Erosion Of The Redskins Fanbase

[Peregrine]

21 minutes ago, MarkB452 said:

Let me refresh your memory:

 

https://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/news/article/13039846/the-cranky-redskins-fans-guide-to-dan-snyder

 

Here's the tree incident:

 

U

Unobstructed View: What Snyder wanted of the Potomac River from the back of his Montgomery County home. To accomplish this, he cut down trees protected by the National Park Service. The episode marked one of the rare times Snyder got crisis PR help. He retained Mike Sitrick, who helped with damage control for the Michael Jackson family after the pop star’s death and Paris Hilton after one of her arrests.

 

This article is now 9 years old.  We need an update!

Interesting note on that tree incident, the guy in question who helped Snyder do it, is now the acting director of the National Park Service.

[thebluefood]

What really gets on my nerves about this whole thing is that directly up I-95, in Baltimore and Philadelphia, you have front offices that are models for consistency. Steve Bisciotti and Jeff Lurie have facilitated consistently winning teams and though the latter's is having a tough year (along with the rest of the NFC East), he's overseen two successful rebuilds in 25 years. Washington hasn't seen one in that same span. 

[dicksogj]

On 12/16/2019 at 4:33 PM, HouseBowlrz said:

 

My first reaction was that we do host Cincinnati next season but since the two teams already played out there in 2016, I doubt they'd send that game again.

 

Other out of division rotational home games: Baltimore, Rams, and Seattle.  Positional home opponent: NFC South.

 

Ugh.  Can you imagine how many Ravens fans are going to be at FedEx. Pencil that in as a home game for them.

4 minutes ago, thebluefood said:

What really gets on my nerves about this whole thing is that directly up I-95, in Baltimore and Philadelphia, you have front offices that are models for consistency. Steve Bisciotti and Jeff Lurie have facilitated consistently winning teams and though the latter's is having a tough year (along with the rest of the NFC East), he's overseen two successful rebuilds in 25 years. Washington hasn't seen one in that same span. 

 

Yep - not to mention that they are also in the same town as two recent championship teams.  Beyond trying to learn from these successful teams you would have to believe that this would increase the pressure on Snyder to actually do things correctly & also be successful.  However IMO to be successful an owner has to question what they have done wrong in the past, learn from it & make related adjustments.  I don't believe that Snyder's ego will allow that.

[hatchetwound]

13 hours ago, stoshuaj said:

Get in line behind the Browns/Jags/Bucs, who else?

 

We only think Skins are best at being worst, lol.

 

It would be interesting to see how the NFL could force a move but not sure it’s even plausible or why it would be considered here anyway.

Are we really any better than those 3 teams?

 

The Jags are just two years removed from an AFC Championship game apperance

Tampa's most recent records aren't great, but are no really better than us.  Plus they won a superbowl this Century.

Cleveland might be our closest competator.  But even though recent W-L records go in our favor, they seem to be finally putting it together.  They have a lot more talent than us, more cap space than us and more draft capital than us.  They are a coach away from being a contender.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I think there is a difference between being dysfunctional and being bad.

 

For a long period of time, this team was more the former than the latter. The Bengals are a decent example of this. They actually had some decent seasons under Marvin Lewis while still being wildly dysfunctional. I think the Chargers have been a mess for a long time, but they have had Philp Rivers there to cover up a lot of it.

 

I've oddly never thought of the Browns as "dysfunctional" until this year. They've just been bad.

 

For a long time, the Skins were able to occasionally put together a hopeful season even if they didn't really know what they were doing. Spend a lot in free agency, get a miracle season out of RGIII, and you can get to 10 wins.

 

At some point, though, dysfunctional leads to permanently bad. Think of the last decade of Al Davis.

[justice98]

13 hours ago, stoshuaj said:

Get in line behind the Browns/Jags/Bucs, who else?

 

We only think Skins are best at being worst, lol.

 

It would be interesting to see how the NFL could force a move but not sure it’s even plausible or why it would be considered here anyway.

 

I think we forget the Bills missed the playoffs for 17 years in a row.  17.  Havent won a playoff game since 1995.  Now they seem to have turned it around, but they werent relevant for a long while.  I dont think that fanbase ever "eroded" in that time.  

 

The Lions havent won a playoff game since 1991.  They've had 3 winning seasons in 19 years.  And that's with a franchise QB.

 

Oakland has 12 double digit loss seasons in the last 17 and are leaving town.  They also have a franchise QB and cant really move the needle.

 

The Redskins certainly dont have the market cornered on futility.  Our thing is just there's so much "other" stuff that goes with it.  They cant just be bad, they have to do embarrassing stuff and have drama off the field.

[cakmoney61]

59 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

I think we forget the Bills missed the playoffs for 17 years in a row.  17.  Havent won a playoff game since 1995.  Now they seem to have turned it around, but they werent relevant for a long while.  I dont think that fanbase ever "eroded" in that time.  

