bakedtater1

The current status of the Redskins o-line.

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47 minutes ago, dyst said:

Our line is ok at pass blocking, but not good at run blocking. Part of that is scheme, as I’m sure Belicheck could scheme something with these guys but its also talent. Our guys just don’t open holes for the running back. Not a huge fan of Moses.

 

We should cut Moses after this season. He had one good year and then got his extension. Since then, he's always hurt and has been a bum. Hope we can get someone in the draft next year or sign someone

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Moses mouthing off about AP and refs and then the penalties themselves are enough for me to support Jay suspending him for a week.

 

Roll Geron and roll left. 

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Ol' Quick Draw should learn when to measure his words. Mouthing off against the officials will do him (and the team) no favors. That was a good crew in Philly on Sunday. And btw, even though Quick Draw said it was obvious that the refs had "never played a lick of football in their lives"........newsflash: the guy who called most of the holding and backfield infractions actually played 6 years in the league.

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I hope that one day advanced stats will help coaches figure out which plays are prone for more holding calls e.g. sweeps.   Big long slow developing run plays = more chance for holds, right??

 

Jay has to do something. Toga party. Since we cannot run for **** and cannot avoid penalties he needs to seriously consider going uptempo and gas the D so they cannot come at Moses full speed every play, which I think will lead towards more penalties.

 

I HATE holding penalties on garbage run plays that had NO chance anyways.  Go pass happy - tell the OTs to hold anytime our QB is going to get crushed. Save holds for avoiding turnovers and to keep the QB clean, not to help AP gain half a yard. That half a yard he can gain by jump cutting around the guy Moses thinks he has to hold to get an edge.

Edited by RandyHolt
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For all of you who wrote Ereck Flowers off and wanted Martin to start how are you feeling now?

Flowers and Penn, the supposed weak link of our OL have outplayed Scherrif and Moses so far this season and I believe that Flowers will only get better and better each week as he "learns" the guard position.

 

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Got link to saying he would do great at LG?

 

Most myself included wrote off Flowers at LT.  He was trying new techniques so he was probably looking even worse than he was in his natural technique.  Guards can be sheltered. I was more intrigued to see Penn at LT. Trent is not a grader and we basically haven't been able to power for a yard in his tenure.  I though Penn coupled with another T at guard could provide a bit of a push/form a wall.

 

Don't overlook the pairing /chemistry thing since coaches always preach that ****.  Penn and Flowers have been helped by Case getting rid of the ball not taking senseless sacks (and then fumbling) to avoid throwing into tight coverage/INTs

Edited by RandyHolt
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4 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Got link to saying he would do great at LG?

 

Most myself included wrote off Flowers at LT.  He was trying new techniques so he was probably looking even worse than he was in his natural technique.  Guards can be sheltered. I was more intrigued to see Penn at LT. Trent is not a grader and we basically haven't been able to power for a yard in his tenure.  I though Penn coupled with another T at guard could provide a bit of a push/form a wall.

 

Don't overlook the pairing /chemistry thing since coaches always preach that ****.  Penn and Flowers have been helped by Case getting rid of the ball not taking senseless sacks (and then fumbling) to avoid throwing into tight coverage/INTs

 

Everyone but my buddy Martin & I wrote off Flowers at guard. Martin knows guards. 

 

 

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The Redskins didn't bring Flowers here to play Tackle they brought him here to play Guard, a position he's NEVER PLAYED so when Trent didn't show up they had Flowers playing tackle where everyone knows he's terrible. And many were saying he would be CUT before training camp was over, without giving the man a chance to practice/learn a new position. And he's be pretty good these first two weeks and I believe he'll only get better moving forward.

 

And as far as Trent not being a mauler in the run game, you're terribly mistaken, our failures in the run gam in the past has been no push from the middle of the line with Lavaou.

 

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On 9/10/2019 at 7:01 PM, RandyHolt said:

I hope that one day advanced stats will help coaches figure out which plays are prone for more holding calls e.g. sweeps.   Big long slow developing run plays = more chance for holds, right??

 

Jay has to do something. Toga party. Since we cannot run for **** and cannot avoid penalties he needs to seriously consider going uptempo and gas the D so they cannot come at Moses full speed every play, which I think will lead towards more penalties.

 

I HATE holding penalties on garbage run plays that had NO chance anyways.  Go pass happy - tell the OTs to hold anytime our QB is going to get crushed. Save holds for avoiding turnovers and to keep the QB clean, not to help AP gain half a yard. That half a yard he can gain by jump cutting around the guy Moses thinks he has to hold to get an edge.

They should start fining for holding penalties away from the ball that are flagrant poor concentration and warrant a fine via the coaching staff. They have to do something

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6 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

They should start fining for holding penalties away from the ball that are flagrant poor concentration and warrant a fine via the coaching staff. They have to do something

No kidding I would be fine to see a guy get benched for a series after boneheaded penalties.

