Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 14 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: None of which were head coaches. "everyone who walks in the doors"...not "every head coach". Also, see above lol... Quote But as a whole, the Skins at least attempt to fuel the narrative on the departed in negative fashion. I no longer think performing average to mediocre here is seen as a career crusher. Lasting 5 years and being near .500 here makes Jay appear an accomplished survivor. I was actually gonna say something similar but decided, eh, skip it lol...before Alex Smith's broken leg, Gruden may have been the most successful head coach under Snyder, at least in terms of winning percentage (I don't know what his winning percentage is compared to Gibbs. Gibbs was the most successful in terms of getting to the playoffs, even winning once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 49 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said: am left wondering what if? What if Smith doesn't break his leg when the Skins start 6-3? I'm not suggesting the 2018 Skins were Super Bowl contenders but they clearly weren't bums either. Maybe they finish 10-6 and win a playoff game. Don't laugh they started 6-3 so finishing 10-6 is well within the realm of possibilities. They went 6-3 with Smith and I think they won only 1 after he went down. What if Smith stays healthy and Jay is 3-2 or 4-1 today? Smith's broken leg was horrible luck but the 2015 aftermath is all on the front office. They were not a good team last year. Smith was not a good QB. That was a smoke and mirrors show that was inevitably going to collapse, broken leg to a bad QB or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 11 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: They were not a good team last year. Smith was not a good QB. That was a smoke and mirrors show that was inevitably going to collapse, broken leg to a bad QB or not Well, that is your theory and perhaps it would have worked out that way but I think they would've done better. What we do know is they started 6-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jericho Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Veryoldschool said: Another major what-if for me is the aftermath of 2015. The Skins win the division on the strength of a passing game fueled by Cousins, Garcon and Jackson. The Skins let Garcon and Jackson walk and refused to meet a modest contract extension request by Cousins opting to apply the franchise tag to him instead. What if the Skins had confidently decided to reward their performers like competent franchises do and extended all three and kept a winning unit together? Things could have been a lot different and that is on Snyder, not Gruden. None of Cousins, Garcon, or Jackson were worth the contracts they signed. Garcon's was especially a dumpster fire. Jackson was merely overpaid and dumped by Tampa to move up from the 7th rounder into the 6th round of the draft. Not sure what happens on Cousins, but there's serious buyer's remorse there. Extended all three would have likely led to something very similar the team had last year. At least pre-Smith injury. Garcon would be retired. Jackson would be injured somehow, and Cousins would be sort of...okay. None of that is on Gruden, I agree. But overpaying for a possible 8 win season isn't exactly exciting either. 8 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said: Well, that is your theory and perhaps it would have worked out that way but I think they would've done better. What we do know is they started 6-3. It's not just a theory, but borne out by the numbers which had the team as the 4th worst in football. And some of that was weighted downwards by bad QB play (Mark Sanchez specifically) post-Smith. But it's not exactly a quality squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Jericho said: None of Cousins, Garcon, or Jackson were worth the contracts they signed. Garcon's was especially a dumpster fire. Jackson was merely overpaid and dumped by Tampa to move up from the 7th rounder into the 6th round of the draft. Not sure what happens on Cousins, but there's serious buyer's remorse there. Extended all three would have likely led to something very similar the team had last year. At least pre-Smith injury. Garcon would be retired. Jackson would be injured somehow, and Cousins would be sort of...okay. None of that is on Gruden, I agree. But overpaying for a possible 8 win season isn't exactly exciting either. So you preferred the tandem of Pryor and Doctson instead, now that was some serious Brucing there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Class dude. Good dude. And man, you can tell he is so relieved to be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousD Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Obviously, we're going to be arguing about Gruden for months to come. I mean, what else have we got to do? What he was, what he wasn't. What he did, what he didn't... But I'll go on record as saying, I liked the guy and I liked his offense. Could have been great even but problem was it was never juiced up... QB RG3 = Nope QB Cousins = Nope QB Smith = Maybe but nope QB Keenum = Absolutely nope RB Morris = Barely 1000+ yds in 2014 but declining skills and nope RB Rob Kelley = Nope RB Perine = Nope RB Old man Peterson = Yeah but, nope... TE Reed = Forget it... WR's = Only real bright spot was with Garcon and Jackson! Ironically coincides with 2 winning seasons but suspect QB and no running game to speak of and NOPE O-line = Urgh............