The Skins Can't Win With These Coaches

[illone]

20 minutes ago, Bang said:

Jackson's comments are loud now.. but if we hit that deep ball to McLaurin in the 3rd qtr.. then what?
that play showed we hadn't quit. Beautiful design. (If anyone has th GIF..)

 

 

Agreed.  I think we win the game if Scary Terry catches that one and the djax article doesnt exist.  perhaps this thread doesnt exist either

[Bang]

SCARY TERRY!!!!

 

 

I LOVE IT!

 

 

~Bang

[justice98]

25 minutes ago, Bang said:

Jackson's comments are loud now.. but if we hit that deep ball to McLaurin in the 3rd qtr.. then what?
that play showed we hadn't quit. Beautiful design. (If anyone has th GIF..)
they fake the jet sweep to richardson and the safety bites HARD and chases him across the field and into the flat, leaving a whole side of the field open.
Just an overthrow.
that play... we were on the ropes, the momentum was all theirs, and if it hits... all of that changes. Just missed.

 

Offensively, i don't think we quit. Defensively, i don't think we quit. Defensively, i think we were mismanaged again. Offense didn't have many chances in the second half. And in the third, only held the ball for 3 minutes. Two holds went far in killing both drives.

 

~Bang

 

By my count, there's only 12 guys on the current roster that were even here when DJax was last here in 2016, not counting Trent Williams.  And 3 of 'em are the specialists (Sundberg, Hopkins, and Way).  Reed, Davis, Moses, Scherff, Kerrigan, Norman, Dunbar, Everett, and Ioaniddis.  Even a bunch of the coaches turned over.  

 

If he'd have made the argument he knows how the mental toughness of a Gruden coached team is gonna be, that'd be one thing.  

[illone]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd love Rex but supposedly he is only willing to come back for a HC job and has turned down D coordinator jobs.  I think the more likely in house replacement would be his brother. 

 

Rex needs to face reality, he is better as a DC than HC.  Kinda like Norv with offensive duties.

[Skin'emAlive]

Heres the thing: I completely understand what Gruden is trying to build here. He wants an up-tempo west coast style offense predicated on speed at the WR spot, quick reads by the qb, A dual threat TE, and 1 back that can run/block/catch out of the gun formation. This is the modern NFL now. This is also best suited to our strengths, as our OL has traditionally been a much better pass blocking team than a run blocking team since Shanahan left. The problem is that we are just not there yet. We cant run because our current tackles cant run block. Moses is particularly bad at it as he holds on every pull. Nor can we expect a 36 year old LT to be able to move much. That run game is going to be bad until we draft an elite OL level OL prospect next year and have a healthy 2-way TE that is an actual threat to catch an option route.

 

Our wr's consisted of 2 rookies , a second year mr. irrelevant coming off an injured 2018 season, and P Rich, with a backup level first year qb in Keenum.  Keenum was a missed throw away from putting up 440 yards and 4 tds in the first game against a top 10 level defense! That isnt bad at all! Get the passing game rolling this year, and get the young wr's and Haskins comfortable with the sets. Then rebuild the OL by next year. Our run game will come. once we get better talent on the line.

 

Im all for Rex Ryan to be defensive coordinator. Always have been. But he wants the headcoaching job. Maybe his brother can convince him to join us... One can dream.

[CjSuAvE22]

If snyder is serious about winning he needs to relinquish full countrol to a gm fire bruce and the current coaching staff...if he wants he can use someone in house but the person has to know football and nfl rules let him hire the next coach and they will both need to work together on drafting and signing players...this is the only way to be competitive in this league otherwise it wont matter whom we hire at coach at best we will be mediocre

[Veryoldschool]

I like Gruden and think he is a decent coach and the most effective during the Snyder era after Joe Gibbs, a great coach.  So while I understand the frustration people feel with the team and with Gruden, I am okay with Gruden and want to see him continue beyond this season.  I blame the owner and the FO for grossly mismanaging this franchise for 20 years.  The Eagles game was a reminder of the stupid choices this team makes, the Skins got beat by DeSean Jackson who Snyder/Allen let slip away along with Garcon in favor of Doctson and Pryor.

