FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Califan007 The Constipated]

11 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Thats funny but real talk here. As much as i hate the Giants they have 3 Super Bowl wins since 91 including 2 in the past 2 decades , we have 1 including 0 , Yes ZERO in the past 20+ years. We can all laugh at the Giants pick at QB but they consistently build winners ie playoff teams while we consistently build losers. Funny how i was calling you a negative nelly in another thread and here i am playing Mr doom & gloom. But the truth is the truth and I simply call em like i see em. If i was a gambling man and you asked me to wager on which front office & or owner would build a better team for the next decade I'd pick the Giants. Pains me to say it, but yeah. I'm a not a huge Daniel Jones fan but the Giants see something and they have proven of the years to be right, we have not.

 

They don't have the GM who lead them to 2 SBs anymore, though lol...

[mistertim]

Just something interesting I noticed in Jay's presser. When he was asked about the mobility issues with Haskins and how he would fit into Jay's scheme, Jay's hand went immediately to his face and then massaged the front of his neck for literally 10 seconds while he was answering. That's an almost universal human body language signal for being acutely uncomfortable, worried, unsure, or even that they're not telling the truth. Yes, I'm sure people are going to say that's overthinking it but that isn't some off the wall psychological theory...it's pretty well grounded in research. 

[bakedtater1]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Just something interesting I noticed in Jay's presser. When he was asked about the mobility issues with Haskins and how he would fit into Jay's scheme, Jay's hand went immediately to his face and then massaged the front of his neck for literally 10 seconds while he was answering. That's an almost universal human body language signal for being acutely uncomfortable, worried, unsure, or even that they're not telling the truth. Yes, I'm sure people are going to say that's overthinking it but that isn't some off the wall psychological theory...it's pretty well grounded in research. 

Excellent point...very true stuff...makes one wonder that's for sure

[RVAskins]

17 hours ago, kwitt said:

Byron Leftwich 2.0

 Or Dan Marino 2.0. We don't really know yet, do we.

[Destino]

41 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Just something interesting I noticed in Jay's presser. When he was asked about the mobility issues with Haskins and how he would fit into Jay's scheme, Jay's hand went immediately to his face and then massaged the front of his neck for literally 10 seconds while he was answering. That's an almost universal human body language signal for being acutely uncomfortable, worried, unsure, or even that they're not telling the truth. Yes, I'm sure people are going to say that's overthinking it but that isn't some off the wall psychological theory...it's pretty well grounded in research. 

 

It could also mean he wanted to start waving his arms around while screaming at the mere thought of having to answer this questions like this between now and the start of the season.  What you saw were the physical signs of his mental efforts to get the inner savage back into it's cage while answering the question. 

[Berggy9598]

3 hours ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

What the comparison to other teams tells you is that 2019 was a very weak at QB; only 2 drafted in the first round.  The smart move is to wait for 2020.  Next year the competition would have been whittled down to the Bengals and Dolphins.  Could have got Tua or Fromm.  Both SEC QB's who have a much better upside.  And better mobility. 

You have absolutely no earthly clue what will be 365 days from now. Single dumbest reasoning fans have ever came up with, and the well other teams passed on him so he might now be that good isn’t too far behind. 

15 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Just something interesting I noticed in Jay's presser. When he was asked about the mobility issues with Haskins and how he would fit into Jay's scheme, Jay's hand went immediately to his face and then massaged the front of his neck for literally 10 seconds while he was answering. That's an almost universal human body language signal for being acutely uncomfortable, worried, unsure, or even that they're not telling the truth. Yes, I'm sure people are going to say that's overthinking it but that isn't some off the wall psychological theory...it's pretty well grounded in research. 

Or maybe he’s tired of taking questions from clueless people. It’s complete nonsense that he lacks mobility, unless you believe running 40 yards in a straight line = mobility, in which case you’re grossly mistaken. 

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said:

You have absolutely no earthly clue what will be 365 days from now. Single dumbest reasoning fans have ever came up with, and the well other teams passed on him so he might now be that good isn’t too far behind. 

Or maybe he’s tired of taking questions from clueless people. It’s complete nonsense that he lacks mobility, unless you believe running 40 yards in a straight line = mobility, in which case you’re grossly mistaken. 

