desertbeagle85

The Skins Can't Win With These Coaches

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Rick Snider has been let go so he did a DC sports all encompassing last WP column.  This is the Redskins part. 

 

https://beta.washingtonpost.com/express/2019/09/12/last-column-some-final-notes-dc-area-sports/

The Redskins have the worst luck. Jay Gruden’s not a bad coach. It’s just bad karma at Redskins Park. I don’t see it changing any time soon. Blame whomever you want, but aside from 1937-45 and 1971-91, this team hasn’t been that great, so why should things be different now?

The sad part is the team’s fan base has been fractured probably beyond repair. Sunday’s home game against Dallas will see more Cowboys followers than Redskins backers.

Interest has quickly faded the past few years. There’s probably not 30,000 home fans on a good day. Unless this team starts winning regularly again, the old days of the Redskins dominating the town are gone.

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7 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

Dan and Bruce stuck him with Hazlett, IMO too.

 

Maybe he hired Berry, then when that didn't work Dan and Bruce decided to cheapskate and hire a "Redskin" at the same time by promoting Manusky.

 

Nobody knows but that's the most believable theory considering the recent history of going cheap on anything possible.

I actually don’t think this is true.  

 

I think the coaching search process was a complete sham.  Bruce decoded  wanted Jay somewhere around October 2013 when it was decided they were going to move on from Shanahan. Somehow through agents and back channels they asked Jay if he wanted Haz as the DC before Jay was hired.  

 

Don't forget, Jay was once in Haslett’s staff. There is a relationship there and that’s fine.  Haz also was a HC, and I’m sure Jay trusted him.

 

The big mistake was passing on Phillips for Barry.  

 

Then if you remember when they promoted Manusky, Manusky was about choice 6. They waited on a couple guys who went elsewhere. I think a couple Cindy assistants and a former HC were all targeted. I would have to go back and read articles about who.  

 

The fact is Jay had a real chance to be bold in 2015 and hired the worst DC in the history of the league. 

 

Then when they’ve wanted to move in from Barry, they just haven’t been able to find somebody to take the job. 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Then when they’ve wanted to move in from Barry, they just haven’t been able to find somebody to take the job. 

 

 

Everything you said before this might be true or could even probably be true (definitely choosing Berry over Phillips which I raged about at the time) but the Redskins didn't get the coach they wanted, if they in fact did prefer another coach to Manusky, because they were CHEAP!

 

You can't seriously believe that nobody wanted to take over the defense of a team with an excellent offense that should have been in the playoffs 2 years in a row if it didn't have the worst DC in NFL history. We even had a GM at the time so presumably Allen wasn't going to be in the way.

 

If that was true, what you believe, then Dan should have fired them all, Bruce, Gruden, Scot, at the same time and started over in 2017.

 

 

 

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You will never convince me that Haz wasn’t at minimum ‘strongly’ suggested and pushed on Jay.  Jay happy to have his first HC gig and Haz being an old pal, went with it.  I recall it being common knowledge that Haz was the source of the leaks about Shanahan.  The team did him a solid by keeping him on and of course they didn’t have to pay him to not work.

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1 hour ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

It's probably not his decision. He complained about the defense last year too. Why would he say us and them if it was his moronic decision?

 

I hope he has the authority!! If not..say so. That would be BS if he couldn't manage his staff. I think Jay thinks he a goner anyway so he's being a good guy to Manusky. If he needs Bruce or Dan to tell him to change DC then he should quit IMHO

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41 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Rick Snider has been let go so he did a DC sports all encompassing last WP column.  This is the Redskins part. 

 

https://beta.washingtonpost.com/express/2019/09/12/last-column-some-final-notes-dc-area-sports/

The Redskins have the worst luck. Jay Gruden’s not a bad coach. It’s just bad karma at Redskins Park. I don’t see it changing any time soon. Blame whomever you want, but aside from 1937-45 and 1971-91, this team hasn’t been that great, so why should things be different now?

The sad part is the team’s fan base has been fractured probably beyond repair. Sunday’s home game against Dallas will see more Cowboys followers than Redskins backers.

Interest has quickly faded the past few years. There’s probably not 30,000 home fans on a good day. Unless this team starts winning regularly again, the old days of the Redskins dominating the town are gone.

This is all fine and good except he’s wrong about everything except the fact there will be 70k cowboy fans st fedex on Sunday.  

39 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

Everything you said before this might be true or could even probably be true (definitely choosing Berry over Phillips which I raged about at the time) but the Redskins didn't get the coach they wanted, if they in fact did prefer another coach to Manusky, because they were CHEAP!