 

The Lions havent won a playoff game since 1991.  They've had 3 winning seasons in 19 years.  And that's with a franchise QB.

 

Oakland has 12 double digit loss seasons in the last 17 and are leaving town.  They also have a franchise QB and cant really move the needle.

 

The Redskins certainly dont have the market cornered on futility.  Our thing is just there's so much "other" stuff that goes with it.  They cant just be bad, they have to do embarrassing stuff and have drama off the field.

Their are levels to this type of annual futility and we have to admit that the Redskins may be at the highest level.  Honestly, how many teams can you say are at the clown show level?  The key to reaching this level is a consistently deplorable FO and the Redskins have had that for two decades.  It's sad my fellow fans but it's true. 

 

This goes beyond the play on the field.  The organization is under constant attack by other media and is considered a laughingstock.  Based on what I've heard and read, the Redskins are the very last team a respectable coach would want to come and it's because of the FO. 

 

And who has been a constant presence in the FO for over 20 years?  Exactly.  Free agent atrocities, the lopsided trades, the favoritism with certain players, playing GM, outlandish parking prices, telegraphing draft picks, in-house problems getting out in the public, etc., etc., etc.  There's futility and then there's a clown show.

[profusion]

2 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

I've oddly never thought of the Browns as "dysfunctional" until this year. They've just been bad..

 

The Browns have been highly dysfunctional at least since the Haslams bought the team. Just a constant churn of new GMs and HCs. Read up a little on Jimmy Haslam. Quite a piece of work.

 

The Cardinals and Lions are examples of teams being bad without being horror shows of dysfunction.

[thebluefood]

1 hour ago, profusion said:

 

The Browns have been highly dysfunctional at least since the Haslams bought the team. Just a constant churn of new GMs and HCs. Read up a little on Jimmy Haslam. Quite a piece of work.

 

The Cardinals and Lions are examples of teams being bad without being horror shows of dysfunction.

Honestly, if there's any owner in the league who's a bigger snake-in-the-grass than Snyder, it's probably Jimmy Haslam. Those two, Stan Kroenke, and Dean Spanos are in that upper realm of POS NFL owners.

[stoshuaj]

3 hours ago, justice98 said:

 

I think we forget the Bills missed the playoffs for 17 years in a row.  17.  Havent won a playoff game since 1995.  Now they seem to have turned it around, but they werent relevant for a long while.  I dont think that fanbase ever "eroded" in that time.  

 

The Lions havent won a playoff game since 1991.  They've had 3 winning seasons in 19 years.  And that's with a franchise QB.

 

Oakland has 12 double digit loss seasons in the last 17 and are leaving town.  They also have a franchise QB and cant really move the needle.

 

The Redskins certainly dont have the market cornered on futility.  Our thing is just there's so much "other" stuff that goes with it.  They cant just be bad, they have to do embarrassing stuff and have drama off the field.

I was just swagging it but here’s a link:  

 

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/every-nfl-teams-10-year-record-ranked-32-1-010417

Skins are 26th, woo!

 

I get the dysfunctional FO and fan angst angle but I guess I’m looking for a real reason or precedent for the NFL to “force him to sell or move the team”.  (Not quoting you, paraphrasing the thoughts).   It isn’t going to be bc the owner is a doofus or the team sucks and the fans/area deserves better.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Owners are very reluctant to interfere with another franchise, because they don't want that precedent set. If they can tell Snyder what to do, then someone else can tell them what to do.

 

That's why it's pretty notable that the league pretty much forced the hiring of Lafemia when they did. Telling the "marketing genius" that he didn't know how to market his team was a huge deal.

 

But Snyder showed the limitations of that too by turfing that dude.

 

I think the one thing that makes the Skins different from the Bills and the Browns is the market. DC is the seventh largest market and one of the richest. Having the ratings and attendance tank there impacts the rest of the owners in a way that Buffalo does not. Which is why I think eventually, it good be an issue. But I think we are a solid decade away from that happening.

[SkinsFTW]

On 12/17/2019 at 8:47 PM, Theismann07 said:

But, you’re right, he’s definitely trashed everything that has been associated with the organization and ruined it for a whole generation.

 

 

He's definitely well into ruining it for a second generation by now.

 

Think about it. The 15 year old Redskins fans in 1999 when he bought the team are now almost 40 with their own teenagers.

[SkinsFTW]

7 hours ago, stoshuaj said:

I was just swagging it but here’s a link:  

 

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/every-nfl-teams-10-year-record-ranked-32-1-010417

Skins are 26th, woo!

 

 

 

That article is missing the 2017-2019 season.

 

I'm sure the Redskins are lower than 26th by now or after this season is done.

