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    • By Destino in ES Coverage
         1
      We’re still doing this?  Absolutely!  Despite all the compelling reasons to just let everyone go home and enjoy and extended offseason, this is not an option.  The games must be played, and therefore we the long-suffering fans will feel compelled to watch.  Even games no reasonable football fan would choose to watch like, for example, today’s Redskins Jets game.   

      Today’s convergence of sadness features the 30th ranked scoring offense (Jets 14.4 ppg) versus the 32nd (Redskins 12.0 ppg).  The first team to 15 wins!  With no playoff aspirations the compelling story lines for this game are largely limited to watching young players (hopefully) develop.  Dwayne Haskins gets his first home start and Derrius Guice is back from injury.   
       
      My, reasonable, goals for today’s game:  
      1- Score a touchdown 
      2- Score more than 17 points.   
      3- Haskins throws for 200 yards or more with no interceptions  
      4- Guice runs the ball at least 10 times and finishes at 3.5 yards per carry and healthy.  
       
      Hoping for a win at this point feels like setting myself up for disappointment, so I’m happy to settle for an entertaining loss.  
       
      Special thanks to @pez for some excellent Guinness beef stew.  If you absolutely have to stand in a frozen parking lot at 9am, the best place to do it is at the Extremeskins Tailgate with Pez and @Huly.  Great fans, great people. 
       
      The Redskins have declared for the following players as inactive: 
      Paul Richardson  
      Colt McCoy 
      Deshazor Everett 
      Chris Thompson  
      Ross Pierschbacher 
      Vernon Davis  
      Tim Settle  
       
      The Jets declared the following players as inactive  
      Nate Hairston  
      Darryl Roberts  
      Paul Worrilow 
      Matthias Farley  
      CJ Mosley  
      Jordan Willis  
      Leo Koloamatangi 
       
      1st Quarter - Redskins 0 - 6 Jets
      If you wanted to sit in the cold and watch a football game with some Jets fans at FedEx, but were worried that there were not enough seats available, I have good news.  There’s plenty of space available, so come on down and prove you’re a real fan by sitting though this in person.
       
      Jets dominated the 1st quarter even though they only scored 6 points.  The reason being that Washington managed only 13 yards of offense and a single first down.  
       
      Question: Is it still a check down pass if the QB never looks at anyone else?
       
      2nd Quarter - Redskins 3 - 20 Jets
      The Jets have achieved an insurmountable 13 point lead early in the 2nd quarter.  All hope is lost.

      Is there a more perfect example of the Redskins offense than their first scoring drive in the 2nd quarter?  Interception gives the Redskins the ball on the Jets 16 yard line.  They proceed to march 10 yards backwards before kicking a field goal from the Jets 26.  It's perfect.  Two or three more field goals we can call it a day. 

      The Jets score again and if feels like they are are just piling on at this point.  Three touchdowns in the first half for them, just three points for the redskins.  Our streak of no touchdowns has now extended to 15 quarters. 
       
      3rd Quarter - Redskins 3 - 20 Jets
      There is a spider slowly descending from the ceiling in the press box and it's the most interesting thing that's happened during the third quarter of this game. 
       
      I have decided to allow the spider to live, provided it does not touch me.  I'm off to get some more caffeine. 

      4th Quarter - Redskins 17 - 34 Jets
      The first wave of Redskins fans, the few that are here, started streaming towards the exits after that 4th Jets touchdown.  As if the Jets didn't have this game wrapped up in the 2nd quarter. 
       
      Jet have now more than doubled their average points per game and have matched their season high of 34 points (and they missed two field goals in this game). 
       
      TOUCHDOWN REDSKINS!  THE DROUGHT IT OVER!  Guice took a short pass from Haskins  all the way to the house.  2 point conversion is successful on a pass from Haskins to Quinn. 
       
      The Redskins score another touchdown!  This feels like an embarrassment of riches, even if we are still certain to lose this game. 
       
      End of Game.
       
      Let's review those reasonable goals I mentioned earlier:
       
      1- Success.
      2- Close enough, I'm counting it
      3- Haskins did throw for over 200, but unfortunately did have an interception. 
      4- Guice was not given the opportunity to run the ball ten times today.  He did however score on a 45 yard TD pass and finish the game healthy.  I'll take it.
       
      Even though the Redskins lost, it was good to see the offense show some faint signs of life and end the streak of games without a TD.  The team looked competitive for much of the second half, and perhaps they could have made this a fun game if they carried that same energy throughout.  It was good to see Guice and Mclaurin show out today.  I think both of them have a future with this team that I look forward to seeing. 

