samy316

Erosion Of The Redskins Fanbase

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The fanbase is as large as ever really...it’s just that a solid percentage of them are so broken that their fandom exclusively entails morning zoo/blogger hot takes and openly pining for essentially every member of the organization to get fired or cut or traded.  It’s pure nihilism.

 

I have several friends who are Lions fans, Browns fans and Jets fans.  They literally haven’t known any real measure of success in 40+ years or more.  Not one of them, in the decades that I have known them, have ever spewed the amount of vitriol on their on team that I saw here on a daily basis...WHEN THE TEAM WAS 6 & 3.

 

In retrospect, Snyder’s decision to pursue an adversarial relationship with the established local media was short-sighted and it has cost him dearly...as well it should.  In an ownership tenure marked by several dreadful errors, that is perhaps his most egregious misstep.  But, if you as a “fan” have decided to spend decades of your life digesting/regurgitating rumors and sources and spending 16 Sundays year hate-watching because the Sports Junkies told you to...well, you might wanna rethink your position.

 

Snyder has stepped back, the team is drafting well, we have a ton of high-quality/hard working players to root for, the Haynesworth/Deion/Archuleta/Cerritos days are over, the swamp tomb that JKC left us with will be gone soon.  There is a clear path for any fan to follow this team and take some measure of joy from it.  But it’s a choice.  Optimism is a choice...and with this franchise, it’s a choice that requires a measure of courage and resolve and faith.

 

I made that choice.  And you should too.

 

Hail.

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Whew. THB I'm as homer as they come, but I can't see optimism the way you do no matter how hard I try. 

 

While I agree that the direction and methods have changed, the outcomes haven't and I really don't see light of day for a long time to come. This team is stuck with putrid leadership from the top down. In the business world, you're guaranteed to fail. In the sports world, the results are anywhere from 3-13 to a lucky year of 9-7 every now and then with an outlier of 10-6 from time to time.  A. Dan. Snyder. Owned. Team. Will. Never. Win. A. Super. Bowl. Ever. Ever. 

 

Zero chance. His bad leadership will rot away any chances of success. 

 

I'm already ready for college basketball season, something I've NEVER said before mid November. At least my Missouri State Bears are going to be great this year and dominate the MVC Conference. 

 

Hail. 

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Hatewatch is a pretty funny term.  Hatewatching is what I do when I watch the Cowboys or what TryTheBeal watches the Vikings for.  Where you are rooting against a team vs. for a team.  For as much as I dislike the boobs who run the organization, I never hatewatch the Redskins.  I always 'want' them to win.  I watch every game and have never once rooted for them to lose.  I just lack the juice for Redskins games anymore and no longer get excited pre, during or post game.  It's going to take more than a 6-3 start consisting of nail biters against other inept teams and getting blown-out by legit ones to get the fan base jacked up again. 

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
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those tv ratings are shocking to me. people really do not care. it shows in the stands and it shows during a week 2 Redskin Cowboy game. 

 

And as far as being 6-3 last year, we all know that was a big old house of cards 6-3.  If I remember the defense gave up 500+ yards to Ryan Fitz..  LMAO. 

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55 minutes ago, LetThePointsSoar said:

Whew. THB I'm as homer as they come, but I can't see optimism the way you do no matter how hard I try. 

 

I'm already ready for college basketball season, something I've NEVER said before mid November. At least my Missouri State Bears are going to be great this year and dominate the MVC Conference. 

 

Hail. 

 

I am also very much looking forward to college basketball season.  I think my beloved VCU Rams have a chance to win the A-10.  I also know that they’ll never actually win the championship.  But I’m a fan and we recruit good kids and those kids deserve support, not venom.

 

The players on this Redskins team deserve the same...especially when they’re 0-2 against a pair of elite squads.  Anybody can show support when they’re 8-0 or such.

 

You can call it being a “homer”.  I’ll call it showing humanity.

 

I would also like to add that I am a lifelong Wizards fan, so my skin is pretty thick.  Additionally, I am on the record as having predicted both the Stanley Cup run by the Capitals and the NCAA title run by UVA.  Not because I can see the future, but because I had the courage to say it out loud.  Predicting disaster in the hope that one occurs has absolutely no value.  Predicting glory in the hope that it occurs does...even though it’s rare and fleeting and invites scorn.