 

Perhaps. But that was literally the only time he did that or showed any other signs of acute stress or discomfort throughout the entire presser. He looked rather tired but that's about it. That answer to that question really stood out with his physical reaction.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

28 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Just something interesting I noticed in Jay's presser. When he was asked about the mobility issues with Haskins and how he would fit into Jay's scheme, Jay's hand went immediately to his face and then massaged the front of his neck for literally 10 seconds while he was answering. That's an almost universal human body language signal for being acutely uncomfortable, worried, unsure, or even that they're not telling the truth. Yes, I'm sure people are going to say that's overthinking it but that isn't some off the wall psychological theory...it's pretty well grounded in research. 

 

 

Is this what you're talking about? (it should start at the point)

 

 

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

 

 

Is this what you're talking about? (it should start at the point)

 

 

Yup.

[Destino]

26 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said:

You have absolutely no earthly clue what will be 365 days from now. Single dumbest reasoning fans have ever came up with, and the well other teams passed on him so he might now be that good isn’t too far behind. 

I don't get the "other teams passed on him" thing.  He was picked 15th... consider the superbowl winning QBs over the last, lets say, 20 years and where they were drafted:

 

1999  Kurt Warner, undrafted.

2000 Trent Dilfer, 6th pick

2001 Tom Brady 199th

2002 Brad Johnson 227th

2003 Tom Brady 199th

2004 Tom Brady 199th

2005 Ben Roethlisberger 11th

2006 Peyton Manning 1st

2007 Eli Manning 1st

2008 Ben Roethlisberger 11th

2009 Drew Brees 32nd

2010 Aaron Rodgers 24th

2011 Eli Manning 1st

2012 Joe Flacco 18th

2013 Russell Wilson 75th

2014 Tom Brady 199th

2015 Peyton Manning 1st

2016 Tom Brady 199th

2017 Nick Foles 88th

2018 Tom Brady 199th

 

Other than the Mannings and Trent Dilfer (ha!) there isn't a name on that list drafted before the 10th pick in the draft.  Meaning the worst teams passed on them. 

 

Also, **** Tom Brady.

[UKskins]

I used to hate Odell Beckham. Now he hates the vaGiants more than I do I think. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

 

"Show em why".

 

https://247sports.com/nfl/washington-redskins/Article/Odell-Beckham-Jr-texted-Dwayne-Haskins-after-Giants-passed-on-him-131557619/

 

Also looking at this story, it kinda seems that the reason Haskins was pissed last night was because of the slot he went. He expected the Redskins to trade up for him and seems to have felt slighted that we didn't. That's a knee-jerk reaction, he'll come round from that and realise it's better that the team didn't waste picks to get him. If that is why he was pissed though, it'd sure be nice to put one of his team-mates next to him to make him feel more comfortable immediately.

[CTskin]

If I were to choose one aspect that I weigh the least in a QB, it's mobility. As long as they have pocket awareness, I'm content. Peyton, Brady, Marino, literally the greatest QBs had similar mobility to Haskins. Give me the arm + football IQ please.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

 

[Larry]

55 minutes ago, Destino said:

 

It could also mean he wanted to start waving his arms around while screaming at the mere thought of having to answer this questions like this between now and the start of the season.  What you saw were the physical signs of his mental efforts to get the inner savage back into it's cage while answering the question. 

 

Oh, like those questions are going to stop at the start of the season.  

[ThomasRoane]

4 hours ago, Llevron said:

 

We can tell. Its good that you admit it though. (And it understandable. The only thing that worries me about is is exactly what worries you) 

 

 

You made this up lol

 

 

So, having watched Jay's offense, you really think he prefers an immobile QB?  He has said multiple times that he wants to run the ball and then hit on big plays with play action.  I don't see Haskins doing a great job under center running bootlegs.  Unless he drops about 20 lbs (and he really should) he ain't gonna make it outside the pocket without getting chased down. 

 

I don't have to make anything up.  I study the game.  I've coached for over 35 years so I know how important it is for a coach to find a QB that fits his scheme.

