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Welcome to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

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I'm in the sit him camp.  For a few reasons.

 

Obviously, he's talented.  No denying it.  I think he'll be a good QB we can win games with.  Elite?  Possibly.  But it's obvious to anyone he's just not ready yet.

 

Don't want him getting hit.  I know there was just a big debate on that but I just don't want him taking abuse if it can be avoided.

 

Don't want to put him in a position that's less than ideal.  Yes, adversity is good but...I want the guy to be in a situation where he can flourish.  And maybe that means waiting until the oline performs better (I don't think Trent is coming back).  Waiting until one of these receivers steps up and plays really well and becomes a legit #1 option this year.  Waiting until the running game is legit and defenses have to respect it.

 

I understand, we want to see the shiny new toy, we want to see the big arm, we want to see something exciting.  Case isn't any of those things.  Neither was Alex.  Haskins is a good dude with a good head on his shoulders.  He's smart, he's hard working, humble.  I just want to see him succeed and I don't want to see the Redskins do anything to ruin it.  

 

Put it this way:  It's not like the Redskins have the best track record of drafting and developing quarterbacks.  They just don't.  And I know that statement spans a lot of different coaching staffs and personnel people that don't have to do with one another, but still.  Add it all up.  

 

It's certainly not confidence inspiring.  So...yeah.  I just want them to handle Haskins in a different way.  

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11 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Here's the thing. OLs suck everywhere outside of some elite programs. Chances are most every if not all QBs have dealt with crap pass pro low snaps blown blocking assignments 3rd and forevers their entire lives.  And gotten their clocks cleaned. Yet weren't ruined, right?   If they make it to the NFL chances are they have passed the hit test.

 

Just to piggyback on your thought, when has the Redskins O-line ever really been elite?  Their run blocking has always been abysmal.  We've always seen free rushers coming at the QB early.  The O-line will NEVER be perfect so the argument that the team can wait until they get it just right is a non-sequitur.  It will neve reach that end state.  There will always be break downs and injuries.

 

I'm more concerned with Jay and Callahan's stubbornness of trying to make Vernon Davis or Jordan Reed block in the run game - SPLIT THEM OUT!!!  The unimaginative play calling on 1st down is far more concerning to me than throwing DH into the fray early.  

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35 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Don't want to put him in a position that's less than ideal.  Yes, adversity is good but...I want the guy to be in a situation where he can flourish. 

 

And maybe that means waiting until the oline performs better (I don't think Trent is coming back). 

The Oline is what it is.  It can only improve so much.  It isn't as good as last year without Trent (that's an understatement) but overall I like the depth and the way they seem to be progressing.  You have 4 bodies now for two positions.  If you watch the film there was improvement.  The most glaring error was on Roullier who whiffed on the twisting DE.  Heck, it shocked me but if you watch film Flowers was much better this week than last week.  He's a damn beast.  Martin is a better technical player but between the two of them we'll be okay.  Geron is getting better each week as he gets his leg right and Penn is solid.  

 

Waiting until one of these receivers steps up and plays really well and becomes a legit #1 option this year. 

That's a chicken and egg situation.  How good will the receivers do if the defense doesn't respect the long ball?  You can't just run crossing routes all day.  We haven't seen DH with the best receivers yet.  Especially with the secret weapon (McClaurin).  

 

Waiting until the running game is legit and defenses have to respect it.

HA!  You dream my friend.  Ever since Callahan came over I have been waiting on the run game to be legit.  The only success they have ever had is when AP breaks a tackle.  The TE blocking is God awful and Jay is too damned stubborn to change up his scheme.  So we'll always be looking at 2nd and 3rd and long; minus the occasional broken tackle that leads to a chunk play.  

 

 

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Posted (edited)

 

For generations of football fans in these parts, beaten into apathy by a perpetually stumbling franchise, it showed hope of what might be to come. Might the Skins finally – after churning through high picks like Patrick Ramsey and Jason Campbell and RGIII and still not far removed from the Kirk Cousins saga – have a young, talented quarterback to build around? Haskins certainly flashed, and while he still has much to learn and the nuance of protections and checks and adjustments will most surely lead to him starting the season on the bench … it won't be for all that long (I'm still thinking around Week 6).

