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Players Need To Shut Up And Play (Morgan Moses & Josh Norman)


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Should I mention the ‘don't quote video or pictures in replies’ rule at this point?

 

Nicholson has shown more than potential. He has extremely good range and tackles. The communications stuff HAS to get cleared up but that’s not just him.

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8 hours ago, MartinC said:

The communications stuff HAS to get cleared up but that’s not just him.

Something tells me that after all these years with the same problems, it's not going to get cleared up.  I won't pretend to know exactly why these guys fail at communication regularly, but something tells me it starts with the coordinator.

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So it appears the Redskins are in need of not one but two starting tackles. Sunday they face La'el Collins, a guy I wanted them to take with a 7th round flyer seeing as he was not even a suspect in that shooting that made him undrafted. Many of us also wanted them to think long term and grab another top 10 talent in Jaylon Smith who also dropped after the injury.

 

It stings when our rivals are smart and we are dumb.

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I completely disagree OP. I want players and more importantly a culture on this team where players view each other as brothers and are ready to go to war for and with one & other.  The attitude and culture around Redskin park has been one of " Pick up a check" "F the Team" for many many years.

 

   Go watch old video yearbooks from the 80's and early 90's or Player profile documentarys on NFL network of Dexter Manley-John Riggins & Doug Williams and you will see a camaraderie & brotherhood that hasn't existed on this team in a veryyyyy long time. The closest we came to this was ironically under Gibbs II , Santana -Portis-Cooley -ST and all the guys under Greg Williams defense clearly went to war with one & other and it was more then just picking up a check and playing the game

 

  Gruden is losing the locker room, and deservedly so, Benching AP was idiotic move 

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21 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

So it appears the Redskins are in need of not one but two starting tackles. Sunday they face La'el Collins, a guy I wanted them to take with a 7th round flyer seeing as he was not even a suspect in that shooting that made him undrafted. Many of us also wanted them to think long term and grab another top 10 talent in Jaylon Smith who also dropped after the injury.

 

It stings when our rivals are smart and we are dumb.

 

Bruce wouldn't have been able to navigate that complex situation.  They had already said in the press that they'd hold out from anyone drafting him beyond the first round.

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13 minutes ago, megared said:

 

Bruce wouldn't have been able to navigate that complex situation.  They had already said in the press that they'd hold out from anyone drafting him beyond the first round.

 

Not sure I understand this post.  Neither were drafted in the first round and both signed, without hesitation if I'm not mistaken, because they had no choice.  Are you suggesting Collins would have played hardball when he fell?  He had no leverage, nobody wanted to touch that guy.

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1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Something tells me that after all these years with the same problems, it's not going to get cleared up.  I won't pretend to know exactly why these guys fail at communication regularly, but something tells me it starts with the coordinator.

 

Agreed. This ultimately falls on coaching.

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31 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Not sure I understand this post.  Neither were drafted in the first round and both signed, without hesitation if I'm not mistaken, because they had no choice.  Are you suggesting Collins would have played hardball when he fell?  He had no leverage, nobody wanted to touch that guy.

 

According to Klemko, Collins' agents told teams that if he was drafted after the third round, he would not sign with the team and would instead sit out a year and enter next year's draft. It was a gamble with multiple risks, and teams could have simply ignored the threat. 

 

After the draft, one of Collins' agents admitted that the move was a bluff.

 

"We can put it on the record now: We were never going back in the draft," his agency's general counsel, Rick Smith, told Klemko. "If someone had drafted him, we would've had a long, long discussion about it, but at the end of the day you can't go back in the draft. He could get injured, gain weight, or 10 great tackles could come out. Too many risks."

 

The bluff worked.

 

Collins went undrafted and ultimately signed with the Cowboys; Dallas gave him $1.6 million, all the money left in their rookie free agent pool, according to Ian Rapoport of the NFL Network.

While that is nearly $1 million less in total value compared to a late-round pick, the upside is that the Cowboys were able to make the entire $1.6 million guaranteed and Collins will be eligible for a new contract in 2018, when he can sign a more lucrative deal if he plays well.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/lael-collins-agent-nfl-draft-dallas-cowboys-2015-5

 

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21 hours ago, megared said:

 

According to Klemko, Collins' agents told teams that if he was drafted after the third round, he would not sign with the team and would instead sit out a year and enter next year's draft. It was a gamble with multiple risks, and teams could have simply ignored the threat. 

