Est.1974 Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 God now we have Morgan Moses chirping up. Package them together in a trade and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 1 minute ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said: God now we have Morgan Moses chirping up. Package them together in a trade and be done with it. What about Young?...Package him in, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 Snyder Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 2 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said: Ryan Tannehill: 58% completion rate his rookie year; 60% completion rate his second year Josh Allen: 53% completion rate his rookie year; 59% completion rate his second year Derek Carr: 58% completion rate his rookie year; 61% completion rate his second year And now: But I was told accuracy couldn't improve as a player developed... For reference: Dwayne Haskins: 59% completion rate his rookie year; 61% completion rate his second year You are confusing completion percentage with on target percentage. They're not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Just now, Califan007 said: What about Young?...Package him in, too? I actually think its cool seeing the guys stick up for him. Im all over the place with this kid. I wanna root for him but then he does stuff and I dont anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, Califan007 said: What about Young?...Package him in, too? Nah that’s a more credible statement from a very recent college and now NFL teammate. Moses has a track record of talking crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggarriso Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Young, Moses, and "Simba" for the #1 overall - draft Trevor - i'd do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 These guys speaking up for Haskins is good. It doesn’t mean they think he’s a great option right now, and it doesn’t mean that they don’t think that. It’s just guys coming out and supporting a dude they like. That’s a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Just now, Llevron said: Or hes actually standing up for him and we are all blowing this our of proportion. Its still possible this is all legit and Ron thinks we are all bat **** crazy for acting like....extreme washingtons. When I defend my nephews cause they mess up I almost always refer to them as young men because thats exactly what they are and they sometimes act like it. I mean, I still think the stomach bug thing is BS. But I have been very wrong about pretty much everything else so far so why stop now? You very well could be right. I often go with my internal percentages and when I feel one way or another at or beyond 85% I’m willing to throw some conjecture out there. Not a conclusion, as avoid those at all costs. I’d say you’re in the 5-10% range/doubtful, but there’s a chance. OBJ was just sent home for a sickness unrelated to COVID, so there’s that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said: Nah that’s a more credible statement from a very recent college and now NFL teammate. Moses has a track record of talking crap. Speaking up for a guy, in this case, isnt moses talking crap. It’s him standing up for his teammate. As @KDawg said, that’s a good thing (hey look, something we both agree on!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 I'm not sure what the player's quotes are being supplied. Players always stick up for their teammates, if you think player quotes actually reflect their real opinion you are sadly mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Darrell Green Fan said: I'm not sure what the player's quotes are being supplied. Players always stick up for their teammates, if you think player quotes actually reflect their real opinion you are sadly mistaken. Yeah. Probably just them saying the right thing to the media, instead of saying “he sucks/his career is done/coach has given up on him/ETC”. No good can come from giving their actual thoughts to the media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said: Speaking up for a guy, in this case, isnt moses talking crap. It’s him standing up for his teammate. As @KDawg said, that’s a good thing (hey look, something we both agree on!) Well Moses has been one of Haskins more vocal supporters so there is that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Dwayne Haskins doesn't love football, he loves being a football player. There's a difference. QBs who love football put in the work. Russell Wilson goes crazy with film review after the game, on his off day he studies more and has a report for his WRs on Wednesday's practice. Dwayne will never be like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 44 minutes ago, mistertim said: 1) That's true, but we only have data for last season I think. I couldn't find any for this one. It felt (a completely subjective term) like he was doing much more short stuff than last season. Could be a function of offense and play calling. He's also (again, IMO, eye test...nothing scientific) looked less accurate than he did down the stretch at the end of last season. Again, that could be partially because of having a new system, but it's still an issue. Balls kept sailing on him and that's mostly a function of footwork and mechanics usually. 2) I feel like this is sort of a no-man's-land situation, to be honest. ****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't. If Ron truly believed that Haskins just wasn't good enough (and/or that his attitude / work ethic was bad enough) and he left him in anyway then we might be more likely to get the #1 overall pick, but what message would that send to everyone else on the team? Remember, this is Ron's first year and he wants to establish a culture. As far as the draft compensation, I honestly am not sure we'd ever have been likely to get more than a mid rounder at most, no matter the cirsumstances. Rosen was a bit of a different situation as well, because not only was he generally a more highly rated QB prospect than Haskins, but he was also much more polished and had lots of experience in college as a starter. With Rosen, you know it's a guy you're more likely able to plug and play. With Haskins, he's a guy that you look at and say "Guy has tons of arm talent but he needs a lot of work on fundamentals" and realize he's a project. Most teams aren't going to give up a 1st or 2nd round pick for a project QB. Also, if teams believed the poor attitude/work ethic/maturity stuff (which has been around since before he was drafted...so it's not just us) then that's going to affect their decision making even more. Yeah the leaking is a pain, and yeah it unfortunately didn't go away immediately when Ron came to town, but I also don't think that he likes it or has anything to do with it. And leaks happen with every team. We act like we're the only team where rumors and leaks surround stuff, but we're not. 1) Haskins' average intended air yards had been dropping precipitously since Week 2. It was 8.0 IAY per attempt Week 1, 8.6 IAY Week 2, 6.6 IAY Week 3, and 4.4 IAY Week 4. It seems like the coaches were telling him to