Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said: This approach is a normal one when you are dealing with a normal organization and normal people running it. But you cannot ignore past experiences with an organization when the structure of it has not changed. Especially when you have the same story, slightly different plot scenarios. If this was the first time anything like this came up I would never even propose what I believe they did to Gruden. They have proven since Dan took over this organization to never take the simplest approach to anything. The drama is always there. These guys do this half ass conjuring up of bull **** and then push it out into the public domain. They have knee jerk emotional responses to pretty much everything they do, and It trumps logic and simplicity. Because of this they should not be given the benefit of the doubt or assume they operate like normal people within a normal organization because of past behavior. These guys have proven to be emotional, nostalgic, petty and at this point they are probably jealous and angry....at least Dan. There is no logic. No rationality. Yet again I don't agree with you, but I do get the logic and your stance it's based on...I still think, though, that occam's razor can be applied in pretty much every situation, even ones dealing with people who are unscrupulous or devoid of character. If anyone doesn't trust them they are far more likely to believe they did this, but that belief doesn't make it more likely to have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Adama Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 I am not sure who is starting at Quarterback but I am hoping that Kevin O'Connell starts doing play calling so we can see how he is. I hope we don't let him leave the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 It just occurred to me how prickish the 5 AM firing was. The meeting was over, I figure, by 5:15/5:30. They probably gave Jay some time to clear out his office and leave the building. So, he gets in his car with his coffee mugs and shower shoes....and immediately drives head first into 7AM Monday Morning DC Beltway traffic. How do you not drive the car into a guardrail at that point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Past due and well-earned, but I take no joy in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightningBuggs Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: According to Sheehan and Russell in the off season, Jay was already fed up and didn't care a lot if it went south for him as for losing his job. i wouldn't doubt it and I think I can understand the feeling. I wouldn't be surprised if he's relieved. He's probably the happiest guy in the DMV today. He's finally free of this dysfunctional train wreck. I'd be dancing all day if I were him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 1 minute ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said: And RG3 had nothing to do with his failures...got it. Shanny at least had discipline..but he screwed the pooch on his DC's. That's what killed him. Not sure if Bruce was responsible for Hasslett, but It was discussed that Haz was a Bruce guy..so I agree Bruce is still the lynch pin of these failures It isn't that RG3 had nothing to do with his failures. It's that the team failed fundamentally to keep him in a structured environment. The moment he felt safe that he could butt-heads with the head coach and win was when it spelled his downfall. That's on Shanny for shooting himself in the foot and letting RG3 dictate when he got benched in the playoff game, and it's especially on Dan for forming a relationship with RG3 that put him on the same level as the head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Adama Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Just now, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: It just occurred to me how prickish the 5 AM firing was. The meeting was over, I figure, by 5:15/5:30. They probably gave Jay some time to clear out his office and leave the building. So, he gets in his car with his coffee mugs and shower shoes....and immediately drives head first into 7AM Monday Morning DC Beltway traffic. How do you not drive the car into a guardrail at that point? Because his brother is going to snatch him up as a coach. Jay knows football and will do well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbeagle85 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 This is going to be fun. Maybe the problem is we can't run the ball. 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, desertbeagle85 said: You can't get any worse at this point. Oh just wait for the ensuing coaching search. Cast a wide net, they say. Interview everyone, they say. End up with Ben McAdoo they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, DmvE said: Like you @KDawg i do not disagree totally with these statements. The only problem I have with comments like this is the developmental aspect. In drafting a quarterback in the upper part of the first round, no team should be having to develop things such as poor mechanics or footwork. Developmental is saved for late second early third at the earliest IMO. Philosophically I agree. I liked the Haskins pick in a vacuum based on ceiling. But I don't know that if I were drafting I would have taken him there. There were too many questions on him to warrant picking him that high. But I certainly thought he was very high on the big board as far as potential