Edited by TryTheBeal!
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I definitely agree the area has a lot of college following however cities like Columbus, Baton Rouge, Tuscaloosa, etc like revolve around colleges.  It’s a whole different feel. 

44 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

I am also very much looking forward to college basketball season.  I think my beloved VCU Rams have a chance to win the A-10.  I also know that they’ll never actually win the championship.  But I’m a fan and we recruit good kids and those kids deserve support, not venom.

 

The players on this Redskins team deserve the same...especially when they’re 0-2 against a pair of elite squads.  Anybody can show support when they’re 8-0 or such.

 

You can call it being a “homer”.  I’ll call it showing humanity.

 

I would also like to add that I am a lifelong Wizards fan, so my skin is pretty thick.  Additionally, I am on the record as having predicted both the Stanley Cup run by the Capitals and the NCAA title run by UVA.  Not because I can see the future, but because I had the courage to say it out loud.  Predicting disaster in the hope that one occurs has absolutely no value.  Predicting glory in the hope that it occurs does...even though it’s rare and fleeting and invites scorn.

 

Hey we won the A10 tourney before and we are certainly capable of making a tourney run again.  Might take some growing and really great recruiting but we got to the final four with a very senior group 1-2 star recruits. 

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2 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

I made that choice.  And you should too.

 

Hail. 

 

I loved this post.  You are a first rate agitator and this was a beauty, and I agree with you on several points.  However, optimism isn't really a conscious choice for me.  I either believe in a take or I don't.  For example, I was over the moon with optimism when we drafted RGIII.  After that went up in flames, absolutely done with anything this franchise was selling.  Came back in a couple of years by talking myself into Kirk and the McCloughan experiment, then when that went to **** and the Alex Smith debacle played out and I'm back to having zero faith in the front office.

 

But then my favorite quarterback prospect ends up falling into our lap and I'm back on board in believing we at least have a chance to get good again.  I can't choose to be optimistic, I need to believe in the players and personnel men that we have.

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1 hour ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

I am also very much looking forward to college basketball season.  I think my beloved VCU Rams have a chance to win the A-10.  I also know that they’ll never actually win the championship.  But I’m a fan and we recruit good kids and those kids deserve support, not venom.

 

Agreed on all points. 

 

My Bears play VCU this year and debated flying out for it...until I saw it's on a Sunday when the Redskins are playing 2 hours down the road. Hard to justify going that far and not catching the game in Landover instead. Never know though, maybe they'll set the basketball time for an evening game and might make it a double header kind of trip. 

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3 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Optimism is a choice...and with this franchise, it’s a choice that requires a measure of courage and resolve and faith.

There is nothing courageous about being an optimist for this organization.  Courageous is putting your money where your mouth is and betting hard earned cash on prosperity for this franchise.

 

Resolve, I'll give you that.

 

Faith.  That's where the bucks stops.  Similar to religion and politics, where folks brainwash themselves into having faith in a pastor or politician even though all the signs point to them being rather awful people.  In order to have faith, you first have to believe.  Dan needs to do something to make people believe and the faith will follow.

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56 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

I definitely agree the area has a lot of college following however cities like Columbus, Baton Rouge, Tuscaloosa, etc like revolve around colleges.  It’s a whole different feel. 

 

Hey we won the A10 tourney before and we are certainly capable of making a tourney run again.  Might take some growing and really great recruiting but we got to the final four with a very senior group 1-2 star recruits. 

 

Coach Mike has us going in a great direction.  I’m looking forward to a great year.

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1 hour ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

I am also very much looking forward to college basketball season.  I think my beloved VCU Rams have a chance to win the A-10.  I also know that they’ll never actually win the championship.  But I’m a fan and we recruit good kids and those kids deserve support, not venom.

 

The players on this Redskins team deserve the same...especially when they’re 0-2 against a pair of elite squads.  Anybody can show support when they’re 8-0 or such.

