FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Art]

5 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 

A skin of our teeth 6-3, could easily of be 3-6 with that QB play.

 

Except, uh, nope.

 

We easily beat the Cardinals, Packers, Giants and Bucs.   We had the Cowboys  handled, though a late thing made that seem closer than the than the game actually was.   And we pretty much handled Carolina, though they made a late push.   In fact we were EASILY 6-3, but no better, as we were blown out three times.   Had the injuries not come in those numbers we're 10-6 and all looking forward to this year.   We all seem to forget while we were not a great team at 6-3 and our style of play was NOT going to be a championship quality team, we were actually solid and competitive and even tough.   Until two dozen guys disappeared.   

[redskinss]

13 hours ago, TheShredder said:

You have to understand what Alex Smith is dealing with.  Not only is he highly unlikely to ever play football again, he's still got more surgeries with the hope of fully having function in it.  That infection was no joke.  They had to pull the rods out that were inside the middle of his bones, leaving cavities and instability that required a cage to be built around it for stability.  After this, they have to go back and re-implant those rods.  It would be a miracle if he ever plays again. 

I agree with everything you just said, and that makes me wonder why they don't move on from him.

 

I don't mean release him In some sort of a your garbage now type of move, and i also realize that there's huge salary cap ramifications, but if he's almost certainly never going to play again i think it'd be wise to find a way to move on.

 

There has to be a way to do it amicably so that he can get his money and rehab and we can get full closure to move on to the next chapter.

 

I just dont see how having him around with almost no chance of ever playing again helps the team.

 

What happens when he's almost back to full strength, if haskins hasn't developed into a franchise quarterback yet?

Do we give a 36 year old who's had a year or two off another chance?

 

Remember how tough that offense was to watch when he was coming off a career year, well just imagine it after a huge layoff and coming back from a devastating injury.

 

We have plenty of coaches to mentor the rookie and even two veteran quarterbacks on the roster.

 

I'm not trying to be cold here but I think the team would be better off if we found a way to move on.

 

 

[Art]

14 minutes ago, redskinss said:

I agree with everything you just said, and that makes me wonder why they don't move on from him.

 

I don't mean release him In some sort of a your garbage now type of move, and i also realize that there's huge salary cap ramifications, but if he's almost certainly never going to play again i think it'd be wise to find a way to move on.

 

There has to be a way to do it amicably so that he can get his money and rehab and we can get full closure to move on to the next chapter.

 

I just dont see how having him around with almost no chance of ever playing again helps the team.

 

 

Cutting him this year would have crippled the team entirely.   The current benefit to having him still is we could add Collins and play with the cap a bit.   Cutting him would have accelerated things so far it would have brutalized our roster.    He has also proven to be quite a good mentor and sounding board for young, coming QBs.   I suspect he won't get worse at that for Haskins than he was for Mahomes and Kaep.

[mistertim]

12 hours ago, JoggingGod said:

So why aren’t Cam, Dalton, Luck, Wilson, Carr, Winston, Goff, Dak, Wentz, Watson, Trubisky, Baker, Darnold, Allen, Lamar ruined by starting year 1?

 

Out of that whole group only two guys had as little college starting experience as Haskins: Cam and Trubisky (though Trubisky still played in another 18 games in 14-15 before being the full time starter in 2016 and had a decent number of attempts so he was a bit further along than the other two IMO).

 

Trubisky didn't begin at Chicago as the starter but was given the reigns after they had an awful start. Cam did actually have as little college experience as Haskins but as we all know he's a completely unique QB. He was so big, fast, and mobile that he could use that as a crutch to get around lack of experience when starting day 1. Haskins doesn't have anything like that to use to get around his rawness and lack of starting experience. He's actually literally the opposite of Cam in many ways.

 

Murray will start out day 1 but he also has that insane mobility and athleticism to fall back on (that being said, he's going to a team with literally the worst OL in the league and a pretty crap supporting cast so I think he may come down to earth with a quickness). Haskins is not only very inexperienced but he still has somewhat ugly footwork that absolutely has to be refined. That's something that an NFL pure pocket passer absolutely has to have down to succeed.

 

There are just so many things to me that scream "Do not start Dwayne Haskins immediately!". Lack of experience, lack of mobility to make up for that lack of experience, slow/poor footwork, has only ever played behind an elite OL, has only ever had all star speedster playmakers to throw to, and many times looked easily flustered on the somewhat rare occasions that pressure did get to him.

