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Cutdown Thread and Modified 53. Tanner Vallejo added, Roster full (I think for real this time?)


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4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’m actually andantes of the 3-4....  IF coached and implemented correctly. 

 

Haz was clueless.  Barry was, somehow, worse.

 

Manusky, we’ll see. 

 

The biggest issue with the 3-4 we’ve had is until now, we haven’t had a true NT and the coaches have been “meh” at best at coaching it.

 

With current personnel, they should be fine.

 

I was just pointing out having 6 DL players is more common if you’re playing a 4-3.

 

 

 

 

IMO for the most part any purist form of "3-4" and "4-3" are a little archaic nowadays in the NFL. Yeah you're going to have a general base defense that you need the right guys for, but so many teams play tons of different packages that most aren't even in their "base" formation all that often. As was noted earlier, we were only in our base on 28% of snaps. We seem to play plenty of 1 gap 3-4 Under or 4-2 looks among others, where we do have 4 down linemen...usually it's in nickel situations IIRC (which is a ton of snaps nowadays since the NFL is such a passing league). 

Edited by mistertim
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3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Of the guys we've released in recent years, Doctson to me might be one of the bigger wildcards.  It wouldn't shock me if he emerges as a decent albeit not great receiver.  It wouldn't shock me if he busts.  A receiver who has 500 yards plus for 2 seasons in a row IMO is no #1 receiver, arguably not a #2 either.  But those are decent numbers for a #3.  

 

 

 

The problem with Doctson is that he is old. Most future elite receivers in the NFL leave college when they are sophomores or juniors. Doctson spent 5 years in college. If he had left college when he was a sophomore or junior, he would have been drafted very late (or not at all). However, he stayed a long time, was able to rack up stats as a 22/23 year old against 18 year old defenders, and we took the bait.

 

He's not going to blossom after leaving here because he's already 26. He'll be 27 by the end of this season. He's half a year older than Jamison Crowder, who has been in the NFL 2 years longer than him. He's been in his athletic prime for the last 2-3 years and will begin to slope downward in a year or two. There's not much precedent for a receiver who showed very little until he was 26 and then suddenly had a fantastic career.

 

As for Kirk, one more factor I am looking forward to seeing is the Kubiak effect. Kubiak is a hell of an offensive mind, built a lot of his success in the Shanahan bootleg WCO style of offense that I think fits Kirk perfectly, and is now purely an offensive assistant rather than a full on head coach.

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1 hour ago, ncr2h said:

 

The problem with Doctson is that he is old. Most future elite receivers in the NFL leave college when they are sophomores or juniors. Doctson spent 5 years in college. If he had left college when he was a sophomore or junior, he would have been drafted very late (or not at all). However, he stayed a long time, was able to rack up stats as a 22/23 year old against 18 year old defenders, and we took the bait.

 

He's not going to blossom after leaving here because he's already 26. He'll be 27 by the end of this season. He's half a year older than Jamison Crowder, who has been in the NFL 2 years longer than him. He's been in his athletic prime for the last 2-3 years and will begin to slope downward in a year or two. There's not much precedent for a receiver who showed very little until he was 26 and then suddenly had a fantastic career.

 

As for Kirk, one more factor I am looking forward to seeing is the Kubiak effect. Kubiak is a hell of an offensive mind, built a lot of his success in the Shanahan bootleg WCO style of offense that I think fits Kirk perfectly, and is now purely an offensive assistant rather than a full on head coach.

 

If you go through Doctson's stats, he has had glimpses.   As I noticed some Viking fans are already saying on twitter, a dude with two 500 plus yard seasons in a row isn't a bust.  Those stats are decent for a #3.  If you go through his PFF stats, he was good to very good as a short-intermediate threat but a disaster with the long ball.   We used him as a deep threat a bunch last year because when Richardson went down we had no one else to really do it.   We look at Doctson through the prism of being a first rounder and that he disappointed on that front.  And I agree. 

