bakedtater1

The current status of the Redskins o-line.

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5 hours ago, The Rook said:

Some general thoughts:

The years of wasted picks on crappy WR's instead of Oline and Dline continues to echo throughout the system. 

 

 

Not really sure who this is referring to. Doctson would be the one obvious "wasted" pick. But looking at the least 6 years or so, Trey Quinn was picked with the last pick in the draft, Robert Davis in the late 6th round, Crowder in the mid-4th, Evan Spencer in the later 6th, and Ryan Grant in the 5th. Grant and Crowder turned out just fine for their draft positions, Crowder specifically doing quite well. So are we really squabbling over late 6th and 7th round picks? Spencer was a wasted pick, but are we really saying the entire OL hinged on late 6th and 7th rounders we missed out on (it's too early to really judge Davis or Quinn). Besides Doctson, the last decent pick to be "wasted" on a WR was a 3rd rounder in 2011 on Leonard Hankerson. Unless we're already calling this year's third rounder, Terry McLaurin, a bust. 

 

The team's current WRs do suck, but that's in part because the team hasn't invested in the position. One first rounder in the last 8 drafts. One third rounder in the last 8 drafts and he's a rookie this year. One four rounder, which was Crowder. One fifth rounder in Grant. That's it. Everything else is 6th or later. No wonder the WRs suck. No investment and the one big pick did pan out.

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10 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

Given our heavy focus on the oline, especially in the recent past, we need to ask why we are in such a precarious state on the offensive line.

 

we haven't really heavily focused on the OL.  We've picked seven people in five years, which  I feel is decent and it's not that hard to figure out the problems

 

Of our seven picks:

 

Two are starters for us: Scherff, Roullier

Two are rookies that haven't proven anything: Martin, Pierschbacher

One was a bust: Kouandijo

One was lost cause we tried to shift him to PS: Reiter

One was drafted knowing he would be a project: Christian

 

Imagine if we'd kept Reiter and tried to PS Kouandijo

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6 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

I think the Williams situation gets resolved and if Moses can show what he did a couple years back then this line is pretty solid save for LG. I think between Martin, Pierschbacher, Bergstrom, Christian and Flowers the potential for good depth is there. I really don't want to underrate this line because of the ridiculous number of injuries the last couple years. If they're injury prone then we'll see a repeat this year, but i prefer to believe the team was just snake-bitten. I mean losing two QBs in consecutive games to devastating broken legs is really indicative of bad luck as much as anything. 

 

I think Moses is perpetually hurt every week, and I think it affects his play.  I was shocked to see he hasnt missed a start in 4 years.  He's out there every week, but he always seems nicked, especially the last couple years.

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Over the past few seasons, I believe we have had a few major issues concerning our oline

 

1. our depth has been very poor

2. We usually have 1 to 2 very weak positions along the oline

3. Lack of offensive skill positional talent (wr, te, rb)

 

Imo, these factors really put the strain on the oline. They don't have any breathing room for mistakes and have to overexert themselves. I feel this leads to injuries, along with the occasional freak injuries we are getting as well. 

 

The injuries lately have created rotating doors at nearly all oline positions and have led to a lack of unity on the oline.

 

I do predict pain concerning the oline this year. While there is a chance that some of the players we drafted become bankable starters, I'd say odds are they do not. 80/20% in that regard. 

 

We needed to and will continue to need to invest more $ and higher draft picks at the oline position. 

 

We can't do much to fix these problems this year, but if case develops a good rapport with one of our wide receivers and guice plays well without injury.. tall orders.. we might be able to do enough to overcome some of these issues. 

Edited by sportjunkie07
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I'm with sj on this, a lot of the woes vis-a-vis the O line stem from weaknesses beyond their control. It's one reason I got amped watching Haskins, the kid is decisive, the ball comes out, the line won't have to hold on-hold on-hold on some more while the QB waits for someone to clear a defender. 