stop the deeper passing attempts and focus on completing short passes. For reference, that Week 4 IAY p/a total was still higher than Kyle Allen's in Week 5, which was 3.2. Haskins had a 71% completion rate in Week 4. Allen had a 69% completion rate. My whole point though is that accuracy can definitely improve for a young player if you allow him to develop. There are countless examples of it. 2) Well, Ron needs to decide what's more important: the low percentage chance of winning the division and sneaking into the playoffs this season, or building a long-term powerhouse. You think the Cardinals didn't have an issue with culture when they kept trotting Rosen out there week after week? Of course they did, but they knew what needed to be done in order to have a much better chance of building a long-term success. And by doing so, not only did they get the best QB prospect in next year's draft, but they also got good compensation for Rosen. It's true that Rosen had more experience that Haskins as a starter in college, but I think it's revisionist history to say he was considered a better prospect than Haskins. They were both given a 6.70 grade by Lance Zierlein coming out of college and were both considered 1st round picks by many in the draft community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 11 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said: Nah that’s a more credible statement from a very recent college and now NFL teammate. Moses has a track record of talking crap. That's a valid point about Moses lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Just now, Cooleyfan1993 said: Yeah. Probably just them saying the right thing to the media, instead of saying “he sucks/his career is done/coach has given up on him/ETC”. No good can come from giving their actual thoughts to the media Of course and that's why they do it. Posters supplying the quotes as if they are meaningful in any way are barking up the wrong tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said: Of course and that's why they do it. Posters supplying the quotes as if they are meaningful in any way are barking up the wrong tree. Their quotes mean a ****-ton more than our fan speculation does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 18 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said: You are confusing completion percentage with on target percentage. They're not the same thing. I know that. I'm very familiar with both stats. However, the stats are obviously highly correlated, so I was using that tweet without feeling the need to waste time looking up their individual completion percentages this year. Feel free to do so, however. I can guarantee the completion percentages of the QBs I named are much higher today than they were during their first two years in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 21 minutes ago, KDawg said: These guys speaking up for Haskins is good. It doesn’t mean they think he’s a great option right now, and it doesn’t mean that they don’t think that. It’s just guys coming out and supporting a dude they like. That’s a good thing. Like what else are they supposed to do? Those quotes are what you would say even if you thought Haskins stunk. The fact that no players are leaking/grumbling to the media about DH getting screwed is more telling than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 16 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said: I'm not sure what the player's quotes are being supplied. Players always stick up for their teammates, if you think player quotes actually reflect their real opinion you are sadly mistaken. I mean, just the fact that one of them said “whether it’s here or elsewhere” says a lot if you think about it, there’s obviously a vibe of how this is going in the locker room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Moses' quote about Haskins "having a lot of learning to do" doesn't exactly refute what the coaches have been saying, does it? This whole thing blows and we all know it's going to get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, Hooper said: Like what else are they supposed to do? Those quotes are what you would say even if you thought Haskins stunk. The fact that no players are leaking/grumbling to the media about DH getting screwed is more telling than anything. They weren't leaking/grumbling to the media about their frustrations at Haskins' play, either, which Rivera went on record about. Maybe the players we have now aren't all clones of DJ Swearinger or Desean Jackson for a change. That was part of the culture change Rivera was trying to establish by bringing in the FAs that he brought in. Or--wild thought--maybe guys like Young and Moses really do "have Dwayne's back," think of him as a "little bro" and really do still believe he can still be successful in the NFL and are publicly encouraging him to keep at it. We can't all think it's impossible for anyone, anywhere to have those beliefs, can we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 Snyder Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 11 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: I know that. I'm very familiar with both stats. However, the stats are obviously highly correlated, so I was using that tweet without feeling the need to waste time looking up their individual completion percentages this year. Feel free to do so, however. I can guarantee the completion percentages of the QBs I named are much higher today than they were during their first two years in the league. Just about every QBs % is higher and its as much a function of how much things have changed in the game over a short period of time than anything else. Accuracy can be improved many ways. "Touch" is a different animal though and its what I think most people really mean when they say Haskins lacks accuracy. He could improve his fundamentals and understanding of the playback and route concepts to better his completion %, but learning how to drop a ball down the chimney they way Wilson does is not a learned trait. You either got it or you dont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Califan007 said: They weren't leaking/grumbling to the media about their frustrations at Haskins' play, either, which Rivera went on record about. Maybe the players we have now aren't all clones of DJ Swearinger or Desean Jackson for a change. That was part of the culture change Rivera was trying to establish by bringing in the FAs that he brought in. Or--wild thought--maybe guys like Young and Moses really do "have Dwayne's back," think of him as a "little bro" and really do still believe he can still be successful in the NFL and are publicly encouraging him to keep at it. We can't all think it's impossible for anyone, anywhere to have those beliefs, can we? If you really believe the players' quotes actually reflect their true opinion I have no idea what to say to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Sounds like they have his back while also being frustrated by his lack of his work ethic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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