bakedtater1

The current status of the Redskins o-line.

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Posted (edited)

So I went back a few pages and I didn't find a thread for our current offensive line and the situation of it. So I decided to start this thread and figured we could use this place to talk about the offensive line.

 

Right now we have Trent Williams left tackle and everybody knows what's going on there of course, a question mark at left guard, Chase Roullier at center, Brandon Scherff at Right guard, and he's in a contract debacle... Not debacle but you know what I mean.. then Morgan Moses at right tackle... And if I am wrong please correct me, I don't Google and all this other searching stuff..that's who I believe the offensive line is made up of right now.

 

I just wanted everyone's opinions and thoughts on how good of a tackle Morgan Moses is are we going to lock up Brandon? what's everyone's thoughts on Chase at center? And if we do move on from Trent what is everybody's opinions and ideas on the plan to replace him.

 

I suspect scherff to be back and fully healed ready to go..Chase ain't a bad center..or is he?..who's even the projected starter at left guard?..will Trent return?.. It's starting to look like a big ? On the offensive line which of course isn't good with a. trying to win now and b. having a rookie QB...I got a horrible feeling who ever is behind center could be running for there life.

Edited by bakedtater1
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Chase and Scherff are solid. I've never been sold on the false starting matador at RT. I think he should be depth only, not a starter, but we have no better, more viable, option on the roster right now. Williams was an elite LT, no doubt, but I don't think he deserves any kind of big-time contract extension. His injury history just doesn't warrant it. Maybe one of the draft picks will work out at LG. Flowers is just depth. Maybe Callahan has a plan for Pierschbacher to play LG instead of C? I haven't really followed training camp (no twitter, and I don't plan to start), but I trust Callahan to have Martin and Pierschbacher ready to roll.

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Posted (edited)

I don't know what the hell our o-line is going to end up doing this year, but this is kind of cool. Geron Christian vs Montez Sweat in 2017 (#74 vs #9). Also, notice how he'll switch from the left to the right tackle position in game. That's kind of funky, but if he's the only guy who can match Tez's speed it makes sense I guess. He just needs to get stronger.
 

 

 

Edited by Fresh8686
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1 hour ago, skinzplay said:

Chase and Scherff are solid. I've never been sold on the false starting matador at RT. I think he should be depth only, not a starter, but we have no better, more viable, option on the roster right now. Williams was an elite LT, no doubt, but I don't think he deserves any kind of big-time contract extension. His injury history just doesn't warrant it. Maybe one of the draft picks will work out at LG. Flowers is just depth. Maybe Callahan has a plan for Pierschbacher to play LG instead of C? I haven't really followed training camp (no twitter, and I don't plan to start), but I trust Callahan to have Martin and Pierschbacher ready to roll.

Lots of good points here...I don't follow Twitter either that's why I come here there's always good stuff here on what's going on..

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3 hours ago, skinzplay said:

Chase and Scherff are solid. I've never been sold on the false starting matador at RT. I think he should be depth only, not a starter, but we have no better, more viable, option on the roster right now. Williams was an elite LT, no doubt, but I don't think he deserves any kind of big-time contract extension. His injury history just doesn't warrant it. Maybe one of the draft picks will work out at LG. Flowers is just depth. Maybe Callahan has a plan for Pierschbacher to play LG instead of C? I haven't really followed training camp (no twitter, and I don't plan to start), but I trust Callahan to have Martin and Pierschbacher ready to roll.

thats pretty much it.. well said. We need an upgrade at RT and now possibly a new LT assuming one of the rookies works out at guard

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We knew the OL was in a precarious state before Trent Williams' holdout.  Skins were going to try out Flowers at Guard but my expectation was that he was just camp fodder.  No way that they put him at LT considered he busted so many times there before.  Geron Christian was drafted as a long term project  - he was athletic and has the right build but was not strong enough.  Unfortunately, he looked terrible in preseason and then was injured so it's unlikely we will see a significant improvement.  Chase gets the job done and isn't constantly injured so that's a big plus on this team.  Scherff will get the job done but he will always be criticized because of the high draft pick that they used.  It's hard to knock Moses because he's always injured and plays through the pain.  That may be better than a TE on the team but it's not good enough.  The irony is that the Skins OL is very highly paid compared to other teams but can't get the job done consistently because of wear and tear and gaping weak links.  Skins need a rebuild of the OL like what they did for the Dline.  But they are short a second round pick next year (and have many other needs) AND will still be paying Alex Smith's contract.  We are back in a mini cap hell and short on draft picks.  Deja vu.

 

I am hopeful that one of the two OL draft picks will start at LG.  The other will turn out to be quality depth this year and ready perhaps to take over at C or G the following year.  Christian will step up this year and demonstrate that he is a viable option to start the following year.  I know I am being greedy but I'm optimistic about the scouting department now.

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Morgan has one more year IMO before he gets cut. His cap hit for 2020 and 21 is 8.5 and 9.5 whereas if we cut him after the season he'll only count for 3.8 and 1.9. I think once Brandon is extended a lot of Morgan's salary will be allocated to Brandon. I think there'll be some decent FA talent available depending on who isn't resigned that will be cheaper than Morgan. Ifedi, Conklin come to mind. I'm still hoping to god that Flowers finds his footing (no pun intended) with Callahan. 

