Riggo-toni Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 From the article posted by @Skinsinparadise To me, the criticism is fairly simple and straightforward: If the people making decisions are scared to answer questions about their decisions, because they are not defensible, they should not be making those decisions in the first place. If they do not feel they owe their fans any explanation of their decisions, they also should not be allowed to make them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probos Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 25 minutes ago, justice98 said: We said that before, then Marty showed up, then Gibbs showed up, then Shanahan showed up. Not to mention the respected assistants that have passed through here like Gregg Williams, Marvin Lewis, Mike Nolan, Kyle Shanahan, Callahan and Tomsula, etc. They can always get somebody decent to come here. Even Spurrier was in demand prior to coming here. They'll wont succeed when they get here, but Snyder can get good people in the building. Not to say they always get their guy, see the Zorn fiasco. I get where you're coming from -- but, there's a lot more failed history working against Dan now. He might be able to get a few of them "in the door", but sealing the deal is gonna be more difficult. And, like you said, they won't succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Whoever Kyle Smith (new GM - Allen gone) wants as his head coach in 2020 but I would look for a Defensive guy this time elevating O'Connell to be the OC and leave consistency for Haskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 You'll always find a coach. I do think someone like Dabo or Riley will have options that make the already not particularly desirable Skins job even less so. I think that's the problem now. It's not like Dan won a bidding war for Shanahan. The money and power Dan offered were better than retirement. If you go through Dan's coach searches. He doesn't win "bidding wars." What he does is convince people to take a new challenge. Marty was retired and wasn't being actively pursued. Spurrier was always being discussed as an NFL coach, but it was generally accepted that he was never leaving college when Snyder finally got him. Gibbs, clearly, was not a bidding war. Zorn was actually the result of losing the fight for an in demand coach. Shanahan was retired. Gruden is really the only traditional hiring process we've ever done. This is why I think Urban Meyer is far more likely than Dabo or Riley. Urban has already coached Florida and Ohio State. At this point, the only college jobs that make any sense are Alabama and USC.....or a dramatic Holtz/Spurrier move to play out the string at a place where you really can't compete. Also, as a 55-year-old "retired" college coach who has all kinds of red flags (particularly his health), he's more of an "interesting" NFL prospect than an "in demand" NFL prospect. I'm sure teams have asked him, but this is not a situation where he is absolutely going to coach again, and it will be in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I have no idea, but I think there will be one surprise about him. meaning I think it will either be a first time coach, or a defensive coach. We haven't had a defensive coach since Marty and we've always gone vet, first time pro coach with each of Snyder's hires so we're due for a vet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 17 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: If you go through Dan's coach searches. He doesn't win "bidding wars." What he does is convince people to take a new challenge. Marty was retired and wasn't being actively pursued. Spurrier was always being discussed as an NFL coach, but it was generally accepted that he was never leaving college when Snyder finally got him. Gibbs, clearly, was not a bidding war. Zorn was actually the result of losing the fight for an in demand coach. Shanahan was retired. Gruden is really the only traditional hiring process we've ever done. The main reason he lost a fight for an in demand coach in 2008 was they went out and hired Zorn as the offensive coordinator and promoted Blanche to defensive coordinator before filling the head coaching spot and allowing them to work with the brass and hire the coordinators they wanted. Not an attractive situation to walk into, especially for vet coaches/coordinators. Of course, this is pure speculation on my part, but I've wondered the last couple of years if giving Jay that extension and staying out of his way (at least in the public eye) and letting him coach, is his attempt to appear as becoming more patient to make the HC job more attractive to the top candidates once it becomes available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panninho Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, HigSkin said: Whoever Kyle Smith (new GM - Allen gone) wants as his head coach in 2020 but I would look for a Defensive guy this time elevating O'Connell to be the OC and leave consistency for Haskins. I'd like to share your optimism. I don't think Allen will be gone. Obviously it's insane to keep him but I just don't think he'll be gone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho fan Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Panninho said: I'd like to share your optimism. I don't think Allen will be gone. Obviously it's insane to keep him but I just don't think he'll be gone... Unfortunately I agree with you. And this is the the problem. As long Allen and Dan are running this **** show the disfunction will continue. The answer is as HigSkin said - the next head coach should be whoever a new (REAL) GM wants. Period. Even if Bruce and Dan somehow manage to lure in and bring in a top young coaching candidate it won't matter. The disfunction will continue. The weird little petty internal games will still be played. Decisions will continue to be made without a plan in place and result in failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Oh, I think the odds of Allen leaving are extremely small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbias Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 His press conferences alone would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I expect Bruce to stay and hire Todd Bowles, for more money and longer terms then Todd Bowles could reasonably get anywhere else that would have him. I don't hate Bowles, but don't see Bowles as the kind of guy that can rise above this **** show. What I expect to see though are some fans explaining away why Todd wasn't successful in his previous stint and convincing themselves why he will work out here. I then expect him to inevitably draw the ire of the fanbase within a season or two, with him eventually resigning near the end of his tenure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 It doesn't matter what coach they bring in as long as Bruce Allen is the one doing the hiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbias Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said: It doesn't matter what coach they bring in as long as Bruce Allen is the one doing the hiring. Allen is just a PR shield for Snyder. Once the heat makes it's way to Snyder he'll fire Bruce to replace him with someone who will also make stupid decisions while taking responsibility for those moves. We'll have a totally different person whom most of the fan base will accept as a symbol of hope and change. It will take us 5-7 years to realize it's all the same then another 2-5 to turn the heat back on Snyder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Unbias said: Allen is just a PR shield for Snyder. Once the heat makes it's way to Snyder he'll fire Bruce to replace him with someone who will also make stupid decisions while taking responsibility for those moves. We'll have a totally different person whom most of the fan base will accept as a symbol of hope and change. It will take us 5-7 years to realize it's all the same then another 2-5 to turn the heat back on Snyder. None of this negates the fact that Bruce Allen is terrible at his job and should be fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Gruden is still employed?!? W....T....F.