 

You can call it being a “homer”.  I’ll call it showing humanity.

 

I would also like to add that I am a lifelong Wizards fan, so my skin is pretty thick.  Additionally, I am on the record as having predicted both the Stanley Cup run by the Capitals and the NCAA title run by UVA.  Not because I can see the future, but because I had the courage to say it out loud.  Predicting disaster in the hope that one occurs has absolutely no value.  Predicting glory in the hope that it occurs does...even though it’s rare and fleeting and invites scorn.

 

This is an inspiring post and in some ways I'm right there with you. I love looking at the needle in the haystack type of optimism and saying "this could be the year" and "what if", but it does weigh on you. On a somewhat separate note, I have been one of the most defensive guys of Bruce since he's been here but it wears thin on you. Like the Wizards and Ernie. Sure there are some good moves but there's like a cloud of rain that just seems to hover over his head, and thus our teams head. It gets so bad that I almost root for that cloud of rain to take over the whole NFC East or the whole league just so we don't look as bad. 

 

And the most frustrating thing (almost identical to the Wizards) is that the general public, this place, radio hosts, almost everybody but management seem to see whats wrong and the way to fix it, but we do nothing similar to that. Well, I won't say nothing because I'll still hype Bruce over Vinny for leading us away from heavy FA investments (to a degree) and towards the draft. The draft hasn't been perfect but our team is getting younger and we are (somewhat) developing talent, which is what I was on here screaming for in the 00s. But the Kirk extension / trade / non-trade BS, the hiring of a GM, the firing of Manusky, the hiring of Manusky, the hiring of Barry, the hiring of Haslett, the hiring of Gruden (which I didn't mind as much because he was a young coach who had a resume which looked decent but he did have that Tampa stink), the not firing of Gruden, the trades (Mcnabb, RG3, Smith), now this Williams thing, the injuries, the handling of McCoy, etc. I am just thinking of incident after incident that frustrates me. Some of it I think is overhyped by the media and fans but how much I don't know. 

 

I still go into every week and every season hoping for a win, but its less and less because I think we're the better team and more because I don't know what else to do. This isn't a team I believe in, even up 17-0 I was saying to my dad that the Eagles have a QB that has shown he can come back from that type of deficit, and we've shown we can lose that type of lead (see NO). 

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6 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Like the Wizards and Ernie. Sure there are some good moves but...

 

This is the problem with mediocre leadership (that's what Bruce and Ernie are/were).  You need like 75% of your daily decisions to pan out in order to compete at the highest levels of these two leagues.  You can't be 50/50.  The best are too good and too professional to hang with if you're 50/50.

 

And beyond the critical personnel and salary considerations that a GM makes, you also need the personality that can create a culture of inspiration and self-sacrifice in pursuit of excellence for all of your employees, and they definitely don't do that.  That's what gets your all of your people to perform at a championship level.

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2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

This is the problem with mediocre leadership (that's what Bruce and Ernie are/were).  You need like 75% of your daily decisions to pan out in order to compete at the highest levels of these two leagues.  You can't be 50/50.  The best are too good and too professional to hang with if you're 50/50.

 

And beyond the critical personnel and salary considerations that a GM makes, you also need the personality that can create a culture of inspiration and self-sacrifice in pursuit of excellence for all of your employees, and they definitely don't do that.  That's what gets your all of your people to perform at a championship level.

 

I know the leadership is on another level, but I look at the Nationals with Mike Rizzo and he does a weekly call in with the Junkies. Now it isn't the best radio but I do love that he's accessible. I don't agree with all his decisions (would have loved to keep Dusty), but hearing from him is a big part of it. So he's been a consistent voice for the Nats for the past what 7 years? Through all the managers. Bruce only peeps out of his hole when there's good news, otherwise its Gruden saying half truths that he thinks are true and wind up being false later. Thats why I was laughing at Doc Walker this week telling Galdi not to listen to anything Gruden says, cause thats how its gotta be now. If he talked football, maybe I'd listen but he always gives a hyped up coach speek mixed with excuses and blaming defense/players for not performing. 

