FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Califan007 The Constipated]

5 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

If you really believe the players' quotes actually reflect their true opinion I have no idea what to say to you.  

 

So you think it's impossible for both Young and Moses to actually feel like they have Haskins' back? Is that what you're saying?

 

 

1 minute ago, Hooper said:

Sounds like they have his back while also being frustrated by his lack of his work ethic. 

 

What part of their quotes indicated they felt frustration?

[HTTRDynasty]

3 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

Just about every QBs % is higher and its as much a function of how much things have changed in the game over a short period of time than anything else.

 

I've heard this excuse when comparing him to QBs from the 2000s.  Don't tell me fans are trying to use the same excuse when comparing QBs from the 2010s as well.  Yikes.

 

5 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

Accuracy can be improved many ways.  "Touch" is a different animal though and its what I think most people really mean when they say Haskins lacks accuracy.  He could improve his fundamentals and understanding of the playback and route concepts to better his completion %, but learning how to drop a ball down the chimney they way Wilson does is not a learned trait.  You either got it or you dont.

 

Who said Haskins needs to have elite touch like Wilson?  He can still improve his accuracy to the degree Allen, Tannehill, Carr, etc. did and be a more effective QB.  None of those guys have Wilson-like touch.

[Hooper]

8 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

So you think it's impossible for both Young and Moses to actually feel like they have Haskins' back? Is that what you're saying?

 

 

 

What part of their quotes indicated they felt frustration?

 

Moses saying DH has a lot of learning to do. 

 

But whatever.

 

I just hope DH sucks it up and moves forward -- if he does that, he'll get another chance. Here or somewhere else. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

[wit33]

2 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Moses locking in that final year of his deal  

 

Nah, Moses has been great on the field this year and has developed into a great leader for the team. Good to have some guys outwardly backing the coach right now. It’s been about as ugly of a start as can be for Rivera and company. 

[86 Snyder]

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I've heard this excuse when comparing him to QBs from the 2000s.  Don't tell me fans are trying to use the same excuse when comparing QBs from the 2010s as well.  Yikes.

 

 

Who said Haskins needs to have elite touch like Wilson?  He can still improve his accuracy to the degree Allen, Tannehill, Carr, etc. did and be a more effective QB.  None of those guys have Wilson-like touch.

 

Its not an excuse, the game is tremendously different than it was even a couple years ago.  Coaches embracing analytics have watered down what was already a fairly useless stat in completion percentage.  

 

What I'm saying is not all "accuracy" is created equally.  The truly great QBs have innate touch.  The others you named are serviceable or better, guys you can conceivably win with, but what trait do they all have in common?  They work incredibly hard and are completely dedicated to improving.  And what trait above all else has Haskins been regularly criticized for lacking?

 

So we've got a guy without the touch the great ones posses and low accuracy exacerbated by his poor fundamentals.  The path out of that swamp requires the one thing he lacks above all else.  What are we hoping for again?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

3 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Good to have some guys outwardly backing the coach right now. It’s been about as ugly of a start as can be for Rivera and company. 

 

"Yeah, but what else is he supposed to say? If you really believe the players' quotes actually reflect their true opinion I have no idea what to say to you."

 

I was told that somewhere lol...

[Conn]

15 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

"Yeah, but what else is he supposed to say? If you really believe the players' quotes actually reflect their true opinion I have no idea what to say to you."

 

I was told that somewhere lol...

I get that you’re poking fun, but it’s different to go on for paragraphs enthusiastically, hard to know what the rest of the context of those other sentences about Dwayne were of course. 
 

But as anyone who has watched or read Bill Belichick answer questions knows, you can tell when he’s giving a good, thorough, enthusiastic response and when he’s pushing the boilerplate coach speak. Same here possibly. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

3 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

I get that you’re poking fun, but it’s different to go on for paragraphs enthusiastically, hard to know what the rest of the context of those other sentences about Dwayne were of course. 
 

But as anyone who has watched or read Bill Belichick answer questions knows, you can tell when he’s giving a good, thorough, enthusiastic response and when he’s pushing the boilerplate coach speak. Same here possibly. 

 

The quote about Rivera was not reduced for a tweet, it was attached as an image to include Moses' entire statement. The quotes about Haskins were summarized to fit the format of tweets. They may have said more (not sure), but that would/could be a difference.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Sounds to me like they realize Dwayne’s a good dude, that has a lot of work to do if he wants to play in this league.

 

Which isn’t far off from what many of us think.  While we may poke fun about his tummy aches and clear immaturity, it’s not like he comes off as a bad dude.  Situations like his benching can serve as a reality check and could end up being the best thing to happen to him.  Time will tell. But his agents tweet, him unfollowing the team and coaches, and now the mysterious illness, that his coach has to talk about way too much, is not getting off to a great start.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Sounds to me like they realize Dwayne’s a good dude, that has a lot of work to do if he wants to play in this league.