       
       

       
       
       
       
       
PCS

Welcome to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

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He said he feels he has grown in the first weeks of the season, both in studying the offense and in running the scout team against the starting defense He said he appreciates the scout team time because it allows him to go against the team’s best defensive players, presenting a bigger challenge.

When asked if he is getting more confident, as the team’s offensive coordinator Kevin O’Connell claims, Haskins shrugged slightly.

“Yeah,” he said. ‘If I didn’t I don’t know how I would feel but I just want to keep getting better and when I get my name called I’ll be ready for it.”

During training camp, Redskins coaches expressed enthusiasm with the way Haskins learned the team’s offense and said they were happy with the way he approached his work. But they also cautioned that he was behind Keenum and Colt McCoy in terms of being ready to play in an actual game — something that was apparent in the mistakes Haskins would occasionally make in camp practices.

 

They say they continue to like the strides he has made during the season backing up Keenum, and O’Connell tried to downplay the criticism that has come up in recent days that the team isn’t preparing Haskins enough because he takes all of his practice with the second team offense.

“Those scout team reps are really mirrored reps from our offense in ways,” O’Connell said, explaining that a quarterback can learn a lot about calling pass protections and reading defenses without having to play with the first team offense in practice.

Haskins said he has been studying extra game film and meeting separately with coaches in an attempt to learn as much as he can as fast as he can.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/09/27/dwayne-haskins-wants-no-part-debate-over-who-should-start-redskins-i-can-control-what-i-can-control/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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6 hours ago, Hooper said:

Haskins needs some reps on the treadmill, that's for sure.

 

Dude looks soft.

 

And I like the kid.

 

Looks like Roethlisberger, like he can take a hit. I like that he's solid, personally. Didn't see anything in preseason to indicate his conditioning is poor. 

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I think Jay is an idiot for so many reasons but I don't get the criticism for not playing Haskins and there's a lot of this.  .  Guy played one season in college and it's September. It's entirely possible that he is just not ready and throwing him out when he is not ready is damaging short term and more importantly long term.  

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I think Jay is an idiot for so many reasons but I don't get the criticism for not playing Haskins and there's a lot of this.  .  Guy played one season in college and it's September. It's entirely possible that he is just not ready and throwing him out when he is not ready is damaging short term and more importantly long term.  

 

 

 

I think most, if they really took their emotions out of it, understand this is true. This is football, though. And all the Redskins have left us with is emotion. 

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Haskins may be the organizations only hope.  Or, best hope.

 

We think we suck on Monday nights. Penn St vs MD all time record... .39-2-1 including 24 straight. We may be a long ways from rock bottom heh. 

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1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I think Jay is an idiot for so many reasons but I don't get the criticism for not playing Haskins and there's a lot of this.  .  Guy played one season in college and it's September. It's entirely possible that he is just not ready and throwing him out when he is not ready is damaging short term and more importantly long term.  

 

 

This is where I'm at..im fine with gruden being fired..its time..his no adjustments at half when down is horrendous... but I dont understand why hes qetting criticism for not playing haskins yet...if case was playing awful I could understand...but show me one person that wants to argue the offense is to blame for the losses..

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Fat = additional padding 

 

And poundage.

 

Who was our QB that used to get gassed easily... McNabb maybe. He was up near 240.

Edited by RandyHolt

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3 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I think Jay is an idiot for so many reasons but I don't get the criticism for not playing Haskins and there's a lot of this.  .  Guy played one season in college and it's September. It's entirely possible that he is just not ready and throwing him out when he is not ready is damaging short term and more importantly long term.  

 

 

 

Because everyone knows Jay isn't giving the defense a second thought while he's busy installing the offense during the week.  OC, same.  I'd imagine the QB coach is working with the offense as well.  Who exactly is coaching Haskins while he's running scout team?  The defensive coaches?  

 

If Gruden doesn't get fired during the season...the only way he salvages his job is by Haskins getting noticeably better on his watch and igniting interest in the team.  

 

Then again, I wouldn't put it past this front office to have the master plan of handing Alex Smith the job next season. 

Edited by megared
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@megared I don’t know the answer, but Rattay and Cavanaugh are in the mix as well.  Have to also imagine there are a number of times Haskins is watching Case in action (while defense is doing drills), which is a good chance for O’Connell, or even Gruden, to be in his ear.  