 

I was saying on the draft thread this off season that the lesson learned for me as for Doctson is to study the player's personality or whatever glimpses I can watch or read about it to get an idea.  I liked Doctson's highlights and stats but I had zero idea about the personality of the dude.  And according to some who cover this team they were told the FO-coaches issue with Doctson is that he isn't a dog.  He supposedly doesn't practice or play with passion.  So this last draft season in particular, I watched any interview I can find of some of the prospects I liked and among them ironically was Terry McLaurin.  McLaurin struck me among others as a dude who really has his stuff together.  He comes off smart and ambitious.  I think has the intangibles that Doctson might be missing.  

 

Having said that some in the Redskins FO (according to Finlay, Hoffman among others) believe that Doctson needs a new start and has the ability to play in this league.    I am not swearing by Doctson at this point in his career.  27 isn't old for a receiver.  If he wants to take it up a notch this season, he has the potential to do it.  He's catch % improved last year.  He developed as a blocker.  I don't think he is a lost cause.  But like in any profession, you got to want it to be successful.  And as one beat guy said they heard from someone in the FO -- they aren't sure Doctson loves football.  So I am agnostic right now about Doctson.  I don't see him as a lost cause or likely success.  I don't know. 

 

As for Kirk.  He put up monster numbers.  Some seem to play down numbers like they are meaningless as if any Joe can put up a 70% completion rate, 4000 yard, and sick TD-INT ratio passers.  But that's ridiculous.   But his critics do IMO have something legitimate on Kirk as to him playing small in critical games that matter.  He faded in the home stretch.  And that's the hump he needs to get over.  Does he pull that off?  I got no idea.  But even if I were a critic of the dude I wouldn't dance on his grave just yet -- especially when we are going to face him head to head.  I'd let it all unfold.   Heck I wasn't in love with Alex's play last season but I said at that time he deserves another year in the system -- he wasn't that hot in his first year with the Chiefs either but he played better the longer he was in their system, etc.   Now if Alex returned and put up pedestrian numbers again, then I think I'd feel comfortable saying the dude isn't the answer -- but alas it looks like he won't get that chance.  

 

We got the highest paid offense period in the league, including QB, which is really pathetic considering our offense ranked 28th last season.  So I think we have a lot to prove on offense.  I am in the camp that if you have no QB you got no chance.  So to me it's all about Haskins.  Keenum I think is just a guy.  Colt, too.  Back to Doctson, I think he's been mostly also just a guy.  But by that i mean so so and not a bust.  Can Minny get more out of him?  Maybe.  It seems like some in the FO think Doctson's best years will be elsewhere.  Will see. 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Just now, justice98 said:

I dont know how they managed to not find a left guard amongst the cuts around the league better than the two guys they have.

 

I think OL is a distinct possibility if we see a complete debacle from the OL week 1.

 

For now, they seem to be showing an excessive degree of faith/loyalty in what we have.

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1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

I think OL is a distinct possibility if we see a complete debacle from the OL week 1.

 

For now, they seem to be showing an excessive degree of faith/loyalty in what we have.

 

Which is a terrifying thought if they've watched any of the pre-season. You have to really suck as an OL for me to notice you, and I noticed the **** out of him. Really curious to know who's call it is to not only keep Flowers on the roster, but to make him a starter. I assume jay has the final call, but Callahan must be in his ear, so I hope to god that there's more to this than what seems obvious to the average fan.

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23 hours ago, ncr2h said:

 

The problem with Doctson is that he is old. Most future elite receivers in the NFL leave college when they are sophomores or juniors. Doctson spent 5 years in college. If he had left college when he was a sophomore or junior, he would have been drafted very late (or not at all). However, he stayed a long time, was able to rack up stats as a 22/23 year old against 18 year old defenders, and we took the bait.

 

He's not going to blossom after leaving here because he's already 26. He'll be 27 by the end of this season. He's half a year older than Jamison Crowder, who has been in the NFL 2 years longer than him. He's been in his athletic prime for the last 2-3 years and will begin to slope downward in a year or two. There's not much precedent for a receiver who showed very little until he was 26 and then suddenly had a fantastic career.

 

As for Kirk, one more factor I am looking forward to seeing is the Kubiak effect. Kubiak is a hell of an offensive mind, built a lot of his success in the Shanahan bootleg WCO style of offense that I think fits Kirk perfectly, and is now purely an offensive assistant rather than a full on head coach.

Kirk played under Sean McVay.  We’ve seen his ceiling.

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