 

Don't get me wrong, there are aspects of his game I honestly do like a lot. But IMO with all of the factors I mentioned above in play it could be an epic fail if he gets thrown to the wolves too soon. That means for us as well as for him...because we have no idea how he would respond to that sort of adversity and getting crushed in games. What if being thrown to the wolves when he's not ready completely ****s up his confidence and he becomes shell shocked? Much better to not put him out there until the coaching staff truly strongly believes that he's ready. Jay himself said before the draft that he didn't see Haskins as a guy who would be ready to play right away and even after the draft he talked about taking him along slowly. My fear is that Dan and Bruce simply won't allow that, will basically force Jay to play him, and it will be a disaster.

 

[ThomasRoane]

15 minutes ago, redskinss said:

What happens when he's almost back to full strength, if haskins hasn't developed into a franchise quarterback yet?

Do we give a 36 year old who's had a year or two off another chance?

 

I wouldn't.  I didn't like the Haskins pick but it's water under the bridge.  The Redskins should continue to build on a good, young defense and continue developing into a power/play action scheme on offense.  An explosive running game would help Haskins with play action by keeping DE's honest so he can take some deep shots down the field.  Stay ahead of the sticks, play field position, and be opportunistic with some shot plays on offense that break tendencies. 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[Renegade7]

57 minutes ago, Art said:

 

Except, uh, nope.

 

We easily beat the Cardinals, Packers, Giants and Bucs.   We had the Cowboys  handled, though a late thing made that seem closer than the than the game actually was.   And we pretty much handled Carolina, though they made a late push.   In fact we were EASILY 6-3, but no better, as we were blown out three times.   Had the injuries not come in those numbers we're 10-6 and all looking forward to this year.   We all seem to forget while we were not a great team at 6-3 and our style of play was NOT going to be a championship quality team, we were actually solid and competitive and even tough.   Until two dozen guys disappeared.   

 

That's your opinion, but on top of that Panthers game we almost lost we barely survived the cowboys.  I remember that donkey off the upright for OT because I was there.  And didnt Tampa set the record for highest offensive output without a TD or something plus losing for our 6th win? 

 

C'mon, Art, that 2018 was barely holding together well before the injuries took over. For every game we handled business we got our ass handed to us.

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, Morrison J said:

It's good. Won't be anywhere near a problem. Gets really good zip on his mid range throws. When throwing deep he's got to really set his feet right or he tends to get way too much air under the ball. 

Marino was a gunslinger who threw the ball into tight windows. 

 

I haven’t watched him and I know you have - do you see his needing to see his feet as an actual problem? Or is that just a comment? What I’m really asking is if this translates to him being able to make up for the inability to set his feet with his arm or is that not a possibility (in your opinion) for him? I have seen commentators make the other argument, but I have only been provided clips of him doing this like twice. 

 

1 hour ago, Morrison J said:

Honestly I'm never going to understand the Marino/Big Ben comparisons. People see a big bodied QB who stands in the pocket and put two and two together. Haskins doesn't take risks with his throws. He's safety first in order to avoid turnovers. He also doesn't thrive when the play breaks down. Ben and Marino are the complete opposite. 

 

Its the big body thing. Most of this commentary doesn’t get that deep

[Malapropismic Depository]

If everyone contributes and there's good chemistry, look at all the QB input and experience, both coaching and playing, we have in the QB room.

 

Rattay

Gruden

McConnell

Cavanaugh

Smith

Keenum

McCoy

 

[mistertim]

19 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Its the big body thing. Most of this commentary doesn’t get that deep

 

Yeah Big Ben and Haskins to me have almost nothing in common. Haskins isn't even all that big at 6'3 230. Ben was 6'5 245 lbs when he came out. Even in his college days, Ben was also a very mobile guy for his size who consistently got away from pressure, was almost impossible to bring down, and was a master at improvising when plays broke down. Haskins hasn't really shown any of those traits for the most part. I've seen some Leftwich comparisons (IIRC Scot M mentioned him when asked) and I can see a bit of it with the footwork, but Haskins has a much quicker release. I'd say maybe a combination of Leftwich and Bledsoe. 

[Art]

59 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

That's your opinion, but on top of that Panthers game we almost lost we barely survived the cowboys.  I remember that donkey off the upright for OT because I was there.  And didnt Tampa set the record for highest offensive output without a TD or something plus losing for our 6th win? 

 

C'mon, Art, that 2018 was barely holding together well before the injuries took over. For every game we handled business we got our ass handed to us.

