FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[mojo]

11 hours ago, skinfan2k said:

basically I've been saying all year.  He has 0 touch in a league where pin point placement is required. 

Haskins has that Jason Campbell touch

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Are there other QBs that played tennis at a young age? I can see that being comparable to the value of soccer when younger. Just curious. 

I played tennis growing up.  I gotta say, from a movement perspective, the drills tennis players do would be absolutely fantastic for a QB.  You have to be massively quick on your feet, able to switch directions on a dime, and react quickly to something really unpredictable.

 

The drill that come to mind, which just absolutely sucked to do, was what one of my coaches called the "T" drill.  (it has other names)  You stood at the "T" where service line met the center line, so basically dead center of the court.  From there, the coach would hit balls, and you would have to get to the ball, set up, hit it, and then recover to that spot after every ball.  (If he was mad at you for something, he'd make you sprint up to touch the net, then back-peddle to that spot.) Depending on where the ball was, hit, you'd have to sprint forward, backwards, turn for an overhead, use side-steps or crossover... it was absolutely brutal.  But damn if it didn't get your eyes, feet and brain all working together. And you never knew where the next ball was going.  So you always had to react.  Because not only did you have to get to the ball, part of the drill was setting up to hit it, step through it, and hit it. 

 

God, I remember doing this thing on a 105 deg day on a hard court.  It was freaking brutal.  One girl, who was a fairly high nationally ranked junior, after she was done with round 3 of it, was so pissed she threw her racquet at coach. Hard.  Came close to hitting him.  Called him a sadistic mfing Satan worshipper also.  I was never that creative or bold.  She got away with stuff the rest of us didn't because she was nationally ranked in the top 50 or something.  I remember it like it was yesterday because she was fuming mad, really cute and wearing shorts and a sports bra.    This was before girls actually did that.  But she'd sweat through both of the shirts she brought, and was uncomfortable, so just pulled it off. It wouldn't be a big deal today to see a 16 year old girl working out in a sports bra or whatever those workout tops are called.  In 1988, it was ... let's just say my 12 year old self was absolutely in awe. (Btw, coach didn't like having a racquet thrown at him, so he made her do suicides until her tongue fell out of her mouth.  I can't help but think today he'd be thrown in jail for child abuse or something and parents would be screaming he was being too hard on their precious children. But he was a hell of a coach.)

 

Ahywho...  back to arguing about Haskins.

[RandyHolt]

Just throw early slants to Turbo a few times when they jump the route pump their ball hog safety and go deep to.... Inman.

 

Sigh we need to get Haskins a run game and PAP away, or a lead.  Its not just him, it our OL as he probably has no confidence in them. Talk about learning mechanics feet to the fire.... We cant run and cant pass block. Pretty damn thin at WR RB and TE.

 

RR has to adjust go aggressive early;  quick passing and try to forge a 14-0 lead, and then unleash the hounds.   I want to see some advanced mechanics stats dammit. When do they suck, how much time does he have, whats the score, and what are the results.  I bet his mechanics are much better in a blowout when the D has called off the dogs.

 

Are his mechanics fine when throwing the slant? I haven't watched for it but they are better when he has no fear of a pass rush.

[zCommander]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I dunno. I don't generally buy the nebulous "it" thing if it can't at least be partially defined, and the definition of the "it" factor seems to vary from person to person. How exactly would you define that yourself? 

 

 

They way I think of IT is to have the ability to do something very quick and still be calm and have an extra instinct. 

 

As the saying goes, he is a natural. More fluid than mechanical I guess. Lamar Jackson is another good example. When a play is not there he makes a play without even thinking in tenth of a second. Having the ability to process everything around him in less than a second and execute. Not every QB can do this. That is why some QB's are labelled game managers as they will not bring anything special to the table. Not that is bad. QB's have won SB by being a game manager but they need lots of help around them. You won't expect them to elevate that game. They don't have the IT factor to do that, so to speak. 

 

 

 

 

[GOATFrerotte]

5 hours ago, moondog said:

You guys are blowing my mind with this stuff. When Rivera said they weren't going for any cheap wins he didn't mean they wouldn't coach and play to win every game. His point was that it's not about this year. They're not going to trade for someone like Allen Robinson and throw away future picks simply to be a little better this year and maybe have a chance at stealing the division or a wild card slot only to get rolled in the playoffs. The same goes for Kyle Allen - Ron knows his ceiling. He's got some tools and is a viable backup. But he's never going to be a full time starter in this league. Therefore it would be asinine to try to squeak out a few more wins under  Allen this year, sacrifice draft position next year  and still need a QB because he's not the long term answer. 