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3 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

The fanbase is as large as ever really...it’s just that a solid percentage of them are so broken that their fandom exclusively entails morning zoo/blogger hot takes and openly pining for essentially every member of the organization to get fired or cut or traded.  It’s pure nihilism.

 

I have several friends who are Lions fans, Browns fans and Jets fans.  They literally haven’t known any real measure of success in 40+ years or more.  Not one of them, in the decades that I have known them, have ever spewed the amount of vitriol on their on team that I saw here on a daily basis...WHEN THE TEAM WAS 6 & 3.

 

In retrospect, Snyder’s decision to pursue an adversarial relationship with the established local media was short-sighted and it has cost him dearly...as well it should.  In an ownership tenure marked by several dreadful errors, that is perhaps his most egregious misstep.  But, if you as a “fan” have decided to spend decades of your life digesting/regurgitating rumors and sources and spending 16 Sundays year hate-watching because the Sports Junkies told you to...well, you might wanna rethink your position.

 

Snyder has stepped back, the team is drafting well, we have a ton of high-quality/hard working players to root for, the Haynesworth/Deion/Archuleta/Cerritos days are over, the swamp tomb that JKC left us with will be gone soon.  There is a clear path for any fan to follow this team and take some measure of joy from it.  But it’s a choice.  Optimism is a choice...and with this franchise, it’s a choice that requires a measure of courage and resolve and faith.

 

I made that choice.  And you should too.

 

Hail.

 

I needed further proof, but  Im now convinced you couldve survived the poisoning in Jonestown even after downing a cauldron of kool-aid

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4 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

The fanbase is as large as ever really...it’s just that a solid percentage of them are so broken that their fandom exclusively entails morning zoo/blogger hot takes and openly pining for essentially every member of the organization to get fired or cut or traded.  It’s pure nihilism.

 

I have several friends who are Lions fans, Browns fans and Jets fans.  They literally haven’t known any real measure of success in 40+ years or more.  Not one of them, in the decades that I have known them, have ever spewed the amount of vitriol on their on team that I saw here on a daily basis...WHEN THE TEAM WAS 6 & 3.

 

In retrospect, Snyder’s decision to pursue an adversarial relationship with the established local media was short-sighted and it has cost him dearly...as well it should.  In an ownership tenure marked by several dreadful errors, that is perhaps his most egregious misstep.  But, if you as a “fan” have decided to spend decades of your life digesting/regurgitating rumors and sources and spending 16 Sundays year hate-watching because the Sports Junkies told you to...well, you might wanna rethink your position.

 

Snyder has stepped back, the team is drafting well, we have a ton of high-quality/hard working players to root for, the Haynesworth/Deion/Archuleta/Cerritos days are over, the swamp tomb that JKC left us with will be gone soon.  There is a clear path for any fan to follow this team and take some measure of joy from it.  But it’s a choice.  Optimism is a choice...and with this franchise, it’s a choice that requires a measure of courage and resolve and faith.

 

I made that choice.  And you should too.

 

Hail.

 

This aligns pretty close to my stance on things related to the fan base and the team. However, with one caveat which I will dive into in a bit.

 

I quite literally joined this board because the vitriol had gotten so out of whack in my opinion with how the team was finally building. The team was quite literally finally operating the way in which the fans, the WaPo, the Junkies, Jason LaCanfora, you name it were all screaming for years. Do a quick google search around 2009 and you’ll find articles on articles talking about building through the draft, staying away from high priced FA’s, drafting strong character guys, building from the inside out , collecting comp picks, telling Snyder to GTFO of things. Fast forward 10 years later and Jerry Brewer is writing some garbage piece about over correcting and being too boring. 