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c slag Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 So would Jay rank above or below Mike Shanahan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 minute ago, c slag said: So would Jay rank above or below Mike Shanahan In terms of sheer enjoyment watching what highs there were among all the lows? Far below Shanahan. Far far below, even if our drafting and team building has actually improved in lots of ways, those offenses were generally fun to watch even with poor QB's, now it just feels futile. The fun of 2012 alone (until the end) would be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousD Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, c slag said: So would Jay rank above or below Mike Shanahan Shanahan has a superbowl ring. What's left to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, FuriousD said: Shanahan has a superbowl ring. What's left to say? I assume he meant the Gruden experience or Shanahan experience, from a Skins fan point of view. What they did before doesn't really effect how much we enjoyed those teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757SeanTaylor21 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Definitely shanahan..we had a run game...2012 was fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 I figured out someone whose career was ruined after working here under Snyder..... Vinny Cerrato lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousD Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 minute ago, ConnSKINS26 said: I assume he meant the Gruden experience or Shanahan experience, from a Skins fan point of view. What they did before doesn't really effect how much we enjoyed those teams Ahh sooo... Well, that's a little different. Shanahan was hard to like, period but he was definitely the better coach and his running game was pleasure to watch. I mean, what he did for Alfred Morris was as close to a miracle as this agnostic is likely to see! Gruden was far easier on the eyes and ears but never had the same football IQ. Clearly, Shanahan was able to coach his way to a win at times, even when the odds were not in his favor but Gruden never gave you that sense. Ultimately for Shanahan and all his talents, it ended so badly and so much energy is needed to purge it from memory, there's really nothing left to be thankful for.. I guess the same could be said for Gruden, except he was a nice guy and we know where they finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousD Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 16 minutes ago, Califan007 said: I figured out someone whose career was ruined after working here under Snyder..... Vinny Cerrato lol. Didn't know Vinny had a career when he showed up at Redskins Park! I guess you learn something every day... Thought he was a bum, living in a van down by the river... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Veryoldschool said: What if Smith doesn't break his leg when the Skins start 6-3? Then we finish 8-8 instead of 7-9. And we still miss the playoffs. Next question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 I don’t think Jay was a bad head coach, and he didn’t strike me as a bad person either. I hope he’s telling the truth and he’s not bitter about his experience here. He seemed like a nice enough guy and a fairly good coach. Trouble is this franchise can’t be elevated by a fairly good coach. Even great offensive minds haven’t managed to consistently impress here. Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVay were here from 2010 to 2016. Other than that one magical year from RG3, the Redskins have not had very impressive offenses. Player talent matters. One criticism I do have for Jay, and what certainly hurt his tenure here, are his choices for defensive coordinator. Jim Haslett, Joe Barry, and Greg Manusky? It’s like he wanted to make things harder than they needed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE HAMMER'IN HOG Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Snyder; "your fired!" Jay: "what about Manusky?" It was time, Jay for whatever reason was stagnate, this team needed a change .. any change! The question is; can a new head coach in this case BC, do anything with this O-line, an O-line BC has been in charge of, and has played terribly IMO under his tutelage? I know BC is beyond reproach as it pertains to O-line coaches, but that's what I do; call out the failure of such coaches, will he NOW realize Morgan Moses is a stiff, I don't care how big of a contract we gave him attempting to convince the world he's a top RT! Will he be able to get past Bruce Allen's tremendous people skills along with his "eye for talent", and mend the great gulf fixed between T. Williams and the organization? Will BC be able to perform a brain transplant on Manusky and replace it with the brain of someone who actually knows something about defense? And most of all; take Snyder for a ride!!! All things to be considered!