allowing him time to develop organically without being pressured by the outside influences and noise. 

 

You can argue if they should play him right away or not, but it’s clear a plan is in place. I appreciate they aren’t throwing him in the middle of a coaching change and all that comes with it. Allow time for things to settle for a bit and Haskins to focus on football only. 

Plan? theres no plan in place we don't even know who the coach will be next year and if he will even want haskins under center...cmon man don't drink the Snyder/Allen "Plan in place Great culture we have a future" bs...

12 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Definitely agree there...it was one major reason I didn't want to draft Haskins. Not because of his talent, but because I didn't believe we (both coaches and as an organization) had the capability needed to develop him correctly...and he was gonna need it. Only thing we've done correctly so far in terms of his development (as far as I know anyway) is show patience. If we get a new GM and HC who aren't brought in specifically due to Haskins, it could work out exactly as we hoped.

Cali u are one of the most senior most posters in this forum, since when does a team bringing a GM and Coach centered around one player work?? its not gonna happen whatever coach we hire will be forced to develop haskins whether he has the skills or not most likely this is a train wreck waiting to happen nothing in this teams history under snyder tells me they can make this Haskins situation work....

[CjSuAvE22]

57 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

 

Heres the problem with that chart..twice in the last 5 years Cousins was rated 6th in the league in 2017 with 0 wide receivers and no running game he was 14th and last year he was 15th lets wait till the end of the season before we jump to conclusions hes not gonna end up in his normal range of around 10-12ish which will be better than any qb on this roster. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

Absolutely. As long as the new HC and GM, who are hired for their abilities to coach and not their willingness to take on Haskins, agree. If not, sianara.

 

I want whatever they want but on condition that its not a prerequisite that they have to be on board with whatever the inherited status quo is.  Ironically just like the Cardinals did this year.  

 

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

I don't care either way...play him, sit him, doesn't matter. Just honestly and legitimately keep developing him. If he does sit all year, I don't want to trade him. If we got the #1 pick I'd want to trade back and surround him with a ****load of young talent to grow with and start him next season. Brees didn't break out until his 3rd or 4th season and after his replacement was drafted high....I'm cool with being patient.

 

I agree with this in concept.  I'd love for Haskins to be the guy.  Like I've said I got a big framed signed picture on him on my wall with my kids.   I thought he was a really cool dude as for how he interacted with fans, etc. 😀  I am rooting for him hard.    Him and Guice are amazing people as for dealing with fans.   And then I'd draft a stud defender like Chase Young or a stud LT like Andrew Thomas or trade down for a bounty of picks.  That's how I'd draw it up on paper.  But alas its not always that neat and linear. 

 

I don't want to dig into the weeds on this but I'll just say listening to people who cover the team they've made it very clear not everyone in that FO are sold that Haskins is a franchise QB.  So my thing is if there is a divide in that FO, let's give them more data points to sort that out.  I just don't believe they can come up with a definitive verdict before they see him play.  

 

And I am probably being premature on this because I think we beat the Dolphins and don't end up with the first pick.  But if we do lose it, wow.  Tua might be the most hyped QB (way more than Haskins) hitting the draft since Luck.  There is a reason why the Dolphins owner seems to be willing to sell his soul to get the dude.  I am a bit of a Tua fanatic.  I even drove 4 hours to go see him play in the opener last year.  He's that much fun to watch along with his receivers.   I've seen him multiple times play and IMO he's special.

 

He can move and dart around the pocket, almost Russell Wilson like.  He can throw from different arm platforms like Mahones.  He has a great deep ball.  He throws with anticipation.  IMO this dude could be an Aaron Rodgers level type in the NFL.  Now if Kyle or whoever is the GM disagrees -- OK.   But IMO if they are in love with Tua and back and forth on Haskins, you draft Tua.   Special QBs are really hard to find.  If they think Haskins is special then stick with him but if they don't and have a shot at Tua -- you do  it IMO.

 

 

 

 

https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2018/11/how-nfl-scouts-view-tua-tagovailoa.html

 

Tagovailoa is that good and that special.

“When he was getting recruited by Alabama, a lot of guys in their recruiting office, I was working for Seattle, and a lot of ‘em would say, ‘Oh, he’s a lot like your guy,’ meaning Russell Wilson,” said Senior Bowl executive director Jim Nagy, who was an NFL scout for 18 years. “... I think Tua’s got kind of the same dimensions from a body type perspective. Anytime as a scout that you’re making a comparison, it kind of starts there. They’re very similar athletes, but the one thing I think Tua does even better than Russ is that I think he anticipates throws better. He can really visualize a throw. Guys don’t have to be open. He sees openings before they happen, and those are things you can’t coach.

 

“So I think the NFL’s going to look at his skill set, and he does a lot of things that you can’t coach — see the field, throw accurately, be athletic. He’s got a really unique package.”

 

Alabama will likely soon have another Heisman winner

“Tua is rare. I respect what I’m seeing. Very rare.”

 

...That longtime NFL personnel man compared him to someone else though, to a modern day version of one of the great all-time lefty quarterbacks, Steve Young.

“I think he’s really an easy guy to evaluate,” Nagy said. “I really do.

 

...Heisman Trophy voters are well aware. So are NFL evaluators.

That longtime NFL personnel man was in attendance for the Alabama-LSU game on Saturday. While asking him whether he still thinks Tagovailoa would be an early first-round pick in next year’s draft if he were eligible for it, he put up his right index finger and began nodding.

“Number one,“ he said.

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/4/18/18412209/tua-tagovailoa-trevor-lawrence-draft-quarterbacks-trend

I watched Alabama closely last season and felt that Tagovailoa was the best quarterback prospect I’d ever seen. 

[KDawg]

Ironically it looks like Alabama is going to have another Heisman winner, but currently he's wearing an OU on his helmet. I'm not sleeping on Hurts as a prospect yet, either. I'd have to really watch his stuff more closely to evaluate, but I think there's a few QBs in this next draft that are going to be available, even later than the top 3. 

[Renegade7]

An Alabama QB the best prospect ever?  That doesnt even sound right...