 

Now, not to say we don't need more/better big bodies up front, but I know I have heard myself yelling too many times "Pull the trigger! Throw the damned ball already!" watching Skins games. The turmoil @ QB for years has had an effect elsewhere. The line having to do too much for too long too often has worn them down. We get an explosive offense on the field, Guice slicing through, Haskins making a read and releasing it, a play happening instead of waiting to happen and the O line will suddenly look much better.

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13 hours ago, carex said:

 

we haven't really heavily focused on the OL.  We've picked seven people in five years, which  I feel is decent and it's not that hard to figure out the problems

 

Of our seven picks:

 

Two are starters for us: Scherff, Roullier

Two are rookies that haven't proven anything: Martin, Pierschbacher

One was a bust: Kouandijo

One was lost cause we tried to shift him to PS: Reiter

One was drafted knowing he would be a project: Christian

 

Imagine if we'd kept Reiter and tried to PS Kouandijo

 

If you include a sixth year (the 2014 draft), that would bring in Morgan Moses, a 3rd round pick and a pro bowler.

 

So that would be 8 players in six years. Three of whom are now starters and two are pro bowlers.

 

That's about a 40% success rate in finding starters, which is pretty good for a draft set-up which can be pretty shot-in-the-dark. In fact, I think it is above the average hit rate in the draft, which is usually around 35% of the time.

 

Some of the players haven't worked out, but that is to be expected.

 

I'll be interested to see how our rookie OL fair this season.

Edited by SkinsGuy

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Not to beat a dead horse but the Skins had a bust of three first round picks and one second round pick caused by one QB.  If the bust was only one first round pick then three high picks could have helped the OL and WR core.

 

Edited by PlayAction

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17 hours ago, justice98 said:

 

I think Moses is perpetually hurt every week, and I think it affects his play.  I was shocked to see he hasnt missed a start in 4 years.  He's out there every week, but he always seems nicked, especially the last couple years.

I think it would have been vastly different if everyone else wasn't injured. I'm sure if he would have had a week off every now and again to let his body rest the nagging injuries wouldn't have persisted. But yeah, he's a warrior for gutting it out every week while everyone else around him dropped like flies. 

17 hours ago, carex said:

magine if we'd kept Reiter and tried to PS Kouandijo

 

Reiter is on his third team in 4 years and also has injury problems. He's started a whopping 5 games and wasn't good enough to not be waived by Cleveland. I don't know why everyone is acting like he was the magical key that got away. 

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By late November, we may be wondering whether Josh Johnson will take the Redskins' call this time around. 😄

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We will have a decent LT playing whether it be TW or a FA or a trade for a player.  

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22 hours ago, PlayAction said:

Not to beat a dead horse but the Skins had a bust of three first round picks and one second round pick caused by one QB.  If the bust was only one first round pick then three high picks could have helped the OL and WR core.

 

 

Jesus christ. 

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1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

JP Finlay thinks Geron Christian is going to start the season on the PUP list.

Ughh

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1 hour ago, Otis Wonsley Posse said:

Disappointing LG hasn’t been addressed and now everything gets magnified with TW garbage

 

I take it that to you only a free agent starter from another team or a first or second round pick would qualify as addressed

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58 minutes ago, Otis Wonsley Posse said:

Disappointing LG hasn’t been addressed and now everything gets magnified with TW garbage

 

Maybe not to your liking, but the team did spend some resources to address LG.  4th round Wes Martin is a LG.  5th rounder Pierschbacher is a G/C.  The argument to be made then is, do you think LG should have been more of a priority with more resources put into it? 

 

After drafting Haskins at #15, I was hoping we'd go OL or a versatile blocking TE in the 2nd.  But right now (on paper) it's hard to argue with their decision to trade up for Montez Sweat.  If the Trent Williams situation never came up, and we drafted a Guard in the 2nd round, we'd be yelling at the FO saying "how could we not address the Edge spot, how are we relying on Ryan Anderson?"