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Cant believe people are playing the what if game with alex smith and his leg...,maybe we would have went 9-7 max the team wasnt good at 6-3 they got drilled two out of those 9 games and the wins were almost all lucky wins outside of the cardinals game....a good team handily wins games they are suppose to win but all our wins are nail biters for a reason...because we arent that good were never that good and wont be good forawhile.. 1 hour ago, FuriousD said: Obviously, we're going to be arguing about Gruden for months to come. I mean, what else have we got to do? What he was, what he wasn't. What he did, what he didn't... But I'll go on record as saying, I liked the guy and I liked his offense. Could have been great even but problem was it was never juiced up... QB RG3 = Nope QB Cousins = Nope QB Smith = Maybe but nope QB Keenum = Absolutely nope RB Morris = Barely 1000+ yds in 2014 but declining skills and nope RB Rob Kelley = Nope RB Perine = Nope RB Old man Peterson = Yeah but, nope... TE Reed = Forget it... WR's = Only real bright spot was with Garcon and Jackson! Ironically coincides with 2 winning seasons but suspect QB and no running game to speak of and NOPE O-line = Urgh............ Um cousins played well in his offense 30 plus tds a season almost 5k passing yards a d hes a nope?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 When Gruden was picked to come here, there were people who questioned the choice. He was another Florida Tuskers alumni, along with Haslett, which explained why he was kept on while Shanahan was axed. But in Cincy, he did ok; not great but just ok. They got to the playoffs but were bounced out, but it was more of the talent in place than Gruden's abilities. I was frustrated with him, he had a laundry list of character flaws which inhibited him from succeeding, and there's no one to point the finger at but him for that. But overall he was hamstrung by the FO, and there was no getting around that. I've sat in front of the screen just as many others, cursing, throwing things, and there are a number of fingers to point the problems around here, so I'm just relieved that one is gone. I suspect that the next team that throws 40+ on the Redskins will cause Manusky to follow suit. We all know how Snyder loves to hire former players to work for the team, I wonder if at times he has them go to his office and re-create their signature plays in front of him while he has his hands down his pants; or does Bruce take care of that for Dan as well? So I just wish Gruden the best and am glad one of the issues is now gone, and yes I'm still dreaming of the day that Bruce Allen is finally shown the door. Until that day comes, I doubt things will get better; they WILL change, but more of a lateral change, nothing in a positive light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempre_victrix Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Gruden was a symptom of a much more insidious disease. I have nothing against Callahan, per se, he is just a place holder until the off season. I truly hope we get stomped by the Dolphins. I would view it as something akin to chemotherapy, a short term discomfort used to setback something more serious. I want everyone to continue to see how dysfunctional this organization is. Until the local press starts ripping Dan and Bruce hard for the utter destruction of this franchise, nothing will ever change for the better. The only thing that motivates Dan is money and as long as the TV checks cash, he barely cares. Maybe, just maybe, being embarrassed and repeatedly called out in the local press and having his stadium deal held up will move him to action. Does he not have any pride? He claims to be a fan, but would a fan allow their beloved team to become, and remain, the laughingstock of the NFL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Hammer Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Jay is a good guy and a class act. I hope he gets another chance to coach, somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 What would he have to be bitter about? He got a long leash, he had some bad luck, he made some dubious decisions, and he didnt have GM control, which isnt unique to Wash. That said, I appreciate his response saying he wasnt bitter, but it almost implies that should even be on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Can't disagree that Jay is a good guy. Can we now have a nasty ruthless ****er as head coach please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 This was a tough year for Jay, his back was against the wall from the beginning but I do think his personality type is opposite of what this team needs right now. His overall performance here as a head coach had mixed results but there were many seasons where he was left with inferior talent and he had to make chicken salad out of chicken ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.