volsmet Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 9 hours ago, RandyHolt said: Reality is that Lauvao and Trent would also allow sacks. I dont think Geron is ready and will not start. Reality is, Jay played v Lauvao in his division as the Bengals OC & wanted to add him. Trent is a top 20 player in the nfl. Everyone allows sacks, but those guys had proven they knew their assignments & could get the job done at a level we could prepare a game plan around. GC has not seen anything. Flowers is at a new position. I find it a bit frustrating that anyone, including our coaches, would consider starting DH in game 1. It’s not just taking sacks - it’s how quickly a hit gets there while DH has his back to the line on a play fake that’s not communicated properly ... there are a billion variables and exactly zero of them favor DH starting in Philly. We can’t lose anything by sitting him, we can’t gain anything by starting him... we can lose ... him, by starting him. Humans... oy vey. Not you... you’re phenomenal, RHolt, truly; ... but others... they trouble me. 🤔 It’s not just the physical in taking hits/sacks, it’s the ptsd that humans don’t recover from after experiencing an overwhelming amount of trauma in circumstances that were impossible to prepare for. The mind is at far greater risk than the body — but both are infinitely more vulnerable if we force this. Just let the kid take in the game and see what the left side of our line is ready for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 For Haskins to start game 1, unless am forgetting a reporter, it would mean that every beat reporter has Jay's intentions wrong. So either Jay is playing games or there is another voice weighing in. Still, I'd be stunned if Haskins starts. 5 hours ago, Veryoldschool said: Wouldn't it be nice if we believed it is Gruden's decision to make. Lol, that's Kevin Sheehan's take to a tee. Personally, i don't know. I'd assume and hope its Jay. Dwayne if Dan asks to join you next time you go bowling, just say no! 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I don't think even Dan would force Jay to start Haskins on day 1. Jay has already named McCoy his guy. Case is on the case now and Dan coming in at the 11th hour would be obvious. Jay wouldn't be able to hide it at the podium. Maybe Dan knows this I could see him (and other owners) pushing to see him when the season is off the rails, say week 6 to 8. He wouldn't be alone he could join my protest. DH was not a finished product by even my stretch of the imagination and dare I think, even Dan has a basic grasp of that as well, after witnessing 2 decades of futility. Its very early still August - we don't even have an OL assembled, our ace LT has decided not to report, our starting QB is already injured, and starting Haskins is low down on the immediate list of fires that need to be put out. @volsmet thanks great posts as usual and keep up the gifs as it helps keep our collective anxiety about the upcoming season in check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Normally, if it's an actual QB competition, don't you alternate reps with the 1's in pre-season? Keenum has started with the "1st team" both games so far. He's likely doing it for the 3rd game. It was Colt and Case alternating with the 1's and 2's for most of training camp. Haskins was primarily with the 3's but was getting sporadic work with the 1's and 2's. With Colt hurt, my impression (and I could have misread), was that Case was with the 1's and Dwayne with the 2's. No real changes. TL;DR: Competition is over, Case Keenum is starting Week 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 40 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said: Normally, if it's an actual QB competition, don't you alternate reps with the 1's in pre-season? Keenum has started with the "1st team" both games so far. He's likely doing it for the 3rd game. I've heard reputable reporters say at the beginning of camp, that even though no coaches have actually said this, that it was "Colt's job to lose". And with Colt being hurt, I think it defaulted to then being Case's job to lose. So, like you said, it doesn't seem like an even-fielded QB competition. Again, this is speculation, but events have now supported what those reporters have said, and what you're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COWBOY-KILLA- Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Dan should not be involved in any decision regarding the QB. Hoping Case plays well this week and puts the conversation to bed. Reports suggest we’ve already made our decision. But if Case struggles w/ the ones this week and DH plays well then idk anything can happen. I’m ok sitting DH till Jay feels comfortable putting him out there, hopefully it’s sooner rather than later. If we are winning and playing well w/ Case this whole issue may become moot. Hope we have that problem. I’ve accepted we prob won’t see #7 the first quarter