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The PUP list may be best for Geron.  He wasn't ready last year and we weren't going to risk him to the PS. He got forced in too soon and got blown up. Literally and figuratively. So he missed out on the year to develop he needed, and so now, the year to learn is this year. Obviously he is still isn't healed up so he is slow out of the gate, so the team cannot wait to act to get a body in at T. I am prepared for this season to be a write off for him. Hopefully he will heal up quick and get into some games late in the year, but my expectation bar is VERY low for this 3rd rounder. With our injury prone Ts taking a project in the 3rd round was a mistake IMO. We were afraid to stash him, and likely more afraid to play him.

 

Week 1 looks:

Catalina | Flowers | Chase | Scherff | Moses

Parris | Catalina | Chase | Scherff | Moses

Catalina | Martin | Chase | Scherff | Moses

 

Week 16 projections:

Wallace | Dunn | Pierschbacher | Foster | Bergstrom

 

Hey at least he plays angry.

488138488.jpeg&w=3200

 

 

 

Edited by RandyHolt
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22 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

JP Finlay thinks Geron Christian is going to start the season on the PUP list.


Yea, but Mitch Tischler who used to play o-line and who was on the podcast with JP wasn't as pessimistic. I think JP was kind of reacting as if an MCL tear is as bad as or takes as long to heal as an ACL, which it usually isn't.

 

Jay thinks he'll be ready by training camp and Mitch said that at least he was showing side-to-side mobility on the side fields and doesn't think he's "super far away" to be ready by training camp.

However, I still doubt he helps us much in the short term, because he needed to get much stronger to contribute and I have a hard time seeing how he'd gain strength while also rehabbing from that injury.

Edited by Fresh8686
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On 6/9/2019 at 11:50 AM, PlayAction said:

Not to beat a dead horse but the Skins had a bust of three first round picks and one second round pick caused by one QB.  If the bust was only one first round pick then three high picks could have helped the OL and WR core.

 

 

Amen!  Imagine if those 4 high picks had been invested in quality OL instead.  

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I'd like to see Scherff and Moses swap positions. On paper, we appear to have decent depth on the interior and hopefully Flowers will show well.

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25 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Amen!  Imagine if those 4 high picks had been invested in quality OL instead.  

they'd be almost as old as Trent and we'd be complaining about that

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Since we have no TE thread I am curious if Jordan Reed will be rehabbing weekly, again all year.  IIRC he had turf toe and was clearly limited for the entire season, but otherwise knock on wood was more durable and didn't miss many games.  All the talk of moving him out wide sounds great accept that we may be thinner at TE than at WR. 

Edited by RandyHolt

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46 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Since we have no TE thread I am curious if Jordan Reed will be rehabbing weekly, again all year.  IIRC he had turf toe and was clearly limited for the entire season, but otherwise knock on wood was more durable and didn't miss many games.  All the talk of moving him out wide sounds great accept that we may be thinner at TE than at WR. 


I don't know about everybody else but I'm a little more optimistic than past seasons when it comes to Reed. This will be his first off-season in awhile where he can come into camp and go with the ones, rather than be rehabbing till the regular season. He actually had surgery on that turf toe last year that should fix that issue and that surgery was part of what caused him to miss the last off-season.

Now, he's still one concussion or other injury away from being out like usual, but at least his push off and separation should be better.

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3 hours ago, Fresh8686 said:


I don't know about everybody else but I'm a little more optimistic than past seasons when it comes to Reed. This will be his first off-season in awhile where he can come into camp and go with the ones, rather than be rehabbing till the regular season. He actually had surgery on that turf toe last year that should fix that issue and that surgery was part of what caused him to miss the last off-season.

Now, he's still one concussion or other injury away from being out like usual, but at least his push off and separation should be better.

He had surgery, fantastic. I am optimistic as well. Despite his lingering injury all year long he contributed, albeit not to his 2015 superstar like standard. But he toughed it out never complained, and think a healthy Reed will easily be our most feared target in the passing game.  We neeeeed him back to unlock our offense.  

 

Especially if our hands TE Vernon Davis, has stone hands again this year.

 

 

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