Haskins acquitted himself well, looking left and to the middle before taking off and running for positive yards when there was nowhere to go with the ball on his first drop back. Then he just missed a big gain on a nice play-action, again moving his eyes but just throwing the ball a little high (no issues with the velocity on that one, however – his ball oozes zip). Haskins entered late in the first quarter and went the rest of the way, going 7-for-14, missing a few open receivers down the right sideline later in the game, and was under pressure quite a bit, settling for one intoxicating highlight in the end.

"Dwayne shows flashes," Gruden said. "There were a couple of shots he rushed a little bit and didn't put enough air under it. But this is all a process for him. It was good to see him get out there and take some hits here and there and have him do the protections and get the running game going, call the plays. It's just the presentation that I am interested in right now."

With Williams trade inevitable, OL a massive concern

As I first reported back months ago, left tackle Trent Williams is entrenched in his position that he will never play for the Skins again, and if anything, the front office's ham-handed approach to his holdout has only exacerbated things. He does not trust this team's brass or its medical team, and a trade is inevitable. Numerous contending teams are interested, and the situation with Williams, based on everything I have heard, is past the point of no return....

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-insider-notes-dwayne-haskins-shows-why-he-wont-be-on-the-bench-for-long-redskins-and-bengals-ol-woes-grow/

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

David Carr vehemently disagrees with you.

 

I agree with @Veryoldschool, a rb able to lower a shoulder at the point of contact and is able to recognize when contact is coming is different than a QB who is a sitting duck.  I know it's easy to say that it's vital for a QB to stand strong in the pocket and not hear the footsteps, but if a young QB is constantly getting hit, you absolutely do run the risk of it both mentally and physically affecting him negatively.....

 

Here's the thing. I think a coach asking a developing young QB to stand tall in the pocket, is the core problem.  Is that using them to the QBs strengths? Obviously not, if that is what leads to them failing.

 

I hope you saw Fitzmagic lowering the shoulder. They are all not blindside hits. WRs get smoked. TE's.... anyone in the passing game. When they fail we don't even think to consider those hits as a factor.  Corners get steamrolled by pulling OL.  Guys get hit when not expecting it numerous times per game. QBs and OL after INTs were always smoked. The Dallas twist blitz has engaged linemen getting blindsided in the ear hole.

 

Carr started on an expansion team.  Not a great example perhaps but he eeked out a 10 year career which certainly is nothing to scoff at.  Perhaps expectations were simply too high on him? Draft slot HEAVILY dictates expectations IMO.  Players are victim to their draft slots through no fault of their own, influenced by depth of position in that year, teams needs, dumb GMs reaching in a thin QB class etc.

 

Folks that want him to sit have no pulse of how quickly he is picking up the playbook, blitz pickups, concepts etc, nor do we even know what Jay is asking him to do.  If he has aced all the mental things needed to protect himself, it's time.  The rest is up to Jay to not hang him out to dry with dumb play calls making his life much more difficult.

 

Starting with running AP into a brick wall on first down over and over, making Haskins face 3rd and long.  Jay MUST be much more unpredictable if he is going to use Haskins with the core intent to keep his jersey clean.

 

I think an offense largely featuring quick passes is a safe environment for a rook, including roll outs to buy time to get guys deep. 

Edited by RandyHolt
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When you ask a rookie QB what he needs to work on and he says presnap, that shows you a level of maturity that's needed and its something you wouldn't normally hear from typical rookie QB's.

 

I've always believed that intelligence can elevate and mask other deficiencies and Haskins is smart across the board if you listen to anyone who's spoken to him down to his test scores he's the smartest QB we've had here in years so let's not underestimate that.

 

Goff and Tribisky were bad in their rookie years but maybe that was necessary and part of what made them very good in their 2nd years.

