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The Skins Can't Win With These Coaches

desertbeagle85

By desertbeagle85
in The Stadium

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Csup

Csup

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It's like Sheehan read this thread, the irony is he covered this morning much of what we are talking about here.  Among his thoughts:

 

A.  This is considered a bottom feeder organization now.  It's not attractive for the top tier coaches

B.  He thinks if Bruce is gone it might make this place more attractive but he doesn't think by much because of Dan.

C.  He thinks its no secret that every coach who comes here leaves with a worse reputation than what he came with.

 

A fan called in who said he got into a conversation with Tony Wyllie yesterday.   The fan goes to him is there anything I can hope for as to things getting better, any chance Bruce can go?  Wyllie responded to him no chance that Bruce ever goes and he's here until he's in a coffin.  (Sort of a morbid way to put it but that's what the fan said).  Then Wyllie said if you want some hope, Haskins is the real deal, and they are learning from the RG3 situation and will treat him like kid gloves.  Or something like that.

 

Then Sheehan took off from that point saying he is hoping Bruce is vulnerable there but he could see how he isn't considering Dan really depends on him to be his voice all around town and at the owners meetings, etc.   He suggested Dan isn't comfortable socially and Bruce is a good crutch for him. 

 

Wylie is a talent evaluator and tell us Haskins is the real deal, huh?  Or did Bruce assure him.

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Riggo-toni

Riggo-toni

Posted
Posted

Lord Farquaad is going to Shell out Megabucks to a has been coach to lure him out of retirement, and along with all the moulah, he will hand him absolute control over personnel. Once this occurs, it's possible the new old coach will jettison Brucifer, Prince of Dimness...or he may keep him as a lackey like Gibbs did with Vinny Bugeyes.

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Or, was Dunny scared of being victimized by Cooper again?  Didn't Dunbar finish the Philly game?  

Dunny was hurt in the Philly game and missed practice this week.  

 

As hard as he worked to get back from the nerve issue, I doubt it is nefarious.  I think he just hurt. Again. 

22 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Really, the fault of the FO is their inability to attract or keep quality coaches.  I think they're definitely getting better at bringing in talent.  Sadly, I believe Kyle Smith and KOC will probably be gone next year :( 

Bruce didn’t try to find a better coach.  He waited until Cincy lost their playoff game and hired Jay. He knew he was going to hire Jay the minute they decided to fire Shanahan. That’s on Bruce for TB mafia nepotism. 

 

On the Wylie comments, that’s all fine and good, and it might be true right now. 

 

2 things:  if you were to say, right now, is the team living up to the talent, I think you’d have to say “no.”  Especially defensively.  That means MAYBE a coaching change would help. Even just a DC coaching change might help short term. This is a short term fix to a problem that won’t solve the long term issues. 

 

The other is that everybody was convinced Vinny was going to survive and stay forever. Beat guys, guys inside the organization, etc.  And Dan finally had enough, and parted ways with him. And it was completely shocking and out of the blue.  It might not be this year, but Dan was personally very close to Vinny and didn’t want to fire him.  I think the same is true with Bruce.  Eventually Dan gets there.  

 

I think Dan might give Bruce one more shot with another coach. Bruce didn’t hire Shanahan, Dan did.  So Dan might think he needs to give Bruce more runway with a new coach and the new QB they just drafted.  

 

And there’s no way to know how that might work out.  It might be they catch lightening in a bottle, it might be the next Zorn, or it might be the next Norv. 

 

History would indicate it is either Norv or Zorn. But the Bidwells hired Ariens and got to a SB, the coke junky in Indy managed to get Peyton and Dungy... sometimes luck happens.  And sometimes it doesn’t.  

 

I want Bruce gone as much as anybody.  But if he is going to stay, I’d like to see them at least get the most out of the teams they field.  And I don’t think you can say this staff, which includes Jay and the assistants, has done that since 2016. 

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Burgold

Burgold

Posted
Posted

Thing is, I don't think you can get a DC upgrade without getting rid of Jay (and possibly Bruce) Reason being, every good DC or good DC prospect knows that Jay's on the hot seat and if you can't convince them otherwise there's no reason to tie themselves to the mast of a sinking ship. We saw that last year. I think there was a semi-good faith effort to replace Manusky. They said they wanted too. Yet when the dust settled they replaced a few position coaches and really had to fight to even do that, managing to pull a few guys out of retirement.

