FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

No Sunday Night games two years in a row.  This time no 4 pm games either.  Wow.   I get this is a team that obviously the NFL people think do not draw viewers but MNF games at home are somewhat cruel considering the history here with them.   Maybe part of the drill is to see if they can keep losing these MNF games for curiosity sake?  🙄  We got a couple of segments on ESPN after a recent MNF loss including a spot on First Take where Stephen Smith said the Redskins should be banned from MNF.  

I will gladly sign a petition to ban home MNF games until we get a new stadium. 

 

I bet they were hoping for two young QBs leading two great defenses of franchises with a lot of history between each other.  Case ruined all that, but its all good, just win, baby.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

35 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I will gladly sign a petition to ban home MNF games until we get a new stadium. 

 

I bet they were hoping for two young QBs leading two great defenses of franchises with a lot of history between each other.  Case ruined all that, but its all good, just win, baby.

 

They scheduled that before the draft.  So no Haskins at that point.

[Mooka]

Campbell never got 3 years in the same offense though.

 

 

[NickyJ]

15 minutes ago, Mooka said:

Campbell never got 3 years in the same offense though.

 

 

You're not wrong. However, I feel like rewriting this narrative to my own version because I wanted Campbell benched for Todd Collins:

 

Teams had to change offenses every three years or less to find one Campbell could work in, and they still didn't find one.

 

[DJHJR86]

Do you know the list of quarterbacks who sat behind a 30+ year old veteran the entirety (or started 1 game) of their rookie seasons going back to 2005?

 

-Aaron Rodgers

-Brodie Croyle

-Brock Osweiler

-Chad Henne

-Garrett Grayson

-Jake Locker

-Kevin Kolb

-Kellen Clemens

-Jimmy Garoppolo

-Patrick Mahomes

 

This myth that Haskins has to sit for his rookie year and "learn" makes no sense to me.  Obviously if he is nowhere close to being ready, he shouldn't start.  But if he doesn't get any real shot this season (unless Keenum absolutely replicated his outlier 2017 season), that should be very alarming.  Because Case Keenum isn't Brett Favre or Tom Brady or even Alex Smith.

[HigSkin]

Our future!

 

 

[RandyHolt]

By process of elimination, I do hereby announce Case Keenum our undisputed starter

[KDawg]

44 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Do you know the list of quarterbacks who sat behind a 30+ year old veteran the entirety (or started 1 game) of their rookie seasons going back to 2005?

 

-Aaron Rodgers

-Brodie Croyle

-Brock Osweiler

-Chad Henne

-Garrett Grayson

-Jake Locker

-Kevin Kolb

-Kellen Clemens

-Jimmy Garoppolo

-Patrick Mahomes

 

This myth that Haskins has to sit for his rookie year and "learn" makes no sense to me.  Obviously if he is nowhere close to being ready, he shouldn't start.  But if he doesn't get any real shot this season (unless Keenum absolutely replicated his outlier 2017 season), that should be very alarming.  Because Case Keenum isn't Brett Favre or Tom Brady or even Alex Smith.

 

I feel like you keep pulling this argument out of thin air. Still haven't seen anyone posting about him needing to sit JUST to learn. 

 

1. He's not the best QB on the roster right now.

2. Our offensive line and receivers are not good, and throwing him out there with them is akin to sticking your head in a toaster.

3. He is raw and absolutely needs to learn.

 

#3 is not the only reason he shouldn't be the day 1 starter. It's just *a* reason.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Good video.  Emphasis on the first portion which is playcalling in the pre-season.  What each QB was asked to do.  He compares a few of these QB's first games and thinks some were challenged to do things more difficult, while others at times weren't.  If you don't want to watch, I can do a synopsis of the video.

 

 

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Since the starting competition is over, do they use a playbook to challenge Haskins or make things easier for him?  What do people want to see?  Him overcome difficult spots and showcase that arm, or him dink and dunk down the field?

[Malapropismic Depository]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I feel like you keep pulling this argument out of thin air. Still haven't seen anyone posting about him needing to sit JUST to learn. 

 

1. He's not the best QB on the roster right now.

2. Our offensive line and receivers are not good, and throwing him out there with them is akin to sticking your head in a toaster.

3. He is raw and absolutely needs to learn.

 

#3 is not the only reason he shouldn't be the day 1 starter. It's just *a* reason.

 

In other words, DH will end up becoming starter really soon anyway, after Keenum pulls his smoking head out of the toaster ?😃

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/patrick-mahomes-kansas-city-chiefs-rookie-quarterback-analysis-2019

 

 

interesting article that kinda disapproves the notion of sitting good rookie QBs as a good idea. 

[KillBill26]

1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

 

 

Since the starting competition is over, do they use a playbook to challenge Haskins or make things easier for him?  What do people want to see?  Him overcome difficult spots and showcase that arm, or him dink and dunk down the field?

Priority is to keep him protected, but id like to see him work under center and attack downfield.  

[MartinC]

3 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

Because Case Keenum isn't Brett Favre or Tom Brady or even Alex Smith.

