2023-24 Washington Capitals Thread

[mammajamma]

Watched the replay of the last goal and got sick watching Carlson basically just stand there and watch as the goal scorer went past him. Pathetic defense in front of the net. Then saw he was a -4 last night...

 

The guy has to go

[PokerPacker]

Seems I made a mistake peeking at this thread after last night.  See y'all next season.

[capcrunch98]

On 5/13/2022 at 11:07 PM, Hersh said:

Caps needed to begin a rebuild 2 years ago, but were so bull headed wanting to just be a big, physical (see slow) team that and just hit a lot. This team needs speed. The Mantha trade absolutely sucked. Carlson should've been gone as well. They'd be in a far better place now if they make hockey decisions and not emotional decisions. But that's Ted for you. 

I hear you, but there's no realistic way a rebuild could've been done a couple years ago. They were finishing at the top of the conference, they were selling out the building every night, memories of winning the Cup were still fresh, and the best player who will ever put on a Caps sweater still had some good years ahead of him.  

I had a feeling this team's window shut after they choked to Carolina in 2019; the same tendencies pre-2018 of taking entire periods off and nobody stepping up in the clutch were very apparent in that series. But I don't blame them for not blowing it up. They had a solid core, they thought they had a star goaltender in-waiting with Samsonov, and they saw for themselves in 2018 that getting hot at the right time is almost as important as who you put on the ice.

And fwiw, the main pieces they could've moved to bring back parts in a rebuild were either untouchable (Ovi and Backstrom), wouldn't have brought back much in return (Holtby, Kuzy coming off a down year, Eller, Oshie whose injuries were starting to pile up), or guys who would make no sense to trade (Wilson, who was the league's top power forward and who was still young). Carlson would've been the only one to trade, and they could've gotten a nice return for him, but dealing one guy isn't a rebuild so why get rid of someone who at the time was a Norris Trophy candidate?

 

Again, I agree that we'd be better off now had they started a rebuild 2 years ago, but it just wasn't possible, all things considered. 

 

[Hersh]

3 hours ago, capcrunch98 said:

I hear you, but there's no realistic way a rebuild could've been done a couple years ago. They were finishing at the top of the conference, they were selling out the building every night, memories of winning the Cup were still fresh, and the best player who will ever put on a Caps sweater still had some good years ahead of him.  

I had a feeling this team's window shut after they choked to Carolina in 2019; the same tendencies pre-2018 of taking entire periods off and nobody stepping up in the clutch were very apparent in that series. But I don't blame them for not blowing it up. They had a solid core, they thought they had a star goaltender in-waiting with Samsonov, and they saw for themselves in 2018 that getting hot at the right time is almost as important as who you put on the ice.

And fwiw, the main pieces they could've moved to bring back parts in a rebuild were either untouchable (Ovi and Backstrom), wouldn't have brought back much in return (Holtby, Kuzy coming off a down year, Eller, Oshie whose injuries were starting to pile up), or guys who would make no sense to trade (Wilson, who was the league's top power forward and who was still young). Carlson would've been the only one to trade, and they could've gotten a nice return for him, but dealing one guy isn't a rebuild so why get rid of someone who at the time was a Norris Trophy candidate?

 

Again, I agree that we'd be better off now had they started a rebuild 2 years ago, but it just wasn't possible, all things considered. 

 

 

Trading Carlson is a pretty significant step. That would've been a big infusion of young talent/prospects and potentially draft capital and potentially cap space. After that, there is a domino effect.

One of the big problems and one reason GMBM sucks, is that by continuing to attempt to contend, the Caps gave out some horrible contracts. If the Caps begin a rebuild and I would even say more of a retool cause they aren't tearing it all the way down, a competent GM isn't paying guys like Panik and Hagelin. They aren't big deals, but collectively that was a huge waste of $5 million and it cost the team a first round pick to move one of those contracts. The Vrana for Mantha trade that included the Panik salary dump for a pick, doesn't get done. Even if the Caps wanted to move on from Vrana, there would've been a lot of other options. 

 

So even if it's just Carlson to start, that leads to caps space, more picks and more young prospects in the system. Of course the team would've needed a head coach committed to incorporating young players more. There is no reason for the Caps to wait until Ovechkin retires to begin to get younger. 

[capcrunch98]

7 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

Trading Carlson is a pretty significant step. That would've been a big infusion of young talent/prospects and potentially draft capital and potentially cap space. After that, there is a domino effect.

One of the big problems and one reason GMBM sucks, is that by continuing to attempt to contend, the Caps gave out some horrible contracts. If the Caps begin a rebuild and I would even say more of a retool cause they aren't tearing it all the way down, a competent GM isn't paying guys like Panik and Hagelin. They aren't big deals, but collectively that was a huge waste of $5 million and it cost the team a first round pick to move one of those contracts. The Vrana for Mantha trade that included the Panik salary dump for a pick, doesn't get done. Even if the Caps wanted to move on from Vrana, there would've been a lot of other options. 