 

It's really not an opinion.   Could we have lost the Cowboy game, sure.   That's the only one in that batch.   You said we could have lost 3.   The fact that we were up 13 with like 5 minutes left against the Cowboys negates even the real danger of losing that, but it would have been a FLUKE loss, not one on merit.   We were a very stable and solid, if utterly boring and depressing, 6-3.   To suggest we were in close games and eeking things out is fiction.   It's not opinion.   It's a fact we won four games very easily, one game pretty easily and only a fluke made one game close of the six.  We weren't at all pretty, mind you, so perhaps you confuse the ugly nature of our offense with competitive games, but that really wasn't the case.   And the fact we were stoned three times did take the shine off any good feeling.   All that's true.   But we weren't a nearly 3-6 team by any stretch, thought, imagination or factual discussion.   At all.   You can say a lot against where we were at 6-3.   You just can't, truthfully, say what you said.

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, Art said:

 

It's really not an opinion.    But we weren't a nearly 3-6 team by any stretch, thought, imagination or factual discussion.   At all.   You can say a lot against where we were at 6-3.   You just can't, truthfully, say what you said.

1

 

It literally is an opinion, live with it.  How many times have we lead during games and blew it at the end?  Last year was marked by ability to grind out games we normally would or get breaks we normally don't.  This has nothing to do with how scrappy I thought they were, there's literally no way for you to prove me wrong outside of continuing to say that you don't like it. Tampa game was fluke of all fluke, but we did it, if that's what you're getting at.

[Art]

7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

It literally is an opinion, live with it.  How many times have we lead during games and blew it at the end?  Last year was marked by ability to grind out games we normally would or get breaks we normally don't.  This has nothing to do with how scrappy I thought they were, there's literally no way for you to prove me wrong outside of continuing to say that you don't like it. Tampa game was fluke of all fluke, but we did it, if that's what you're getting at.

 

So your suggestion is in other years we could have lost those games but not last year, thus your opinion is last year, when what you said not only didn't happen, but we won easily in four of six, pretty easily in one and more than the score in the last, that there's some influence.   Bro, that's not opinion.   That's delusion.   If you're ok with it, that's cool.   But you're only fooling you on that.

If it helps, though, we could have lost all those games, or won them all if those games were nothing like they actually were.   In fiction we could have been 16-0 or 0-16.   True.   In reality we were as solid a 6-3 as one gets.   We weren't going to win the three we lost.   We weren't going to lose the six we won.   But that's only based on the actual games.   I can maybe give you the Cowboys as a possible.   That still ain't three.

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, Art said:

 

So your suggestion is in other years we could have lost those games but not last year, thus your opinion is last year, when what you said not only didn't happen, but we won easily in four of six, pretty easily in one and more than the score in the last, that there's some influence.   Bro, that's not opinion.   That's delusion.   If you're ok with it, that's cool.   But you're only fooling you on that.

 

No, I'm saying you and I are saying things that are both true and we are wasting time with semantics.  They played well against Carolina and Dallas, then they almost lost both games.  For whatever reason we had the mental fortitude not to lose those games when we normally do.  What gives you the right to call me dilusional because you don't agree with me, you just back for the sake or arguing with people?  That's what the tailgate is for.

[Morrison J]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

 

I haven’t watched him and I know you have - do you see his needing to see his feet as an actual problem? Or is that just a comment? What I’m really asking is if this translates to him being able to make up for the inability to set his feet with his arm or is that not a possibility (in your opinion) for him? I have seen commentators make the other argument, but I have only been provided clips of him doing this like twice. 

It's just his deep call gets very inconsistent when pressured and that's all down to his feet. His mechanics tend to completely leave him at any sign of pressure and that effects both his deep and mid range throws pretty noticeably. The ball just sails on him. 

 

We've just got to use him smartly. Quick passing game designed to get him in a rhythm. He's deadly accurate when given a clean pocket and throwing mid range. Some of his throws to the sideline are really really impressive with the zip and accuracy he gets on them. 

 

I don't think there's any great comp out there for him at the moment but it's definitely not Big Ben. I said there's similarities between him and Alex Smith because both are safety first and won't force anything down field. If utilized correctly though both can thrive. Obviously Smith is a better athlete though and doesn't really have the same mechanical flaws. 

 

I think if you combined Smith's safety first mentality and Winston's arm/lack of mobility in the pocket you aren't far off. 

[ixcuincle]

 

[JCB]

Dude, I’m pumped we got this guy!

[Warhead36]

If Haskins is head and shoulders above the rest of the team and legitimately gives us the best chance to win, he plays. You don't just throw a year away.

 

With that said, if its even close at all between him and any other vet, I play the vet, because Haskins can actually learn, develop, and improve from sitting.