 

In 2015 and 2016 the Redskins had one of the most prolific passing attacks in the League and they let their best receivers leave rather than resign them in 2016.  They also let the best quarterback the team had in the last 30 years walk too.  What other FO in the NFL would be so stupid?

 

Snyder is willing to reach and overpay for another teams players but is unappreciative of his own best players.  I view this as an ownership problem, not a coaching problem.  Gruden may well have far greater success with a better franchise someday because I think if a coach is able to buck the trend and achieve mediocrity with the Redskins he is capable of doing better with a competent FO with another franchise.

[volsmet]

6 hours ago, Rogue Jedi said:

Jay meanwhile lets DJax twist his nipples.

 

Admittedly, that does sound sublime.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

Snyder is willing to reach and overpay for another teams players but is unappreciative of his own best players.  I view this as an ownership problem, not a coaching problem.  Gruden may well have far greater success with a better franchise someday because I think if a coach is able to buck the trend and achieve mediocrity with the Redskins he is capable of doing better with a competent FO with another franchise.

Please name me the player we have overpaid for since Albert Haynesworth in 2009. I'll wait. 

 

Since Bruce took over, we have signed the following "big name" FAs:

 

1. McNabb.  This was a disaster in 2010.  Which is 9 years ago. (Ok, this was a trade.  But it was a big name splash.)

2. Do you count Garcon?  If so, that worked out pretty well.

3. Do you count DJax?  If so, that worked out pretty well.

4. Norman.  Ok, he's over paid. 

5. Landon Collins.  Jury's still out. Big contract, but you can't judge on 1 game in any direction.  

6. Do you count Richardson?  Maybe?  But that really wasn't that big a contract. And he wasn't a big name.  In fact, I'd hazard to guess 75% of posters on this board didn't know who he was until he was signed.  

 

There is one draft pick I think most folks wanted to keep around who wasn't, and that was Crowder.  Otherwise, who are we screaming to keep around who left? Matt Jones?  Preston Smith?  Not really.

 

Look, you can fault the FO for 1,835,873 things.  They botch things left, right and center.  But this narrative of "Snyder overpays" hasn't been true in 10 years.  The issue now is the team DOESN'T actually pay ANYBODY.  They don't pay to keep their own guys (see, Garcon, DJax and Crowder), and they don't pay to bring in guys.  See - everybody not here.  

 

It's like a portion of the fan base saw the spending spree in 2000 (and yes, it was 2000, 19 years ago, when they brought in Bruce Smith, Deon, etc. and after 20 years, they STILL think that's the way things run.  It's like the last 10 years of not spending for anybody ever and nickle and diming everybody just never happened.  

 

And while we are on the topic of false narratives from long ago, do you know how many coaches Dan has fired in owning the team for 20 years?  Norv (which needed to happen).  Marty. Zorn.  Shanahan.  Spurrier quit.  Gibbs retired (again).  Jay's on year 6.  The biggest mistake was firing Marty for Spurrier.  How many coaches has Snyder fired this decade?  1. Shanahan.  That's it. Again, the "Snyder runs through coaches like poop through a goose" thing used to be true.  He went through Norv, Marty and Spurrier in 4 years.  But it hasn't been true in a long, long time.   

 

Snyder is a HORRENDOUS owner.  And Bruce is probably the worst football exec in the sport.  

But can we PLEASE try and at least stick with reality and blame them for things they do wrong, and not regurgitating washington post headlines from 2004? things that were true 20 years ago, but haven't been true in 10 years? 

[NoCalMike]

Something just seems off with Gruden's offense.  Not that it isn't designed effectively but there always seems to be a lack of tempo.  Did everyone watch the Raiders last night, coached by the other Gruden?  All we've heard about from there was all the AB drama, how it would be a huge distraction that would leak into the regular season.

 

Well they came out of the gate looking focused, angry, and the offense looks FAST.  It was like a totally different speed.  Not just Tyrell Williams, but just how quickly plays were run, ball snapped, QB drop back, ball out so quick.  

 

When is the last time the offense on this team had that aggressive deliberate pace to it?

[redskinss]

19 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

There is one draft pick I think most folks wanted to keep around who wasn't, and that was Crowder.  Otherwise, who are we screaming to keep around who left? Matt Jones?  Preston Smith?  Not really.