 

So even if it's just Carlson to start, that leads to caps space, more picks and more young prospects in the system. Of course the team would've needed a head coach committed to incorporating young players more. There is no reason for the Caps to wait until Ovechkin retires to begin to get younger. 

Definitely agree they need to start getting younger and cannot wait for Ovi to retire, just saying I'll give them a pass for not starting this 2 years ago. I read all your posts in the O's thread and you've stated correctly many times the Orioles should've started their rebuild in 2016, but the Caps were in a much different place the past few years - ownership and management had a legitimate belief they could make another run, even if a lot of us fans were skeptical. 

They just announced Wilson and Backstrom are dealing with series injuries and both could have surgery and miss time next season. Reports are even throwing out the "retirement" possibility for Backstrom. And of course Hagelin's career is in jeopardy. Will be interesting to see what the Caps do if some of these guys end up on longterm IR.

[Hersh]

 

Backstrom retiring cause of injury would suck. Sounds like he needs surgery. If it's a torn labrum, he could be back by January. 

[Hersh]

17 minutes ago, capcrunch98 said:

Definitely agree they need to start getting younger and cannot wait for Ovi to retire, just saying I'll give them a pass for not starting this 2 years ago. I read all your posts in the O's thread and you've stated correctly many times the Orioles should've started their rebuild in 2016, but the Caps were in a much different place the past few years - ownership and management had a legitimate belief they could make another run, even if a lot of us fans were skeptical. 

They just announced Wilson and Backstrom are dealing with series injuries and both could have surgery and miss time next season. Reports are even throwing out the "retirement" possibility for Backstrom. And of course Hagelin's career is in jeopardy. Will be interesting to see what the Caps do if some of these guys end up on longterm IR.

 

Angelos and Ted are similar in that they don't want to rebuild. What they seem not to understand is that fans are okay if you aren't good for a year or two or that retooling is better in the long run. What's remarkable is that ted doesn't seem to understand that the success of the Caps and the short-lived "success" of the Wiz were a direct result of getting high picks including a number 1 pick. 

 

Hell, look at GS now in the NBA or the Spurs when they got Duncan. A bad year or two after having success leads to long term success.

[capcrunch98]

44 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

Angelos and Ted are similar in that they don't want to rebuild. What they seem not to understand is that fans are okay if you aren't good for a year or two or that retooling is better in the long run. What's remarkable is that ted doesn't seem to understand that the success of the Caps and the short-lived "success" of the Wiz were a direct result of getting high picks including a number 1 pick. 

 

Hell, look at GS now in the NBA or the Spurs when they got Duncan. A bad year or two after having success leads to long term success.

I don't know anything about the NBA, but I know rebuilds in hockey - if done correctly - usually take a long time. IMO, a "one or two year retooling" is akin to rebuilding a plane in mid-flight, and it usually never works. The current Rangers are the only team I can recall doing a successful rebuild in less than 3 years, and they got incredibly lucky with an MVP goalie, winning the draft lottery, and a future Norris Trophy winner forcing a trade to NY.

And Ted did initiate a rebuild in 2003 - a long and painful one that many Caps fans were pissed about but that eventually brought us Ovi and the Rock the Red era. Although he was basically forced to do it because everything else he tried - especially bringing in Jagr and Robert Lang - failed spectacularly. 

Edited May 15, 2022 by capcrunch98

[86 Snyder]

I love Backy and everything he’s done for us over the years but I’m rooting for retirement.  He’s donzo due to that hip and freeing up that $9M salary could do wonders for this team.  Surgery and/or treatments and rest are not going to fix him.

 

Imagine what could be done by clearing $17M between Backy and Carlson, whom I do not love,  not to mention whatever assets you could get back from Carlson.  You could fix this team overnight.

[skinsmarydu]

Damn, this Pens/Rangers game is hot. 

[ixcuincle]

5 hours ago, capcrunch98 said:

I don't know anything about the NBA, but I know rebuilds in hockey - if done correctly - usually take a long time. IMO, a "one or two year retooling" is akin to rebuilding a plane in mid-flight, and it usually never works. The current Rangers are the only team I can recall doing a successful rebuild in less than 3 years, and they got incredibly lucky with an MVP goalie, winning the draft lottery, and a future Norris Trophy winner forcing a trade to NY.

And Ted did initiate a rebuild in 2003 - a long and painful one that many Caps fans were pissed about but that eventually brought us Ovi and the Rock the Red era. Although he was basically forced to do it because everything else he tried - especially bringing in Jagr and Robert Lang - failed spectacularly. 

The Rangers and Penguins rebuilt very quickly. Penguins is extremely interesting because that team continues to make the playoffs and find talent from WSB such as Guetzel and Marino.

 

The bill may come due next season (Malkin FA as well as others) but they keep lucking into situations with their players

Edited May 16, 2022 by ixcuincle

[mammajamma]

What a game in the Garden. Hate to see the Rangers win, but always happy to see Sullivan with his sulky face

[ixcuincle]

Speaking of which Rangers eliminated Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh was up 3-1 in that series.

