The Skins Can't Win With These Coaches

[Commander -JB-]

Replace “these coaches” with “Dan Snyder” & I’ll buy it!

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

First of all, if you guys aren't listening to Fred Smoot on the postgame show, you need to be.  He's fantastic.  I know everyone clings to Cooley's nuts but, IMO, Smoot is just as good in certain respects and certainly entertaining.

 

 

 

I listen to Smoot here and there.  I'll just say to each their own on him.  He never seems plugged in with any insider info but instead just flails about this or that.  He worships Gregg Williams like he's Zeus.  I like Gregg too but Smoot really goes nuts for him.  Like Portis he seems to talk at times about his tenure like it was their SB years even though they were losers when he was there, too.   He thinks Norman is terrible, he's been on that for a long time, that's his favorite scapegoat.

 

I find him entertaining in small doses but his stuff wears thin on me in large doses.  I like Portis a little but more if I had to choose between the two because he will get into some real football talk in the mix of his rap, X's and O's. 

 

I agree he can be entertaining partly because he's so wild about some of the stuff he throws out there.  But count me among the people who clings to Cooley's nuts over Smoot -- I think Cooley is by a mile better.  😀

9 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’d say goodbye to everybody on that list save MAYBE PRich.  I’d try and trade the ones where there is value.

 

I do wonder the hit of releasing Smith. 

 

I also wonder if Dan will let that happen.  They seem to be close...

 

 

 

 

[method man]

If Dan decides to let Bruce and Jay go after this season, I’d say the most likely combo to replace them is Kyle and KOC.

 

We see how good this team is at attracting external candidates - not good. Honestly, I’d say that combo is worth a shot if it means that they can get a high end DC to coach with KOC

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

There’s no guarantee Bruce would be asked back.  

 

 

Coming from the dude that initially thought Bruce was a goner for sure if they have a bad season, I am not as convinced anymore.   My guesses are purely based on insider types who granted are guessing, too but I just don't like what am hearing.  Keim said in the off season that it's hard to tell if Bruce would be on the ropes based on what he heard.  Russell said someone told him Bruce will always have a job there if he wants one.  Granted maybe that can be a reassignment.  The WP guys said they heard Bruce is safe now until the stadium is secured.  And Bruce said recently that they are a year away from any announcement on the stadium.  

 

9 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

T

There arE 32 NFL HC jobs.  Generally, if you’re offered one, you take it.  Coaches think they can fix anything.  Most will give it a shot.

 

 

My point isn't that no one would take the job here.  Of course they can attract someone.  But they are unlikely going to attract the hot candidates.  And I'd double down on that point if Bruce is still there.  And it's not some weird outlier position that I just have with no company on it.  Just about everyone who covers the team has recently said something similar which is the days of Dan attracting the hottest candidate in the market is likely over.  The sample size of Dan is much larger now than years back.  If for example Lincoln Riley decided to go to the NFL, it's almost laughable for example I think for him to think, yeah DC is where I'd like to go.

 

But I do think if Dan just overpays and goes bananas like the Raider contract for Jon Gruden he might overcome that.  I doubt he does it though.

 

9 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

T

Remember, the Vinny firing and Bruce hiring seemingly came out of nowhere.  The Gibbs hire was also out of nowhere.  

 

Dan is pretty good at keeping his intentions under wraps.  

 

 

  I agree he's good at keeping it quiet.  And my point isn't that there is no way Bruce isn't canned. But I think there is at least a decent shot he's back.  I didn't feel that way at the beginning of the year.   I think the best shot at getting Bruce to go is really a full collapse type of season and or really poor fan attendance that accompanies another firebruce movement.  Not another 7-9 season where he can worm his way with an if and buts were candy and nuts conversation.  