 

I do think there's sufficient talent on this squad to excite a DC or new HC, but you have to get rid of some of rain clouds that hang over this team. Right now, like him or hate him, whether he's the problem or the victim, Jay is a rain cloud as far as DC's are concerned. I think Bruce is, too. I don't think Dan Snyder drags on their decision as much as others.

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BatteredFanSyndrome

BatteredFanSyndrome

Posted
Posted

Obviously, not putting all the eggs in the basket of some guy who said he talked to Tony Wylie.  But what he said is of no surprise to me whatsoever.  Just as it's fun for some fans to pretend the team is close and on the right track, it's fun for some of us to believe that more embarrassment will equate to Bruce's termination.  But deep down, I know that Bruce is entrenched and in no fear of ever losing his job.  He will get an opportunity to hire a new coach to brim optimism among the fan base, and we'll continue living this awful groundhog day over and over and over again.

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NoCalMike

NoCalMike

Posted
Posted

I doubt they could get a DC upgrade in the middle of the season as far as a coach with a resume, but if they decide to fire Manusky, then as a GM I would be bringing in every single assistant coach and have them interview by explaining what they see as what has been wrong with the defense thus far and what scheme-wise they would modify to help mask the weak spots and/or try to improve their performance.

 

 

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ThomasRoane

ThomasRoane

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I do think there's sufficient talent on this squad to excite a DC or new HC, but you have to get rid of some of rain clouds that hang over this team. Right now, like him or hate him, whether he's the problem or the victim, Jay is a rain cloud as far as DC's are concerned. I think Bruce is, too. I don't think Dan Snyder drags on their decision as much as others.

 

It seems like Jay is concerned more about someone being promoted over him (meaning he gets fired) from the DC position than he is in putting together the best staff.  Joe Barry and Manusky are both low-key, average DCs who aren't a threat.  You have the Wade Phillips bizzaro interview to throw into the mix and that makes you wonder if that's how Jay approached every DC candidate. 

 

The only guy I can see Jay bringing in would be Marvin Lewis.  I don't think he'd be a threat to Jay's job security and he would have instant credibility with the players.  Jay will never bring in Rex Ryan.  He'd be perceived as a threat to take his job. I like Manusky.  Seems like a good person.  But he's over his head as a DC.  The only way Jay can make it work with him is to give up play calling to KOC and spend more time on the defensive side of the ball.  Be a true head coach.  

 

All this just goes to show the genius of Joe Gibbs.  Hire a great staff and let them do their jobs.  

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Burgold

Burgold

Posted
Posted

@ThomasRoane  I'd agree except no one would ever confuse Joe Barry with low key and average. When selected, he already had the record of one of the worst defensive coordinators in NFL history. Everyone was confused by the pick esp. considering the people Gruden seemingly rejected or had to be wrestled even into interviewing.

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WilberMarshall

WilberMarshall

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Burgold said:

So, just for the sake of misery how do you aportion what we are seeing.  Off the top of my head:

 

It's the talent's fault. 23%

It's Bruce Allen's/the Front Office's fault 32%

It's the coaches fault 45%

 

Bruce the 'football guy' has compiled a 59-87-1 record. 

So folks can understand the level of suckitude.

 

This is plain Browns and Lions territory. 

 

 

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88Comrade2000

88Comrade2000

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Thing is, I don't think you can get a DC upgrade without getting rid of Jay (and possibly Bruce) Reason being, every good DC or good DC prospect knows that Jay's on the hot seat and if you can't convince them otherwise there's no reason to tie themselves to the mast of a sinking ship. We saw that last year. I think there was a semi-good faith effort to replace Manusky. They said they wanted too. Yet when the dust settled they replaced a few position coaches and really had to fight to even do that, managing to pull a few guys out of retirement.

 

I do think there's sufficient talent on this squad to excite a DC or new HC, but you have to get rid of some of rain clouds that hang over this team. Right now, like him or hate him, whether he's the problem or the victim, Jay is a rain cloud as far as DC's are concerned. I think Bruce is, too. I don't think Dan Snyder drags on their decision as much as others.

Who expects an in season improvement, if we fire Manusky now? He gets fired, he earned it. Any improvement won't occur until 2020 and a new regime.

41 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Dunny was hurt in the Philly game and missed practice this week.  

 

As hard as he worked to get back from the nerve issue, I doubt it is nefarious.  I think he just hurt. Again. 

Bruce didn’t try to find a better coach.  He waited until Cincy lost their playoff game and hired Jay. He knew he was going to hire Jay the minute they decided to fire Shanahan. That’s on Bruce for TB mafia nepotism. 