 

Its really a shame things haven’t quite come together like I thought they could have. The Smith injury really was devastating. To sink a 10th of your cap in a player who had an injury of his magnitude has created a situation where we are basically facing another cap penalty. I mean truly, that one took the air out of the sails of this regime. I was very tolerable of how they handled the Kirk contract situation. I was understanding of the Smith trade, although upset at losing Fuller. However, and I’ve always stated this, what was unacceptable was not capitalizing on a major asset in Kirk. As GM, you absolutely need to have the ability to make tough decisions. And one of them would have been reading the situation, understanding Kirk was never going to sign here long term, and traded “the team’s first franchise QB in eons” as so many on here would say. Unfortunately, Bruce and or Dan caved to public pressure (fans do have an ability to affect certain outcomes) misread the situation and totally screwed it up. And this feeds into my caveat above. They really can not afford to mis manage another big time asset in Trent. I understand Bruce and Jay need to win now, but at this point 6 years into Jay/Bruce, Dan needs to recognize that this team isn’t ready to contend. There is a really exciting young group of talent on this team, get a couple big time picks that can surround these guys when they are ready for a run. 

 

There absolutely have been bumps and mistakes along the way, every organization encounters them. And I am firmly entrenched in my stance that this team does have enough talent to compete (playoffs) and are being drastically held back by coaching. That being said, the vitriol and apathy and dedication to hate instead of support by the masses has lead to such a toxic culture that it’s time for Dan to pull the plug. No one wants to play for a fan base that spends more time complaining than appreciating. And as you pointed out, which I’ve said many times, there are organizations out there who have proven to be just as inept if not more so than us over the years. Those fan bases don’t act that way. They don’t bemoan 6-3 and not show up to the games because Kirk freaking Cousins is gone. All I can say is I hope and I pray that Dan when he does pull the plug, goes out and finds his Chris Ballard. I think we can all agree that finding a young talented personnel man to run the show will one, appease the fan base, and two help to continue to build things the right way. Sports are cyclical, and I have faith that one day the Skins will become relevant. I think the last few draft classes are a great start, now complete the job by bringing in young smart innovative coaches who know how to use these guys and continue to build the talent base the way we have been. I don’t see this season going anywhere, but remain optimistic as ever that the future is bright, bright as it’s been since Snyder bought the team.

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@HardcoreZorn Not that I expect you to take everything Lombardi says at face value given he's a major Bruce critic, but I think it would behoove you to listen to his segment on the Junkies from yesterday.  Even if you take all the Bruce stuff out of play entirely.  What he's saying about culture and what that means towards being successful.  That you can go and get some players or a good coach or whatever, but it all makes for nothing if you don't have culture.  That Dan constantly wants to acquire culture via a coach and/or players.  Sure, you can say that relying on the draft vs. free agency and things like that contribute to changing the culture.  There is just a lot more to it than that and it's why there is such a disconnect between the way you see things vs. the way a lot of us see it.  If I recall correctly, you're rather young and this isn't a knock, but you haven't experienced enough to probably truly understand what culture in the workplace is and how it drastically impacts the end result.  

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10 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

@HardcoreZorn Not that I expect you to take everything Lombardi says at face value given he's a major Bruce critic, but I think it would behoove you to listen to his segment on the Junkies from yesterday.  Even if you take all the Bruce stuff out of play entirely.  What he's saying about culture and what that means towards being successful.  That you can go and get some players or a good coach or whatever, but it all makes for nothing if you don't have culture.  That Dan constantly wants to acquire culture via a coach and/or players.  Sure, you can say that relying on the draft vs. free agency and things like that contribute to changing the culture.  There is just a lot more to it than that and it's why there is such a disconnect between the way you see things vs. the way a lot of us see it.  If I recall correctly, you're rather young and this isn't a knock, but you haven't experienced enough to probably truly understand what culture in the workplace is and how it drastically impacts the end result.  

 

Ill give it a listen at some point. But let me just say I don’t really care what Lombardi has to say considering he’s the same guy that said Doug Pederson had no business being a HC of an NFL team the September prior to the eagles winning the SB. His last stop as executive he was with the Browns where he oversaw one of the most horrendous drafts I’ve ever seen and was part of a 4-12 season before being outed a year later. Let’s just say his opinions don’t carry a whole lot of weight in my mind.