of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 What in Jays tenure supports Dan chooses the starter? History tells the direct opposite. I mean, Colt has had how many chances to take over this team 3 or 4 times lol. He’s a JAY GUY! Jay liked Kirk, Kirk started. Jay didn’t like Kirk, Kirk left via free agency. Jay has more clout than some give him credit for and pure speculation on my part, he must have a solid relationship with Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COWBOY-KILLA- Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I’m also not completely convinced that Jay is completely convinced on who gives him the best chance to to win, Case or Dwayne. So If he went with DH I would not be totally shocked or insist it’s a move by Danny Boy to get what he wants. Jay hasn’t been in a rush to anoint Case at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 4 hours ago, wit33 said: What in Jays tenure supports Dan chooses the starter? History tells the direct opposite. I mean, Colt has had how many chances to take over this team 3 or 4 times lol. He’s a JAY GUY! Jay liked Kirk, Kirk started. Jay didn’t like Kirk, Kirk left via free agency. Jay has more clout than some give him credit for and pure speculation on my part, he must have a solid relationship with Dan. Where exactly did you get this???? Everything I saw through the entire stupid ****ed up drama was that Jay wanted Kirk here. Not once in all the 1000s of articles, interviews, tweets (that others posted) or anything did I see Jay did not like Kirk. If I missed I missed it. Could you please provide references. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Quickly watching DH this morning & on the first drop back, Flowers saved his life after GC nearly got him killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 For all the QB talk, most important positions might still be LT and LG. If they're truly awful, doesn't matter if Aaron Rodgers was back there, it'd be ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Oh Ereck, what a job you’re doing. Flowers blocks 2 guys, handing his initial assignment off to GC & picking up his new assignment smoothly ... DH gets sacked, but Flowers ... tremendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I rewatched the game, too. Flowers was OK. Geron from what I can tell played poorly. As for Dan dictating playing time. I suspect that he won't in this case. My thought is even if he's hankering for Hankins, it would be dumb for him to insist he play before he's ready. Bad for Haskins but it would also be a bad PR move for him if Haskins started and looked bad. As for Dan in the past? No way to know for sure. But off the top of my head, his rodeo on this front according to reporters at the time. A. Starting Jeff George B. Spurrier starting Ramsey at some juncture after him playing his UF Qbs C. When RG3 got hurt and was coming back in 2014, supposedly Dan insisted RG3 start against the Vikings even though Jay didn't want to. D. There was some talk that Jay wanted to start Colt in 2015 but others in the building wanted Kirk. though that specifically wasn't laid at Dan. Is all of this true or not? You got me. But there was talk about it at the time. I am not too worried about Dan this time because I presume if it were true he should have learned his lesson. And I see no upside for Dan to insist on starting Haskins at the start of the season. 7 hours ago, wit33 said: Jay has more clout than some give him credit for and pure speculation on my part, he must have a solid relationship with Dan. One insider here mentioned they heard that Jay has joined the gang so to speak as one of Dan's drinking buddies. Jay is a pretty affable guy. As a number of beat guys, Phillips, Finlay, etc say -- Jay is a master of playing the office politics at Redskins Park and that's an underrated value of him as HC that the next dude might not be equally adept at. Ironically when I went to Morton's one night at Richmond, I talked to a waiter who has met Jay multiple times who comes to the bar there. He mentioned Bruce is a regular there. I didn't ask about Dan but that's supposed to be his place, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 *Geron Christian is the worst football player I’ve ever seen in my life. Back to Dwayne Peyton Brady, master class. This ball is deflected, but this was my favorite moment of the evening live, other than the TD pass of course... but this shows something more significant in that DH has this coverage diagnosed & beaten the second the ball is snapped, he’s preparing to rip the ball to a spot his wr looks like he’s going to vacate — Haskins is in his motion before the WR has set up... getting the ball to a guy this early, with that much room, is where the best WRs can turn short passes into big gains & it’s made possible when your QB has prepared thoroughly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Great grabs thanks for the wednesday morning QB. Until our QBs find their footing I think it would be prudent for our OL to commit holding penalties anytime they are burned, which opens the door to use our MVP Tress Way, way more. Give him lots of room to boom. Our teams coverage lapses, aside. