SkinsGuy

PRESEASON GAMEDAY THREAD: REDSKINS VS. FALCONS

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4 hours ago, goskins10 said:

- It was clear they were working on the run game - something they have needed to do desperately for a long time. And they got Guice a lot of great work. More on that later.

I agree.  However, they ALSO need to work on the passing game since they are going to have a new starting QB, the WRs combined have played like 10 minutes of football, and the OL is suspect.  

 

But it was clear as day they wanted to come out and run the ball, it was clear Jay wanted to get Perine some good looks.

 

I just don't love the "concede that we can't pass the ball so we're going to have to run a lot, play conservative and win ugly" mentality.  I'd like for them at least to TRY to put up points through the passing game before deciding they can't do it.  

 

4 hours ago, goskins10 said:

- Oline was what I expected - Ok at times but gets blown up on key pass plays. However, they actually held together a little better than i thought. Case helped them a few times but then he hurt them too. That fumble/int was just a poor decision. Having said that, it was nice to see someone fighting for plays - more on that shortly.. Flowers is an enigma. He can look amazing one play and like total **** the next. It is early fro him as a LG. He has the physical ability. Having said that, Martin looked pretty good - albeit against the 2s and 3s. They will star slow but could grow into a decent unit by mid to late season. 

What I saw is if the defense knew it was a pass, there was almost immediate pressure.  If they didn't, it was better.  I think they run-blocked better than pass-blocked.

 

4 hours ago, goskins10 said:

- QBs - ...

I really wanted to see Haskins get a few series with the starters against the starters.  But he didn't.  That was dissapointing.  They have already decided who the starting QB is, and they're going to roll with Case.  Ok.  That means you've got to win and be competitive. 

 

4 hours ago, goskins10 said:

RBs - Guice is the real deal. He looked very good. He made some very nice reads and cuts. He is shiftier real time than it appears on video. He did make a few mistakes but he is still in fact a rookie. Glad to see him get a catch too. I think that is an underrated part of his game. They did not throw to him a lot in college but it's because they did not need to. When they did (for example the 2018 Citrus Bowl where he caught 2 TD passes) he was effective. Good first outing for him.  

I REALLY thought on the play where Sherff pulled he was going to have a hole between Sherff on the inside and the other blocker on the outside, but I think he rushed it a bit and went outside.  That's the difference between a guy like AP and Guide right now.  I think AP sets that up and it's a 30 yard gain, Guice isn't there yet.  That's fine.  He's still a great talent playing in his second preseason game.  The talent is clearly there.  Some good film for him to look at.  

 

 

4 hours ago, goskins10 said:

Perine - Looked the best I have seen him but against the 2s/3s. But he showed some vision, broke some tackles and overall had one of his best outings as a Redskin. Still not sure he makes the 53. This may have been a way to develop trade capitol? Or maybe he makes the team but he will be buried in the depth chart. But good outing for him. 

Perine is Rob Kelly, and all of the other average backs Jay falls in love with.  (I can't even think of them anymore) Try hard, but not as talented as other backs.  

 

He was fine.  He should not make the team.  But he probably will.  

 

4 hours ago, goskins10 said:

Thompson - Well he was Chris Thomopson. He just is so much faster than everyone else. They need to give Jimmy Moreland a new number. I kept thinking Thompson wsa on D and then I thought I saw Moreland on Off. Same number!  LOL

This was on the Redskins Talk Pod this morning.  Moreland is definitely getting a new number after cuts.  

 

4 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

TEs - That hit on Reed was straight out dirty. Keano Neal should miss game time for that garbage. If Reed has a concussion, he should retire immediately. It's still just a game. He needs to protect himself. I hope he is healthy. In terms of football - he looked OK. He let a sure 1st down from Keenum go right through his hands though. I am much more interested in his health though. Hope he is OK. garbage cheap shot by Neal. 

He had a concussion.  I don't think he will retire.  But I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him miss 8 games.  

 

On the past he dropped, it looked like a real mis-communication.  Reed sat down, and Keenum thought he was going to keep going, and threw it in front of him. He should have still caught it, but i don't think he was expecting the ball where it was.  