 

Im closer to 30 than 20, though obviously very young and much to learn. That being said, I absolutely do know how critical culture is to attaining success. I just would argue that building the right way is a critical component to building the right culture, and shouldn’t just be brushed aside as a tiny piece. There are other components of course, some of which I even touched on. I can see why after years and years of all leaks and fans complaining about that, Bruce did what he did, which is basically alienate the media. However, that decision over the years has backfired and contributed to mass speculation (90% of it negative) since no one actually knows anymore. Again, I think it’s time for a fresh start. A fresh face and a new culture established. I just hope they keep building the way they have, while also learning how to look at the big picture and maximize returns on aging or declining assets or assets like Kirk with no intention to stay.

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Also crossed into the apathy netherworld this year. Knew both games were over in early third quarter and just don’t care anymore; was involved whole hog 2012 and since 70s but now why should I care ? They don’t 

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7 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Ill give it a listen at some point. But let me just say I don’t really care what Lombardi has to say considering he’s the same guy that said Doug Pederson had no business being a HC of an NFL team the September prior to the eagles winning the SB. His last stop as executive he was with the Browns where he oversaw one of the most horrendous drafts I’ve ever seen and was part of a 4-12 season before being outed a year later. Let’s just say his opinions don’t carry a whole lot of weight in my mind.

None of it really relates to whether or not Lombardi was any good at his job or not though. 

 

11 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Im closer to 30 than 20, though obviously very young and much to learn. That being said, I absolutely do know how critical culture is to attaining success. I just would argue that building the right way is a critical component to building the right culture, and shouldn’t just be brushed aside as a tiny piece. There are other components of course, some of which I even touched on. 

The other components come ahead of relying on the draft though.  There are other things that need to be there first for that to ever prove successful.  Starting with a clear and defined organizational structure.  Not this 'Redskins decision' facade they pitch that makes everything murky.  Until that whole thing is fixed with someone capable leading the charge, many of the Jon Allens, Terry McLauren's, etc. will just be wasted.  While Bruce gets the brunt of vitriol, it really all starts with Snyder and not trusting and empowering a guy like Bruce to handle everything.  

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3 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

Ill give it a listen at some point. But let me just say I don’t really care what Lombardi has to say considering he’s the same guy that said Doug Pederson had no business being a HC of an NFL team the September prior to the eagles winning the SB. His last stop as executive he was with the Browns where he oversaw one of the most horrendous drafts I’ve ever seen and was part of a 4-12 season before being outed a year later. Let’s just say his opinions don’t carry a whole lot of weight in my mind.

 

Those are fair criticisms of Lombardi as an analyst. But his comments are based on what he knows about Bruce as an individual and his reputation around the league. Let me put this out there since this is where most will want to go that disagree with him - Let's say say he is exaggerating. Even if he is only half right, for me it's still damning as hell. Now in Bruce's defense, I don't think he is the source of the poor culture. I think he is the enabler for Dan. Ultimately Dan sets the culture for the organization - whatever that is. Bruce can only have some much impact either positive or negative. I do believe he makes a bad situation worse. But again in fairness it goes back to Dan. 

 

Quote

Im closer to 30 than 20, though obviously very young and much to learn. That being said, I absolutely do know how critical culture is to attaining success. I just would argue that building the right way is a critical component to building the right culture, and shouldn’t just be brushed aside as a tiny piece. There are other components of course, some of which I even touched on. I can see why after years and years of all leaks and fans complaining about that, Bruce did what he did, which is basically alienate the media. However, that decision over the years has backfired and contributed to mass speculation (90% of it negative) since no one actually knows anymore. Again, I think it’s time for a fresh start. A fresh face and a new culture established. I just hope they keep building the way they have, while also learning how to look at the big picture and maximize returns on aging or declining assets or assets like Kirk with no intention to stay.

 

Also in defense of Bruce (wow twice in one response! I think I just threw up a little) - Dan started alienating the media from day one. He declared war with them from the outset. Now Bruce has taken to a new level - my biggest problem with him being he has no integrity to stand up take the beatings when they are due. Instead he sends people like Doug (initial AP signing, Reuben Foster) and Jay (Trent Williams issue and many, many others too numerous to count) out, but then taking a victory lap when it's perceived the team has done something positive (the recent draft that most felt we nailed). These are the very few times the team really does address major issues outside Jays after game stuff. 