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Quote One insider here mentioned they heard that Jay has joined the gang so to speak as one of Dan's drinking buddies. Jay is a pretty affable guy. As a number of beat guys, Phillips, Finlay, etc say -- Jay is a master of playing the office politics at Redskins Park and that's an underrated value of him as HC that the next dude might not be equally adept at. A speculative post- I think Jay is a dude full of self awareness, living his truth, and knows he and family are set for life, no matter what. He doesn’t care about the politics of it all, and has ability to adapt and make the best of an environment. I lean towards Jay having ultimate authority over the choice of QB. Organizations that have a QB in range 11-25 are faced with more difficult decisions and when saddled with forecasting the position, most head coaches value decreases, due to human nature of wanting to win now and emotional attachment to certain players. This is when I’m okay with a group decision (yes, this includes the owner) being made about the QB for now and the future and how to find a happy medium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just out of curiosity, which person is having the greatest input on Haskins' growth right now : Smith Rattay O'Connell Cavanaugh Gruden There's others that have input, of course, but I don't think they could be considered as the greatest input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 4 hours ago, wit33 said: A speculative post- I think Jay is a dude full of self awareness, living his truth, and knows he and family are set for life, no matter what. He doesn’t care about the politics of it all, and has ability to adapt and make the best of an environment. I'll add to the speculative part as to the two dudes (Finlay and Sheehan) I recall that have elaborated as to why they've heard Jay is good at playing Redskins office politics. It was more or less if he doesn't get what he wants, he doesn't pout or make ultimatums and instead just rolls with the punches and moves on with what's put in front of him. He also isn't an ego guy so he doesn't get into the behind the scenes ego battles for credit, etc like supposedly others do there. And he's an easy going nice guy who is hard to dislike. Playing with the set for life comment from you, some (Sheehan and Russell in particular) have said they heard that Jay's approach to this season is with an almost he doesn't care what happens attitude as for what happens to him. They implied he's a bit burned out from the scene here so there is an upside to staying and for that matter going. So he has nothing to lose. I am guessing Sheehan's source to this is Cooley but I don't know. 4 hours ago, wit33 said: I lean towards Jay having ultimate authority over the choice of QB. Organizations that have a QB in range 11-25 are faced with more difficult decisions and when requiring a forecast most head coaches value decreases, due to human nature of wanting to win now and emotional attachment to certain players. This is when I’m okay with a group decision (yes, this includes the owner) being made about the QB for now and the future and how to find a happy medium. I am guessing too Jay has the authority. Like I said, I can't see what benefit Dan would get from Jay telling him Haskins isn't ready but Dan insisting Haskins start anyway. Unless am missing something, Haskins getting off to a rough start would be bad for business. Also, it seems like Haskins is a different dude from RG3. From some accounts, RG3 was impatient and didn't like to sit and had a pipeline to Dan to carp about it. Haskins on the other hand seems patient and I presume and hope he doesn't have an easy pipeline to Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Small sample size so i don't make much of it. For what its worth, I guess Case looked good when he had a clean pocket. Question is are these QBs going to have clean pockets much this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 10 hours ago, goskins10 said: Where exactly did you get this???? Everything I saw through the entire stupid ****ed up drama was that Jay wanted Kirk here. Not once in all the 1000s of articles, interviews, tweets (that others posted) or anything did I see Jay did not like Kirk. If I missed I missed it. Could you please provide references. Ya man, nowhere will it say Jay didn’t like Kirk or sour on him, but it was just the overall energy and vibe I gathered during Kirk’s tenure. Sure, some of it was related to the drag out process of Kirk’s contract situation, but it seemed there was philosophical differences of how to approach the QB position. Jay made it public wanting Kirk to be more aggressive overall. Jay