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Granted, if Keenum were to magically replicate the outlier season he had in 2017, we wouldn't have to worry about Haskins starting at all.  But if we get the Keenum from last year (and every other year in his career), we are looking at Haskins starting by week 5.  

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Just now, KillBill26 said:

We have already implemented that "brilliant" scheme, it's actually hand off, hand off, throw, punt, watch your overworked defense run out of gas

 

#DontThrowTheRookToTheWolves

Not with the double headed monster that I first mentioned in early camps that we didn't have at those times..you watch black n blue punch mouth football ****in riggins so jazzed he's out on the field high fiving absolutely stoked about what he's seeing guice dragging 2-3 players down the field while his Jersey is being torn off

...I want some of Wentz's Jersey from week 1 kerrigan..here's looking at you bud!!..yaaa go skins I'm pumped can't wait for the season let's get it on!!!

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3 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

Not with the double headed monster that I first mentioned in early camps that we didn't have at those times..you watch black n blue punch mouth football ****in riggins so jazzed he's out on the field high fiving absolutely stoked about what he's seeing guice dragging 2-3 players down the field while his Jersey is being torn off

...I want some of Wentz's Jersey from week 1 kerrigan..here's looking at you bud!!..yaaa go skins I'm pumped can't wait for the season let's get it on!!!

Love the enthusiasm brother, there are so many elements of this team I'm excited to watch, and I like Haskins potential.  Should be a fun season!

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5 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Granted, if Keenum were to magically replicate the outlier season he had in 2017, we wouldn't have to worry about Haskins starting at all.  But if we get the Keenum from last year (and every other year in his career), we are looking at Haskins starting by week 5.  

That's exactly what looks like is going to happen, imo, and I can live with that.  In my head I know seeing him go up against someone like the Patriots will be brutal but absolutely invaluable from an experience standpoint.  The way BB will gameplan against Case will be nothing like how he would gameplan against Haskins, telling Haskins to watch the Pats demolish Case wont have the same value as getting demolished himself and learning from his own mistakes.

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15 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

We have already implemented that "brilliant" scheme, it's actually hand off, hand off, throw, punt, watch your overworked defense run out of gas

 

#DontThrowTheRookToTheWolves

 

We really know how to punt that ball though don’t we?  Watch out Philly, TressWay is coming!!!

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4 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

Love the enthusiasm brother, there are so many elements of this team I'm excited to watch, and I like Haskins potential.  Should be a fun season!

Not trying to turn this into the pump ya up thread(I already pulled the good juju thread out for that lol)but if Callahan(kind of known as a big deal on the o line front)can put together just a decent enough line we could win some games this year

1 minute ago, Vanguard said:

 

We really know how to punt that ball though don’t we?  Watch out Philly, TressWay is coming!!!

Dont forget about way..joke around about the special teams all ya want but when the d is scoring from fumble recoveries and pick 6's yall be thanking tress..

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Any of you get the feeling we're damned if we do and damned if we don't?

 

Colt Mccoy, Case Keenum, and a very inexperienced raw rook.

 

It's been nice knowing you, Jay Gruden.

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37 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

The way BB will gameplan against Case will be nothing like how he would gameplan against Haskins, telling Haskins to watch the Pats demolish Case wont have the same value as getting demolished himself and learning from his own mistakes.

 

What do you think DH will learn from playing against the Pats that he won’t learn playing against Miami?

13 minutes ago, Chachie said:

Any of you get the feeling we're damned if we do and damned if we don't?

 

Colt Mccoy, Case Keenum, and a very inexperienced raw rook.

 

It's been nice knowing you, Jay Gruden.

 

I get the feeling we stink. Yes. 

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We haven’t won anything since most of us were making our own mix tapes & still we have these lively pre-season discussions. 

 

#httr

 

 

71F3E21B-4418-44AA-9F3D-CC3158D16480.gif

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26 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

What do you think DH will learn from playing against the Pats that he won’t learn playing against Miami?

 

 

Oh man, really?

 

BB is the hands down present day master at eliminating your primary strength as an option and then attacking your primary weakness relentlessly.  Some defensive coordinators have a defense and blame their players on not executing it (like Hasllet), no New England will show on tape where he really is better then anyone.

 

Like Browns play the Pat's this year, incoming reality check.  A lot of people wondered what Mahomes could do against the Pat's and he took them to the absolute limit basically changing the conversation on his tier as a QB in this league.

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1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Oh man, really?

 

BB is the hands down present day master at eliminating your primary strength as an option and then attacking your primary weakness relentlessly.  Some defensive coordinators have a defense and blame their players on not executing it (like Hasllet), no New England will show on tape where he really is better then anyone.

 

Like Browns play the Pat's this year, incoming reality check.  A lot of people wondered what Mahomes could do against the Pat's and he took them to the absolute limit basically changing the conversation on his tier as a QB in this league.

 

Yes, really. That’s the matchup I most look forward to. Miami has the gentleman responsible for much of the success NE had a year ago & few in the NFL believe there is a tougher coach to scheme against that Flores. Miami will have a tough defense, they’ll confuse QB’s more than NE will. 