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Posted (edited)

Thank you for starting this thread the neglect and state of the OL is appalling, I just don't understand why the Skins have not invested more in it.  I wanted the Skins to use their FIRST THREE 2019 picks on an OT and couple of OG/C players and straighten out the problem before learning Williams is disgruntle.  Even before the OL got depleted with injuries in 2017 & 2018 it had run blocking issues.  As of today it is difficult to be optimistic about the season even if they resolve Trent William's issue because the OL is so injury prone. 

Edited by Veryoldschool
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3 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

Thank you for starting this thread the neglect state of the OL is appalling, I just don't understand why the Skins have not invested more in it.  I wanted the Skins to use their FIRST THREE picks on an OT and couple of OG/C players this year and straighten out the problem before learning Williams is disgruntle.  Even before the OL got depleted with injuries in 2017 & 2018 it had run blocking issues.  As of today it is difficult to be optimistic about the season even if they resolve Trent William's issue because the OL is so injury prone. 

excellent post here I was hoping to get a response from you, I know you're a big offensive line person... Kind of wish they would pull a cowgirl situation and go oline first round 5 years in a row.. I would not have been upset at all to have gone best left guard available instead of Haskins...so we're basically set at center and Right guard is all.. ugh

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2 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

excellent post here I was hoping to get a response from you, I know you're a big offensive line person... Kind of wish they would pull a cowgirl situation and go oline first round 5 years in a row.. I would not have been upset at all to have gone best left guard available instead of Haskins...so we're basically set at center and Right guard is all.. ugh

I think the Williams situation gets resolved and if Moses can show what he did a couple years back then this line is pretty solid save for LG. I think between Martin, Pierschbacher, Bergstrom, Christian and Flowers the potential for good depth is there. I really don't want to underrate this line because of the ridiculous number of injuries the last couple years. If they're injury prone then we'll see a repeat this year, but i prefer to believe the team was just snake-bitten. I mean losing two QBs in consecutive games to devastating broken legs is really indicative of bad luck as much as anything. 

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Some general thoughts:

The years of wasted picks on crappy WR's instead of Oline and Dline continues to echo throughout the system. 

The Dline is respectable now (because of the luck of players who fell to them in the draft), but the Oline loaded with questions due to lack of focus on depth. 

I hear all the pundits refer to the Oline as "very good ... when healthy".  Trouble is, this is the third year I've heard those comments

The Trent Williams fiasco points to poor communication between the front office and a Pro-bowl player; that should not happen. 

 

Predictions:

Redskins will continue a revolving door of Oline off the street.

Redskins will poach an Olineman from a practice squad at the start of the season.

 

 

 

 

:229:The Rook

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

Thank you for starting this thread the neglect state of the OL is appalling, I just don't understand why the Skins have not invested more in it.  I wanted the Skins to use their FIRST THREE picks on an OT and couple of OG/C players this year and straighten out the problem before learning Williams is disgruntle.  Even before the OL got depleted with injuries in 2017 & 2018 it had run blocking issues.  As of today it is difficult to be optimistic about the season even if they resolve Trent William's issue because the OL is so injury prone. 

 

I am sorry but that kind of investment is nonsense and in an the modern NFL, if Trent wasn't disgruntled could have ended up with two out of three very high draft picks sitting on the bench for better than half their rookie contracts (because one of your proposed picks likely would have started at LG) if Trent stayed relatively healthy and Chase remained solid.  That is not the way to build a winning team

17 minutes ago, The Rook said:

Some general thoughts:

The years of wasted picks on crappy WR's instead of Oline and Dline continues to echo throughout the system. 

The Dline is respectable now (because of the luck of players who fell to them in the draft), but the Oline loaded with questions due to lack of focus on depth. 

I hear all the pundits refer to the Oline as "very good ... when healthy".  Trouble is, this is the third year I've heard those comments

The Trent Williams fiasco points to poor communication between the front office and a Pro-bowl player; that should not happen. 

 

Predictions:

Redskins will continue a revolving door of Oline off the street.

Redskins will poach an Olineman from a practice squad at the start of the season.

 

 

 

 

:229:The Rook

 

In the 1980s maybe you could have carried an entire backup line of starting quality OL, not today

Edited by carex

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, carex said:

 

I am sorry but that kind of investment is nonsense and in an the modern NFL, if Trent wasn't disgruntled could have ended up with two out of three very high draft picks sitting on the bench for better than half their rookie contracts (because one of your proposed picks likely would have started at LG) if Trent stayed relatively healthy and Chase remained solid.  That is not the way to build a winning team

 

In the 1980s maybe you could have carried an entire backup line of starting quality OL, not today

 

Let's talk again in November.  If the OL is performing your view of things will make some sense to me but if as I fear the OL is manned by bus station guys again than I am going to feel the FO is full of it and I was right.  Without an functioning OL you really don't have a chance in football.