 

The absolute number one most important thing for this entire franchise is to know without a shadow of a doubt by year's end if we can build with Haskins or need to start over. We couldn't not take Chase Young but obviously we have put Haskins in an unfavorable position with little offensive help. He and others on the offense need to play better. But Haskins needs to play a full season, if healthy, because that's all that really matters. Anyone worried about eeking out a few more wins this year to feel better about the team is just looking at this all wrong. Ron is looking ahead while trying to figure out who is going to be a part of his foundation going forward. 

 

You had me with not trading for veteran players to try to win this year. That makes sense. Even not playing Alex Smith over Haskins makes sense. I just don't agree with your opinion of Allen. He looked just as capable or more capable than Haskins has in their first 9 games. And I just don't see Rivera as the type that's going to continue playing a guy if they continue being incapable of moving the ball downfield and sustaining any drives. If we were like 20th-26th in the NFL in passing and having some success moving the ball, I can see us sticking with Haskins, but not if we are dead last. No chance Rivera tolerates being the worst if his 24 year old guy he brought over could do better.

 

I see it more as Rivera is going to give Haskins the first chance and he either takes it or it's bench time... not the only chance.  

[XxSpearheadxX]

6 hours ago, wit33 said:

Are there other QBs that played tennis at a young age? I can see that being comparable to the value of soccer when younger. Just curious. 

Drew Brees could have gone pro in tennis but chose football if I remember correctly 

[Panninho]

4 hours ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

You had me with not trading for veteran players to try to win this year. That makes sense. Even not playing Alex Smith over Haskins makes sense. I just don't agree with your opinion of Allen. He looked just as capable or more capable than Haskins has in their first 9 games. And I just don't see Rivera as the type that's going to continue playing a guy if they continue being incapable of moving the ball downfield and sustaining any drives. If we were like 20th-26th in the NFL in passing and having some success moving the ball, I can see us sticking with Haskins, but not if we are dead last. No chance Rivera tolerates being the worst if his 24 year old guy he brought over could do better.

 

I see it more as Rivera is going to give Haskins the first chance and he either takes it or it's bench time... not the only chance.  

Rivera has seen Allen for quite some time already, he knows exactly who Allen is and what he is capable of. All the reports indicated that Haskins won the starting job because he looked like the most promising QB in camp, so it's not like Allen blew everyone away during camp. We didn't have an offseason, everything was done virtual, Haskins had to learn a completely new offense without basically any practice and on top of that has an absolute horrific supporting cast. Many reports indicated that this season is going to be tough for teams led by a new coaching staff because of the circumstances. I just don't get why people want to dismiss all of that after two starts and go with Allen -  a guy who did not win the starting job even though he knew the systen and who the coach already knows and had time to evaluate a full year.

This is the season to find out who is worth going forward with and who isn't. What does it matter if we win 2 games more because we might have less growing pains. If we lose every game left on the schedule we are in prime position to get a new QB if Haskins is not it. If we win a couple of games and Haskins shows good growth it's also a good sign. The worst thing is to win 5-9 games with a guy you know is not the long term answer before you even start him. If Allen was as promising as some here claim he is, he would have won the starting job. Roll the season with Haskins. If he is not it at least we know it by the end of the year and can move on.

[cakmoney61]

On 9/21/2020 at 10:38 AM, Spaceman Spiff said:

In regards to accuracy, IMO that's the only thing that should really matter when looking for a quarterback.  If I'm ever picking a QB, I'm taking the most accurate guy in the draft.  Everything else is secondary.

This is where I'm at as well.  IMO, it starts with accuracy followed by arm strength.  Who cares if you can read and manipulate defenses if you can't hit open receivers consistently.  In fact, I don't know if a QB can manipulate a defense if he can't hit open receivers.🤔 

[Skinsinparadise]

Agree, I've been saying this all week this screams as the breakout game for both Haskins and others on offense.  Will see.  Fingers crossed. 