 

One key difference between this and Vinny years ago is the stadium.  The stadium arguably is the most important thing they need to get done to help save their flagging attendance aside from winning. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Biggest takeaway: The pressure will start to mount on defensive coordinator Greg Manusky. The Redskins nearly fired him after last season and, through two games, his group has allowed a combined 63 points and 911 yards. If things don't get better for his group, it's easy to wonder about his future in Washington. The Redskins do have a lot of youth on their defense and were missing two of their top three corners plus end Jonathan Allen Sunday. That matters. But as linebacker Jon Bostic said, "We'll never use that as an excuse... Everyone is in this league for a reason." The Redskins have not had a defense finish in the top 10 in yards or points allowed since 2009. The bottom line is too many plays have big gaps for offenses to run through -- and too many big plays are hit downfield. It's not always about scheme or the coaches. The players have failed, too. Just like on the right side of the offensive line where guard Brandon Scherff and tackle Morgan Moses have combined for four holding penalties this season. They need to play better, too. But the Redskins have no shot this season if the defense doesn't improve.

 

John Keim, ESPN Staff Writer15h ago

 

 

its amusing to see how others look at us.  Talking here that Daniel Jones should start with two easier games coming up

 

 

[Burgold]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

One key difference between this and Vinny years ago is the stadium.  The stadium arguably is the most important thing they need to get done to help save their flagging attendance aside from winning. 

I dunno. I think that's a pipe dream. You can build the most awesome, fan-friendly building ever made. Each chair can have massage attachments and come with free, unlimited beer. You can eliminate all seat obstruction and provide free zooms, every bell and whistle you can imagine. Hell, you can make the seats hover and be able to move to any height the fan desires or give it the ability to go into intangible, ghost mode and put every stadium seat on the field itself.

 

People still won't go if they don't believe in the team. Ultimately, the on field product is what sells the experience. I mean RFK was as bare bones as you can get. It was always sold out and always a great time.

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

Keep Dunbar, remove the rest.

 

He’s always hurt. 

[Burgold]

So, just for the sake of misery how do you aportion what we are seeing.  Off the top of my head:

 

It's the talent's fault. 23%

It's Bruce Allen's/the Front Office's fault 32%

It's the coaches fault 45%

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, Burgold said:

So, just for the sake of misery how do you aportion what we are seeing.  Off the top of my head:

 

It's the talent's fault. 23%

It's Bruce Allen's/the Front Office's fault 32%

It's the coaches fault 45%

 

100% Dan Snyder.  It all starts with him and **** rolls downhill.  

[TradeTheBeal!]

24 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I dunno. I think that's a pipe dream. You can build the most awesome, fan-friendly building ever made. Each chair can have massage attachments and come with free, unlimited beer. You can eliminate all seat obstruction and provide free zooms, every bell and whistle you can imagine. Hell, you can make the seats hover and be able to move to any height the fan desires or give it the ability to go into intangible, ghost mode and put every stadium seat on the field itself.

 

People still won't go if they don't believe in the team. Ultimately, the on field product is what sells the experience. I mean RFK was as bare bones as you can get. It was always sold out and always a great time.

 

If you’ve been to any other stadium in the league, I’m not sure how you can say that.  Hotels, restaurants, public transportation, etc....we’ve got nothing.  The Lions have been a dumpster fire for decades but Ford Field/downtown Detroit is fantastic and the home crowds show up more often than not.

 

FedEx is almost unique in how terrible it is.  The location is awful, the infrastructure around it is non-existent and beltway weekend traffic is reliably dreadful.  Probably the only thing close is the Niners new stadium...which everyone also hates.

[Llevron]

17 minutes ago, Burgold said:

So, just for the sake of misery how do you aportion what we are seeing.  Off the top of my head:

 

It's the talent's fault. 23%

It's Bruce Allen's/the Front Office's fault 32%

It's the coaches fault 45%

 

I feel like we have talent. I feel like we dont have a plan. So I go coaching. 

 

I want jay to develop the talent on the defensive side of the ball like he has been with the offense. When healthy this offense looks under talented compared to the defense but produces above that level anyway because of the plan in place to have them do so. The defense looks the exact opposite to me and I dont understand why that is, so I blame coaching. 