Edited by Veryoldschool
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Posted (edited)

The performance level of the Redskins' OL isn't the problem.

 

They have 3 pro bowlers along the line in Williams, Scherff, and Moses.

 

The center, Roullier, is a very good player who has done very well.

 

Left guard is the only real question mark.

 

The problem with the Redskins' OL isn't ability. It's durability. They can't stay healthy.

 

If the team can't find a way to keep them healthy and playing, it won't matter who the QB or RB is. They won't get anywhere.

Edited by SkinsGuy
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1 minute ago, SkinsGuy said:

The performance level of the Redskins' OL isn't the problem.

 

They have 3 pro bowlers along the line in Williams, Scherff, and Moses.

 

The center, Roullier, is a very good player who has done very well.

 

Left guard is the only real question mark.

 

The problem with the Redskins' OL isn't ability. It's durability. They can't stay healthy.

 

If the team can't find a way to keep them healthy and playing, it won't matter who the QB or RB is. They won't get anywhere.

 

"They can't stay healthy."  That says it all because of what value is a fragile OL?   It doesn't matter how big their contracts are when they are sitting on the bench watching bus station guys play.

 

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3 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

"They can't stay healthy."  That says it all because of what value is a fragile OL?   It doesn't matter how big their contracts are when they are sitting on the bench watching bus station guys play.

 

 

The thing is, as far as I know, none of these players on the OL were considered "injury prone" players when they were in the draft.

 

So why are they all constantly getting injured now? 

 

Not that this is exclusive to the OL. This whole team has dealt with massive injuries for a couple of seasons.

 

So for the OL, it's not a talent issue. It might be a problem with how the team practices and prepares.

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1 hour ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Let's talk again in November.  If the OL is performing your view of things will make some sense to me but if as I fear the OL is manned by bus station guys again than I am going to feel the FO is full of it and I was right.  Without an functioning OL you really don't have a chance in football.

 

hindsight is not a legitimate way to do things.

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44 minutes ago, carex said:

 

hindsight is not a legitimate way to do things.

 

This makes no sense at all because results are only real measure of decisions.  I said before the draft they should use the first three picks on the OL and I say so now.  If the OL breaks down again in 2019 I was right and the FO and you wrong.

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2 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

The performance level of the Redskins' OL isn't the problem.

 

They have 3 pro bowlers along the line in Williams, Scherff, and Moses.

 

The center, Roullier, is a very good player who has done very well.

 

Left guard is the only real question mark.

 

The problem with the Redskins' OL isn't ability. It's durability. They can't stay healthy.

 

If the team can't find a way to keep them healthy and playing, it won't matter who the QB or RB is. They won't get anywhere.

 

Thank you.  I don’t get this doom and gloom outlook on the line.  Most people say we have one of the best lines when healthy.  Moses though, okay, I’m not president of the Morgan Moses fan club either.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

This makes no sense at all because results are only real measure of decisions.  I said before the draft they should use the first three picks on the OL and I say so now.  If the OL breaks down again in 2019 I was right and the FO and you wrong.

 

except you can't properly do that because you cannot look into alternate timelines

 

Maybe-we're 3-5  in Novemberwith a bunch on OL injuries

 

But maybe in the world where we draft 3 OL we're 1-7 with a bunch of OL injuries because one win in this world comes off a Haskins to McClaurin TD pass and another comes when Sweat gets a sack/fumble that kills a drive.

 

I mean it's not like youth has protected our draft picks in previous years

Edited by carex

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38 minutes ago, carex said:

 

except you can't properly do that because you cannot look into alternate timelines

 

Maybe-we're 3-5  in Novemberwith a bunch on OL injuries

 

But maybe in the world where we draft 3 OL we're 1-7 with a bunch of OL injuries because one win in this world comes off a Haskins to McClaurin TD pass and another comes when Sweat gets a sack/fumble that kills a drive.

 

I mean it's not like youth has protected our draft picks in previous years

 

I prefer to think of the Skins 5-3 with two or three talented young linemen opening holes for running backs and protecting a game Case Keenum but the ownership went another direction.

 

Sweats will make things tougher on opposing QBs.  I've seen him play and he is disruptive.  I don't know what to expect from Haskins and McClaurin.  I saw Haskins play only once and it wasn't one of his better games, we will have to see but I don't even want him on the field if the OL is depleted in 2019 like they were in 2017 & 2017.  

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Given our heavy focus on the oline, especially in the recent past, we need to ask why we are in such a precarious state on the offensive line.

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2 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

I prefer to think of the Skins 5-3 with two or three talented young linemen opening holes for running backs and protecting a game Case Keenum but the ownership went another direction.

 

Sweats will make things tougher on opposing QBs.  I've seen him play and he is disruptive.  I don't know what to expect from Haskins and McClaurin.  I saw Haskins play only once and it wasn't one of his better games, we will have to see but I don't even want him on the field if the OL is depleted in 2019 like they were in 2017 & 2017.  

 

yeah, well like I said, if we're going to be planning based on worst case injury scenarios I see no reason to assume our rookies would be spared

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