 

Pittsburgh routinely makes the playoffs and finds good talent yet can no longer get out of the first round. Like the Caps. Thinking emoji

[mammajamma]

1 minute ago, ixcuincle said:

Speaking of which Rangers eliminated Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh was up 3-1 in that series.

I think they were up 3-0 in one of the games they could've clinched too. Complete Caps style meltdown and now a lot of guys leaving

[capcrunch98]

12 hours ago, ixcuincle said:

The Rangers and Penguins rebuilt very quickly. Penguins is extremely interesting because that team continues to make the playoffs and find talent from WSB such as Guetzel and Marino.

 

The bill may come due next season (Malkin FA as well as others) but they keep lucking into situations with their players

 

The Penguins haven't "rebuilt" in 15 years, and they're currently at the same spot as us - an aging core that is still talented enough to make the playoffs, but do nothing beyond that.

Edited May 16, 2022 by capcrunch98

[capcrunch98]

14 hours ago, 86 Snyder said:

I love Backy and everything he’s done for us over the years but I’m rooting for retirement.  He’s donzo due to that hip and freeing up that $9M salary could do wonders for this team.  Surgery and/or treatments and rest are not going to fix him.

 

Imagine what could be done by clearing $17M between Backy and Carlson, whom I do not love,  not to mention whatever assets you could get back from Carlson.  You could fix this team overnight.

 

Agreed.  I have little confidence in any of our young prospects to step up and become high impact players over the next 1 - 2 seasons, and I have little confidence in GMBM to swing a franchise-altering trade.  Right now, our only options are to stay the course (bad), blow it all up and begin a rebuild (not likely to happen with Ovi still here and playing well), or pray for some major cap relief like you mention to bring in a couple top-end free agents.  This scenario is the only way I see us being competitive over the next couple seasons. 

[hail2skins]

Vegas fired their coach today. Is Barry heading to the desert?

[@DCGoldPants]

"Friedman threw out possible outcomes being retirement or Backstrom missing an entire season." 

 

 Not going to read too deep into "we'll see" but it feels ominous. 

 

 

[skinsmarydu]

Rooting hard for Carolina, I'm so damn jealous of their fan base (and Nashville's).  It just sucks that a city as big as ATL (where public transpo is possible for hockey, unlike Braves games) couldn't keep it going. 

I'm wearing my Thrashers practice jersey from back in the day.  My blanket is still across the top back seat of my Monte Carlo.  I'll never be anything but a Caps fan now, but I get sentimental sometimes...especially the Knights, when our 3rd goalie was Manon Rheaume.  

 

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/women-sports-trailblazers-hockey-manon-rheaume

[hail2skins]

Wow, didn't expect game 1 of Calgary vs Edmonton to resemble an old timey All Star game!

[@DCGoldPants]

7 hours ago, hail2skins said:

Wow, didn't expect game 1 of Calgary vs Edmonton to resemble an old timey All Star game!

 

Listen to west coast sports on the Sirius app when going to sleep sometimes. Was lucky to hear the 1st Q+ of that from the Calgary home radio crew. They love their hockey. 

[capcrunch98]

On 5/18/2022 at 6:23 PM, @DCGoldPants said:

"Friedman threw out possible outcomes being retirement or Backstrom missing an entire season." 

 

 Not going to read too deep into "we'll see" but it feels ominous. 

 

 

We all love Backi and everything he's done for this team. But even he admits he'll never be the same.  Can't believe I'm at the point of saying this, but him retiring and giving us $9 mil in cap space to work with might be our only chance of being competitive the next couple seasons and pushing back the inevitable rebuild a bit.

[86 Snyder]

1 hour ago, capcrunch98 said:

We all love Backi and everything he's done for this team. But even he admits he'll never be the same.  Can't believe I'm at the point of saying this, but him retiring and giving us $9 mil in cap space to work with might be our only chance of being competitive the next couple seasons and pushing back the inevitable rebuild a bit.

I said it already upstream but if Backstrom retires and we move Carlson you suddenly have a lot of options to retool instead of rebuild.  
 

To me, the biggest problems this year were goaltending, Carlsons laughably poor (at times) defense, and stale center play on the 2nd and 3rd lines.  I’d move Eller also.

 

You do all that, you have close to $27M in cap space with the core of the roster intact, a strong free agent class, plus whatever you get back for Carlson and Eller.  You could definitely build a cup contender with that.  

 

I feel awful for Nicky but he’s just never going to right again and certainly not to the tune of $9.2M.

 

They proved against Florida the fight is still there…they were just outclassed.

 

Also, when Osh said they were *almost* all in, who do you think he was side-eyeing?  To me it was Carlson.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by 86 Snyder

[@DCGoldPants]

I hate to be agreeing with this from a team perspective and a Nicklas one. He probably should retire for his own good. He has his ring. Being able to walk when he's in his 50s seems important. 

 

If that equals cap too. Good. 

[Hersh]

What hip surgery is grueling to come back from for a professional athlete? I've had left hip surgery and will likely have right hip surgery in the next few years. Seems odd to me that it would force retirement.