 

You can't seriously believe that nobody wanted to take over the defense of a team with an excellent offense that should have been in the playoffs 2 years in a row if it didn't have the worst DC in NFL history. We even had a GM at the time so presumably Allen wasn't going to be in the way.

 

If that was true, what you believe, then Dan should have fired them all, Bruce, Gruden, Scot, at the same time and started over in 2017.

 

 

 

I should be more clear.  They couldn’t find somebody they wanted to take the job.  That person had to have connections to Tampa, most likely.  

 

Dan should have fired everybody after the collapse of the 2016 season and started over with a new GM.  There’s no question about that.  The Barry hire was, by itself, a fireable offense when it didn’t work.  The fact the team completely choked away 3 winnable games and the last abhorrent atrocity against the Giants to close the season should have been curtains on everybody.  

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I wonder what our second half scoring is, versus our opponents during Jay's tenure. I bet we are outscored by a large margin. Different players over time, and yet it seems like we always collapse after half time. I wonder why that is.

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9 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

This is all fine and good except he’s wrong about everything except the fact there will be 70k cowboy fans st fedex on Sunday.  

I should be more clear.  They couldn’t find somebody they wanted to take the job.  That person had to have connections to Tampa, most likely.  

 

Dan should have fired everybody after the collapse of the 2016 season and started over with a new GM.  There’s no question about that.  The Barry hire was, by itself, a fireable offense when it didn’t work.  The fact the team completely choked away 3 winnable games and the last abhorrent atrocity against the Giants to close the season should have been curtains on everybody.  

 

I know there was a Jay element to that statement but I know I am not moving people with Snider's take on Jay, what interested me is for a dude who covered the team for that long, he sees the situation as hopeless and that point isn't specific to just this regime.

 

  Back to the topic at hand here -- sub Jerry for Jay.  😀

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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I'm not in any way shocked considering the M.O. of this team is that if we're lucky enough to get any defense at all, it happens in the first half.  Sadly, it hasn't gotten any better over the years even with an infiltration of better talent.  So yeah, if Manusky is a Jay guy, he absolutely owns that.

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26 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'm not in any way shocked considering the M.O. of this team is that if we're lucky enough to get any defense at all, it happens in the first half.  Sadly, it hasn't gotten any better over the years even with an infiltration of better talent.  So yeah, if Manusky is a Jay guy, he absolutely owns that.

 

I put the first Wade Phillips snub on Jay and the hire of Barry but after that I wonder?  Not saying yes or no but there is some bizarreness about the Manusky stuff.   Throwing it all together.

 

A.  Some beat guys said Bruce-Dan were happy that Haz was kept when Jay arrived in part because of all the money saved if they let Haz go and that includes the assistants.  I got the impression that part of their appeal with Jay is that Jay was willing to go on that ride with Haz.  And I don't blame Jay here.  I'd do the same to get the job if that helped me do it.  Haz was kept after Shanny was fired.  Talk about giving the next HC candidate a big hint about what the FO wanted. 

 

B.  When Joe Barry was let go, there was talk that they wanted a big name D coordinator.  And I think Jay was key at pushing Barry out.  I saw Jay myself scream at Barry around the bench in a game against Dallas.  Finlay said that the reporters could hear Jay scream at Barry after if I recall the game in Arizona?  They took their time that off season to interview people to replace him.  They pursued multiple big names including Wade Phillips and were supposedly hot for Bradley but then after all of that they go in house with Manusky.    It might not be a coincidence that Manusky would be the cheapest option and you save on all those assistant coaches

 

C.  To add to the point above the players supposedly loved A. Pleasant and they needed a secondary coach and Jay and company supposedly liked Pleasant, too.  But supposedly they low balled Pleasant in the contract negotiations so he bolted in a lateral move to the Rams who paid him more.

 

D.  We got Dan it looked like involved this year chasing Gregg and Bowles.  Bruce saying later that they weren't interested in them to replace Manusky but just wanted to pick their brain. 🙄

 

E.  Sheehan today is saying he hears Jay is VERY frustrated with the coaching and performance of the defense.  Finlay saying he wouldn't be shocked if Manusky is seriously under the gun.

 

What does this all add up to?  I honestly got no idea.  But when you add it all together it does ring some like what Laconfora said that he heard about how things have changed under Bruce and that is for someone to come here you got to deal with the dysfunction AND you don't get overpaid for it like you did in the past -- now if anything they pay less than many other team.  So according to him they've gotten cheap.  Is it possible that Haz and now Manusky being here has something to do with that?