 

The Rams were 32nd then, but now? The Lions 0-16 drops off the list too.

The Lions were only 3 games worse even with that 0-16 in there

[DCSaints_fan]

On 12/17/2019 at 5:56 AM, Theismann07 said:

Listening to Kevin Sheehan this morning. Caller made a suggestion that Snyder needs to be forced to get out of town and move the team and D.C. be granted an expansion team by the NFL. A sort of do over and start from scratch on the rebuild. 
 

Maybe this would be our only hope to get out from Dan Snyder’s reign. As long as we got to keep the name, colors, history, etc. Hmmm...interesting thought.

 

Maybe someone could convince Snyder to sell the Redskins and buy the Baltimore Orioles.

 

At least thats one sport where spending translates into winning. 

[stoshuaj]

20 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

That article is missing the 2017-2019 season.

 

I'm sure the Redskins are lower than 26th by now or after this season is done.

 

The Rams were 32nd then, but now? The Lions 0-16 drops off the list too.

The Lions were only 3 games worse even with that 0-16 in there

Just looked, including ‘18 they are 28th.  And still a crazy long way from Clev.

 

My original point wasn’t an attempt to refute their stinkage, it was an effort to quantify the NFL stepping in other than “I hope they get moved bc they stink” (again paraphrasing) bc that ain’t happening.
 

It’s been written on here and is now apparently a topic on local radio.  Other than emotionally, there is no real precedent for the team to forced to move. 

[88Comrade2000]

4 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

That article is missing the 2017-2019 season.

 

I'm sure the Redskins are lower than 26th by now or after this season is done.

 

The Rams were 32nd then, but now? The Lions 0-16 drops off the list too.

The Lions were only 3 games worse even with that 0-16 in there

Because that article is from Jan. 2017.   It's an out of date article.  With the decade about to wrap up; I'm sure there will be more currently articles next year.

[profusion]

18 hours ago, stoshuaj said:

 

I get the dysfunctional FO and fan angst angle but I guess I’m looking for a real reason or precedent for the NFL to “force him to sell or move the team”.  (Not quoting you, paraphrasing the thoughts).   It isn’t going to be bc the owner is a doofus or the team sucks and the fans/area deserves better.

 

It either has to be some sort of significant #metoo type of thing (Jerry Richardson) that opens up the league to massive publicity problems and/or legal liability, or severe financial problems that jeopardize the team's ability to function.

 

Heck, even Bob Kraft's "massages" weren't enough, since they didn't threaten liability to the team or league itself.

 

It's interesting that the ballooning of franchise values has brought in a whole new type of owner--huge egos, sometimes shady business dealings,  and no prior relationship to the game itself or to sports as a business.

[The Sisko]

18 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

It's interesting that the ballooning of franchise values has brought in a whole new type of owner--huge egos, sometimes shady business dealings,  and no prior relationship to the game itself or to sports as a business.

I think that’s part of why I’m really kind of “meh” about the NFL these days. It’s a much more corporate experience than it was when I went to my first games as a teen. I’m sure there’s some of the usual good ole days nostalgia in my view, but I really do think the experience is very different, and not for the better. 

[justice98]

47 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

It either has to be some sort of significant #metoo type of thing (Jerry Richardson) that opens up the league to massive publicity problems and/or legal liability, or severe financial problems that jeopardize the team's ability to function.

 

 

Kinda helped that the cheerleader thing didnt get more traction than it did, which was almost none.  

[justice98]

20 hours ago, profusion said:

The Cardinals and Lions are examples of teams being bad without being horror shows of dysfunction.

 

I thought about the Cardinals, but they're not as bad.  They at least had pockets there of respectability.  The Kurt Warner years getting to a SB (and damn near won it), and the Arians years kinda are enough to keep them out if the discussion for me.  That's in the last 11 years.  But '83 all the way to Whisenhunt in the late 2000s, they would absolutely be in the mix.  They havent really been consistently horrible since then.

[profusion]

2 hours ago, justice98 said:

 

Kinda helped that the cheerleader thing didnt get more traction than it did, which was almost none.  

 

Also, no one was able to tie that personally to Snyder.

 

If he'd been photographed down there in Central America trying to be a pint-size Hef, then the scandal might have gotten more traction.

[Riggo#44]

I'm curious, if Bruce Allen is retained, how much worse is it going to get?

[Veryoldschool]

 

[CrypticVillain]

53 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

I'm curious, if Bruce Allen is retained, how much worse is it going to get?

It's going to get extremely ugly. Look how bad things got when Gruden was fired too late. If Allen makes it to 2020 as Redskins President, I might have to stop watching until he's gone. I can't take another year with dude. I'll always be a fan, but there's no reason he should still be here.

[Mr. Sinister]

1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said:

I'm curious, if Bruce Allen is retained, how much worse is it going to get?