 

I still go go back to Chip Kelly’s practices though.  The ability to run roughly 50% more plays in an uptempo practice gives you the option to spread more reps around to the backups.  He probably took it too far, but a dose of that uptempo work could really help this squad I believe.  

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8 hours ago, skinny21 said:

@megared I don’t know the answer, but Rattay and Cavanaugh are in the mix as well.  Have to also imagine there are a number of times Haskins is watching Case in action (while defense is doing drills), which is a good chance for O’Connell, or even Gruden, to be in his ear.  

 

I think it was supremely stupid to dress the guy as a backup if you aren't involving him in the offensive gameplan.  Had Case gone down, then what?  You're truly throwing him to the wolves.  

 

It isn't as much of a risk now that Colt is conceivably healthy enough to play, but I think we can all agree that Jay's offense doesn't prioritize keeping his QB clean.

 

The only time we have an offense with tempo and urgency is when games have largely been decided.  I can't imagine they're doing hurry up in practice much at all, since it only seems to work one drive a game.    

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29 minutes ago, megared said:

 

I think it was supremely stupid to dress the guy as a backup if you aren't involving him in the offensive gameplan.  Had Case gone down, then what?  You're truly throwing him to the wolves.  

I have a very, very hard time believing this is true.  Unless by “involved”, you actually mean taking practice reps.  Did you see O’Connell talking about Haskins as the backup?  I think it was a question about how do you know when Hadkins is ready, but he touched on (I think) some of your concerns.  

29 minutes ago, megared said:

It isn't as much of a risk now that Colt is conceivably healthy enough to play, but I think we can all agree that Jay's offense doesn't prioritize keeping his QB clean.

I’m not quite show how you mean this as we don’t go spread very often, and don’t use read option and the like very much.  Is this about how we blocked (or didn’t block) Mack?  Our qb injuries last year?

29 minutes ago, megared said:

 

The only time we have an offense with tempo and urgency is when games have largely been decided.  I can't imagine they're doing hurry up in practice much at all, since it only seems to work one drive a game.    

Totally agree, and that would be a part of my point.  You get guys used to playing with urgency when you run uptempo practices.  Guys get to the line quicker, which has been an issue.  Calls have to come in quicker (another issue).  You have more practice reps, which could help with backups getting reps, but also benefits an offense with a larger number of plays - more chance to perfect those plays (an inherent problem with this O, IMO).  

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Are those who want Haskins out there now willing to put up with some really bad football as he learns? I mean, really bad. I doubt it.

 

The same impatience that leads to calls for a switch would give Haskins very little cushion to grow.

 

It'd be better to put him out there in the context of a new coaching staff and a rebuild, where the expectations are more realistic, both in and out of Redskins Park.

Edited by profusion

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1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

I have a very, very hard time believing this is true.  Unless by “involved”, you actually mean taking practice reps.  Did you see O’Connell talking about Haskins as the backup?  I think it was a question about how do you know when Hadkins is ready, but he touched on (I think) some of your concerns.  

 

I'm thinking it's valid criticism, especially if our OC is taking time from press conferences to say how valuable it is to run scout team.  Not disputing there being value there, but I'm saying it shouldn't come at the expense of getting him ready to play.  So while Colt was not participating, was Haskins even getting backup reps if the defense is preparing simultaneously, elsewhere? 

 

*Edit* he wasn't

Quote

During practice, they have him listen in as Keenum calls plays in the huddle -- something Haskins started doing midway through camp. And, during practice, Haskins is limited to individual work and scout-team reps. He gets about 20 to 25 reps running scout team; none with the starters.

 

"I'm trying to maximize the reps because I don't get a lot," Haskins said, "and trying to figure out how to make the plays work so I can get better and make it more realistic for myself. ... Scout team is tough because it's not your plays. The defense already has an idea of what you're going to do so they're jumping stuff. You're trying to be as accurate as possible. You don't know what the reads are, so you're going by what you think will be open and you try to make the best of it."

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/39060/redskins-backup-dwayne-haskins-unfazed-patiently-awaits-his-chance

 

Right now we're getting the worst of both worlds...the coaches are busy trying to save their jobs...but we're still 0-3.  We're getting to the point where calls for him to start will only get louder.  We know Case and Colt aren't the answers. We need to figure out if Haskins is or could be...especially if our season continues on the current path. 

 

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

I’m not quite show how you mean this as we don’t go spread very often, and don’t use read option and the like very much.  Is this about how we blocked (or didn’t block) Mack?  Our qb injuries last year?