is concerned. And I'm not backing away from that. But his ability to improve even the smaller details is alarming. Potential doesn't outweigh that. I am hoping he shows more. But drafting a severe developmental project in the first round is one thing... Drafting one in the first round with a head coach who you were almost certainly going to be moving on from is another. That's where my bigger concern is. I can't knock drafting Haskins too much, even if I'm not sure I would have in that spot. But the totality is scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazel-Ra Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, Blue Collar Skins said: I believe that is almost universal. Who doesn't love bacon? Well except for vegetarians. Orthadox Jews and Muslims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbeagle85 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said: Oh just wait for the ensuing coaching search. Cast a wide net, they say. Interview everyone, they say. End up with Ben McAdoo they say. On Pace for the most points scored on a team. Like I said can't get much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Simmsy said: Nobody said this would fix everything, can we just enjoy the moment, please? What is there to enjoy? He has no chance to ever succeed in this rat**** organization. Woo, we fired a guy who will probably go to another team and look a lot better like EVERYONE who leaves here does. As long as Allen is here, nothing to be happy about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShredSkins Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Just now, Blue Collar Skins said: Because his brother is going to snatch him up as a coach. Jay knows football and will do well. I actually expect the Vikings to get Jay. If maybe just as a QB coach or assistant coordinator. Jay has never been the same without Kirk, and Kirk hasn't been the same without Jay. They need each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddyork Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Jay just got a promotion today! Feel happy for the guy. Probably playing golf right now collecting his paycheck. Next stop Oakland... Will miss his humor.... Best of luck. But, a change was needed... Too bad Danny boy's girlfriend Bruce is still there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, KDawg said: You're not wrong on most of this (in my opinion). I don't buy the narrative that if you can't develop Haskins you can't develop a QB, but I do buy the narrative that we can't develop a QB with our situation. No guru is going to want to come here because the reality is that these gurus will have many offers from better franchises. The only way the narrative changes is with Allen being removed, in my opinion. But damn if you're not correct and on the same page with me every where else. This is such a bad situation. Yep, it's a really bad situation. We put the cart before the horse in drafting Haskins and that was a major risk. But I think the impetus behind that was, hey we just had a blue chip QB prospect unexpectedly fall into our laps at 15. Just get the talent in the building and figure the rest out later. The QB and HC is a partnership though. It has to be in order to have a functional offense and locker room. Gruden is on X point in his career timeline with us while Haskins is on Y, and Gruden isn't really willing or able to buy in on having a true partnership. So he's got to go. But now you've got to find a coach that is willing to be that kind of partner with Haskins and you're right, it's going to drive away candidates. Not because of Haskins really, but because any coach knows he has to nail this partnership in his first year and most coaches are going to want to pick their own guy from this year's draft. That's why part of me wants to steal Ryan Day from Ohio State. Already having that relationship with Haskins would be a head start. He's a good coach too. And I think he could work with Kyle Smith and Doug Williams too. Regardless, I think we should be consulting with Urban Meyer on the next hire because the man clearly has an eye for coaching talent and he understands Dwayne as well as anyone. NFL HC gigs are desirable no matter the team, so there will be interest in the job. You've got an owner that's willing to lose money and, for a loser organization like us, Gruden was given time. This job is better than fan's realize. It's absolutely critical to make the right hire now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 17 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: You weren't wrong about RGIII. He was an incredible prospect. We just failed with him. He got severely hurt and his coaches quit on him and the new regime never wanted him. We robbed the NFL of a star talent. We're not the only one that does that, the Cardinals probably just did it too with Rosen. But it definitely doesn't give me a lot of confidence in our ability to successfully develop Haskins (or another QB prospect) moving forward. There are two NFL truisms about quarterbacks that I learned from an OG draft thread friend named darrellgreenie. I repeat them often, but never really seem to sink in for most fans: 1 - Franchise QBs are made and not found. 