 

4 hours ago, goskins10 said:

Dline - Good but not as good as i had hoped. But Matt Ryan is a very good QB. I had hoped they would get to him more often. They started slow and did not get much pressure. However, Atl came out throwing the ball all over. In then end they made the plays to stop them. After that first drive, they tightened up. Still I was hoping to see at least a few sacks. And they let Ryan out a few times to run for yards. They need to clean that up. All in all not bad but not as dominating as i had hoped to see - like they were against Cinn. But it's just preseason. They were mostly just rushing 4 with a trailer from time to time. 

Maybe you could tell form being there, I don't think I saw the defense use 1 pressure.  Maybe a blitz snuck in there, but I didn't catch it.  You have to think if this was "live" then the D mixes some things up.  Just a guess. Maybe not.  

 

4 hours ago, goskins10 said:

LBs - Sweat was the real deal. He looked great. Kerrigan did his thing. The ILBs were OK. Nothing special but nothing really bad either - yes you may be able to pick a play or two but overall they did Ok but nothing special at all. Although, Bostic was in on some nice plays. So there is hope for this unit that I expected to be the weakest and they were. 

Again, everything they ran looked really basic.  I don't know if that's going to be the case in the regular season, but I think (hope?) Manusky gets more aggressive and brings more pressures.  

 

4 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

oaching - now this is where many of you will disagree - but I do not care. Agian, it's clear they came in wanting to work on the run game. And they did work on it and it looked pretty good. Got Guice lot's of work. Yea, the last 43 seconds of the 1st half were annoying as hell. That was at least some on Keenum. But overall the play calling was decent despite what some of you have said. They were moving the ball. We are still stalling in the RZ. 1st and goal at the 1 and get a Fg is annoying. Also, the penalties were way down. I did not see the final count but there were very few in the 3 Qs I saw. 

I don't care about play-calling in the pre-season.  

 

I do very much care about play-calling in the regular season. 

 

There's no excuse NOT to call the TO after the completion to CT with 37 seconds left, though, even in the pre-season.  The next snap came at 17 seconds.  Unless you just let the clock roll all the way down and you go into the half.  That was bad clock management any which way you cut it.  It doesn't matter, except that's been a bugaboo for 5 years.  So we as fans who understand this stuff a little bit are looking for improvement, and we didn't see it there. 

 

4 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

I would have liked to see him be more aggressive with Haskins but I get they are letting him work in slowly. I think that's a good plan. Those calling him chicken and a coward for playing Case - get over it. It's the right move to really develop Haskins. He is just not ready. Let him get some more snaps and watch a few regular season games. It will not hurt him. 

It was clear as mud getting Haskins throws was less important than getting Perine carries.  Jay said as much earlier this week in a presser, that they owed it to Perine to get him better looks and they needed to work on the run game.  Also, they have made up their mind on QB, so what they did with Haskins is immaterial at this point.  

 

Case is going to start.  If he struggles, and Colt is healthy, Colt will play.  If Colt isn't healthy, they'll stay with Case and try and run the ball more.  When they are out of the playoff race, Haskins will get an opportunity.  Right/wrong/indifferent, that's the plan. Nobody has said as much, but it's clear through all of their actions.   

 

4 hours ago, goskins10 said:

One last thing - people have been trashing Jay for not playing many starters. Look around the NFL, that is the new approach by most all teams. The 1s are getting less and less playing time in gms 1 and 2. All teams are trying to protect from losing guys in preseason. I don;t blame them. Would I like to see the starters play more? Of course. But I get the reluctance. 

I don't really care what they do as long as they are prepared for week 1.  The scenario where I think more playing time is beneficial is with new QB or new Coach.  

 

Cooley pointed out that if you're offense hasn't worked together, and is out of sync, does it really matter if it's healthy?  

 

Again, I'm not going to kill Gruden about anything in the pre-season.  If they come out and get blasted and can't move the ball, we will have to have a serious conversation about why...

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10 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

No you are just unreasonable.

 

I can be patient with two new QBs as they get acclimated to the team.

 

But I guess you expect them to be Tom Brady right now and score 35 points a half.