[Art]

17 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

So, having watched Jay's offense, you really think he prefers an immobile QB?  He has said multiple times that he wants to run the ball and then hit on big plays with play action.  I don't see Haskins doing a great job under center running bootlegs.  Unless he drops about 20 lbs (and he really should) he ain't gonna make it outside the pocket without getting chased down. 

 

I don't have to make anything up.  I study the game.  I've coached for over 35 years so I know how important it is for a coach to find a QB that fits his scheme.

 

Name the QB Jay's ever had that fits the criteria you seem to think he prefers.   We know not Brad Johnson.   We know not Andy Dalton.   We know not Kirk Cousins.   RGIII was that, but he got rid of him for not being the QB he wanted.   And all the QBs he's had, including Colt, are pretty much what Haskins is.   So, again, show ONE hint of data supporting your thought Jay wants anything OTHER than what Haskins is.   Just one would be great.   Do you really think Haskins can't hand the ball off and do play action?   Is that really a thing with you?   You know OSU ran the RPO a lot right?   The R in RPO means "run".   Do you think Haskins couldn't get outside?   I swear, some people do not value the benefit of silence and how it can assist the way others view them.

[Mr. Sinister]

"We're going to do it right this time"

 

Gee, I sure hope so. I've  had my fill of false hope.

[ThomasRoane]

4 hours ago, Art said:

Maybe you've never seen him play, or, maybe you're right.   Guess where I'm thinking?

 

One season is not a good sample size to make a good evaluation; I wouldn't have touched Kyler Murray either. I'm still smarting over the last guy we drafted in the first who had only one good year.  I'd like to see a body of work where a QB has to deal with the adjustments that defensive coordinators make in the off season.  Not to mention losing big time contributors and still being productive.  I think Tua and Fromm both did a good job of adjusting.

 

4 hours ago, Art said:

Look, the man is flawed, or that arm and accuracy would make him generational.   NO ONE is saying he's perfect.

 

Every QB has weaknesses so I don't expect him to be perfect.  But I'd like to have seen that he was weak in an area and corrected it before the next season.  That would give me more comfort and I'd say that about any QB. 

 

4 hours ago, Art said:

 

But you are stone nuts if you think there isn't a reason to add THAT guy to THIS team.   And, note, my posts are filled with data, not simple rambling.   Your reply will have the same, or, a quiet departure to a safe space is acceptable.

 

Stats for a one year player?  He blew it up.  I would have been more impressed if he had done that in the SEC or even the ACC.  Not impressed with the big 10.  Not even Michigan's defense. (Would they have been such a great defense in either the ACC or SEC? I doubt that very seriously)

 

If they had picked Haskins (or really any of the QB's in this draft) in the 2nd I'd be fine with that?  Knowing that he is already Snyder's guy and is a first rounder means that if he is a bust it could set the franchise back 3 years.  If you're honest you'll admit that you've seen that scenario play out in Washington before under this owner.  If Haskins is just not ready and Jay thinks that Colt or Case gives the team a better chance to win is it going to require another 5 hour meeting?  I hope not!  I would just love for my five kids (oldest is 30 and youngest is 19) to be proud of the team I cursed them with.  Also, I'm not even sure how much time I have left (mantel cell lymphoma sucks) and I want to see the Redskins play in a Super Bowl first. 

 

Hope you don't take any of this personal.  I don't and I appreciate the thoughtful replies. 

[Mr. Sinister]

1 minute ago, Art said:

 

Name the QB Jay's ever had that fits the criteria you seem to think he prefers.   We know not Brad Johnson.   We know not Andy Dalton.   We know not Kirk Cousins.   RGIII was that, but he got rid of him for not being the QB he wanted.   And all the QBs he's had, including Colt, are pretty much what Haskins is.   So, again, show ONE hint of data supporting your thought Jay wants anything OTHER than what Haskins is.   Just one would be great.   Do you really think Haskins can't hand the ball off and do play action?   Is that really a thing with you?   You know OSU ran the RPO a lot right?   The R in RPO means "run".   Do you think Haskins couldn't get outside?   I swear, some people do not value the benefit of silence and how it can assist the way others view them.

 

People keep talking about his 40 time. Like... I never knew that 40 time was the deciding factor in ones ability to move around in the pocket and extend plays from it.