 

Simply put, if we can make these WRs look like the strength of the team why cant we do the same with these LBs and DL? It may not be as simple as that but right now in my mind it is. 

[dyst]

Jay is like Kirk Cousins. He will get you stats but won’t get you over the hump

[SemperFi Skins]

Pats will be winning another ring... the smart thing to do, assuming we go 0 - 4 or 0 - 5 would be to become sellers before the deadline. Challenge the Dolphins for the first overall pick or at least top 5. We have some great young talent to build around.  This post is not meant to be a negative, glass half empty thing... I just realize now more than ever that we are not coached well and it's not something that can be turned around this season assuming we fire most of them mid season or at the end. 

 

Give a new HC the young talent and an amazing draft coming with loads of picks... 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

If you’ve been to any other stadium in the league, I’m not sure how you can say that.  Hotels, restaurants, public transportation, etc....we’ve got nothing.  The Lions have been a dumpster fire for decades but Ford Field/downtown Detroit is fantastic and the home crowds show up more often than not.

 

FedEx is almost unique in how terrible it is.  The location is awful, the infrastructure around it is non-existent and beltway weekend traffic is reliably dreadful.  Probably the only thing close is the Niners new stadium...which everyone also hates.

 

I fly to give or take 2-3 games a year.  I used to go exclusively to Fedex but once I discovered other stadiums, I've done more on the road.  I've been to some of the newer stadiums like Dallas and Arizona and its night and day.

 

Lets take Arizona you got luxury hotels near by, you can walk to an outdoor mall with restaurant after restaurant (feet away from the stadium). Fed ex is light years behind the nicer stadiums.   Heck even some of the older stadiums like the Superdome at least have some character to it and are also in prime locations.

 

Fedex is a disaster.  I actually had a conversation with Lafemina once about it.  I talked about it on a thread at the time.  He agreed with me that you can soup up Fedex all you want but you still aren't going to fix the fan experience for fans enough.  They need to move out of there and get a new a stadium. He agreed.

 

 

48. FedEx Field, Landover, Md. (Redskins, 1997-2019)
One of the few stadiums that’s worse than the one it replaced. FedEx Field is a faceless generic blob plopped down between a bunch of highways somewhere in Maryland. It’s a terrible place.

[kingdaddy]

11 hours ago, volsmet said:

One question remains, are we worse at losing while trying to win than Miami is at winning while trying to lose. 

Good question. If I'm the Skins mgmt I shop the following players very hard:

1). Norman. Someone should need a corner if we eat some of the salary.....Get him out of here asap.

2). Vernon Davis: Great Redskin who will get little in a trade but a team like SD could really use him imo....New England possibly too.

3). Trent: Goes without saying, he'd get the best return 

4). Kerrigan: Has been a great Redskin but he deserves a shot with another team. He'd be a great addition for almost any team. Would be great to get a 2nd for him.

5). Ionaidis: If there's interest I'd listen to offers. We have depth on the D-line so why not listen?

6). Chris Thompson: No brainer to listen to offers for CT....

7). PRich: I'm sure we're stuck with him but I wonder if Seattle would have any interest? They're thin at receiver and know him.

8). Penn: Older LT who could help a team should any playoff caliber team need a veteran. 

The Skins aren't Super Bowl contenders and have a good young nucleus to start a rebuild. Grab as many picks as we can and build for 2020 and beyond. Get a new coach to establish an aggressive approach....Like I said in another post, grab an Andy Reid assistant and develop the next Mahomes in Haskins. This is a no-brainer.

[Skinarchy]

Mistakes Umm’ yea

 

biggest one, not trading Trent for a first plus! Ouch....this season is going to be a rebuild yr. shouldn’t shock anyone...

 

need to get haskins on the field now. Not because Kee_’ was bad. Haskins needs the work now

 

i would trade Kerrigan also...let him go to a place to win..we aren’t winning for 3 more years. You say no? Stop dreaming, we prob are heading into a new coaching staff 

next year. That’s one year adjustment right there. Year three for Hask’ is goal

 

So, get picks now, for the new coaches

 

 Dump the vets, move towards a future.