 

Not talking schemes or protections.  Just empirical evidence.  Only KC and Josh Johnson have been able to be reliably healthy week to week.  With that in mind, Case could've gone down at any point.  And who would've played then?  It was a very risky gamble, that appears to have worked out for Jay.  

 

1 hour ago, profusion said:

Are those who want Haskins out there now willing to put up with some really bad football as he learns? I mean, really bad. I doubt it.

 

The same impatience that leads to calls for a switch would give Haskins very little cushion to grow.

 

It'd be better to put him out there in the context of a new coaching staff and a rebuild, where the expectations are more realistic, both in and out of Redskins Park.

 

We're playing really bad football now.  Don't let the garbage time yards and TDs diminish that.  

 

And I'm not saying to put him out there, yet.  But developing him should be a high priority for the offensive coaching staff.  We wait on a new coaching staff to develop him, and he's halfway through his rookie contract.  And unless that new coaching staff comes in with a rebuild mandate, I don't think we're going to have the opportunity to be at the top of the draft, the way we do now.  

Edited by megared

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2 hours ago, megared said:

 

We're playing really bad football now.  Don't let the garbage time yards and TDs diminish that.  

 

And I'm not saying to put him out there, yet.  But developing him should be a high priority for the offensive coaching staff. 

 

Agreed on both counts. But you know that a couple bad performances from Haskins at this point will have people labeling him a bust and calling for McCoy. It's ridiculous, but there you go.

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3 hours ago, profusion said:

Are those who want Haskins out there now willing to put up with some really bad football as he learns? I mean, really bad. 

 

 

I think I speak for most Haskins advocates in saying "Yes, we're prepared for the growing pains".

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15 hours ago, megared said:

 

.  

 

Then again, I wouldn't put it past this front office to have the master plan of handing Alex Smith the job next season. 

They should make him the coach right now. I'd take Alex Smith in a second. 

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10 minutes ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

They should make him the coach right now. I'd take Alex Smith in a second. 

 

I'd pass.  We need fresh ideas and new perspectives.  

 

I don't want a guy to come in here and pretend like we're close.  

 

Please no more former players, or family unless they've cut their teeth elsewhere and have proven themselves.  

 

This whole continuity prioritization has progressively rotted this team. 

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6 hours ago, megared said:

 

I'm thinking it's valid criticism, especially if our OC is taking time from press conferences to say how valuable it is to run scout team.  Not disputing there being value there, but I'm saying it shouldn't come at the expense of getting him ready to play.  So while Colt was not participating, was Haskins even getting backup reps if the defense is preparing simultaneously, elsewhere? 

 

*Edit* he wasn't

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/39060/redskins-backup-dwayne-haskins-unfazed-patiently-awaits-his-chance

Do other teams routinely give their backup qbs many reps?  I thought the consensus was no.  I could be wrong of course.  

Quote

 

Right now we're getting the worst of both worlds...the coaches are busy trying to save their jobs...but we're still 0-3.  We're getting to the point where calls for him to start will only get louder.  We know Case and Colt aren't the answers. We need to figure out if Haskins is or could be...especially if our season continues on the current path. 

Yeah, I hate having essentially a lame duck coach, and even worse, a potentially lame duck GM.  To be fair, they’re not technically in their final years, but the effect appears the same unfortunately.  

Quote

 

 

Not talking schemes or protections.  Just empirical evidence.  Only KC and Josh Johnson have been able to be reliably healthy week to week.  With that in mind, Case could've gone down at any point.  And who would've played then?  It was a very risky gamble, that appears to have worked out for Jay.  

Again, if teams don’t usually give their backups many reps, then it feels like you’re barking up the wrong tree as it were.  If other teams do, then yes, Gruden is playing with fire not giving reps to his rookie backup.  

As to your empirical evidence, eh... I have trouble saying since Colt always gets injured and Alex broke his leg in a horrific way that Gruden doesn’t care about the safety of his qb.  Again, I don’t see him putting his qbs at risk the way some others do - spread offenses, lots of 7 step drops (with an iffy oline), read options, qb draws, etc.  

Quote

 

 

We're playing really bad football now.  Don't let the garbage time yards and TDs diminish that.  

 

And I'm not saying to put him out there, yet.  But developing him should be a high priority for the offensive coaching staff.  We wait on a new coaching staff to develop him, and he's halfway through his rookie contract.  And unless that new coaching staff comes in with a rebuild mandate, I don't think we're going to have the opportunity to be at the top of the draft, the way we do now.  