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

E.  Sheehan today is saying he hears Jay is VERY frustrated with the coaching and performance of the defense.  Finlay saying he wouldn't be shocked if Manusky is seriously under the gun.

 

 

Just think of ALL the draft capital Jay invested in the last 2 drafts on D when HE could have used those for OL and WR to HELP HIM...Ya..he has a right to be pissed. But again, all words..might as well stamp his feet and yell at the moon if he not going to do anything about it. Man up Jay....for once in your tenure here..Man up.

Edited by The Hangman- C_Hanburger
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3 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Just think of ALL the draft capital Jay invested in the last 2 drafts on D when HE could have used those for OL and WR to HELP HIM...Ya..he has a right to be pissed. But again, all words..might as well stamp his feet and yell at the moon if he not going to do anything about it. Man up Jay....for once in your tenure here..Man up.

 

From what some people are saying, Jay is manning up and has gotten feisty behind the scenes with the powers above so to speak.  Will see.  Several people who cover the team are saying you got an edgier (nothing to lose) version of Jay right now.

 

One more apt Seinfeld reference

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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8 hours ago, Stadium-Armory said:

I wonder what our second half scoring is, versus our opponents during Jay's tenure. I bet we are outscored by a large margin. Different players over time, and yet it seems like we always collapse after half time. I wonder why that is.

This is completely true.  It amazes me how flat, almost complacent these guys come out in second halves of games.  This is totally on coaching IMO.  It would be a great stat to ind out how many times we go in with a lead under Gruden and come out and lose in the second.

 

But if I think in retrospect there was a series of years there when the wheels seemed to come off in the 4th quarter.   But regardless of who the coach is, you have to have your guys ready.  You have to be pushing them the whole game.

 

  And I said in another post while part of me thinks DJax was stirring controversy when he said, and I am paraphrasing, "when there is a lead going into the half when I was on the Skins they they think they have the game won". I am sure not exactly like that because with the ongoing losing seasons you would imagine they would realize that this is not true.  But the one mainstay is the poor play in the second halves of games.   It is ridiculous.

 

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41 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

This is completely true.  It amazes me how flat, almost complacent these guys come out in second halves of games.  This is totally on coaching IMO.  It would be a great stat to ind out how many times we go in with a lead under Gruden and come out and lose in the second.

 

 

 

I agree its a problem.   But it surprises me how many don't recall it being a problem in the past, too.  I recall thread and post after post on the same stuff,  We've had some epic collapses.  I'd guess this team has been a bad 2nd half team since Norv.  I wondered if Shanny had issues on that, my memory is more foggy on that front, but looking it up, he had issues, too.

 

It's a weird thing about this team.  That's not an excuse.  But just mentioning it's a strange thing that has followed regimes.  Ditto losing prime time games.  Guys like John Keim like to say it's just a function of bad teams.  You lose.  And find ways to lose. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But it surprises me how many don't recall it being a problem in the past, too.  

Yeah but so what?  It’s part of the coach’s job to fix this.  This is one area where I just don’t see a lot of influence by Dan and Bruce.  

 

If you're good enough to score score in the first half and stop teams in the first half, then why are you so much worse in the second?  The players didn’t change at halftime, and I doubt Dan or Bruce is in the halftime locker room.

 

It’s an odd coincidence it’s recurring under multiple coaches.  But to me, this is on the coaches.  All of them.  Including Gibbs when he was here.  Each one is for a different reason.  Gibbs got conservative.  Zorn was an idiot.  Shanahan has Haz as a DC, who often was figured out.  Jay doesn’t adapt and adjust fast enough, and players come out complacent.   Each are somewhat different reason, but each of the coaches have to own it. 

 

Just because Gibbs had a problem with it doesn’t excuse Jay from also having an issue with it with an entirely different roster.  Hell, Jay has basically had full roster turnover minus like 5 players while he was here.

 

Its the coach’s responsibility to prepare the team.  Something Jay has failed at spectacularly in second halves for his entire tenure.

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18 hours ago, skins4eva said:

 

You can't make it up.  That's how awful our DC and our scheme are. 

 

Right. Wentz may be good, but that stat is more indicative of what a ****ty Defensive scheme he was against, not a call to put him in the HoF.

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14 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Rick Snider has been let go so he did a DC sports all encompassing last WP column.  This is the Redskins part. 