doesn’t appear has process oriented as Kirk. I believe much of this comes down to how you roll in everyday life and Jay/Kirk are two totally different people. Now, I totally understand coaches and players don’t have to be wired the same, but Jay being a former QB and an offensive coach it certainly would help. It wasn’t terrible, they enjoyed some success, especially when Mccvay was with Kirk. What are your thoughts on how each approach the game? Go Haskins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportjunkie07 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 16 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said: I've heard reputable reporters say at the beginning of camp, that even though no coaches have actually said this, that it was "Colt's job to lose". And with Colt being hurt, I think it defaulted to then being Case's job to lose. So, like you said, it doesn't seem like an even-fielded QB competition. Again, this is speculation, but events have now supported what those reporters have said, and what you're saying. Colt has shown he is not 1st string quality in the NFL. He has shown that he is a competent backup when healthy. He hasn't been healthy and you don't go out and sign a stopgap qb for no reason; you probably don't start a rookie qb with 1 yr of college ball either. Case was always going to be the day 1 starter unless dh balled out. Colt was starter in name only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I'll add to the speculative part as to the two dudes (Finlay and Sheehan) I recall that have elaborated as to why they've heard Jay is good at playing Redskins office politics. It was more or less if he doesn't get what he wants, he doesn't pout or make ultimatums and instead just rolls with the punches and moves on with what's put in front of him. He also isn't an ego guy so he doesn't get into the behind the scenes ego battles for credit, etc like supposedly others do there. And he's an easy going nice guy who is hard to dislike. This might be true, and it might make him able to hang around, but it hasn't really done much to make the team win. 2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Playing with the set for life comment from you, some (Sheehan and Russell in particular) have said they heard that Jay's approach to this season is with an almost he doesn't care what happens attitude as for what happens to him. They implied he's a bit burned out from the scene here so there is upsides to staying and for that matter going. So he has nothing to lose. I am guessing Sheehan's source to this is Cooley but I don't know. If it's true he's burned out and doesn't really care one way or the other, upside to staying and leaving, then I wish he would just defer the stupid stuff to Bruce, in public. "Jay, any update on the Trent situation?" "Yeah, that's between Bruce and Trent. You'll have to ask either of them." That would be basically dropping dynamite, which he hasn't ever really done. I doubt Bruce would, at this point, fire Jay, and it would force Bruce out a bit. Maybe. 2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I am guessing too Jay has the authority. Like I said, I can't see what benefit Dan would get from Jay telling him Haskins isn't ready but Dan insisting Haskins start anyway. Unless am missing something, Haskins getting off to a rough start would be bad for business. Also, it seems like Haskins is a different dude from RG3. From some accounts, RG3 was inpatient and didn't like to sit and had a pipeline to Dan to crap about it. Haskins on the other hand seems patient and I presume and hope he doesn't have an easy pipeline to Dan. I think the decision is going to be a group decision. I think Dan, Jay and Bruce will all get together to make the final decision. I can't believe I am saying this, but the "right" thing for Dan to do is to tell Jay that his primary focus for the year is to develop Haskins, and that is more important than trying to go 9-7 and squeek into the playoffs. And WHATEVER Jay thinks is the right way to do it should be done. Play him now, play him later, that's on Jay to decide, but the goal is to develop Haskins this year so we don't have to develop him next year. And Jay's job is not tied to wins/losses and the playoffs, but to the performance and development of Haskins. They should set the expectation they expect close to a championship calibre defense, but they recognize on offense with a new QB, it's going to be tough sledding. I really like the Peyton manning situation comparison, and I've used it before. The Colts were a BAD team when they drafted Manning. Evidence being they had the first pick in the draft. The Colts decided to start him right away, (clearly, as the #1 overall pick), and they knew he would struggle. They created an offense which could simplify both the offense and defense for him, and they got him a lot of experience. They ran a lot of hurry-up. They simplified the line calls. They moved