 

Peyton faced Bill 900 times & each time it was a bit different, there isn’t a great deal you can extrapolate from one game v NE to the next matchup with anyone else ... or even your next matchup with NE. I don’t see any extraordinary value DH will be able to take with him from being obliterated (your assumption) by NE; Not much is gained in absolute annihilations.  

 

I don’t think many doubted that Mahomes would light up N.E. after what Alex Smith had done to them the year prior, but I didn’t follow the lead up for that matchup particularly closely. Phenomenal couple games between those two last year... unbelievable. N.E. does get torched with some regularity... Cam, Watson, Smith, Mahomes (twice), Jay Cutler ...

 

It is my belief that DH needs to sit until we see the left side of the line gel for a couple games & DH knows enough of the playbook to give us a better shot to get the ball where JG wants it to go. The latter could be today, we haven’t seen DH face an nfl defense yet. I don’t believe your argument is without merit, I’m genuinely interested in what you want to see DH gain v NE. I’ll gain something from everyone’s opinion, whether I end up in agreement or not, it’s all interesting... agreeing/disagreeing is inconsequential.

 

 

1B1DD536-85F3-4B6A-B7BB-512C318999AB.gif

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4 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 but I feel like it's gone round and round.  

 

Keim was just saying based on his inside sources how Haskins has always been #3 on the depth chart, not just as a 'preseason technically' but in reality as well.

And it was considered a 2-man competition between Case and Colt, until Colt got hurt.

He also said the organization strongly feels that he has, and always has had a long way to go, to be NFL-ready.

Then you factor in Haskins hasn't had a single start in preseason, or any work with the 1's.

So, considering all that, the debate really shouldn't go round and round like you say.

As it seems clear that Jay is intent on starting Case on Game 1, even though he won't publically say so.

 

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39 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Keim was just saying based on his inside sources how Haskins has always been #3 on the depth chart, not just as a 'preseason technically' but in reality as well.

And it was considered a 2-man competition between Case and Colt, until Colt got hurt.

He also said the organization strongly feels that he has, and always has had a long way to go, to be NFL-ready.

Then you factor in Haskins hasn't had a single start in preseason, or any work with the 1's.

So, considering all that, the debate really shouldn't go round and round like you say.

As it seems clear that Jay is intent on starting Case on Game 1, even though he won't publically say so.

 

 

Sounds like a solidly ran organization. I support their plan. 

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3 hours ago, Chachie said:

Any of you get the feeling we're damned if we do and damned if we don't?

 

Colt Mccoy, Case Keenum, and a very inexperienced raw rook.

 

It's been nice knowing you, Jay Gruden.

 

I dont. Not with this defense. Like every other team in the league staying healthy is everything. If this defense stays healthy we are a dangerous team to play. As long as Case can protect the football. Cant have that garbage turnover like last night.

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30 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

I dont. Not with this defense. Like every other team in the league staying healthy is everything. If this defense stays healthy we are a dangerous team to play. As long as Case can protect the football. Cant have that garbage turnover like last night.

 

We will get shredded through the air, imo. Our LBs & safeties can’t cover, our #1 corner is Dunbar & our #2 is probably Jimmy... Norman is awful, our LBs are atrocious, our DTs can’t impact the passing game with enough regularity to win much.

 

Norman on #1s will mean Cooper is always open. What Ertz & Desean will do to us ... 

63680986-99C0-44D0-A725-6A5CA15D8715.gif

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7 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

We will get shredded through the air, imo. Our LBs & safeties can’t cover, our #1 corner is Dunbar & our #2 is probably Jimmy... Norman is awful, our LBs are atrocious, our DTs can’t impact the passing game with enough regularity to win much.

 

Norman on #1s will mean Cooper is always open. What Ertz & Desean will do to us ... 

I can't decide which meme to use in response to this.  

 

Sarcastic?

 

Image result for so you say there's a chance meme

 

Or play it more straight...

Image result for So tell me how you really feel

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1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Keim was just saying based on his inside sources how Haskins has always been #3 on the depth chart, not just as a 'preseason technically' but in reality as well.

And it was considered a 2-man competition between Case and Colt, until Colt got hurt.

He also said the organization strongly feels that he has, and always has had a long way to go, to be NFL-ready.

Then you factor in Haskins hasn't had a single start in preseason, or any work with the 1's.

So, considering all that, the debate really shouldn't go round and round like you say.

As it seems clear that Jay is intent on starting Case on Game 1, even though he won't publically say so.

 

There was never an attempt to get Haskins ready to start.  The attempt was to get him as familiar as possible with the offense so he could be the emergency 3rd QB and learn for next off-season.  Which I guess I'm ok with as a plan, though I would have handled it differently.

 

What I would have done is commit to Haskins as the starter, and then figure out what he can do which will lead him to success, and then drill that constantly.  Adapt the system to what he can do.  And if there is NOTHING he can do at the NFL level, then you picked the wrong guy. It would be on the coaches to figure out what he can do and how he can have some success, get a lot of things on film, and learn from it.  I just am not in the school of sitting helps you develop.  I think playing is the best way to develop.