 

Maybe Penn and Flowers are holding as much as the right side but are smarter doing it. Penn a crafty old vet haha holding like a champ.  But all OL hold, right?  Of course Moses does himself NO favors complaining about getting caught.  Which probably also puts Brandon under the microscope as well.

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48 minutes ago, skinsOLfan said:

And as far as Trent not being a mauler in the run game, you're terribly mistaken, our failures in the run gam in the past has been no push from the middle of the line with Lavaou.

 

If Trents a mauler we would have run behind him on 3rd and inches for his entire tenure.  SL barely played.

 

Make no mistake he is a badss but he is not cut from the plow the road mold. He's very athletic.

 

I thought Lavauo did great zone run blocking when he was healthy.  He rarely played healthy and barely played period.  His weakness was pass pro vs the bull.  They were both zone > power guys and dominated run blocking under Shanny. 

Edited by RandyHolt

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3 hours ago, skinsOLfan said:

For all of you who wrote Ereck Flowers off and wanted Martin to start how are you feeling now?

Flowers and Penn, the supposed weak link of our OL have outplayed Scherrif and Moses so far this season and I believe that Flowers will only get better and better each week as he "learns" the guard position.

 

Thats...not really true.  PFT grades have been known to be absolute crap for years, and which side of the line gets more YPC is a really lazy way to judge it.

 

Quite simply, on most running plays A. Defenders know we want to run right and so likely stack more defenders there every play, and B. Require us to pull from the other side of line.  Successful runs to the left may simply mean Scherff is doing a great job in the run game, getting across the formation and blocking his man, and poor runs to the right may simply mean Flowers is trash, and everytime he pulls to the right he fails to block his man.  Theres no easy way to throw some stats on that and tell you anything meaningful about which side is doing their job, especially when you have a sample of only 75 yards.

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45 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Theres no easy way to throw some stats on that and tell you anything meaningful about which side is doing their job, especially when you have a sample of only 75 yards.

 

To add to the point about the small sample size: Last week, the Redskins right side of the line had to deal with Lawrence, who is by far Dallas' best DE.  On the other side, both the 1st and 2nd string DEs were out due to suspension.  Comparing the performance of the OL playing against Lawrence vs the performance against the backup to the backup on the other side seems like an unfair evaluation.

Edited by Nerm

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PFF grades through the first two games:

 

Penn - 67.3

Flowers - 61.0

Roullier - 61.9

Scherff - 75.7

Moses - 54.0

 

Flowers and Roullier have been barely average.  Scherff has been good.  Penn has been decent.  Moses has been god awful.

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If true, that sounds fair to me.  He's not Zack Martin and he doesn't deserve to match his salary (14 this year, 15 next year).  The first four seasons of Martin's career were far better than the first four of Scherff's.  But allowing for the fact that he would be signing his deal two years after Martin signed his, 13 feels fair.

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On 9/23/2019 at 4:12 PM, JSSkinz said:

Can't wait to see Moses try to block Mack tonight, that should be interesting.

 

 

O line thus far

 

 

Screen Shot 2019-09-24 at 7.50.24 PM.png

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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On 9/23/2019 at 2:12 PM, JSSkinz said:

 

Good god why? He's terrible. I don't care what they say he grades out, my eyes tells me he sucks.

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Sloppy and substandard. Too many penalties, can't run-block. I wouldn't want Haskins to start behind this O-line, that'll just be another Patrick Ramsey situation, it'll ruin his confidence because he'll constantly be running for his life.

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28 minutes ago, ShoutyBearHead said:

Sloppy and substandard. Too many penalties, can't run-block. I wouldn't want Haskins to start behind this O-line, that'll just be another Patrick Ramsey situation, it'll ruin his confidence because he'll constantly be running for his life.

I wont argue the run blocking needs work but outside of Monday's debacle against a killer defense have we seen case running for his life?...no..I'd say hes pretty much stayed clean

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8 hours ago, Riggodrill44 said:

Good god why? He's terrible. I don't care what they say he grades out, my eyes tells me he sucks.

 

Then your eyes told you dead ass wrong.

3 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

I wont argue the run blocking needs work but outside of Monday's debacle against a killer defense have we seen case running for his life?...no..I'd say hes pretty much stayed clean 

 

Yeah, the line has been average in pass pro more or less.  Moses is the only one playing horribly.  The run game is awful, but the passing game has been surprisingly functional when Case isn't coughing the ball up left and right.

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40 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Then your eyes told you dead ass wrong.

 

Yeah, the line has been average in pass pro more or less.  Moses is the only one playing horribly.  The run game is awful, but the passing game has been surprisingly functional when Case isn't coughing the ball up left and right.

Good points here...again... outside of that Chicago game I thought he has held onto the ball pretty well

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30 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

Good points here...again... outside of that Chicago game I thought he has held onto the ball pretty well

 

The trust and goodwill from playing two clean, decent games gets wiped out when you fumble four times and throw three picks.  Keenum can never play like that again.  We can't have a vet placeholder QB single-handedly lose games for us like he did in that one.

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