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FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


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2 hours ago, Burgold said:

I think of MartinC as Hephaestus, blacksmith to the Gods. He may not be the guy you think of going into battle, but he's got all the pointy stabby things and knows how they work. :silly:


I’ve been called worse 🙂

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17 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

Right. I think we are looking at games in empty stadiums to start.

 

I can only imagine Haskins backed over your dog or something. 

Seattle is going to get off to a rough start then, same with any team that relies on their home field advantage. The Redskins will be totally use to it 😄

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23 hours ago, KDawg said:

How do they record “should have been intercepted” statistics? 
 

Should haves and almosts are great in horse shoes and hand grenades but not a whole lot else.

 

If it’s passes that we’re literally in a defenders hands and they dropped them it’s one thing. 
 

Im always curious how these across the board advanced analytics work. I use them for the teams I coach, but it’s based on film and our system, not a generic stat pack. 
 

But I really can’t judge those numbers because I really have no idea what they consider a “pass that should have been intercepted”.

And how bout "should've been a completions and should have been TD passes"? 

Not hearing about those....Last season, the absolute best pass I saw DH complete was about 55 yards downfield to Terry Mac, thrown across his body while scrambling. It was total arm strength....called back by a holding call. After I saw that throw I could tell he has some real skills. 

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19 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

And how bout "should've been a completions and should have been TD passes"? 

Not hearing about those....Last season, the absolute best pass I saw DH complete was about 55 yards downfield to Terry Mac, thrown across his body while scrambling. It was total arm strength....called back by a holding call. After I saw that throw I could tell he has some real skills. 


Because this convo was in context of interceptions. 
 

That should also be in consideration. And these contextual items are reasons I don’t trust PFF’s grades like many do. They lay an okay baseline but fail to deliver on context. And to be honest, that’s not their fault. I have no idea how you deliver on context unless you watch the stuff.

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3 hours ago, MartinC said:


I’ve been called worse 🙂

Actually, I have always considered one of the good guys on ES. That hasn't changed with your mod-ship. The Hephaestus thing just popped in my mind and I thought it was funny.

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On 4/7/2020 at 10:52 AM, KDawg said:


So it also doesn’t account for off target throws that a receiver tipped and went to a defender?

 

Because then you’re debating what an off target throw is.

 

My assumption is that all of these terms are strictly defined before any analysis and grading is done. That way you get as close to a consistent analysis by dozens of different analysts as possible. So the questions you're asking they also asked themselves and each other before the first Interceptible Pass stat was recorded, and then kept asking questions to better refine their results. So that off-target throw that gets tipped by the WR and ends up intercepted might be judged by whether or not the INT could have happened without the ball first being tipped. In terms of INTs, whether or not the ball was off-target wouldn't play a role in anything in that scenario.

 

It's hardly flawless but I gotta assume that PFF didn't just tell their analysts "Go figure out how many passes each QB threw that coulda been intercepted".

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1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

 

My assumption is that all of these terms are strictly defined before any analysis and grading is done. That way you get as close to a consistent analysis by dozens of different analysts as possible. So the questions you're asking they also asked themselves and each other before the first Interceptible Pass stat was recorded, and then kept asking questions to better refine their results. So that off-target throw that gets tipped by the WR and ends up intercepted might be judged by whether or not the INT could have happened without the ball first being tipped. In terms of INTs, whether or not the ball was off-target wouldn't play a role in anything in that scenario.

 

It's hardly flawless but I gotta assume that PFF didn't just tell their analysts "Go figure out how many passes each QB threw that coulda been intercepted".


Which is what anyone would think but do they document that anywhere?

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2 minutes ago, KDawg said:


Which is what anyone would think but do they document that anywhere?

 

I keep thinking they do--for a short while years ago I had a paid membership to the site, and during my mucking around I keep thinking they went into some detail about how they do everything there, including definitions of different stats or how they determined if a play qualified or not. Then again, it was a while ago and I could be way off lol...

 

 

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Im surprised so many on here think negatively of Haskins.  I watched all his games again over the weekend, or at least all his throws/plays(im sure there are a few that weren't included), but I saw such incredible improvement.  I went into this season with no bias.  I am a Notre Dame fan, and I didn't watch Haskins at all in college.  I can tell you he impressed the hell out of me from the first couple games to the last couple.  From being sacked a ton to not at all shows such a crazy improvement on adapting to the game.  More importantly, his turnovers were basically gone and he started to clean up his touch passes.  If he works hard, I really think this kid will be the answer for years to come.  But, hows his work ethic? Ive heard reports both positively and negatively on it, so who knows whats true?

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6 hours ago, KDawg said:


Because this convo was in context of interceptions. 
 

That should also be in consideration. And these contextual items are reasons I don’t trust PFF’s grades like many do. They lay an okay baseline but fail to deliver on context. And to be honest, that’s not their fault. I have no idea how you deliver on context unless you watch the stuff.

 

PFF grades are based on watching. You can argue about the competence of the people who do the watching but they absolutely try to grade with context.