 

Here is how that will work. If Keenum plays like Brady (highly unlikely) or say 2017 Alex Smith (more likely) or even 2017 Case Keenum (at least possible) then he will keep the seat warm all this season and be able to get another big deal somewhere for 2020. If he plays like 2018 Case Keenum (or worse) Haskins will be starting by week 6.

[HigSkin]

At least he'll get some reps with some of our starting Oline Thursday.

 

 

[Conn]

I've felt a little bit on an island with this recently (though maybe volsmet has mentioned it), but I have continually been impressed with what I've seen from Haskins in relation to his ability to quickly get rid of the ball from various angles. It's something I always valued in Favre and Romo, and more recently in Mahomes. Improvising within the design of the play, finding a way to defy normal throwing mechanics to find the throwing lane or avoid the flailing arms of the pass rush. It's just an instinctual thing that some guys have and some don't. A natural athleticism in the pocket that I just love, it's a great example of the valuable way a natural thrower can meld together their physical talents with their ability to process what they're seeing quickly and just react. 

 

But you don't hear people talk about it a lot, so it was kind of gratifying to see it mentioned by McVay as a trait he values in QB's in a recent Keim piece for ESPN:

 

"McVay: The biggest thing is consistent accuracy. I'm looking for accuracy, timing and location and give guys a chance to run after the catch and being able to change arm angles. That's No. 1." 

 

He considers it a basic part of being all-around accurate because he knows how rarely you get a clean pocket and how important it is to be able to make accurate, well-placed throws from different platforms. 

 

We all know that it's important he gets his footwork right for the purposes of timing, rhythm, and ideal pocket mechanics. He's not there yet. But it's also important to sometimes be able to separate the upper and lower body and just adapt to the throwing lane you have in that moment with your arm alone. I think Haskins has that. The trick is not trusting it so much that you allow lapses in footwork play to play, or trying to do everything with your arm all the time. Favre used to do that and it would get him in trouble. Romo too. And I'm sure it will come to haunt Mahomes at times. But they were also capable of incredible off-schedule throws that only a few QB's in the league would be wild enough to feel confident completing. 

 

[KDawg]

6 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

 

We all know that it's important he gets his footwork right for the purposes of timing, rhythm, and ideal pocket mechanics. He's not there yet. But it's also important to sometimes be able to separate the upper and lower body and just adapt to the throwing lane you have in that moment with your arm alone. I think Haskins has that.

 

 

I think in all of the "we should start him! NO! WE SHOULD SIT HIM" arguments, this point has been lost completely. Haskins IS making strides. Watch him versus his college tape. You can see little things. Footwork is improving. Getting used to being under center a bit. Progressing through reads (seemingly, this is tougher to see in film sometimes). He is absolutely improving, and that's due to the fact that he's getting reps.

 

To reiterate my stance on things: I am a firm believer in the best quarterback playing. Not the most talented. Not the one with the most upside. The one who is overall (financially, ability, reads, locker room presence, availability) the best quarterback on the roster. Right now that is NOT Haskins. He IS the most talented on the roster, but he's not the best QB yet.

 

And just because he's not the best quarterback on the roster right now doesn't mean he can't be the best quarterback in six weeks. It also doesn't mean that he will. The approach with Haskins, in my opinion, is simply patience. When he's the best QB on the roster, he will play. 

 

(just a note for those who use the argument: "But what if Case gets hurt!?"" - If Case gets hurt and McCoy is still on the shelf, Haskins is the best quarterback on the roster. Therefore, following my "best QB plays" mantra, Haskins plays. 

[RandyHolt]

Changing arm angles kind of flies in the face of the almost NFL mandated proper mechanics, right?

 

I think allowing QBs to make any throw needed to get through the play is wise.  Things don't go as planned lets just say about half the time. I want Haskins to practice all the types of throws he may need, to survive. Not worry about getting his feet set every time, to step into... a monster hit.  That is where mechanics purist coaches lead to their QBs getting Ramsey'd.

 

Getting rid the ball quickly in awkward situations and body positions avoids lots of bad plays, sacks sack fumbles INTs groundings and even injuries. Avoiding those is a valuable trait that doesn't really get any scrutiny.  Maybe one day the NFL will have an ambidextrous QB - a rollout king. Until then, we have Mahomes.

[LD0506]

As one of the non-experts around here, I am likin what I see outta Haskins so far. More than other teams we need a QB that can and will drive the ball deep downfield. Teams play us up close because they aren't worried about defending the deep pass. This kid can throw the **** out of it.

 

At the same time he needs to learn, needs to learn some humility about playing in the pros, needs to get the focus to produce in a game in a way he never did in college. I have no problem with Keenum starting, and tbh I am amused at just how dismissive so many are about him. The O line makeup and TE blocking worry me more than who is under center.