the pocket. And they relied on their best player, Faulk, and the running game. In that first year of Peyton in 1998, they had a "meh" OL, 1 WR (Harrison), and 1 RB (Faulk), and that was basically it. Granted, Harrison and Faulk are better than any WR/RB the 'Skins have. BUT, the 'Skins probably have more options. Reed, VDavis, Guice (if healthy), AP, CT all can make plays. (The question is, of course, can any of these guys except for AP stay healthy?) Honestly, the 2019 'Skins are a better team top to bottom than the 1998 colts. Now, I'm not saying Haskins is Manning, or even can be Manning. But what I am saying is that if you do some of the same things (and maybe some new ones) the Colts did for Manning, it's a great way to develop a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: Small sample size so i don't make much of it. For what its worth, I guess Case looked good when he had a clean pocket. Question is are these QBs going to have clean pockets much this year. True, but it looks like only one of those stats was based on a clean pocket. But 3rd preseason games holds the most weight, and adds larger sample size, so let's revisit that after Thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 14 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said: This might be true, and it might make him able to hang around, but it hasn't really done much to make the team win. I'll refrain from the usual back and forth debate here about Jay to keep things cool. 😀 I'll just say if Jay hasn't made the team a winner what does that say about all the other bum head coaches we've had here considering the last three years have been the high water mark under Dan. Some national reporters (Garafalo, Breer) have implied be careful what you wish for. That is, they have doubts that this team can do better than Jay. They both like Jay and think he's a good coach and said he has a good reputation among the people they speak to. But part of how they explained it came off like this team isn't considered an attractive place for big hires. They made that 2nd point subtly. Laconfora hit the same point like a sledge hammer saying with Bruce in the fold they are flat out an unattractive destination and will struggle to hire big names. My point is if you want Jay gone and want an attractive Plan B -- I still think you need Bruce gone, too. Unless it's all about O'Connell. I'd presume they can hire him without hiccups. I am fine with O'Connell. He's intriguing. But I don't see any new HC as the savior unless they put a real GM in charge of this team. I don't think it's a random coincidence that no coach under Dan has been a winner. I get the idea that Dan hired big names in the past and its certainly possible that he could pull that off again. But the difference I think now is Bruce if he's still here is cheap and seems to prefer dudes that he's tight with. Also, there is a bigger sample size about Dan now than years back that might make some candidates more wary than years ago. I'll just say this, I don't care who the collateral damage (including Jay) is if Dan wises up and puts a real GM in charge and lets that person make the calls. Hopefully that's Kyle Smith. 14 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said: That would be basically dropping dynamite, which he hasn't ever really done. I doubt Bruce would, at this point, fire Jay, and it would force Bruce out a bit. Maybe. Amidst that narrative (especially from Russell) that relationship with Bruce and Jay isn't what it once was. Ditto according to him Jon Gruden and Bruce. According to him there is some tension. But yeah if he's on the way out, I wouldn't mind him taking out Bruce at the same time. Though that's more Shanny's style. Shanny can play the passive aggressive spitting match game with that FO tit for tat. I am guessing Jay doesn't roll like that. but who knows? 14 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said: I can't believe I am saying this, but the "right" thing for Dan to do is to tell Jay that his primary focus for the year is to develop Haskins, and that is more important than trying to go 9-7 and squeek into the playoffs. And WHATEVER Jay thinks is the right way to do it should be done. Play him now, play him later, that's on Jay to decide, but the goal is to develop Haskins this year so we don't have to develop him next year. And Jay's job is not tied to wins/losses and the playoffs, but to the performance and development of Haskins. They should set the expectation they expect close to a championship calibre defense, but they recognize on offense with a new QB, it's going to be tough sledding. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaseCommander Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Has anyone in any of Jay's pressers asked him if DH will get anytime with the 1's in the preseason game against Atl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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