 

On the Wylie comments, that’s all fine and good, and it might be true right now. 

 

2 things:  if you were to say, right now, is the team living up to the talent, I think you’d have to say “no.”  Especially defensively.  That means MAYBE a coaching change would help. Even just a DC coaching change might help short term. This is a short term fix to a problem that won’t solve the long term issues. 

 

The other is that everybody was convinced Vinny was going to survive and stay forever. Beat guys, guys inside the organization, etc.  And Dan finally had enough, and parted ways with him. And it was completely shocking and out of the blue.  It might not be this year, but Dan was personally very close to Vinny and didn’t want to fire him.  I think the same is true with Bruce.  Eventually Dan gets there.  

 

I think Dan might give Bruce one more shot with another coach. Bruce didn’t hire Shanahan, Dan did.  So Dan might think he needs to give Bruce more runway with a new coach and the new QB they just drafted.  

 

And there’s no way to know how that might work out.  It might be they catch lightening in a bottle, it might be the next Zorn, or it might be the next Norv. 

 

History would indicate it is either Norv or Zorn. But the Bidwells hired Ariens and got to a SB, the coke junky in Indy managed to get Peyton and Dungy... sometimes luck happens.  And sometimes it doesn’t.  

 

I want Bruce gone as much as anybody.  But if he is going to stay, I’d like to see them at least get the most out of the teams they field.  And I don’t think you can say this staff, which includes Jay and the assistants, has done that since 2016. 

Shanny had the Skins job, the moment Denver fired him. It just took Danny a year to get him. Bruce is here because Shanny was fine with it.

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hail2skins

hail2skins

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I fly to give or take 2-3 games a year.  I used to go exclusively to Fedex but once I discovered other stadiums, I've done more on the road.  I've been to some of the newer stadiums like Dallas and Arizona and its night and day.

 

Lets take Arizona you got luxury hotels near by, you can walk to an outdoor mall with restaurant after restaurant (feet away from the stadium). Fed ex is light years behind the nicer stadiums.   Heck even some of the older stadiums like the Superdome at least have some character to it and are also in prime locations.

 

Fedex is a disaster.  I actually had a conversation with Lafemina once about it.  I talked about it on a thread at the time.  He agreed with me that you can soup up Fedex all you want but you still aren't going to fix the fan experience for fans enough.  They need to move out of there and get a new a stadium. He agreed.

FexEx had its issues from the time it opened, from the Beltway traffic to those with upper deck seats being pushed into the stratosphere with the club and suite levels, but at the time was seen as a decent upgrade to RFK.  A lot of it is that we weren't that far removed from the Gibbs glory days when it opened. But we still had Phil Hochberg on the PA and the band having an interactive part in the game. The team was mediocre, but it was a decent experience.

 

Then Snyder comes in and brings the loud music, carnival barker Mark Kessler, and monetizes everything. Jacks up parking fees, gets rid of the nice kids area for corporate tents, and installs those stupid dream seats which have degraded the lower bowl experience.

 

I think people were excited several years ago when the renderings for a new stadium were released, but I now don't see the Redskins leaving FedEx until after 2027. I'd like for them to look at the new Vegas stadium as a model for the new place, at least from a capacity perspective. The new LA stadium looks palatial, but also appears to be just a bit too big. 

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Dissident2

Dissident2

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, PigskinPhat said:

Jay has been with the team 6 years now, Bruce 8, averaging a less than .500 record, representing mediocrity. That’s the bottom line and it’s time for both of them to go. But we knew this at the end of last season and here we are again. Same sh!tshow, so what is new?

Less than .500 is not "Mediocrity" to me. It's failure. 

 

Bruce Allen is 42-72 since he's been here!!! In what world is that "mediocrity"? 

 

Gruden perhaps as a little more of an argument at 35-46-1, but I still don't consider anything under .500 to be "mediocre." We are terrible. Especially at the highest level of "leadership."

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, hail2skins said:

think people were excited several years ago when the renderings for a new stadium were released, but I now don't see the Redskins leaving FedEx until after 2027. I'd like for them to look at the new Vegas stadium as a model for the new place, at least from a capacity perspective. The new LA stadium looks palatial, but also appears to be just a bit too big. 

I just hope they put in a retractable roof.  And are not stubborn about it being only outdoors because of nostalgia.  

 

The gold standard is still Jerry World. That might change when the new LA stadium opens. 

 

 

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