There is one person missing from this list that is more than just a tiny oversight especially considering who you were responding to.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

13 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

When is the last time the offense on this team had that aggressive deliberate pace to it?

The 2012 offense was pretty good at that, as was the 2016 offense.  

 

I didn't have a problem with the tempo in Philly.  I do have a problem with their run scheme, which doesn't mesh with their pass scheme.  

1 minute ago, redskinss said:

There is one person missing from this list that is more than just a tiny oversight especially considering who you were responding to.

 

I don't know Veryoldschool's posting history that well, but I've got a guess.  

 

If you're talking about Cousins, that's a different situation altogether.  One which Bruce screwed up by using the tags.  Again, you can bash the FO for a million things, the handling of the entire Cousins contract negotiation is one of them.  

 

But I firmly believe that was more Bruce than Dan.  Where they made their mistake was not signing him after the 2015 season long term.  The minute they put the tag on him, there was no reasonable chance he comes back, because you have to agree to a minimum top-5 contract over several years.  Or do what the Vikings did and fully guarentee the contract.  Cousins is not worth $28 million/year.  Bruce got him that by putting the tag on him multiple times.  Because he's a short sighted fool.  

[SkinsFTW]

Then in typical Redskins fashion he did what many predicted he'd do by trading for and then overpaying average Alex Smith who then naturally broke a leg and was never seen on the field again.

 

True, Cousins isn't worth 28M but I'd have quickly paid him 20 before throwing that and more at 34year old journeyman Alex Smith who couldn't even win a playoff game under Andy Reid on a team a tier or 2 above ours.

 

But we were so close...

 

 

[dyst]

8 hours ago, illone said:

 

 

Agreed.  I think we win the game if Scary Terry catches that one and the djax article doesnt exist.  perhaps this thread doesnt exist either

We win every game and go undefeated if we just win the game.

 

I get what you are saying about the missed bomb to McLarurin but ultimately we didn't hit it, but a bunch of other woulda coulda shoulda’s in the 2nd half that we are so accustomed to seeing which leads us to lose games.

[SkinsFTW]

Hey bro, if Danny and Bruce are allowed to perpetuate an alternate reality where "we're close" then you can't hold it against fans for occasionally believing in similar fairy tales.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Snyder is a HORRENDOUS owner.  And Bruce is probably the worst football exec in the sport.  

But can we PLEASE try and at least stick with reality and blame them for things they do wrong, and not regurgitating washington post headlines from 2004? things that were true 20 years ago, but haven't been true in 10 years? 

 

Agree.  They've gone to overpaying to arguably the other side of the pendulum which is underpaying.    Yes there is some upside to that in that you don't get hefty contract FA busts.  Instead we major now in mostly cheapish FA busts.  The larger point is according to some they get outbid for personnel and coaching talent and are known to be cheapish.   That's a change from the past.  And I gather that's Bruce's stamp. 

 

Part of my point of why you need Bruce out the door before hiring the next coach isn't purely centered on him not being hot as his job but also about him being cheap and nepotism driven.  And with the stadium supposedly a year away -- alas I think the odds that Bruce has his finger prints on the next HC is pretty good.   

 

That's why I keep saying for those who want a new coach it almost has to be O'Connell or bust.  The reason being O'Connell as a first time HC I bet will be relatively cheap (which Bruce would like) and since he's in house -- Bruce is less likely to be threatened by him and he might even think O'Connell would feel indebted to them.   Otherwise, I think the odds that they lure any sexy top HC candidate is about as likely as Dan doing a fan Q & A with us on Extremeskins. 

 

On another note, listening to Russell tonight, I think you might finally get the head to head blow up with Jay and the FO that you've been clamoring for.  Forget the Peterson thing.  That sounds like it's not like the heart of the matter but instead its macro driven.  But will see.  Here and there some beat guys have been hinting this off season that Jay has had it and is in the WTF mode this season where he feels he has nothing to lose.  Will see. 

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

Fella's I'd like to introduce you to the Washington Redskins 2020 Head Coach

 

 His name is Coach Sarduchi , he has spent the past 11 season as the Detroit Lions Equipment manager / Kickers coach . Bruce Allen and Doug Williams assure me he is the FUTURE and the FUTURE IS NOW !