 

What I think is going to happen is Hasknis won't play until the 'Skins are eliminated from playoff contention.  If Case struggles and Colt is healthy, he'll go in until he's hurt again.  Then they'll go back to Case.  Then when finally there is nothing to play for, they'll give Haskins a shot.

 

I understand the desire to win and that they think Case and Colt give them the best chance. I actually think they could come up with a way to get as much productivity out of Haskins, and use his physical abilities.  However, that would mean being creative, and that's not something this staff, top to bottom, has shown.  

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I think most journeymen QB's (like Case) who start over a 1st round rookie tend to get flustered, make mistakes (push opportunities to stave off the young guy), and wind up benched or hurt earlier than we all would've guessed when the season started.

 

Tyrod, McCown, and Maddox come to mind.  I think Case Keenum is going to be another like that.

 

Haskins is raw, sure.  But is Keenum noticeably better in pre-season despite being not "raw"?

 

Not advocating Haskins starts Week 1.  Just saying the logic behind Case gives us a better shot at the playoffs is, in my opinion, a misguided line of thinking.

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8 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

Going back to 2019 (and not counting last year's draft) the following QB's were taken in the first round and also saw significant (8+ starts) play time in their rookie year:

-Stafford

-Sanchez

-Bradford

-Gabbert

-Freeman

-Ponder

-Newton

-Luck

-Griffin

-Tannehill

-Weeden

-Manuel

-Bortles

-Bridgewater

-Winston

-Mariota 

-Wentz

-Trubisky

 

There really is no set formula to predict the whole "sit and learn" theory that keeps getting thrown around.  Does anyone really think that if Weeden would have sat out for a year he'd be some elite level talent still in the league?  Or if Newton didn't start week 1 as a rookie that he would be out of the league by now?  You either have it or you don't.  

To your first point, that use to be the norm back in the 80's and 90's but that was only because college football didn't run the pro style offense's that they run today. Today's college athlete comes into the NFL much more PRO ready then they did back in the 80's which is why you see guys like Mayfield, Darnold & Trubisky already on the cusp of being elite. Lamar Jackson was equally impressive although not as advanced as the other 3 you saw the flashes of greatness. 

 

  To your second point , i agree 100%. I said this in another post, If Haskins can or can not play I want to know right away, not in week 15 or next year or in 2020. We went down that road with Jason Campbell  , next year he will get it, No next year will be his season, Nope next yea... and so on and so on. Its sink or swim.

 You don't have to have a perfect team or even win games to go out there and show you have what it takes to be a franchise QB in your rookie season, You just need to show flashes and I think Haskins is capable of that.

 

   But sitting your 1st round QB behind the likes of Colt McCoy and Case Keenum, Sitting your first round QB who threw 50 td's in his final college season like he is some kind of "long term project" Thats just crazy talk. And if he is a "project QB" then shame on us for reaching so early.

 

  You guys can flame this last comment all you want but Daniel Jones was lights out in preseason..... Jones was suppose to be the project sit & learn guy, not Haskins

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I wasn't a Daniel Jones guy to say the least predraft but still thought he was more pro ready than Haskins.  Much more college experience among other things.  I watched Jones' first two games but haven't caught up with the third yet.  Judging by the highlights from yesterday, Jones made some tough throws in that one.  The first two games I think the dude's performance was way overrated -- mostly easy safe passes with really good protection.  In college Jones can dink and dunk with the best of them.  But struggled with anything past 10 yards. 

 

Granted I know the Giants gave Jones some reps with the first stringers especially as to their O line.  But the saddest thing for me watching the two of them has nothing to do with either QB but about their protection.  

 

Gettleman has been lampooned plenty and some if it IMO is deserved though some of it undeserved IMO because he's been rebuilding their O line among other things.  They might have one of the better interior O lines in the league now.  I think the much maligned Giants O line might be better than ours now.  In the first two games i watched Jones had plenty of time to throw.  Not the case for Haskins.  

 

And wow has the NY media and Giants fans enjoying crapping on Haskins since camp started.  They've gone from thinking that Jones is a bum to him being the next Tom Brady and Haskins is now Ryan Leaf.  I think they've way overreacted to the preseason.  But who knows.  Will see. 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Nice Rant Jake! Post of the day candidate.  I appreciate mentioning colleges are producing much more pro ready QBs than ever before, as it doesn't get discussed here but has quietly been a big factor in the modern day QB. 

 

While I think Haskins is raw I do think its a mistake to sit him behind McCoy and Case unless those 2 are leading us into a playoff run.

 

The skins have to evolve past drafting 1 QB and praying. It is such a vital part of a team, averaging drafting one every 5 years is a recipe for failure, worse than the fail rate of the modern QB themselves.

Edited by RandyHolt

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49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I wasn't a Daniel Jones guy to say the least

 

 

I want Daniel Jones to suck more because of your DJ posts than because of how much I hate the Giants. 

 

Preseason #’s mean 2 things:

Jack

&

🤫

44 minutes ago, HigSkin said:
 

 

Near misses shouldn’t negatively impact a scouts impression of a rookies night at all. 

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