 

Which isn’t far off from what many of us think.  While we may poke fun about his tummy aches and clear immaturity, it’s not like he comes off as a bad dude.  Situations like his benching can serve as a reality check and could end up being the best thing to happen to him.  Time will tell. But his agents tweet, him unfollowing the team and coaches, and now the mysterious illness, that his coach has to talk about way too much, is not getting off to a great start.

 

Ain't that the truth (the part in bold especially).

 

[HTTRDynasty]

25 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

Its not an excuse, the game is tremendously different than it was even a couple years ago.  Coaches embracing analytics have watered down what was already a fairly useless stat in completion percentage.  

 

Average completion percentage since 2012 (the year Tannehill came into the league): 62.5%

Average completion percentage in 2019: 63.5%

 

Yeah, so watered down.

[ggarriso]

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Sounds to me like they realize Dwayne’s a good dude, that has a lot of work to do if he wants to play in this league.

 

Which isn’t far off from what many of us think.  

 

I mean I don't necessarily think he is a "horrible human being with bad intentions" but I do think he is a spoiled entitled brat, with a extremely fragile mentality, who is not a good teammate or football player and has major issues including maturity issues and has not shown respect to his teammates or coaches.  I don't think he is Jeffrey Dahmer or anything, but I do wish that Snyder had never stuck his nose into our draft board

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 minutes ago, ggarriso said:

 

I mean I don't necessarily think he is a "horrible human being with bad intentions" but I do think he is a spoiled entitled brat, with a extremely fragile mentality, who is not a good teammate or football player and has major issues including maturity issues and has not shown respect to his teammates or coaches.  I don't think he is Jeffrey Dahmer or anything, but I do wish that Snyder had never stuck his nose into our draft board

 

 

Right, but you haven’t been around him either.  Not every one of my friends is a super dedicated hard worker at their job, but they are still my friends.  It’s possible to like and respect people that are flawed.  Don’t we all have friends/colleagues that could do way better, but we still like them anyways?

 

But yeah, it would have been better for everyone involved had Dan stayed out of the football stuff.  Imagine that?

[86 Snyder]

27 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Average completion percentage since 2012 (the year Tannehill came into the league): 62.5%

Average completion percentage in 2019: 63.5%

 

Yeah, so watered down.

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers.  If you take page 1 of passing leaders in 2020 off nfl.com and compare it to page 1 off 2012:

 

2020- 67.44%

2012- 61.75%

 

So yeah, watered down.

 

Thats the top 25 for each year btw.  The split gets more dramatic the more you shorten the list.  

[HTTRDynasty]

17 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers.  If you take page 1 of passing leaders in 2020 off nfl.com and compare it to page 1 off 2012:

 

2020- 67.44%

2012- 61.75%

 

So yeah, watered down.

 

Thats the top 25 for each year btw.  The split gets more dramatic the more you shorten the list.  

 

I went with the latest full-year data we have rather than comparing full-year data to a 5-week sample size.  I used every team's full-season completion rate on TeamRankings.com, since 2012.  You said it was heavily watered down from even a couple of years ago.  Yet, the difference in completion percentage from 2012 to 2019 is not meaningful compared to the 2019 average.

 

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

So you think it's impossible for both Young and Moses to actually feel like they have Haskins' back? Is that what you're saying?

 

 

 

What part of their quotes indicated they felt frustration?

Not at all, I believe the support is legit.  What I am questioning is their comments such as "he has a lot of football left" etc.  They saw all the things both staffs saw.  I just don't believe they believe he will be great some day as your posts seems to imply.

[joeken24]

So I'm listening to John Keim's podcast interview with Darrell Green. Very interesting take by Darrell on Haskins. I'm paraphrasing, but Darrell basically said he had no issue with the Haskins benching. He pretty much said it would give Haskins time to reset. Darrell also mentioned that there is a bit of arrogance in Haskins that needed to be knocked down a bit for him to be able to listen. He said maybe Haskins just needs a little bit of adversity to readjust his mindset. So that got me to thinking about Urban's conversation with Ron. Urban told Ron to challenge Haskins. Maybe this is the challenge. We'll see how Haskins reacts. 

 

https://www.radio.com/podcasts/john-keim-report-26257/darrell-green-joins-the-pod-and-explains-how-hed-handle-the-qb-situation-347941516

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/ron_rivera_talked_to_urban_meyer_about_coaching_dwayne_haskins/s1_127_32788208

 

So beyond the inaccurate passes and the situational football concern (which is expected from a rookie type QB), there is a couple things I noticed that lines up with what Darrell was saying:

 

1. Study habits during the game: Haskins does not seem to have a relationship with the Surface pro. I have seen just about every QB in the league on the sidelines with it....not Dwayne. I've seen Zampese with it. I've seen Kyle and Alex with it. In between possessions, I see Dwayne sitting on the bench or talking with other players. Now this could be my own issue and it may not be the case since the camera is not on the sideline long. But I can say it's not right after the proverbial 3 and out this offense seems to experience often. I even remember Haskins saying to a reporter after a loss that he's played QB since he was 10 years as if to say that he's arrived. Sheesh.