 

https://beta.washingtonpost.com/express/2019/09/12/last-column-some-final-notes-dc-area-sports/

The Redskins have the worst luck. Jay Gruden’s not a bad coach.

 

There is no luck with the 'Skins. Bad ownership, bad FO and yes... awful coaching all-around. I completely disagree with the assertion that Norval Gruden isn't a bad coach. He has the worst on-field body language of any coach I've ever seen, hangs on to his pet projects too long, refused to have a proper backup active for a RB coming off an ACL tear who had never made a single start, doubled-down on his idiocy by saying it was to fortify Special Teams (holy ****... he really wanted us to buy that foolishness), has lousy clock management, team constantly comes out of halftime flat, can't improvise with his play calling when the chips are down and continues to make zero adjustments from his initial game plans, even when things are taken away from him by the opposition. It's like he keeps thinking "Gee, whiz... if they just executed" rather than adapting.

 

Letting one of his own players disrespect him by twisting his nipples is indicative of how much respect he doesn't get, then sitting AP and wanting people to believe it was for an extra body on Special Teams... ? Please...

 

He's awful. He has to go and there is a 0% chance he's ever offered another HC gig.

Edited by ntotoro
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19 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

He's awful. He has to go and there is a 0% chance he's ever offered another HC gig.

 

 

Redskins:  where coaching careers go to die.:wacko: :ols:

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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree its a problem.   But it surprises me how many don't recall it being a problem in the past, too.  I recall thread and post after post on the same stuff,  We've had some epic collapses.  I'd guess this team has been a bad 2nd half team since Norv.  I wondered if Shanny had issues on that, my memory is more foggy on that front, but looking it up, he had issues, too.

 

It's a weird thing about this team.  That's not an excuse.  But just mentioning it's a strange thing that has followed regimes.  Ditto losing prime time games.  Guys like John Keim like to say it's just a function of bad teams.  You lose.  And find ways to lose. 

I can't disagree but seems what with other coaches, even Gibbs 2, if I remember correctly the complete fall happened in the 4th quarter.  With Shanny, you got the same flat performances coming into the 3rd quarter.  

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One thing I see opposing Coordinators seem to do over and over is find weak spots in this defense and go after them over and over.  It doesn't matter if they run the same play 10 times, if it works, it works.  Once the Eagles start running over and over to start the second half, there was no excuse not to at least try to adjust the front seven scheme to plug the hole in the absence of Allen, especially since you were now using rotation players on a full schedule.    Also, the whole rushing 3 guys on 3rd & longs over and over.  How many times did Manusky  need to watch Wentz have all day to throw before he figured, "hmm...this isn't working, maybe some pressure on him might be something else to try?"

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52 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

There is no luck with the 'Skins. Bad ownership, bad FO and yes... awful coaching all-around. I completely disagree with the assertion that Norval Gruden isn't a bad coach. He has the worst on-field body language of any coach I've ever seen, hangs on to his pet projects too long, refused to have a proper backup active for a RB coming off an ACL tear who had never made a single start, doubled-down on his idiocy by saying it was to fortify Special Teams (holy ****... he really wanted us to buy that foolishness), has lousy clock management, team constantly comes out of halftime flat, can't improvise with his play calling when the chips are down and continues to make zero adjustments from his initial game plans, even when things are taken away from him by the opposition. It's like he keeps thinking "Gee, whiz... if they just executed" rather than adapting.

 

Letting one of his own players disrespect him by twisting his nipples is indicative of how much respect he doesn't get, then sitting AP and wanting people to believe it was for an extra body on Special Teams... ? Please...

 

He's awful. He has to go and there is a 0% chance he's ever offered another HC gig.

 

I agree with almost all of this.  Gruden is not an NFL head coach.  We all have enough evidence to reach that conclusion.  The sooner he and his merry band of coaching idiots are gone, the better.  At best, he's an OC.  He has zero interest in the defense and seemingly no ability to make any kind of in game adjustments.  If he wants to call games, he should be in the box or better yet let an OC call plays from above.  Don't know how you can make adjustments calling plays from the field.  The fact that we are still running a 3-4 defense with our current personnel is simply mind blowing stupidity on every level.  My guess is that once we get absolutely embarrassed and blown out at home by the Cowboys, Gruden will be forced to let Manusky go.

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4 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

How many times did Manusky  need to watch Wentz have all day to throw before he figured, "hmm...this isn't working, maybe some pressure on him might be something else to try?"

 

Apparently at least 14 3rd downs. Because he never did on any of the 13 that they actually ran and passed.

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