 

Its not kool-aid I'm drinking, but you seem to enjoying the lemon juice. :)

Hahah, yeah, you love to see an either/or fallacy from desperate fans. Its either they are Tom Brady, or they are terrible, theres no option for them to be mediocre, or above average.  "They scored 6 points, what more do you want from them!!!!! You MONSTER!!!!"

10 hours ago, NeverSurrender said:

"I think we all know a good football team when we see one"  If someone could link this thread maybe you will understand. 

 

Im a new fan?  ok? Im no old head but I have been die-hard since 1991.  

 

The Pats scored 10 points last night. Keenum threw for more yards then Brady did.  Now im thinking your just a Troll.  

Hahahaha, so you mean the Patriots starters beat the Panthers starters and that might mean....the Patriots are better than the Panthers, and that proves your point.......?????  Probably didnt think that one through 😂

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

Let's take each mistake and extrapolate that into an entire season, mistakes made during - wait for it - a preseason game AND 20 YEARS OF FAILURE when you should be making mistakes. LOL There is a new not new VETERAN QB that never played for us before. A basically HALL OF FAMER and a rookie RB. A patchwork Oline DUE TO THE TEAMS OWN FAILURES. And BTW the Falcons are 4th in D this year  in preseason AFTER PLAYING 4 OF THE WORST OFFENSES IN THE NFL LAST YEAR since IM PRETENDING AND MAKING UP THAT preseason means so much to you. And during the first half, the team ran for 4.6 yds/carry WHICH I THINK IS AMAZING. Not steller but definitely better than 3.9 which is actually also not horrible EXCEPT FOR AN NFL TEAM AS THAT WOULD RANK 31ST. Also, they had a TD called back on a run by Guice on a COMPLETELY NOT questionable holding call BY A GUY NO ONE WANTED AND WE NEVER SHOULD HAVE SIGNED. And we got more yds than their average so no we did not put them in 4th. 

 

No one said it was perfect or even great EXCEPT I COMMENDED AN ABSURD ARGUMENT THAT ANYONE WHO THINKS WE SHOULD SCORE MORE THAN 6 POINTS IS TRYING TO BE STEVE SPURRIER. It's preseason. Overall they did some nice things LIKE THOSE 3 PLAYS and there are things they need to work on.  And yes I will say it every year no matter what the season turns out, if for no other reason than to watch people like you lose your **** OH NOOOOEEES YOU GOT ME😂   Oh and it also happens to be accurate, not false at all JK IM STEVE HARVEY ITS ALL FALSE

 

What's hilarious is when you try to provide a balanced view, you get trashed by the CORRECT CROWD IVE IGNORED FOR YEARS WHO SAID BRUCE AND JAY NEEDED TO BE FIRED BUT I STILL WANT TO SUPPORT MY MAN DAN- It ****ing sucks no matter how much it doesn't and you also get trashed by the - Why are you nit-picking the team when you point out the positives but also point out they have things to work on BECAUSE THEY ARE THE IRRATIONAL FANS AND THEY HAVE BEEN WRONG EVERY YEAR!   

There, fixed it for ya.  Ya welcome 😉

 

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7 hours ago, Peregrine said:

Hahah, yeah, you love to see an either/or fallacy from desperate fans. Its either they are Tom Brady, or they are terrible, theres no option for them to be mediocre, or above average.  "They scored 6 points, what more do you want from them!!!!! You MONSTER!!!!"

 

You're the one doing the complaining.

 

Like I said, I can be patient while they work on their game.

 

If your fandom is causing you this much misery, maybe should take stock if you even want to commit to this season.

 

It can't be pleasant for you.

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23 hours ago, goskins10 said:

So, i was at the game and cannot for the life of me understand the connection to some of the these comments to the actual game that again I saw in person. 

 

 

 

This.  This is why we go to the games.   There's so much that people sitting on the couch miss.

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Posted (edited)

First, thanks for the rational adult response. As we can see from a few of the comments above some people are not capable of being adults. 

 

 

On 8/23/2019 at 2:01 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

I agree.  However, they ALSO need to work on the passing game since they are going to have a new starting QB, the WRs combined have played like 10 minutes of football, and the OL is suspect.  

