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FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


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3 hours ago, KDawg said:

Why do people say mechanics are overblown and then use Mahomes? Mahomes is VERY mechanically sound. He goes unorthodox when his throw is off schedule to make something happen... and when he does it... it works.

 

Haskins just does it because he doesn’t have a base of good mechanics. 
 

They are not... at all... the same.

Glad you said something. 
 

Mahomes is so good that he can try random crazy **** for fun. Same thing with Steph Curry. They are both mechanically sound. 
 

Back to football, being flawed mechanically only isn’t a “big deal” if you can use your legs as a legit weapon like Josh Allen, Lamar, Cam, etc. Otherwise, you’re just Joe Flacco or worse 

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4 hours ago, KDawg said:

Why do people say mechanics are overblown and then use Mahomes? Mahomes is VERY mechanically sound. He goes unorthodox when his throw is off schedule to make something happen... and when he does it... it works.

 

Haskins just does it because he doesn’t have a base of good mechanics. 
 

They are not... at all... the same.


So what you are saying is that although he makes unorthodox throws ( bad mechanical throws), it’s ok because it works? That’s exactly the point. 

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4 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:


So what you are saying is that although he makes unorthodox throws ( bad mechanical throws), it’s ok because it works? That’s exactly the point. 


 

Im saying that Patrick Mahomes has a solid base of mechanics and utilizes the unorthodox throws as a tool, not his base. 

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17 hours ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

I want to see Allen get a shot. There's two Allens we've seen and one version was one that can complete passes down field and complete more than 60% of his passes. My point is, it wouldn't hurt to see what Allen can do. If some how he can sustain drives and move the offense giving us a shot that Haskins doesn't, then awesome. If he continues leading the worst passing offense in the NFL, then we're still the worst passing team in the NFL. I for one just don't like watching what could be the worst offense in the NFL while we have a defense that is going to give us shots to win games. And I honestly believe Rivera is different. He's a winner and if Haskins isn't getting the job done he'll make the switch sooner than later.

 

I am not really rallying for Allen, personally I don't think the QB of the future is on this roster currently. But I do find it ironic that those who criticize Allen's play and claim Dwayne is young and needs a chance to develop fail to recognize that Allen has the same lack of NFL experience.  The truth is in a small sample size Allen has produced better overall than Haskins has, at the very least it's close as Allen has had some really good performances too.  I'm simply not convinced that Haskins' lack of touch and accuracy is correctable, certainly not to the level of improvement that is necessary.  

 

Ron's in a tough spot. He simply has to give Dwayne every opportunity. But at the same time he claimed every spot had competition and it's going to be increasingly difficult to explain to the other starters that they are playing because they won the job and watch their efforts go for nothing because the QB is not performing. 

Edited by Darrell Green Fan
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15 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I am not really rallying for Allen, personally I don't think the QB of the future is on this roster currently. But I do find it ironic that those who criticize Allen's play and claim Dwayne is young and needs a chance to develop fail to recognize that Allen has the same lack of NFL experience.  The truth is in a small sample size Allen has produced better overall than Haskins has, at the very least it's close as Allen has had some really good performances too.  I'm simply not convinced that Haskins' lack of touch and accuracy is correctable, certainly not to the level of improvement that is necessary.  

 

Well said. I've seen comments that act like it's absolutely nuts for us to bench Haskins for Allen. Allen is 24 yrs old, and has the same level of experience. If Haskins has another dud against Cleveland, that seat should be white hot. 

 

Besides, this defense DESERVES an offense that can be at least mediocre.  The division this year could be potentially won with only 6 more wins this year. Let that sink in for a second - I'd love to see Allen get a shot if Haskins has another rough outing. 

 

Just my $. 02.

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11 hours ago, lovemaskins said:

Haskins reminds me of Baker Mayfield when he throws, everything’s a laser beam. He needs to take something off it. A little touch and anticipation goes a long way to giving a receiver a catchable ball.
 

It’s almost like he’s rushing which may be him learning a new offense and not being comfortable. 

basically I've been saying all year.  He has 0 touch in a league where pin point placement is required. 