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbias Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said: None of this negates the fact that Bruce Allen is terrible at his job and should be fired. It all depends on what you think his job is. If you think his job is to make enough moves to be relevant in the off season so fans don't leave then try to be the main target for fan frustration (keeping Snyder clean), then he's probably done okay. I've mentioned this in another thread. The fans are judging the team's success by watching each week and looking at the trophy case. The owner is judging the team's success by looking at weekly sales numbers and his investment account. Here's a fairly straight forward question - If Snyder really cared about the on field results how can he not have went a different direction? Allen has been with us since 2010. We are at the start of the 10th season and he's got a regular season record of 59-88. What other GM in pro sports that is not a family member of the owner is allowed to do that poorly, yet seems to have full control over all football operations??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho fan Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, Unbias said: Allen is just a PR shield for Snyder. Once the heat makes it's way to Snyder he'll fire Bruce to replace him with someone who will also make stupid decisions while taking responsibility for those moves. We'll have a totally different person whom most of the fan base will accept as a symbol of hope and change. It will take us 5-7 years to realize it's all the same then another 2-5 to turn the heat back on Snyder. Not saying you are wrong but I do think that Allen makes more GM type decisions than you're suggesting. I think Dan has been involved less than in the past except of major decisions like the Haskins pick and head coach hiring. I think Allen takes the majority of blame for things like Cousins fiasco, Trent situation, etc. etc. IF Dan does fire Allen which I hope he does and brings in a real GM and actually allows him to do his job I think we would see improvement and see a lot less disfunction. However Dan would still be the owner so as you suggest there is always the chance that he finds another inept / puppet etc. I guess we will see. I think if things continue like this for the rest of this season Dan has to replace Allen. At that point we can debate which type of GM he hired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSurrender Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 This is the leader we need and deserve. Make it happen Dan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbias Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, Idaho fan said: Not saying you are wrong but I do think that Allen makes more GM type decisions than you're suggesting. I think Dan has been involved less than in the past except of major decisions like the Haskins pick and head coach hiring. I think Allen takes the majority of blame for things like Cousins fiasco, Trent situation, etc. etc. IF Dan does fire Allen which I hope he does and brings in a real GM and actually allows him to do his job I think we would see improvement and see a lot less disfunction. However Dan would still be the owner so as you suggest there is always the chance that he finds another inept / puppet etc. I guess we will see. I think if things continue like this for the rest of this season Dan has to replace Allen. At that point we can debate which type of GM he hired. I agree with you 100%. Allen does many of the football decisions, but he also takes instruction from Snyder. That's why he's quite unpredictable. Part of his decision making process is his own and the other half he can't defend, but pretends to be responsible for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho fan Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Unbias said: I agree with you 100%. Allen does many of the football decisions, but he also takes instruction from Snyder. That's why he's quite unpredictable. Part of his decision making process is his own and the other half he can't defend, but pretends to be responsible for. Again can't disagree with you on this. My thinking (My hope or maybe my delusion?) is that Dan is so desperate for a change, for wins, for improvement of his terrible image that he actually decides to hire a real GM. A real GM won't take instruction from Snyder. Obviously owners (all owners) are involved at some level on major decisions but they don't have more influence in those decisions than a GM does. Most owners (I assume) look to their GM to ultimately have the final say of what is best for the team. Some still fail but at least there is a plan put in place by an experienced football mind. Clearly this organization is stuck in a maze arbitrarily making decisions with no direction. Its why they think they are "close" yet they are the furthest they have been from getting through the maze. Lame analogy I know but it fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 32 minutes ago, Xameil said: Gruden is still employed?!? W....T....F.... N....E....P.... that's short for New England Patriots if it's not clear. Nothing good would come out of switching coaches now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, carex said: N....E....P.... that's short for New England Patriots if it's not clear. Nothing good would come out of switching coaches now I don't think anything good can come out of switching coaches at any point this season, outside of appeasing the fans that want blood. Based on what I'm hearing about ticket sales, they aren't hurting thanks to the Pats faithful bandwagon. Perhaps Dan will wait until the next home game with less than impressive ticket sales and try to revive them with a coaching change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 16 minutes ago, carex said: N....E....P.... that's short for New England Patriots if it's not clear. Nothing good would come out of switching coaches now Nothing good comes from keeping him either. Just rip the band aid off and get rid if him, and manusky. Then replace Allen at the end of the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Unbias said: His press conferences alone would be great. He may actually be the best option, having been a head coach before. If Manusky is let go, maybe moving him up to Interim HC is the way to go I wouldn’t want to put Callahan in the slot. I don’t want him to control what KOC would do as the OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, Xameil said: Nothing good comes from keeping him either. Just rip the band aid off and get rid if him, and manusky. Then replace Allen at the end of the season sure it does. The interim coach doesn't have to coach for 2/3rds of a season with his first game a humilating loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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