2. I'll let this video tell it. But the staring issue obviously came up during the Browns game, yet Haskins could have taken sound advise during training camp about this very issue. But notice the back and forth Haskins has with the guy Ron brought in to help lead and show this young team how Ron like things done. I'm sure Thomas Davis spoke with Ron about this bull****. Davis probably said, hey coach Ron, I'm trying to help him but he don't want to listen. And sure enough, he goes out, stares a receiver down and throws a pick. I wonder what the conversation was like on the sideline? It was obviously riddled with more denial based on the post-game answer he gave to the reporters after the game.

 

I've dealt with young people that have potential but have trouble listening. If you've done the same, you know how exhausting that can be. Darrell said, he would bring Haskins back after a game or two. I'm inclined to agree if Haskin has that come to jesus moment. Ron has said publicly that he has not given up on DH. I believe him. I actually think this is Ron's old school/military upbringing at work. First phase for all you Marine's out there. Tear 'em down, build 'em up.

 

Go to the 1:08 mark.

 

 

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

27 minutes ago, joeken24 said:

I've dealt with young people that have potential but have trouble listening. If you've done the same, you know how exhausting that can be. Darrell said, he would bring Haskins back after a game or two.
 

 

 

I think he's far from being ready for that change, though.

[mistertim]

lol  In that video above I just now noticed what he said when Thomas Davis came over to him...

 

Thomas Davis: "Hey..."

Dwayne Haskins: "What you want?"

 

Man, when I first saw that video it irked the hell out of me. Haskins was being so dismissive and borderline disrespectful to Thomas Davis. Now with the "What you want?" it's even worse. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

@joeken24 Thomas Davis discussed back in August on some radio show (forgot which one) that Haskins later on apologized after watching the film. 
 

It’s worrisome though that he made the same mistake during the browns game. 

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

lol  In that video above I just now noticed what he said when Thomas Davis came over to him...

 

Thomas Davis: "Hey..."

Dwayne Haskins: "What you want?"

 

Man, when I first saw that video it irked the hell out of me. Haskins was being so dismissive and borderline disrespectful to Thomas Davis. Now with the "What you want?" it's even worse. 

Interesting. That’s not how i took that at all. It didn’t sound like a mean “what do you want”, at least to me. To me, it sounded like he was seriously wondering what Davis wanted to talk to him about. Nothing wrong with that. 

[ggarriso]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Man, when I first saw that video it irked the hell out of me. Haskins was being so dismissive and borderline disrespectful to Thomas Davis. Now with the "What you want?" it's even worse. 

 

borderline? hes being a dick, thru and thru

[Malapropismic Depository]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

lol  In that video above I just now noticed what he said when Thomas Davis came over to him...

 

Thomas Davis: "Hey..."

Dwayne Haskins: "What you want?"

 

Man, when I first saw that video it irked the hell out of me. Haskins was being so dismissive and borderline disrespectful to Thomas Davis. Now with the "What you want?" it's even worse. 

 

3 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

@joeken24 Thomas Davis discussed back in August on some radio show (forgot which one) that Haskins later on apologized after watching the film. 
 

It’s worrisome though that he made the same mistake during the browns game. 

Interesting. That’s not how i took that at all. It didn’t sound like a mean “what do you want”, at least to me. To me, it sounded like he was seriously wondering what Davis wanted to talk to him about. Nothing wrong with that. 

 

It goes beyond the "What you want"

When Davis told him he was staring down receivers so extreme, that it could get them hurt in a violent hit, Haskins reply is "What if you;re wrong ?"

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

@joeken24 Thomas Davis discussed back in August on some radio show (forgot which one) that Haskins later on apologized after watching the film. 
 

It’s worrisome though that he made the same mistake during the browns game. 

Interesting. That’s not how i took that at all. It didn’t sound like a mean “what do you want”, at least to me. To me, it sounded like he was seriously wondering what Davis wanted to talk to him about. Nothing wrong with that. 

 

Guess it just depends on who's watching. The entire conversation immediately came off to me as dismissive and somewhat disrespectful. At least hear the guy out; he's trying to help and he's not being a jerk about it...it's not like he was coming  up and talking smack. 

 

And yeah that's the same sort of dismissive attitude Haskins had when he refused to admit that he stared guys down in the Browns game. That presser annoyed me too. Dude just refused to take responsibility for his poor play.

[Cooleyfan1993]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

Guess it just depends on who's watching. The entire conversation immediately came off to me as dismissive and somewhat disrespectful. At least hear the guy out; he's trying to help and he's not being a jerk about it...it's not like he was coming  up and talking smack. 

 

And yeah that's the same sort of dismissive attitude Haskins had when he refused to admit that he stared guys down in the Browns game. That presser annoyed me too. Dude just refused to take responsibility for his poor play.

The part that i think was bad was where he pretty much told Davis he’s wrong (although to his credit, he did apologize later on). The correct response would’ve been something like “yeah I’ll try to work on that”. 
 

 

3 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

 

It goes beyond the "What you want"

When Davis told him he was staring down receivers so extreme, that it could get them hurt in a violent hit, Haskins reply is "What if you;re wrong ?"

Yes that later part is definitely the more concerning part.