 

After the draft, one of Collins' agents admitted that the move was a bluff.

 

"We can put it on the record now: We were never going back in the draft," his agency's general counsel, Rick Smith, told Klemko. "If someone had drafted him, we would've had a long, long discussion about it, but at the end of the day you can't go back in the draft. He could get injured, gain weight, or 10 great tackles could come out. Too many risks."

 

The bluff worked.

 

Collins went undrafted and ultimately signed with the Cowboys; Dallas gave him $1.6 million, all the money left in their rookie free agent pool, according to Ian Rapoport of the NFL Network.

While that is nearly $1 million less in total value compared to a late-round pick, the upside is that the Cowboys were able to make the entire $1.6 million guaranteed and Collins will be eligible for a new contract in 2018, when he can sign a more lucrative deal if he plays well.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/lael-collins-agent-nfl-draft-dallas-cowboys-2015-5

 

 

So in other word they were scared to even spend a 7th on him due to this threat?  Awesome, they got played by a rookie with a label.

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This is a different type of shutting up, but I didn't think it warranted its own thread: 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/09/13/josh-norman-on-dak-prescott-anybody-can-do-that/

 

I'm sick of Josh Norman (and others) downplaying what our opponents have done. Dak has dominated us since he came into the league and what good does it do to run your mouth about how anyone can do what he does? You know what anyone can do, Josh? Dive helplessly toward a streaking WR as he hauls in a TD pass. Shut your mouth and play better. 

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On 9/10/2019 at 9:44 PM, TryTheBeal! said:

Moses has been here long enough to express himself...he’s earned it.

 

But his performance on Sunday needs to improve significantly.  And soon.

He’s been here long enough to false start in nearly every game, he’s proving that he’s a habitual false starter in the league.

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On 9/11/2019 at 5:29 PM, Skinsinparadise said:
The Redskins led the NFL with 32 accepted holding penalties last season; they had five such penalties accepted in the season opener. That's led to some complaining by linemen, notably right tackle Morgan Moses, that the team is being targeted. Moses was called for eight holds last season and two Sunday. Coach Jay Gruden said, "If they’re targeting you, you have a bullseye on your chest then you better be more careful with your hands. That’s the way it is, that’s the way it’s going to be. Hopefully we do a better of disciplining ourselves with our hand usage." The Redskins aren't good enough to keep overcoming these holding penalties.
 
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John Keim, ESPN Staff Writer7m ago

This is complete BULL****! Nothing that our lineman do is out of the ordinary. Better hand placement is nothing but A REF DECIDING you held. Watch other teams line play, same as the Skins. The only difference is ,is it called a penalty.

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I'm not sayin....I'm just sayin....

 

Let me start by saying I believe in all sports, calls our purposeful and timed at points in games. Whether it be a ref calling tick-tack fouls in college basketball, forcing a good player to have to sit a whole half with 2 quick fouls. Or placing a team in the bonus prematurely, changing the entire dynamic of a game. Or what about baseball where those clear outside pitches in the late inning being called strikes, taking the count to 0-2. This creates a clear advantage for the pitcher. Oh and don't get me started in hockey. So what about football, huh? Surely you don't believe the NFL is a pillar of integrity?  So lets see...the only offensive penalty that can stifle a drive (outside of a personal foul or offensive pass interference which is at least reviewable) is an offensive holding. If you call it on third down, you effectively stall whatever offense you want. An NFL ref can literally control the function of an offense. Its fairly difficult for a ref to control anything else in football when you think about it. But a ref really only needs about 2 or 3 well timed third down holding penalties to stifle a teams game plan.

 

IMO, the only time a ref should make a call is when a defender is held with a clear path to the QB for a sack - comparable to when a basketball player has a clear path to the basket on a fast break and a defender grabs him. Otherwise holding is about when a ref feels like calling it (which is bull**** in my opinion).

 

That being said...

 

The Redskins are indeed a targeted team IMO. Not sure when it happened, but it's happened. I recall a game a few years back where one of the Skins DBs clearly intercepted a ball in the back of the end zone. The refs ruled him out of bounds. They went to replay. Everybody and their blind cousins saw he made the play. NY came back with the ruling on the field bull****. Fox goes to the sideline where the DB is sitting. A ****ing coach walks by the player. The player shrugs as if to say what else can I do? The ****ing coach points at the damn Redskins logo on the front of the players jersey as if to say that's why you don't get the ****ing call. I believe there is truth to that. More importantly the team believes it which can cause a different mindset going into a game.

