visionary

NYT: As Trump Accuses Iran, He Has One Problem: His Own Credibility

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53 minutes ago, Koala said:

I think your statement is more likely true assuming Trump stays president.  Papa Putin ain't letting him go to war with Iran.  And Trump doesnt really want any war on Iran.  He showed his hand when he backed down to Iran by calling back those strikes in June.

I agree Trump wants to avoid a war.  I think he imagined that his bluffing would be more effective but he's done it so often that the world sees him as a paper tiger.  This makes the world a more dangerous place and represents a major failing by his administration.  One of many.

 

53 minutes ago, Koala said:

Basically Iran did this because they can.  The Saudis are a bunch of cowards, they'll never fight a war against an enemy that can fight back, and so 8f they cant hire someone to fight Iran for them, the just have to sit there and take it.  Iran realizing this, and are now openly taunting the Saudis.

It's well understood that Iran has been fighting a proxy war with Saudi Arabia in Yemen this entire time.  The media and the UN focus on the human rights abuses and weapon sales but the bigger story is that Iran and KSA are moving closer to a major conflict.  This latest attack on KSA represents a major escalation in that conflict.  So I don't think Iran is just now openly taunting the Saudis, they've been doing that fairly openly for some time. 

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1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

I don't think Trump wants to go to war.  Deep inside, Trump knows he is a fraud, and he likely doesn't want the very real consequences and collateral damage of war on his shoulders.

 

If you think Trump gives two ****s about the consequences of his actions on anybody but himself, then you and I have vastly different opinions of the man.  

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1 minute ago, Larry said:

 

If you think Trump gives two ****s about the consequences of his actions on anybody but himself, then you and I have vastly different opinions of the man.  

 

it's not the consequences so much as his ability to fake things.  If he authorizes war and bodies start piling up, there is no "cooking numbers to make things seem ok"   His image will be forever tied to it.  

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5 minutes ago, visionary said:

 

 

Well, in the Saudi's defense, I have to say that I find the theory that Iran was behind the attack completely believable.  

 

Granted, I could see Israel doing it, too.  Or the US.  Or the Saudis.  

 

In fact, the only thing I'm having trouble believing is that Donald Trump hasn't decided that starting a war enhances his chances of reelection.  Got W reelected.  

 

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Besides the fact that war would be the absolutely most unpopular thing Trump could do.  Sure, the retards who follow him would love it because he’d be sticking it to the libs, but real people would absolutely revolt.

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On 9/19/2019 at 10:18 AM, Cooked Crack said:

 

"refinery incident" sounds a lot nicer than "cruise missile strike."  I get that people don't want to go to war, no sane person should, but the US has to respond to Iran attacking a US ally.  Especially when they do so to send a message to the world about their ability to disrupt global energy markets.  It doesn't have to be war, but it has to be something.  The US can't talk tough only to wilt when our enemies walk boldly across our lines in the sand.  

 

North Korea has nukes despite the west entirely being opposed to it.  Thanks to China, who are the reason North Korea exists in the first place and why they've managed to continue to exist.  (and whoever helped them with their nuclear program)

Russian meddled in US elections, in Syria, and invaded Crimea.  

Iran bombed Saudi Arabia, shot down a US drown, detained a UK tanker, and likely bombed a Japanese ship.

 

Line stepping is all the rage these days. 

 

 

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On 9/18/2019 at 5:38 PM, Larry said:

 

In fact, the only thing I'm having trouble believing is that Donald Trump hasn't decided that starting a war enhances his chances of reelection.  Got W reelected.  

 

 

Certainly wasnt because of the Iraq War from what I remember there was this over emphasis on scaring us all ****less from how to address terrorism.  Remember the Terror Color Chart that kept going up and down on live TV then disappeared after the election?  Fear got W relected, imo, not war.

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16 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Certainly wasnt because of the Iraq War from what I remember there was this over emphasis on scaring us all ****less from how to address terrorism.  Remember the Terror Color Chart that kept going up and down on live TV then disappeared after the election?  Fear got W relected, imo, not war.

 

I think of them as related.  

 

One of the many things about the Right that makes me wonder if they're really as stupid as they act, is willingness to at least act like they believe that you can prevent terrorism in the US by bombing Musim villiages in the ME.  

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12 hours ago, Destino said:

 It doesn't have to be war, but it has to be something. 

 

 

 

agreed, but there are many options beyond a military strike or war.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

I think of them as related.  

 

One of the many things about the Right that makes me wonder if they're really as stupid as they act, is willingness to at least act like they believe that you can prevent terrorism in the US by bombing Musim villiages in the ME.  

 

Fair, I'll say theres a clear difference between predator droning towns you never heard of and putting troops there.  Trump ran on getting troops out of the middle east and bombing the hell out of ISIS, I think the right is on the same page in the difference there

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Yeah, I've gotta say, Trump is surprising me, here.  

 

Between all the ME Hawks he appointed, to breaking the Iran deal (and not even attempting to replace it with anything), to the way he's been prostrating himself before Bibi and the Saudis, I figured it was just another way Trump was going to be W, only bigger and dumber.  

 

I thought he was doing all these things because he was begging for a war.  

 

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5 hours ago, visionary said:

Trump likes bombing people who won’t retaliate. 

 

who doesn't?

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1 hour ago, visionary said:

 

 

"US led military effort"?  

 

Wasn't aware that the US was leading any military effort.  

 

And what kind of PM volunteers to let Donald Trump lead him?  

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Gonna actually hope that he can accomplish something useful, there.  

 

Wouldn't bet on it.  But I'll be hoping.  

 

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