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8 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:


There’s no denying that better form would serve him well. I’m just of the opinion that vision, ball placement, IQ, and drive are far more important. 


Those things come with a good base of mechanics.

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After Re-watching the game, I feel a little better because he was actually stepping into throws and transferring his weight properly in the 2nd half. I’m not sure what the difference was but he looked a pro QB that entire half. Good news. Maybe he was nervous.
 

It’s still really weird watching him throw the first 6 quarters of the year. His feet are just horrendous. I mean anyone that’s thrown any type of ball in any setting can see it. And he did the same thing last year. I’m genuinely curious how any football people are signing off on investing high draft picks on these big arm QBs with bad feet. It’s not just Dwayne. There are a lot of Dwaynes that have been drafted in similar spots the last 10 or so years 

Edited by BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93
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Looking at all of Haskins' throws, I notice that there were a few times where the receivers just fall down.  Probably not used to the field in Arizona? 

Also, a lot of inaccurate throws were missing by a few inches.  Receivers could have grabbed some.  

Edited by redskins59
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With all their injury issues--this is a great matchup. Give Haskins some confidence. However, if he sputters against this team--it'll be like RGIII completely ****ting the bed against a terrible Buccaneers pass defense in 2014. It'll shake my confidence in him greatly.

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14 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:


So what you are saying is that although he makes unorthodox throws ( bad mechanical throws), it’s ok because it works? That’s exactly the point. 

 

“Master your instrument, master the music, and then forget all that **** and just play.”   - jazz legend Charlie Parker

 

Same thing here. Master the theory, the fundamentals, and then once you do that it allows you the freedom to improvise and "just play" because you have a super solid foundation and you don't need to even think about the fundamentals anymore; it's all just there.

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7 hours ago, LetThePointsSoar said:

 

Well said. I've seen comments that act like it's absolutely nuts for us to bench Haskins for Allen. Allen is 24 yrs old, and has the same level of experience. If Haskins has another dud against Cleveland, that seat should be white hot. 

 

Besides, this defense DESERVES an offense that can be at least mediocre.  The division this year could be potentially won with only 6 more wins this year. Let that sink in for a second - I'd love to see Allen get a shot if Haskins has another rough outing. 

 

Just my $. 02.

 

I see things the exact same way including the possibility of winning the division. If Rivera and his new regime had drafted Haskins, then I would be all in on Haskins getting all the reps, but since this is a brand new start and a Rivera brought in another young qb, I don't think Rivera owes anybody any playing time and could and should switch things up if the passing game continues to perform like it is. 

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24 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

I see things the exact same way including the possibility of winning the division. If Rivera and his new regime had drafted Haskins, then I would be all in on Haskins getting all the reps, but since this is a brand new start and a Rivera brought in another young qb, I don't think Rivera owes anybody any playing time and could and should switch things up if the passing game continues to perform like it is. 

So why do you think Rivera is doing what he’s doing? Maybe, with his intimate involvement, he knows way more about their relative abilities than anyone else?

 

Either that, or he’s a gutless Snyder pawn..  

 

I’d bet my house on the latter!!!

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You guys are blowing my mind with this stuff. When Rivera said they weren't going for any cheap wins he didn't mean they wouldn't coach and play to win every game. His point was that it's not about this year. They're not going to trade for someone like Allen Robinson and throw away future picks simply to be a little better this year and maybe have a chance at stealing the division or a wild card slot only to get rolled in the playoffs. The same goes for Kyle Allen - Ron knows his ceiling. He's got some tools and is a viable backup. But he's never going to be a full time starter in this league. Therefore it would be asinine to try to squeak out a few more wins under  Allen this year, sacrifice draft position next year  and still need a QB because he's not the long term answer. 