 

BTW: Had he let Doug, Jay, or even Kyle take the victory lap then I would have no problem with his approach. He stays out of the media at all costs. Ok, not the usual position for a GM, but fair enough. But don't send others out to take beatings then make them sit it out when it's good news. Anyway, Bruce has not helped the media situation but he did not cause it either. Dan did that all on his own.

 

The problem with the silence for the most part is that it does let people speculate. For a team with a winning reputation that would be OK. But for a losing franchise everyone is going to go negative every time. So it just feeds on itself. 

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15 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

None of it really relates to whether or not Lombardi was any good at his job or not though. 

 

The other components come ahead of relying on the draft though.  There are other things that need to be there first for that to ever prove successful.  Starting with a clear and defined organizational structure.  Not this 'Redskins decision' facade they pitch that makes everything murky.  Until that whole thing is fixed with someone capable leading the charge, many of the Jon Allens, Terry McLauren's, etc. will just be wasted.  While Bruce gets the brunt of vitriol, it really all starts with Snyder and not trusting and empowering a guy like Bruce to handle everything.  

 

The only way I'd believe in a real change is if Danny fired Bruce,  made Joe Gibbs team president, and then sent regular pix of himself on his yacht during the offseason.  I don't Dan anywhere near training camp or Redskin's Park.  In fact, he should never even go on the game field.  Not even during preseason games.  Go from his house straight to his owner's box.  Then after the game straight from his owner's box to his house.  Then I'd be convinced to buy season tix; even in Fed Ex stadium.  Then I would dare to hope that real change occurred.  Anything else is just another of his telemarketing schemes.  Over promise - under deliver. 

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As I've said in the past, culture starts from the top. Whatever workplace environment players or coaches are thrust into will inevitably mold their attitude and behavior. You can have 100 employees and 100 managers crammed into one space, all with the right positive mindset, but it wouldn't matter if top leadership - be it one or a handful - propagates negativity and unaccountability because theirs is the authority and influence to instill, promote, or purge workplace value as they deem fit. 

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12 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Those are fair criticisms of Lombardi as an analyst. But his comments are based on what he knows about Bruce as an individual and his reputation around the league. Let me put this out there since this is where most will want to go that disagree with him - Let's say say he is exaggerating. Even if he is only half right, for me it's still damning as hell. Now in Bruce's defense, I don't think he is the source of the poor culture. I think he is the enabler for Dan. Ultimately Dan sets the culture for the organization - whatever that is. Bruce can only have some much impact either positive or negative. I do believe he makes a bad situation worse. But again in fairness it goes back to Dan. 

 

The main reason I think it goes back to Dan is because of what we've heard about him as a person. Dude put Vanilla Ice cream on Mike Nolan's desk not once but twice. Just based on that it puts a negative tone on it as a workplace. Given thats 20 years ago but what evidence do we have that he's a different person? Maybe Bruce or Gibbs can calm him down and tame him and not have him act out as much but if he's still housing these type of thought and trying to embed a culture of fear and exclusion, it doesn't work. 

 

And I turn to the firing of the executives last year. In the grand scheme of things maybe its nothing, but you don't hire a bunch of guys, say we're going to do things differently, and then fire that "different" staff after a year. This is the epitome of the Scott Mc, and Martyball stuff. Sure its a different department but he's not somebody that I would want to work for. And more than that, its still the same type of personality that we thought was the problem here when he was playing fantasy football with Vinny. 

 

And that makes it hard to see the positive outlook. Maybe we win a game here and there but no future forecase of winning. 

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6 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

The fanbase is as large as ever really...it’s just that a solid percentage of them are so broken that their fandom exclusively entails morning zoo/blogger hot takes and openly pining for essentially every member of the organization to get fired or cut or traded.  It’s pure nihilism.

 

I have several friends who are Lions fans, Browns fans and Jets fans.  They literally haven’t known any real measure of success in 40+ years or more.  Not one of them, in the decades that I have known them, have ever spewed the amount of vitriol on their on team that I saw here on a daily basis...WHEN THE TEAM WAS 6 & 3.