 

But it was clear as day they wanted to come out and run the ball, it was clear Jay wanted to get Perine some good looks.

 

I just don't love the "concede that we can't pass the ball so we're going to have to run a lot, play conservative and win ugly" mentality.  I'd like for them at least to TRY to put up points through the passing game before deciding they can't do it. 

 

I get what you are saying in terms of conceding the pass, but i don't expect that to be the plan during the regular season. I think this was a preseason game plan only. I do agree if this if this is the mentality during the season, it will be a disaster. 

 

Quote

 

What I saw is if the defense knew it was a pass, there was almost immediate pressure.  If they didn't, it was better.  I think they run-blocked better than pass-blocked.

 

I was thinking the same thing which is a turn around. Under Callaghan they have typically been better pass blockers. Either way, I was glad to see they were not a complete disaster but the level of play Thursday will not work during the regular season. Having said that, if they can get some time together they could improve quite a bit during the regular season. 

 

Quote

 

I really wanted to see Haskins get a few series with the starters against the starters.  But he didn't.  That was dissapointing.  They have already decided who the starting QB is, and they're going to roll with Case.  Ok.  That means you've got to win and be competitive. 

 

I wanted to see more passing from Haskins too. I was Ok with the first series running it in with Perine. Nice few runs there. But after the second muffed punt, let him air it out down there. Get some work in and some looks. I am Ok with starting with Case because I do not think Haskins is ready, especially with so many new parts on offense. The line will be a work in progress. This is basically Guice's rookie season. Lot's of young WRs. Letting the veteran start at least hr first few games seems to be a great idea. 

 

The problem is - and where I am with you - I don;t think they start Case for the reasons above. I think they start Case because they think they can win. And they win a few but in the end Haskins is the future. The good news is if they go long enough with Case, Bruce could finally be on the chopping block. Like SIP, as much as I like Jay, if he was collatoral damage of Bruce being fired, I am in. 

 

Quote

 

I REALLY thought on the play where Sherff pulled he was going to have a hole between Sherff on the inside and the other blocker on the outside, but I think he rushed it a bit and went outside.  That's the difference between a guy like AP and Guide right now.  I think AP sets that up and it's a 30 yard gain, Guice isn't there yet.  That's fine.  He's still a great talent playing in his second preseason game.  The talent is clearly there.  Some good film for him to look at.  

 

He made a lot of good decisions but yea he missed a few holes and ran up a few backs. But I thought he had a good game. 

 

Quote

 

 

Perine is Rob Kelly, and all of the other average backs Jay falls in love with.  (I can't even think of them anymore) Try hard, but not as talented as other backs.  

 

He was fine.  He should not make the team.  But he probably will.  

 

Yea, I prefer Perine be on another team and that sucks because full disclosure i really liked the pick when it happened. He is just not there. Yes, he had a nice drive but it was not against the 1s. 

 

Quote

 

This was on the Redskins Talk Pod this morning.  Moreland is definitely getting a new number after cuts.  

 

He had a concussion.  I don't think he will retire.  But I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him miss 8 games.  

 

You are probably right about Reed not retiring, but he really should. What's garbage is I have not hear anything about Neal even getting a fine - unless they did and I just missed it. Maybe thy do those on Monday? So I guess it still could happen. 

 

Quote

 

On the past he dropped, it looked like a real mis-communication.  Reed sat down, and Keenum thought he was going to keep going, and threw it in front of him. He should have still caught it, but i don't think he was expecting the ball where it was.  

 

Looked to me like Reed quit on the route more than sat down into a open area. Either way he has to catch that ball. But it's still preseason. More drops and mis-communications are going to happen. But what ever the issue, they need to clean it up for the regular season. 

 

Quote

 

Maybe you could tell form being there, I don't think I saw the defense use 1 pressure.  Maybe a blitz snuck in there, but I didn't catch it.  You have to think if this was "live" then the D mixes some things up.  Just a guess. Maybe not.  

 

Again, everything they ran looked really basic.  I don't know if that's going to be the case in the regular season, but I think (hope?) Manusky gets more aggressive and brings more pressures.  