 

 

 

[LD0506]

I am concerned what might happen if we do see the breakout game so many want, whiplash cases may fell half the Stadium......

[volsmet]

29 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Agree, I've been saying this all week this screams as the breakout game for both Haskins and others on offense.  Will see.  Fingers crossed. 

 

 

 

The browns are the most popular defense in dfs this week, so most are seeing the opposite. 
 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, volsmet said:

The browns are the most popular defense in dfs this week, so most are seeing the opposite. 
 

 

 

Many among the national media (apparently Vegas, too) among others see Haskins as likely a bust or at best a complete wildcard  and the WFT are a really bad team.  So the Haskins busting out narrative is for the selective few.  So most seeing the opposite will be a narrative we likely see every week from the national media, fans, fantasy football types, etc until they see a game that defeats their preconception about Haskins and this team.

 

I am far from a Haskins homer albeit I desperately want him to be the answer.  I think he has some potential bust in him.  But at the same time, I personally see Haskins more of a wild card.  so for me a bust out game from Haskins is possible.  But yeah I am well aware of the national media perception , fans, football geek types of him.  Haskins has some fans in that mix but most are critics.  Daniel Jones actually has more believers among the national media and just general perception than Haskins does. 

47 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

I am concerned what might happen if we do see the breakout game so many want, whiplash cases may fell half the Stadium......

 

LOL, its the nature of the position and hope that the next young QB finally breaks this miserable QB streak this franchise has had.  This thread isn't that different than all the other young Qb threads (with the exception of RG3 2012) but hopefully this one has a better outcome. 

[Riggo#44]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Agree, I've been saying this all week this screams as the breakout game for both Haskins and others on offense.  Will see.  Fingers crossed. 

 

If he doesn't have a good game, it's going to push me heavily towards Lose for Lawrence/**** it All for Fields.

[MisterPinstripe]

3 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

If he doesn't have a good game, it's going to push me heavily towards Lose for Lawrence/**** it All for Fields.

Yeah can't argue with that. I've been pretty up on him and his improvement, and yes this is a new offense with no offseason, but he's gotta start showing something soon. He has been doing a good job protecting the ball at least. 

[Simmsy]

I'm more surprised at the lack of execution with both the QB and the receivers. Haskins missing easy passes, but when he does get the ball to the receivers, they drop it time and time again. I don't know who is to blame, but the offense is clearly not ready for prime time yet.

[wit33]

 

 

11 hours ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

You had me with not trading for veteran players to try to win this year. That makes sense. Even not playing Alex Smith over Haskins makes sense. I just don't agree with your opinion of Allen. He looked just as capable or more capable than Haskins has in their first 9 games. And I just don't see Rivera as the type that's going to continue playing a guy if they continue being incapable of moving the ball downfield and sustaining any drives. If we were like 20th-26th in the NFL in passing and having some success moving the ball, I can see us sticking with Haskins, but not if we are dead last. No chance Rivera tolerates being the worst if his 24 year old guy he brought over could do better.

 

I see it more as Rivera is going to give Haskins the first chance and he either takes it or it's bench time... not the only chance.  
 

 

It’s more about ceiling potential when comparing Allen and Haskins. Theoretically guys with less talent have lower ceilings and are easier to scheme against defensively. Many exceptions to this rule, but still worth mention in this case. 
 

My hypothesis and backed some by what Rivera has said is that Rivera doesn’t just want a “guy” at the position or one that can run a system, he wants a game changer at the QB spot and feels that’s the main ingredient to being championship caliber. Wants to see if Haskins can break through to be a QB that “you can win with and because of“ (I believe that’s pretty close to what he said previously). 
 

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Agree, I've been saying this all week this screams as the breakout game for both Haskins and others on offense.  Will see.  Fingers crossed. 

 

 

 

Attempting to not get to up or down on the statistics, though I’d love a 3td type game for his own self confidence. 
 

Rather, I want to see a return of him manipulating the pocket versus trying to escape the pocket, seeking timely run opportunities (the 2-4sec mark of a play), stretching the defense with consistent aggressive throws down the field, eyes and feet linking up 60-70% of the time, standing strong in the pocket and take a few hits while delivering the football (I don’t mind some back foot throws a result, as this is now pre requisite for the pocket QBs to keep up with these other mobile QBs). 