[Art]

1 minute ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

People keep talking about his 40 time. Like... I never knew that 40 time was the deciding factor in ones ability to move around in the pocket and extend plays from it.

 

Hey, his 40 time is ****ty.   I agree.  I suspect he's probably a couple tenths faster but simply had a bad day and some cramps.   In any case, those on the negative side seem to think his 40 time essentially means he's an oak tree.   He is not going to win games with his feet.   But he is big enough and mobile enough to get around enough.    Tom Brady, the Mannings, Brees, etc are in the 4.8 to 5.2 range.   QBs don't have to run a 4.4 to be ok.   I promise.   The difference between Haskins in the 40 and Russell Wilson in the 40 is roughly 4 yards.   Really, it's ok.    

[kfrankie]

I generally like the pick.  The guy is a winner, he has plenty of arm strength, and appears to be able to read a defense. As far as pocket mobility, I'm not familiar with his film.  Was he sacked a bunch of times or something?  If not, its hard to say he lacks pocket mobility.  i'd rather have a guy that knows he's going to be sitting in the pocket throwing the football.

[ThomasRoane]

4 hours ago, Art said:

Hush.   You clearly don't know much.   Jay doesn't like guys that can move.   He dumped RGIII for Cousins because he likes guys, LIKE DALTON, who stand in the pocket and pass.   Idiots keep saying Jay likes a QB he's NEVER HAD.    Jay LOVES Colt McCoy.   He's not looking for a mover.   He's looking for a guy who can sling it and move ENOUGH.   How can you NOT know this by now.

 

Haven't you witnessed the transition in the past couple of years?  Jay has been adamant (hard-headed even) about establishing the run and going with play action.  Coaches evolve and change.  Personally, I think he saw the light when McVay was his OC and he realized how to establish the Shanahan IZ and OZ and then run play action off that.  Good coaches change with the league.  (Won't say that Jay is good or not because you are what your record says but he's not Jim Zorn dumb either)  Still, Jay learned from all the big stat games that his offense put up which didn't often lead to wins. 

 

The NFL is becoming more of a league where the defense leads (Patriots being the outlier but they have Belichick and the GOAT at QB).  Even so, last year's SB was a very defensive battle and until Belichick/McDaniels flipped a play and hit on the big seam route to Gronk the game could have went either way.  Jay is trying to build a team with a very good defense and a complimentary, ball control/play action offense.  He said as much years ago.  That he wanted big guys up front. 

 

See? I have been paying attention 😀

[Destino]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

"We're going to do it right this time"

 

Gee, I sure hope so. I've  had my fill of false hope.

With QBs the only attitude to take is wait and see.  Until they prove they have the mental quickness and the reaction time on an NFL field, they're all more likely to be mediocre or bad than they are to be franchise players.  Now that I think about it, if you wind up with a mediocre starting caliber QB I think you count that as a success.

[mistertim]

I don't really care that much about his 40 time (but seriously, even Peyton Manning was quite a bit faster than him). When I say he's slow I don't mean his straight line speed, I'm talking about his feet. I've watched all of his available cutups multiple times and while he definitely has some very good traits, his feet aren't one of them. He looks flat/heavy footed, not nimble at all moving laterally, and his feet are often not in sync with the mechanics of his upper body. He's been able to mask it somewhat due to being behind a stellar OL, having the arm strength to force it even when his footwork is bad, and having guys who are getting very open. But IMO at this level that's going to become a serious problem very quickly. That's one of the reasons I'd prefer he sit for a year so he can do plenty of work on his feet and mechanics as well as get used to the speed of the pro game after having such limited experience playing in college.

[Morrison J]

12 minutes ago, kfrankie said:

I generally like the pick.  The guy is a winner, he has plenty of arm strength, and appears to be able to read a defense. As far as pocket mobility, I'm not familiar with his film.  Was he sacked a bunch of times or something?  If not, its hard to say he lacks pocket mobility.  i'd rather have a guy that knows he's going to be sitting in the pocket throwing the football.

Taking sacks isn't really the problem it's getting pressured to the point his mechanics go out the window and his throws miss their targets.