 

I saw it the same way. I didn't really see any blitzes. I do still wish they had gotten to Ryan a few times. But they did harass him and overall did a decent job. This was the 4th best passing team last year and 6th overall offense. And they have Dirk Koetter back at OC. SO to keep them to 7 pts and that was off a very short field - was a really good outcome. And yes, I would expect Manusky will dial up some pretty nice blitzes. This is his second season as DC here and i think that means something. Mostly thew players now have a better idea of what he wants overall. I don;t love or hate Manusky. For me the jury is still out. With the the new toys he has he should be cooking up some pretty nice blitzes. 

 

Quote

 

I don't care about play-calling in the pre-season.  

 

I do very much care about play-calling in the regular season. 

 

There's no excuse NOT to call the TO after the completion to CT with 37 seconds left, though, even in the pre-season.  The next snap came at 17 seconds.  Unless you just let the clock roll all the way down and you go into the half.  That was bad clock management any which way you cut it.  It doesn't matter, except that's been a bugaboo for 5 years.  So we as fans who understand this stuff a little bit are looking for improvement, and we didn't see it there. 

 

That last 43 seconds of the 1st half was a disaster. Not sure if it was Jay, Case or both. But between them they blew that time. How do you throw a pass for a loss of 3 yds with 43 secs left and then not call a TO. So I am really with you on this one. I caught myself thinking, well here we go again. Not a good feeling. 

 

Quote

 

It was clear as mud getting Haskins throws was less important than getting Perine carries.  Jay said as much earlier this week in a presser, that they owed it to Perine to get him better looks and they needed to work on the run game.  Also, they have made up their mind on QB, so what they did with Haskins is immaterial at this point.  

 

Case is going to start.  If he struggles, and Colt is healthy, Colt will play.  If Colt isn't healthy, they'll stay with Case and try and run the ball more.  When they are out of the playoff race, Haskins will get an opportunity.  Right/wrong/indifferent, that's the plan. Nobody has said as much, but it's clear through all of their actions.   

 

This certainly appears to be the path. I am hoping it's more like they plan to get him in early unless the team is playing lights out (very unlikely but possible) they are looking to start Haskins around gm 4 or 5. 

 

Quote

 

I don't really care what they do as long as they are prepared for week 1.  The scenario where I think more playing time is beneficial is with new QB or new Coach.  

 

Cooley pointed out that if you're offense hasn't worked together, and is out of sync, does it really matter if it's healthy?  

 

Again, I'm not going to kill Gruden about anything in the pre-season.  If they come out and get blasted and can't move the ball, we will have to have a serious conversation about why...

 

I agree with all of this. They can't coach scared of injury. And yes they need to come out GM 1 play well. Outside last yr, they have an annoying habit of playing flat the first game under Jay. It needs to be more like last yrs first gm. 

Edited by goskins10
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7 hours ago, goskins10 said:

That last 43 seconds of the 1st half was a disaster. Not sure if it was Jay, Case or both. But between them they blew that time. How do you throw a pass for a loss of 3 yds with 43 secs left and then not call a TO. So I am really with you on this one. I caught myself thinking, well here we go again. Not a good feeling. 

The HC has to call the TO there regardless of what the QB does.  It’s his job to manage the clock and that was just BAD.

7 hours ago, goskins10 said:

First, thanks for the rational adult response. As we can see from a few of the comments above some people are not capable of being adults. 

Well, I try to live up to my screen name from time to time... :P

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7 hours ago, goskins10 said:

It needs to be more like last yrs first gm. 

Last year’s first game was tough to judge in hindsight because the Cardinals were BAD.  Skins looked good, which they should have, then they looked lethargic in game 2 at home against Indy.

 

A quick start this year will be tough.  However if the team is “close” then they can’t just lose 4 of 5 of their fige games to good teams.  That’s not close.  That’s “meh” to bad.  

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, goskins10 said:

The good news is if they go long enough with Case, Bruce could finally be on the chopping block. Like SIP, as much as I like Jay, if he was collatoral damage of Bruce being fired, I am in. 