 

Just start him in the next game and let's see where that takes us.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

 

 

Young QBs can now play and thrive, as they all absorb hits. They really can.  Those that survive took the same hits the ones that don't, did.  Nature over nurture, nature always wins.

 

 

Andrew Luck would like a word with you. 

Edited by ddub52
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The QB that relies on the short quick passing game is the modern day game manager. The quick passing game is a must in today’s NFL and when done with precision can be highly efficient and effective (ie. Brady and Brees) and be a huge support to an offense, but the better QBs consistently take shots, exploit small holes, and attack all levels of a defense (short, intermediate, and deep). For Haskins he will have the unique ability to attack all levels and sideline to sideline as well. Exciting!

 

My belief is Jay and staff will want to push Haskins to see all levels of the field and attack defenses versus simplifying the game and developing average level QB habits. Jay has been dying to have a guy push the envelope and strike fear into a defense (me too). I’m biased as this aligns with what I only want or would pay top dollar for in a QB. For example, Ryan Finley’s performance was average, due to the level of throws and lack of attacking style, but his stats looked good.

 

I guess, this a long form answer to saying I support Jay waiting until he feels Haskins will have the ability to protect himself and confident to be aggressive within the scheme. I don’t want the rookie checking down on 3rd and 8, because he doesn’t know where to go with the ball. Now, obviously learning will take place and must on the field, but finding the happy medium is the key. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, ddub52 said:

Andrew Luck would like a word with you. 

 

Sweet. I would ask him if he would be a better player had he not played a snap his first 2 months.

 

Too bad his OL has been terrible throughout his tenure.

Edited by RandyHolt

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Excellent Saturday afternoon reading on the ES — good points all around... the season nears & ...start or sit, DH is the shot of enthusiasm/hope our fan base has needed. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

I would like that. I would ask him if he would be a better player had he not played a snap his first 2 years.

 

Too bad his OL has been terrible throughout his tenure.

That’s kind of the point though. Without Trent, our o line is a mess right now. I don’t want Haskins to end up like Luck. Luck has taken a lot of hits and has had an injury plagued career thus far. You can’t play well if you can’t play at all. He literally missed a whole season due to injury. An argument could be made that he may have been better off sitting for a while. 

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Posted (edited)

IF Dwayne Haskins is the real deal, the clock has already begun on our optimal Superbowl window with him in today's NFL. We have 5 seasons before he will require an enormous, franchise altering and roster-effecting contract. Maybe less. Two of those seasons will already be "wasted", cap-wise, by the Alex Smith contract albatross. Does that mean we can't win once he's been paid? Of course not. But stacking the roster around a rookie contract QB is a proven, efficient, and effective strategy. Every snap we are not trying to win a SB with a roster built around Haskins, is a wasted snap--big picture. 

 

Opinions vary on whether the best and fastest way to start winning games with Haskins is to throw him in early, or let him sit. I think both arguments have great merit. 

 

But there's no denying that the clock is ticking. In an ideal world, 2021-2024 will be our optimal window to win that 4th Lombardi trophy--Smith off the books, Haskins developed and still on his  rookie contract, etc. We need the right FO and coaching staff in place by then, so let's hope things go well on that front ASAP--Kyle Smith needs a promotion, and Gruden needs to find his groove or be replaced by an offensive guru with a Haskins mancrush sooner than later--you need an offensive mind to tie to Haskins that can't be hired away, so it has to be the HC. Nearly any competent DC would be an upgrade with the talent we'd hand them on D. 

 

This is ALL assuming Haskins is the real deal...but there's no fun in speculating otherwise, at least until he gives me reason to.

 

But it's the first time that I've been able to realistically chart a potential path back to the SB since at least 2012...and that's something. 

Edited by ConnSKINS26
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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, ddub52 said:

That’s kind of the point though. Without Trent, our o line is a mess right now. I don’t want Haskins to end up like Luck. Luck has taken a lot of hits and has had an injury plagued career thus far. You can’t play well if you can’t play at all. He literally missed a whole season due to injury. An argument could be made that he may have been better off sitting for a while. 