 

 https://www.pff.com/pff-player-grades

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This game is essentially elite level 7 v 7, you see the raw talent Haskins possesses, and you see him complete passes with absurdly awkward mechanics - mechanics that are likely to produce a far wider array of possible outcomes than you’d anticipate if he was able to collect himself & sync himself up for a more fluid delivery. This doesn’t mean he can’t replicate these positive results on his awkward passes as often as Mahomes/Rodgers, it’s just far more foreign to most evaluators because these deliveries don’t simulate a motion made in any other sport. 
 

 

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I don't know what kind of offensive system we will be installing, but it would be nice to see us take advantage of haskins arm strength on throws like 1:09. 

 

Stretch the field horizontally and allow for haskins to drop back then fire. Make the safeties have to pick a side to shade or have to be able to cover a lot of ground. Have guys that excel on beating 1 on 1 match up's on the edges (e.g. mclaurin).

 

It will really open up a lot for our offense and most NFL safeties will not be able to cover all the space required from a qb with a strong arm and quick release gunning it to the edges. 

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1 hour ago, sportjunkie07 said:

I don't know what kind of offensive system we will be installing, but it would be nice to see us take advantage of haskins arm strength on throws like 1:09. 

 

Stretch the field horizontally and allow for haskins to drop back then fire. Make the safeties have to pick a side to shade or have to be able to cover a lot of ground. Have guys that excel on beating 1 on 1 match up's on the edges (e.g. mclaurin).

 

It will really open up a lot for our offense and most NFL safeties will not be able to cover all the space required from a qb with a strong arm and quick release gunning it to the edges. 


The easiest way to open the middle of the field is to create fear on the outside of it — DH & Harmon, in particular, offer that to our OC. 

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It's been gossipy for weeks - is every year leading up to the draft. Which is by design - just talking about football drives better ratings than watching most other sports! Now there is no others sports even happening it will be even more manic.

 

As per the Redskins there will be continued speculation right up to the point we draft Chase Young. Which we almost certainly will.

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2 hours ago, volsmet said:


The easiest way to open the middle of the field is to create fear on the outside of it — DH & Harmon, in particular, offer that to our OC. 

I didn't watch last seasons film enough to know if harmon is the kind of guy that can routinely beat man coverage on the outside. 

 

I did like him when we drafted him as he seemed to use body control and power to create separation even though he lacked top end speed. 

 

Last year was a mess and difficult to evaluate but I did like what i saw from harmon. I honestly don't think McLaurin can be single covered right now. 

 

Doing all this should benefit our run game and especially our screen game if we can get creative in that regard. Part of the reason I think our rb signings are underrated. 

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1 hour ago, Number 44 said:

 

I would say that falls under the classification of bovine scatology.

 

 

You say this based on?

 

There's really no denying that Tua has been injury prone throughout his college career. 4 injury related surgeries in 3 seasons is nothing to sneeze at. I loved watching Tua play, but if I were an NFL GM I'd be hesitant on pulling the trigger for him with a top 5 pick due to his injury history, let alone trading up for him. 

 

With teams not being able to have him come and do workouts and physicals for them I would be a little surprised, but not shocked, if he fell way further than anyone thinks. 

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Rivera seems to be focused on a quick rebuild, but a rebuild none the less. Free agency has shown that Rivera is not chasing an extra win or two by signing multiple mid-tier free agents. This to me points to Haskins being the starter unless he is injured or fails miserably in training camp. If all Rivera cares about is getting to 7 to 8 wins then he would anoint Allen as the starter but that is not the case. Haskins has the gifts and the talent to win the starting job, and long term, giving him first string reps in training camp is the right thing to do for a rebuild.

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4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

You say this based on?

 

There's really no denying that Tua has been injury prone throughout his college career. 4 injury related surgeries in 3 seasons is nothing to sneeze at. I loved watching Tua play, but if I were an NFL GM I'd be hesitant on pulling the trigger for him with a top 5 pick due to his injury history, let alone trading up for him. 

 

With teams not being able to have him come and do workouts and physicals for them I would be a little surprised, but not shocked, if he fell way further than anyone thinks. 

 

This is the point.  The claim was he failed two physicals.  Clearly false.

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24 minutes ago, Number 44 said:

 

This is the point.  The claim was he failed two physicals.  Clearly false.

Are you saying the medical data teams received from the evaluation on 4/2 wasn't enough for an NFL team to pass or fail him?

 

 

Tua Tagovailoa had follow-up medical exam today 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/02/tua-tagovailoa-had-follow-up-medical-exam-today/

 

"Alabama quarterback Tua Tagovailoa can’t visit NFL teams because of social distancing procedures, but he did have a physical exam today that NFL teams will be able to scrutinize."

 

"According to NFL Media, Tagovailoa had a medical re-check similar to what players usually get if there are any questions remaining after their physical at the NFL Scouting Combine."

 

"The doctor who conducted the physical was selected by NFL team physicians, according to the report."

 

 

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