[Burgold]

We actually don't yet know if Haskins is by nature super-conservative. That could have been Urban Meyer's and the OC's playcalling/design. He may be a different thrower in the NFL if/when given permission to be let off the leash. Now, others who follow college football could better answer if Meyer's has been more aggressive with his other QBs, but I got the sense that he favors strong defense and mobile QBs with a running game.

 

In any case, it's not really fair to judge who he is before even his first NFL scrimmage.

[Burgundy Yoda]

5 minutes ago, Burgold said:

We actually don't yet know if Haskins is by nature super-conservative. That could have been Urban Meyer's and the OC's playcalling/design. He may be a different thrower in the NFL if/when given permission to be let off the leash. Now, others who follow college football could better answer if Meyer's has been more aggressive with his other QBs, but I got the sense that he favors strong defense and mobile QBs with a running game.

 

In any case, it's not really fair to judge who he is before even his first NFL scrimmage.

 

It could be anything, I didn't think really think he was too conservative, I thought for the most part he didn't force anything and made the most impactful play on the field that he could. I think Haskins has all the arm talent in the world. Things I don't really understand as a fan is who the guy is. Does he love football? Is he a hard worker and willing to put long nights of film study so he can be the best QB he can be? Is he a selfless individual? If he checks those boxes, he's a slam dunk in my eyes because I believe in his talent. 

[Burgold]

2 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

 

It could be anything, I didn't think really think he was too conservative, I thought for the most part he didn't force anything and made the most impactful play on the field that he could. I think Haskins has all the arm talent in the world. Things I don't really understand as a fan is who the guy is. Does he love football? Is he a hard worker and willing to put long nights of film study so he can be the best QB he can be? Is he a selfless individual? If he checks those boxes, he's a slam dunk in my eyes because I believe in his talent. 

I don't know either. I have read that he is a film rat and does a ton of mental prep. Whether he's a hard worker in practice, a good teammate, or if he loves the game I don't know. I will guess that he's a selfless QB because I heard that he is good at standing in the pocket for that extra second and absorbing an extra hit to make a better play for his receivers.

 

What I understand about him is that he is accurate, has very good command of the field, has a great football IQ and a top notch arm. As for the rest... that's what the games and practices are for. He's ours so I'll stand behind him. I didn't want a first round QB this year, but I'd much rather be wrong than right.

[Morrison J]

17 minutes ago, Burgold said:

We actually don't yet know if Haskins is by nature super-conservative. That could have been Urban Meyer's and the OC's playcalling/design. He may be a different thrower in the NFL if/when given permission to be let off the leash. Now, others who follow college football could better answer if Meyer's has been more aggressive with his other QBs, but I got the sense that he favors strong defense and mobile QBs with a running game.

Cardale Jones was pretty aggressive. 

[Llevron]

He said in his one of his interviews since being drafted that he plans to put in the long hours with Gruden in particular cause thats what it takes, so i think you can check that box. He would spend hours weekly on his opponents in school too. His goal was to find out what they like to do an exploit it. To the point of knowing the CBs tendencies. So i think hes a film rat. 

 

I have heard all good things about his character as well. But honestly i didnt know this kid from mud up until we actually drafted him. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 hours ago, Art said:

 

You said we could have lost 3. The fact that we were up 13 with like 5 minutes left against the Cowboys negates even the real danger of losing that, but it would have been a FLUKE loss, not one on merit.  

 

d'oh!!...I was with you on this thread until that lol ....

 

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

5 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I don't know either. I have read that he is a film rat and does a ton of mental prep. Whether he's a hard worker in practice, a good teammate, or if he loves the game I don't know. I will guess that he's a selfless QB because I heard that he is good at standing in the pocket for that extra second and absorbing an extra hit to make a better play for his receivers.

 

What I understand about him is that he is accurate, has very good command of the field, has a great football IQ and a top notch arm. As for the rest... that's what the games and practices are for. He's ours so I'll stand behind him. I didn't want a first round QB this year, but I'd much rather be wrong than right.

That's a massive one, if he's a film rat, to me that is a must for a QB. You can't be great at anything in life if you don't study or put in the work. If he's selfless off the field that's big too, like deflecting attention off of himself and not be a 'me' first type of guy. If he internally likes the spotlight, he'll get it regardless because he's a Washington QB and this is still a big market. If he's actually a good QB in the NFL he'll immediately be extremely popular. I stand behind him too, it's a shame he fell to the 15th pick but I think he arrived to a team on the upswing (as long as we figure out our injury issues).