This is the “close” thing.  Bruce said the “we’re close” with full awareness of the QB situation and he expects, and my guess is has convinced Dan, that they can win anyway. 

 

I actually think there’s more talent on the team than most, and there IS enough talent on the team, if used correctly, to get 8-ish wins.  What will stop them from getting more is OL and QB play. 

 

BUT Brucey has said consistently we are close.  So what happens if we start 1-4? I think Bruce fires Jay and promotes KO in an attempt to save his own ass.  “Scapegoating” Jay seems like something Bruce would do. 

 

I do think if this season goes completely south, Bruce HAS to take some responsibility.  He’s the goddamn president for Pete’s sake.  

 

I’d love to see Bruce gone.  I personally don’t think Jay is collateral damage, but if both were gone, that’s at least 1 step.  Who the replacements would be would determine if it was a step in the right or wrong direction.

Edited by Voice_of_Reason
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7 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

This is the “close” thing.  Bruce said the “we’re close” with full awareness of the QB situation and he expects, and my guess is has convinced Dan, that they can win anyway. 

 

I actually think there’s more talent on the team than most, and there IS enough talent on the team, if used correctly, to get 8-ish wins.  What will stop them from getting more is OL and QB play. 

 

BUT Brucey has said consistently we are close.  So what happens if we start 1-4? I think Bruce fires Jay and promotes KO in an attempt to save his own ass.  “Scapegoating” Jay seems like something Bruce would do. 

 

I do think if this season goes completely south, Bruce HAS to take some responsibility.  He’s the goddamn president for Pete’s sake.  

 

I’d love to see Bruce gone.  I personally don’t think Jay is collateral damage, but if both were gone, that’s at least 1 step.  Who the replacements would be would determine if it was a step in the right or wrong direction.

 

This for me is the worst case scenario - that unfortunately has the best chance of actually happening. I like Jay but again, I would gladly see Jay go if it meant Bruce is gone too. But a team with Bruce without Jay means that idiot Bruce has a new lease on life - at least another couple of years.

 

The underlying problem of course is that the real issue is Dan. It appears he has stepped back some but in the end from all we hear and see he creates a very caustic environment to work in. Just about everyone that has come here has under performed. His management style does not bring the best out of people. In fact it brings the worst out. So even if he brings in new people, will he take yet another tiny step towards being a good owner let the GM create their own environment? Doubtful. 

 

I feel really sorry for those that have never known this team without Dan Snyder as the owner. I wish they could know the teams that many of us saw in the late 60s and through the 70s and 80s. I fear that as long as mini me owns the team mediocre is about the best we will get to. We do have some really good talent in a few places. There is also some significant potential. So maybe I get proven wrong. Haskins is a big part of that. If he turns out to be the real deal, a true franchise QB can mask a lot of other problems. 

 

But as I have said before and will continue to say it until something changes - if Dan Snyder truly cares about the Redskins the way he says he does, the best thing he could do for the team and the fans is sell the team. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

This for me is the worst case scenario - that unfortunately has the best chance of actually happening. I like Jay but again, I would gladly see Jay go if it meant Bruce is gone too. But a team with Bruce without Jay means that idiot Bruce has a new lease on life - at least another couple of years.

It is the worst case scenario to me as well.  However I think I’m in the minority’s believing Jay’s coaching has actually let the FO down as much as the FO has let Jay down.  

 

A better GM would help Jay have more talent to coach, but a better coach could get more out of the players he was given.  2016 was the ultimate example of that.  There was more than enough talent on that team

to go to the playoffs they had a play-in game) and the coaching let down the team big time, and not just in that game.

 

The right answer is that all of them go. Preferably at the same time. New regime. Pick a new coach.  

 

But Bruce isn’t stupid.  If he’s going to do it, he’ll do it early so the new guy has the easier part of the schedule to work with. 

 

I really see this as the most likely scenario at the moment. Unless they surprise and go 2-3 or 3-2 I’m their first 5....

 

 

EDIT: this is my last post on this topic regardless.  This isn’t a Jay/Bruce thread.

 

Edited by Voice_of_Reason
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