 

[TheShredder]

John Gruden's Dumber brother is a loser.  He's not an NFL HC.  Has no control over much of anything and cannot institute any change in a downward spiral franchise.  So many reasons to list but it doesn't matter.  Better off going with O'Connell now.  And Manusky is horrible.  The Redskins franchise is now a joke.  It is what it is.  

[Veryoldschool]

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

4. Norman.  Ok, he's overpaid. 

 

 

He was who I was thinking about Snyder charged in and won a bidding war for his services and I've never been that impressed with Norman.  He doesn't stink but every time I see him getting beat because he is watching the QB instead of his man I think why did the Skins make him the highest-paid cornerback?  They spend like drunken sailors for Norman and are willing to give Cousins a decent contract after the 2015 season and low ball him again after 2016 and lose their chance to secure him.

 

I see letting Jackson and Cousins go as part of a pattern of neglecting who has proven themselves playing for the Redskins and being over-enthused about talent on other teams.  

[megared]

5 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

I see letting Jackson and Cousins go as part of a pattern of neglecting who has proven themselves playing for the Redskins and being over-enthused about talent on other teams.  

 

Hoping I don't see Collins fitting that narrative in 2-3 years.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

He was who I was thinking about Snyder charged in and won a bidding war for his services and I've never been that impressed with Norman.  He doesn't stink but every time I see him getting beat because he is watching the QB instead of his man I think why did the Skins make him the highest-paid cornerback?  They spend like drunken sailors for Norman and are willing to give Cousins a decent contract after the 2015 season and low ball him again after 2016 and lose their chance to secure him.

 

I see letting Jackson and Cousins go as part of a pattern of neglecting who has proven themselves playing for the Redskins and being over-enthused about talent on other teams.  

Norman was coming g off of a pro bowl year, was young, and at a position of need.  And was unexpected available.

 

Heres the thing with letting both Cousins and DJax, and for that matter Garcon, walk.  They didn’t replace them with anybody.  Except Smith for Cousins, and they paid 8 million per year less for Smith than the Vikings paid for Cousins.  

 

All those moves were not to sign guys from other teams.  It was because Bruce doesn’t want to spend money on anybody.  

 

The only aberration in 10 years is Norman. Who was a special circumstance. 

 

I would submit they haven't done nearly enough in FA the last 5 years.   

 

But if you want to regurgitate the Washington post mantra from 2004, that’s fine.  Just know it’s actually factually incorrect now.  

[Veryoldschool]

 

 

 

 

40 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

But if you want to regurgitate the Washington post mantra from 2004, that’s fine.  Just know it’s actually factually incorrect now.  

 

I don't read the Washington Compost.  I developed my critical attitude of Snyder's management without the aid of the Compost.

[megared]

53 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Norman was coming g off of a pro bowl year, was young, and at a position of need.  And was unexpected available.

 

Heres the thing with letting both Cousins and DJax, and for that matter Garcon, walk.  They didn’t replace them with anybody.  

 

Terrelle Pryor?  Remember we didn't want to pay the $10+ M/ year that Tampa ended up paying him.  So for a difference of ~$2 M in 2017, we got 20 catches, 240 yards, 1 TD instead of 56 catches, 1005 yards, 4 TDs.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 hours ago, megared said:

 

Terrelle Pryor?  Remember we didn't want to pay the $10+ M/ year that Tampa ended up paying him.  So for a difference of ~$2 M in 2017, we got 20 catches, 240 yards, 1 TD instead of 56 catches, 1005 yards, 4 TDs.  

If you remember, Pryor was never intended to start.  He was brought in as insurance for Doctson and practiced as a backup.  

 

It drove be crazy because the answer was actually to basically start Ryan Grant.  Who is physically limited.  

[RFK Lives]

13 hours ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Fella's I'd like to introduce you to the Washington Redskins 2020 Head Coach

 

 His name is Coach Sarduchi , he has spent the past 11 season as the Detroit Lions Equipment manager / Kickers coach . Bruce Allen and Doug Williams assure me he is the FUTURE and the FUTURE IS NOW !

 

 

They know how to PICK a winner!  Hey-oh!