[GOATFrerotte]

7 hours ago, Panninho said:

Rivera has seen Allen for quite some time already, he knows exactly who Allen is and what he is capable of. All the reports indicated that Haskins won the starting job because he looked like the most promising QB in camp, so it's not like Allen blew everyone away during camp. We didn't have an offseason, everything was done virtual, Haskins had to learn a completely new offense without basically any practice and on top of that has an absolute horrific supporting cast. Many reports indicated that this season is going to be tough for teams led by a new coaching staff because of the circumstances. I just don't get why people want to dismiss all of that after two starts and go with Allen -  a guy who did not win the starting job even though he knew the systen and who the coach already knows and had time to evaluate a full year.

This is the season to find out who is worth going forward with and who isn't. What does it matter if we win 2 games more because we might have less growing pains. If we lose every game left on the schedule we are in prime position to get a new QB if Haskins is not it. If we win a couple of games and Haskins shows good growth it's also a good sign. The worst thing is to win 5-9 games with a guy you know is not the long term answer before you even start him. If Allen was as promising as some here claim he is, he would have won the starting job. Roll the season with Haskins. If he is not it at least we know it by the end of the year and can move on.

 

He might have chosen Haskins to start, but that doesn't mean he thinks like you guys in the fact that Haskins gets the whole year no matter what. If Haskins continues playing like he has where the offense is incapable of moving the ball downfield, of course he'll go with his guy Allen. Like I said before, Haskins is just getting the first chance to show what he can do. Doesn't mean Rivera thinks he's better or worse, just that he's going to give the youngin the first chance. He either runs with it or gets replaced by Allen. It's not a hard decision for me. Being last in something means you're pretty bad and you might need a change. All Haskins has to do against the Browns to earn more starts is to improve from being the worst passing offense in the NFL. It's a really low bar.

[GOATFrerotte]

16 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

 

It’s more about ceiling potential when comparing Allen and Haskins. Theoretically guys with less talent have lower ceilings and are easier to scheme against defensively. Many exceptions to this rule, but still worth mention in this case. 
 

My hypothesis and backed some by what Rivera has said is that Rivera doesn’t just want a “guy” at the position or one that can run a system, he wants a game changer at the QB spot and feels that’s the main ingredient to being championship caliber. Wants to see if Haskins can break through to be a QB that “you can win with and because of“ (I believe that’s pretty close to what he said previously). 

 

To me there's just no logic to bringing Allen over if you didn't think he could play and compete. If Haskins was the guy and Rivera was sold on it, why bring over your previous qb? There are plenty of emergency backup veterans out there that you can bring over that aren't looking over Haskins shoulders. My theory is Rivera is going to give Haskins the first shot to prove himself but by no means does that mean he is sold on him. If he doesn't perform on the field, to me there is no doubt he'll give his boy Allen a shot. No reason to bring the youngin over to be a permanent backup. 

[Riggo#44]

11 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

To me there's just no logic to bringing Allen over if you didn't think he could play and compete.

 

You mean other than he knows the offense and can help Haskins, as well as step in, as a backup, easily? People keep repeating the same reasons to you, which you ignore, and post almost the exact same thing, every time.

[GOATFrerotte]

1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

You mean other than he knows the offense and can help Haskins, as well as step in, as a backup, easily? People keep repeating the same reasons to you, which you ignore, and post almost the exact same thing, every time.

 

Well luckily we'll get to see who's right and who's wrong. I don't think he brought Allen over to be Haskins helper, you guys do. You just happen to take the position that you are right no matter what. We'll see.

[Riggo#44]

 

7 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

We'll see.

We may see Allen at some point, but he is what he is, a back up.

[GOATFrerotte]

That first drive wasn't bad. I'll give you one thing, he has a cannon for an arm and when he's accurate it is a pretty sight to see. Good start. 

[GOATFrerotte]

Made couple bad passes, but has made some really really good passes. All and all I'd say I'm beginning to see what you guys see now that I'm really focused on it. I'm going to give him a chance. Was indifferent since being drafted.

[GOATFrerotte]

Maybe I spoke too soon. Can't be making those passes if you want to stay in the game. Only positive is I'm watching the Giants on the side and Daniel Jones is worse. 

[Commander -JB-]

People still copping pleas for Haskins?  Sheesh.  He’s awful.