 

Pre-draft no one, and I mean NO one, gave us a chance in hell of doing anything this year, for a raft of reasons. Now I seem to see a faction trying to argue their fantasy into existence because, well, Haskins! Take a breath people. We will claw our way up around .500 at best, but if along the way the kid sees some live action, the rook WRs get their feet under them and the D comes together it will be worthwhile. There is some serious young talent growing on this roster. For all intents and purposes this is Guice's rook season, we have a couple O linemen that need to bring somethin, Montez-freakin-Sweat might make this season worth watchin by himself. 

 

Big picture.......... we get to January and none of the younguns are in traction somewhere and it will probably pay dividends in years to come.

[SkinsGuy]

19 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Since the starting competition is over, do they use a playbook to challenge Haskins or make things easier for him?  What do people want to see?  Him overcome difficult spots and showcase that arm, or him dink and dunk down the field?

 

I just want see continued progress in his game.

 

If they need to simplify things for him, fine, but I don't see that they need to.

 

My guess is (and it is strictly a guess ) is that we will see Haskins throw a lot this week.

 

The RBs, I think, are pretty much set. I think Gruden wants to see what Haskins can do. I expect dink and dunk drives and shots down the field. Could be interesting.

 

Last week seemed like it was mainly about getting Guice the carries he needed to get back into the flow of the game.

 

This week, it might Haskins time to shine.

[DJHJR86]

19 hours ago, KDawg said:

I feel like you keep pulling this argument out of thin air. Still haven't seen anyone posting about him needing to sit JUST to learn. 

 

1. He's not the best QB on the roster right now.

2. Our offensive line and receivers are not good, and throwing him out there with them is akin to sticking your head in a toaster.

3. He is raw and absolutely needs to learn.

 

#3 is not the only reason he shouldn't be the day 1 starter. It's just *a* reason.

Points 1 and 2 have been repeatedly addressed in this thread.  What difference does it make if Haskins starts week 4 behind a weak o-line as compared to week 1?  And is the raw Haskins going to suddenly accrue knowledge sitting for 4-5 weeks behind Keenum that would make him more polished instead of week 1?  Point 3 is also odd considering that if he does not play a snap all year, this is simply delaying his rookie year (along with the struggles) to 2020.  The sooner he plays and gains game experience, the better.  

[KDawg]

37 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Points 1 and 2 have been repeatedly addressed in this thread.  What difference does it make if Haskins starts week 4 behind a weak o-line as compared to week 1?  And is the raw Haskins going to suddenly accrue knowledge sitting for 4-5 weeks behind Keenum that would make him more polished instead of week 1?  Point 3 is also odd considering that if he does not play a snap all year, this is simply delaying his rookie year (along with the struggles) to 2020.  The sooner he plays and gains game experience, the better.  

 

We keep playing the circle game here.

 

My answer hasn't changed.

 

Difference: Starting expectations vs. back-up expectations. Best QB vs. not best QB (injuries occur, he becomes the best QB and therefore needs to be on my field). Knowledge of where guys are supposed to be with a little more time to marinade vs. not knowing and exposing himself to hits for holding the ball (and he WILL do this if he's not sure where to go with it). I can go on and on, but I won't.

 

Can 4-5 weeks make a difference? Yes. Without a doubt. I've seen it. I've experienced it. 100% absolutely yes it can make a gigantic difference. There isn't even a debate here.

 

Is getting game experience while not being aware of the playbook entirely and getting your ass kicked routinely worth the risk of ruining his psyche/body? You think yes. I think no. Apparently, neither of us are changing our minds

[dballer]

My hope is that we can stay somewhere around the .500 mark, with the defense and run game carrying us and Keenum looking like the obvious weak link. Have Haskins come in week 5 sitting at 2-2. Patriots at home. Then off to the races!

[Gurgeh]

51 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Points 1 and 2 have been repeatedly addressed in this thread.  What difference does it make if Haskins starts week 4 behind a weak o-line as compared to week 1?  And is the raw Haskins going to suddenly accrue knowledge sitting for 4-5 weeks behind Keenum that would make him more polished instead of week 1?  Point 3 is also odd considering that if he does not play a snap all year, this is simply delaying his rookie year (along with the struggles) to 2020.  The sooner he plays and gains game experience, the better.  

 

Given the strides Haskins has made in the pre-season I would think an extra 4 to 5 weeks would make a lot of difference. The first part of our season looks tough on paper so if Haskins is going to miss games the start would be the ones to miss. Getting pummelled into the turf week after week is not going to be good game experience; if the OL turns out to be better than expected then maybe he can come in sooner, but if the OL is a sieve then there's ample evidence of bad OLs ruining promising QBs and he should sit until the schedule is easier.

[JaxJoe]

27 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Can 4-5 weeks make a difference? Yes. Without a doubt. I've seen it. I've experienced it. 100% absolutely yes it can make a gigantic difference. There isn't even a debate here.

Agree. It’s also expected that the OL will improve, too, as we’ve witnessed these past several weeks. So, that should help. But folks keep forgetting the Haskins has demonstrated that he is a good student - probably one of the brights QB minds I have ever heard or seen. So, being in the QB room for game planning each week should be even more beneficial than most. And, Haskins will get to play scout QB every week. He should definitely progress.