2 - Bad franchises don't make franchise QBs. We've been a bad franchise and we have failed with good prospects. That doesn't mean we'll always be a bad franchise. But TBH, a near-term turnaround doesn't seem likely. That's why I view Haskins as a test. His progress is reflective of the progress of the organization as a whole. I was very friendly with darrellgreenie and liked his posts. He had some combative exchanges though here with others. But I got along well with him. The one I really battled with was Oldfan especially about Shanny but we got along in the end -- he was a tough debator. 😀 I worshipped RG3 and yeah greenie among others was with me on him. I disagreed with him though on Colt-Kirk. He liked Colt as a QB but didn't like Kirk. I had the reverse take if I had to pick one of the two. The reason why I can't rally though on RG3 is he seemed to push back on the read option. And Shanny pushed hard in interviews once he left that RG3 basically loved to work out but didn't love to watch film. If he was correct on that front, then judging by Bruce Arian's book -- RG3 was doomed to fail. Arians likes to say QBs that don't study hard fail from his experience. Also RG3 hasn't done anything since he left. But it would be tough to find a bigger fan than me of him back to his senior year at Baylor. I do agree with your point that a franchise has to cultivate and develop the QB. And yeah at the time I thought the Redskins failed RG3. But over time, I've come off of that point of view because he's done nothing since he left. He was even out of the NFL for a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Adama Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 1 minute ago, ShredSkins said: I actually expect the Vikings to get Jay. If maybe just as a QB coach or assistant coordinator. Jay has never been the same without Kirk, and Kirk hasn't been the same without Jay. They need each other. Actually Kirk did fine this past weekend. They drew up more passing plays and he wasn't too cautious. Granted it was against the Giants but they are changing. I can see what you are saying though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 There is little doubt that Callahan will structure and call a gameplan that places more emphasis on the run game. And that’s certainly the best short-term outcome from this. Any kind of offensive identity will be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Adama Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I do agree with your point that a franchise has to cultivate and develop the QB. This is definitely a huge point. Kyle Shanahan catered the playbook to RG3's strengths and they did fantastic. Coaches need to bring quarterbacks along slowly to their game plans if a quarterback is not there that suits their system. And the coaches need to understand that rather than trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DmvE Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, KDawg said: Philosophically I agree. I liked the Haskins pick in a vacuum based on ceiling. But I don't know that if I were drafting I would have taken him there. There were too many questions on him to warrant picking him that high. But I certainly thought he was very high on the big board as far as potential is concerned. And I'm not backing away from that. But his ability to improve even the smaller details is alarming. Potential doesn't outweigh that. I am hoping he shows more. But drafting a severe developmental project in the first round is one thing... Drafting one in the first round with a head coach who you were almost certainly going to be moving on from is another. That's where my bigger concern is. I can't knock drafting Haskins too much, even if I'm not sure I would have in that spot. But the totality is scary. Weighing potential versus the amount of the development it would take a player to reach that said potential is not a situation you want to put yourself in when drafting at the premium picks in the first round. Potential and ceiling are fancy words that are sometimes misrepresented. As far as drafting him with a head coach you know is headed out of the door. As much as I dislike some of Jay's accountability issue and head coaching attributes, no coach should be handed a first round quarterback who doesn't align with the vision of how the position should be played or how they player will develop in there team. The first round of the draft is so vital for teams to get right that potential, ceiling, and development should never be a focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbeagle85 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: There is little doubt that Callahan will structure and call a gameplan that places more emphasis on the run game. And that’s certainly the best short-term outcome from this. Any kind of offensive identity will be welcome. Well when you offensive line is garbage and your starting rb is 34. Not sure that's a good identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 I think more than a generic "run the ball more" solution, maybe recognize that AP is the best RB currently able to play, so perhaps cater the running game to his strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 6 years overdue. Good riddance. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Grant Paulson is so smarmy. Dude blasting this firing as if Gruden was being blamed for everything like a scapegoat by everyone, ignoring the fact that he has been mediocre pretty much his entire time here and many have wanted him gone for awhile. No one thinks his firing is going to turn the team around in 2019. His false narratives are awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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