 

In retrospect, Snyder’s decision to pursue an adversarial relationship with the established local media was short-sighted and it has cost him dearly...as well it should.  In an ownership tenure marked by several dreadful errors, that is perhaps his most egregious misstep.  But, if you as a “fan” have decided to spend decades of your life digesting/regurgitating rumors and sources and spending 16 Sundays year hate-watching because the Sports Junkies told you to...well, you might wanna rethink your position.

 

Snyder has stepped back, the team is drafting well, we have a ton of high-quality/hard working players to root for, the Haynesworth/Deion/Archuleta/Cerritos days are over, the swamp tomb that JKC left us with will be gone soon.  There is a clear path for any fan to follow this team and take some measure of joy from it.  But it’s a choice.  Optimism is a choice...and with this franchise, it’s a choice that requires a measure of courage and resolve and faith.

 

I made that choice.  And you should too.

 

Hail.

 

giphy.gif

 

If I woke up as cheerful as you I'd have to kill myself before I went to sleep that night. That's not an insult. I'd fully know going back to my self loathing, negative life would feel so much worse after experiencing your gawd damn rainbow and unicorn paradise. 

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My take.   The homer part of view.

 

A.  Kyle Smith's rep might be a little inflated because we are so not used to have an above average draft guy but he's good.   And they've drafted well of late.  I especially love it when they draft some of my favorite prospects that I pushed.  So I get a rush for example when McLaurin succeeds, etc. 

 

B.  My passion really hasn't waned, I spend way too much money on this stuff.  😀  I got a Redskins credit card.  I'll pay extra money sometimes for field passes on the road.  I go when I can to training camp.  And I spent a lot of time on this board.  😀  I think part of my passion though is about just loving football.   I watch other teams, too, college, whatever I can find. 

 

C.  I am with the players about not booing them.  I back them.  I've never booed anyone at the stadium.

 

D.  I've dealt with the team charitable foundation and knew the person who runs it a little.  Cool person.  I've met and dealt with Larry Michael multiple times -- he is a great guy.   Some really nice people from my perspective work there.

 

E.  I think am pretty fair about player transactions.  I put my views out there usually in advance whether its FA or the draft or about keeping or letting our own guys go -- and when they do what I wanted, I praise them.  When they don't, i take shots.   

 

F.  I've said for years I think a franchise QB can turn this franchise around in spite of Dan.  I am definitely a critic of Dan but not among the group (which is most of the critics) that the franchise is doomed and will never win.  I think they can get lucky.  I don't see this as hopeless.

 

G.  Judging by comments on various threads, I think I am one of the more positive people about the season.  I am not throwing in the towel.  I think they can rebound. 

 

The critic in me. 

 

A.  As good as i think their college personnel department is, I think their pro personnel department is equally bad.  Heck even Cooley who is somewhat of a homer agrees with this and makes the point more strongly than I typically do. 

 

B.   My father's version of the Redskins (80s) and the team of my youth was competent and classy.  It was a cool team to root for.  This isn't a cool team to root for -- not even so much for the losing but lack of class.    This probably bothers me more than anything else.  

 

C.   If Dan and Bruce choose to have an adversarial relationship with the media.  Then they deserve every ounce of bad coverage they get.  To me it's part of their job to shape the organization's reputation.  But they don't.  And I see it as laziness or cowardice, take your pick.  I got to deal with the media in my job.  I don't love it.  Sure, it makes me nervous.  Sure, it takes work.  But it's my job.  

 

D. The whole the media gets some things wrong so we should question everything they write about them....using that same logic we shouldn't then believe anything about anybody.  The media will get things wrong.  Heck our friends recounting what happened to them today will likely get something wrong in the mix.  But when you got a big sample size about any public figure, there is usually something to the aggregate picture being painted.   Someone who lets say is painted by multiple sources as a jerk, is probably not really Mother Teresa. 

 

But even if i played with the idea we shouldn't trust any rumor or gossip -- in my view, they made their bed on that subject too.  For example, if Dan wants to go Greta Garbo on us, then he is leaving it to people to speculate and gossip.  That's a conscious choice by him.   So again I have no sympathy for them on this nor do I blame fans for clinging to whatever crumbs they can find info wise.  

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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