 

On the other hand....

 

Its been said that Callaghan is one of the best Oline coaches in the game with his version of the zone blocking scheme. But what about his blocking techniques?

All that have spoken about what he teaches has said its like nothing they've seen. So ask yourself this...if its nothing a professional football player has seen, do you think it might be something different for the refs as well? I mean the only time they see this type of blocking is when they ref the Redskins. So if they're unfamiliar with the technique and they can virtually call a holding penalty on every play anyway, maybe they're calling what they don't understand.  This may be a reach, but still. I'm trying to understand all the holding penalties when you're supposedly coached by one of the best in the game.

 

I don't know which of the two points I've made is valid (if any). But something is going on and I think the Redskins have something to do with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 9/13/2019 at 11:36 AM, TD_washingtonredskins said:

This is a different type of shutting up, but I didn't think it warranted its own thread: 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/09/13/josh-norman-on-dak-prescott-anybody-can-do-that/

 

I'm sick of Josh Norman (and others) downplaying what our opponents have done. Dak has dominated us since he came into the league and what good does it do to run your mouth about how anyone can do what he does? You know what anyone can do, Josh? Dive helplessly toward a streaking WR as he hauls in a TD pass. Shut your mouth and play better. 

Full damn context of the article for a ****ed up title:

 

“You stand back there in the pocket all day and go through your first, second and third reads and come back to your first one, OK, cool. Anybody can do that,” Norman told the Associated Press. “At the end of the day, he’s been playing well. As you can see, he’s evolved. He’s growing in the system. He’s just taking his keys and picking his targets and throwing the ball on time.”

 

Josh is giving Dak reasonable credit. You're doing the same thing reporters do to create drama. And there will be those that don't verify your post and rip Josh to shreds (there is a joke in there if anyone wants to take it).

 

Sheep ****.

 

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13 hours ago, joeken24 said:

Full damn context of the article for a ****ed up title:

 

“You stand back there in the pocket all day and go through your first, second and third reads and come back to your first one, OK, cool. Anybody can do that,” Norman told the Associated Press. “At the end of the day, he’s been playing well. As you can see, he’s evolved. He’s growing in the system. He’s just taking his keys and picking his targets and throwing the ball on time.”

 

Josh is giving Dak reasonable credit. You're doing the same thing reporters do to create drama. And there will be those that don't verify your post and rip Josh to shreds (there is a joke in there if anyone wants to take it).

 

Sheep ****.

 

 

I read that as Josh saying that Dak has all the time in the world and essentially just needs to hit targets like it's 7-on-7...to me that isn't reasonable credit. That's basically saying that he's a replacement-level QB who is succeeding due to the people around him and/or scheme. It's at best a backhanded compliment and, in my opinion, a thinly veiled insult. Similar to...

 

"yeah, the dude is making his wide open jumpers, cool. but defenses are sagging down on the two all-star big guys and picking their poison. he's improved his jump shot with practice and it knocking them down, but anybody can do that."

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Moses....   Just shut the hell up and do your job and quit worrying about who's running the rock. Just block someone for once so we stop having 30 yards rushing.  

 

And Josh Norman, did he actually say this was going to be a top defense of all time??  The guy is a clown. 

 

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I read that as Josh saying that Dak has all the time in the world and essentially just needs to hit targets like it's 7-on-7...to me that isn't reasonable credit. That's basically saying that he's a replacement-level QB who is succeeding due to the people around him and/or scheme. It's at best a backhanded compliment and, in my opinion, a thinly veiled insult.

Right.  He knew damn well what he was saying and it wasn't meant as a compliment.

 

He wasn't saying anything that many of us haven't said for a few years but it's still bulletin board BS that if you're going to say it, you better back it up.

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
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8 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Right.  He knew damn well what he was saying and it wasn't meant as a compliment.

 

He wasn't saying anything that many of us haven't said for a few years but it's still bulletin board BS that if you're going to say it, you better back it up.

Truly battered. But hey, I suppose its a matter of mindset. Amazing how a reporter can write something and successfully twist the story to create conflict. Read it how you must. Did you read the part where he said Dak is evolving? Now put the first part of that quote with this part. 

 

 

 

 

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