Miami type moves now 

 

enough of the 7 wins seasons...

 

 

[kingdaddy]

52 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I dunno. I think that's a pipe dream. You can build the most awesome, fan-friendly building ever made. Each chair can have massage attachments and come with free, unlimited beer. You can eliminate all seat obstruction and provide free zooms, every bell and whistle you can imagine. Hell, you can make the seats hover and be able to move to any height the fan desires or give it the ability to go into intangible, ghost mode and put every stadium seat on the field itself.

 

People still won't go if they don't believe in the team. Ultimately, the on field product is what sells the experience. I mean RFK was as bare bones as you can get. It was always sold out and always a great time.

You had me at free unlimited beer. Bruce must stay if this is in the future.

[Bantu]

2 hours ago, Probos said:

Oh,...yeah, the ole "these coaches" suck excuse.  Who knows,.....maybe they do -- I just think it's more complex than that.

 

Question -- What coaches in the last 20 years of the team have they "won" with?  

 

I was just about to ask this question. Marty was actually "winning" but got fired because Dan and Drasner weren't "having fun". Coaches left this organization in the offseason for LATERAL position moves!! Redskins non-football staff left in droves, as well. 

 

Blaming coaches is understandably easier, but no one succeeds in what is known around the league as the "reverse car wash". Pretty depressing.

[SemperFi Skins]

Throw the bank at Kirby Smart.... please!

[ThomasRoane]

52 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He’s always hurt. 

 

Or, was Dunny scared of being victimized by Cooper again?  Didn't Dunbar finish the Philly game?  

[ThomasRoane]

54 minutes ago, Burgold said:

So, just for the sake of misery how do you aportion what we are seeing.  Off the top of my head:

 

It's the talent's fault. 23%

It's Bruce Allen's/the Front Office's fault 32%

It's the coaches fault 45%

 

Really, the fault of the FO is their inability to attract or keep quality coaches.  I think they're definitely getting better at bringing in talent.  Sadly, I believe Kyle Smith and KOC will probably be gone next year  

[SemperFi Skins]

.

[Brokenstriker]

3 hours ago, Probos said:

Oh,...yeah, the ole "these coaches" suck excuse.  Who knows,.....maybe they do -- I just think it's more complex than that.

 

Question -- What coaches in the last 20 years of the team have they "won" with?  

not simple ... what coaches in the last 20 years coached well and had enough roster talent to take advantage of?  None.  Need good players ... but seem to have at least a few now and most are pretty good at at least one thing ... if only they can be put in positions to do that thing.  Can't get new good players really except for the draft.  Can get good coaches at any time.  One step at a time ... at this time the only option is to get better coaches.

[SemperFi Skins]

[Skinsinparadise]

It's like Sheehan read this thread, the irony is he covered this morning much of what we are talking about here.  Among his thoughts:

 

A.  This is considered a bottom feeder organization now.  It's not attractive for the top tier coaches

B.  He thinks if Bruce is gone it might make this place more attractive but he doesn't think by much because of Dan.

C.  He thinks its no secret that every coach who comes here leaves with a worse reputation than what he came with.

 

A fan called in who said he got into a conversation with Tony Wyllie yesterday.   The fan goes to him is there anything I can hope for as to things getting better, any chance Bruce can go?  Wyllie responded to him no chance that Bruce ever goes and he's here until he's in a coffin.  (Sort of a morbid way to put it but that's what the fan said).  Then Wyllie said if you want some hope, Haskins is the real deal, and they are learning from the RG3 situation and will treat him like kid gloves.  Or something like that.

 

Then Sheehan took off from that point saying he is hoping Bruce is vulnerable there but he could see how he isn't considering Dan really depends on him to be his voice all around town and at the owners meetings, etc.   He suggested Dan isn't comfortable socially and Bruce is a good crutch for him.