 

The absolute number one most important thing for this entire franchise is to know without a shadow of a doubt by year's end if we can build with Haskins or need to start over. We couldn't not take Chase Young but obviously we have put Haskins in an unfavorable position with little offensive help. He and others on the offense need to play better. But Haskins needs to play a full season, if healthy, because that's all that really matters. Anyone worried about eeking out a few more wins this year to feel better about the team is just looking at this all wrong. Ron is looking ahead while trying to figure out who is going to be a part of his foundation going forward. 

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There's poor mechanics and there's awkward mechanics.  Poor mechanics is like Shaq shooting free throws.  He could make them, but it was kinda random because he could not reliably repeat the same motion and get the same results.  Awkward mechanics can be made to work if they are repeatable.  The key to making awkward-but-repeatable mechanics work is reading defenses, seeing the field, decision making, and knowing your limitations.

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1 hour ago, mistertim said:

Master the theory, the fundamentals, and then once you do that it allows you the freedom to improvise and "just play" because you have a super solid foundation and you don't need to even think about the fundamentals anymore; it's all just there.

 

Some would even say Mahomes has the "IT" factor. I concur. 

 

Haskins I don't see having this factor. I think either you have it or you don't. 

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17 hours ago, wit33 said:

Josh Rosen is super mechanically sound. 
 

Waaay more than Haskins and Mahomes.

 

Golden arm with great tennis player feet.  Smart young guy too.  He's got some issues as a player, but he's a textbook example of how bad organizations ruin good prospects.  Rosen never got to be a part of a good team, going back to 2015.

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13 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Golden arm with great tennis player feet.  Smart young guy too.  He's got some issues as a player, but he's a textbook example of how bad organizations ruin good prospects.  Rosen never got to be a part of a good team, going back to 2015.


Are there other QBs that played tennis at a young age? I can see that being comparable to the value of soccer when younger. Just curious. 

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44 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Are there other QBs that played tennis at a young age? I can see that being comparable to the value of soccer when younger. Just curious. 

 

Good question, but I don't know the answer to it.  I can't remember hearing about a bunch of guys playing tennis though, which is why it stood out in my memory that Rosen did.  TBH it seems a little boujee for most football players, and that many, many more of them run track or play soccer or baseball in the spring I think.  I agree with you that it would be great training for hand-eye-foot coordination and drilling in the discipline and work habits of setting up your feet for every rep.  At least if you get good and play the sport at a high level of competition anyway.  It's the hardest physical aspect of the sport to me.

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8 hours ago, redskins59 said:

Looking at all of Haskins' throws, I notice that there were a few times where the receivers just fall down.  Probably not used to the field in Arizona? 

Also, a lot of inaccurate throws were missing by a few inches.  Receivers could have grabbed some.  

 

yeah, lots of our players fell at times during this game

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PFF talking up 2019 rookie players who think they have taken it up a notch this year and those who have taken a step back.  It's a bit premature, I think on their end.  though they do have some of my guys from the draft thread, I took Diontae Johnson in the board's mock draft and loved Marquise.  I didn't care for Daniel Jones though, he's on that list. 🙄  but 2 games in?  You figure they'd wait to 4 games at least.  Haskins is on the step back list -- way premature IMO. 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/second-year-breakout-watch-5-players-who-look-set-for-a-breakout-year-5-players-who-have-taken-a-step-back

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2 hours ago, zskins said:

 

Some would even say Mahomes has the "IT" factor. I concur. 

 

Haskins I don't see having this factor. I think either you have it or you don't. 

 

I dunno. I don't generally buy the nebulous "it" thing if it can't at least be partially defined, and the definition of the "it" factor seems to vary from person to person. How exactly would you define that yourself? 

 

I think there are certainly some personality type things that people generally tend to have or not in most cases...like the ability to operate calmly under intense pressure, whether it's physical or mental (or both, in the case of an NFL QB).

 

The ability to process information quickly and pattern-match might be another, but that can be learned too, especially when it comes to application specific arenas...for example you don't have to have an IQ of 160 to become a chess grandmaster.

 

Being a compulsively hard worker and super competitive person is probably another thing that most people tend to have or not have...and it's definitely something that seems to be almost a prerequisite for an NFL QB to be great. 

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