Agree that developing him should be a priority.  I’m not sure we have any evidence that it’s not a priority though - ie. are we treating him differently from the norm?  I don’t know that we are, but maybe.  

 

Its funny because on one hand, you have Gruden on the hot seat and therefore probably not wanting to focus on his rookie qb.  On the other hand, if he does hand the reins to Haskins performs... that might be the only way Gruden salvages his job at this point.  There’s more nuance of course (like does Gruden even want to be here anymore, and is he able to fire Manusky), but it’s still an interesting dichotomy.  

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17 hours ago, megared said:

 

Because everyone knows Jay isn't giving the defense a second thought while he's busy installing the offense during the week.  OC, same.  I'd imagine the QB coach is working with the offense as well.  Who exactly is coaching Haskins while he's running scout team?  The defensive coaches?  

 

I may be going out on a limb here but I'm thinking the quarterback coach is working with the quarterbacks.  

Edited by Darrell Green Fan
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For all the hemming and hawing over "a young QB needs to be" protected/nurtured/not used, this is our moment to ruin Daniel Jones. Prove that nurturing, vs him taking 10 chin shots  to learn to get rid of the ball and stop being a deer in the headlights, is best for young QBs. Show Haskins, yes you are best where you are.

 

I put it to you Greg.  Are you going to sit there, and let that punk ass Jones embarrass us? 

 

The moment is now.  The Skins passive front playbook has sometimes been set aside, to blitz rookie QBs early in games (after years of losing ALL games to rookie QBs).  Will Greg sit back and wait for the rookie to make mistakes, as was our playbook for ~ a decade?

 

I do, I predict he will call play scared of Jones, and further embarrass our franchise. All in on Jones in DFS like Trubby last week.

 

source.gif

Edited by RandyHolt

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25 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Do other teams routinely give their backup qbs many reps?  I thought the consensus was no.  I could be wrong of course.  

 

Again, if teams don’t usually give their backups many reps, then it feels like you’re barking up the wrong tree as it were.  If other teams do, then yes, Gruden is playing with fire not giving reps to his rookie backup.  

 

It's the situation.  Jay decided to carry Colt on the active roster for whatever unspecified purpose.  So I could see it being totally normal if you're only carrying two QBs and can't have one on the practice squad.   

 

Are McCoy, Keenum or some combination going to take us anywhere this season?  Haskins was the backup the first three weeks, and he wasn't getting any reps with the offense.  I think it's a huge jump to ask him to be able to execute the offense at the drop of a hat (especially when he isn't practicing it).   And, I don't want to draw conclusions from pictures, but let's just say there are times on the field, during gameday, where he doesn't look engaged in the chatter and coaching occurring.  

 

What would've made far too much sense, would've been to come to an injury settlement with McCoy, pick up a QB off the street...and stick him on the practice squad.   I can't imagine teams would be beating the door down to sign him, fresh off an almost year long rehab from a broken leg.   

 

41 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

As to your empirical evidence, eh... I have trouble saying since Colt always gets injured and Alex broke his leg in a horrific way that Gruden doesn’t care about the safety of his qb.  Again, I don’t see him putting his qbs at risk the way some others do - spread offenses, lots of 7 step drops (with an iffy oline), read options, qb draws, etc.  

 

Again, I felt like it was an unnecessary risk given our recent history of QBs dropping like flies.  There was no risk in cutting Colt and re-signing him once he was cleared to play.  Almost feels to me like Jay is trying to vindicate himself, by putting the guy in that he knows can execute his offense to his liking.  That or, he didn't trust the FO to re-sign him.  

 

53 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Agree that developing him should be a priority.  I’m not sure we have any evidence that it’s not a priority though - ie. are we treating him differently from the norm?  I don’t know that we are, but maybe.  

 

Going into the season, knowing he's your backup, and not getting him prepared to play is irresponsible.      

 

25 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I'm thinking the quarterback coach is working with the quarterbacks.  

 

...when the QB is around the offense.  

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I just don't see the point in throwing Haskins out there when he's still so green and when we're already such a bad team on both offense and defense. Everything a team generally wants to have in place to be able to support a rookie QB playing his first year we don't have. We have no running game, we have a hurt and ****ty OL, and our defense sucks. Oh and our coaches couldn't game plan or adjust their way out of a wet paper bag. The only rationale for putting Haskins in would be to excite the fan base but that will only last until he has 2 or 3 games with multiple interceptions and we're losing even worse than we are now. 

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