Yep.  He has taken a lot of abuse. Sitting him year 1 may have prolonged his career a year, but then Indy lost a dirt cheap year of an  excellent QB. So there is a trade off to sit a guy. including, you still don't know what you have at years end.  Was Indy's OL much better his 2nd year? Or, did his great play with a year under his belt make his OL look better. It's a give and take sometimes.

 

Injuries ARE going to happen. I actually think fearing injury is a bad thing... positive thoughts!  But injuries happen to the durable guy, to the new guy, to the vet and to the guy in the peak of his career.  Football is a hardcore game and while I openly admit a QB having a full grasp of anything that may make his job safer is wise to pursue, do think experience trumps a lot of that.  Haskins lacks experience maybe more than any 1st round QB I can ever recall.  He needs reps and sitting just kicks the can down the road, and sit out a deep QB draft in 20.

 

Anyone else remember Alex Smith's very first snap in preseason?  A horrible long slow developing play in which Alex got crushed. I remember after the game Jay admitted it was a dumb call putting his QB in too much risk for the potential reward. 

 

Jay holds the key to Haskins future.  That big ole grin on the TD to Davis showed Jay's hand. He wants the Haskins deep ball in his offense.

Edited by RandyHolt
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1 hour ago, ddub52 said:

Andrew Luck would like a word with you. 

 

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Sweet. I would ask him if he would be a better player had he not played a snap his first 2 months.

 

 

Let it be known. RandyHolt is intimidated by noone. Not even the best of NFL quarterbacks. And will stop at nothing to ask them the tough questions.

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

You can thank Samaje "loss of 1" Perine for that.

Ya..he seems to stop/drop and roll on hearing "Hike". No vision for holes/creases

 

Jay didn't help with his play calls either. I know it's preseason but even vanilla has *some* color

 

I'd like to see some more "planned" rollouts for DH. He looks very comfortable throwing on a rollout. Runs allot better than advertised.

 

Edited by The Hangman- C_Hanburger
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Samaje may be playing his way off this team despite how much Jay seems to go out on a limb for him.

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50 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Samaje may be playing his way off this team despite how much Jay seems to go out on a limb for him.

 

He really hasn’t done much at all with the opportunities given. Totally uninspiring performances, the clock is ticking on him.

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1 minute ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

 

He really hasn’t done much at all with the opportunities given. Totally uninspiring performances, the clock is ticking on him.

In his defense, Jay has been right on occasion when he demands extreme patience for some. He basically let Ryan Grant sit on the bench for nine years, but when he played him on the tenth Ryan produced. Same with Chris Thompson. Thompson sat on injured reserve for three years running and when he finally played was damn good.

 

Will he be right if given enough time with Perrine? Does he have enough years to stash him on the roster without playing him for Samaje's light to turn on?

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1 hour ago, Burgold said:

Samaje may be playing his way off this team despite how much Jay seems to go out on a limb for him.

 

It would seem that way, but the health status of our other RB's (Guice, Love, Wilson) may force an opening for him

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Samaje Perine is the Colt McCoy of Ryan Grants.

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57 minutes ago, Burgold said:

In his defense, Jay has been right on occasion when he demands extreme patience for some. He basically let Ryan Grant sit on the bench for nine years, but when he played him on the tenth Ryan produced. Same with Chris Thompson. Thompson sat on injured reserve for three years running and when he finally played was damn good.

 

Will he be right if given enough time with Perrine? Does he have enough years to stash him on the roster without playing him for Samaje's light to turn on?

 

Hes got the ability no doubt, but for me it’s his vision and feel for the position that I haven’t seen improve since he’s been here. He does have two games of 100+ yds and over 4.2/carry his rookie season but overall that’s it. He’s definitely on the bubble in my book, and would be lucky to stick around.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

If you take the aggregate of our 3 QB's...then, yes.

 

Not taking avg of. One QB that can start all 16 games that has been a starter for the team for the past x amount of years. We have been aggregate for far too long...lol

 

Haskins needs to start the season if Keenum becomes a non-factor. 

Edited by zskins

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