The current status of the Redskins o-line.

[Stadium-Armory]

On 8/5/2019 at 8:52 AM, SemperFi Skins said:

Pick up LG Alex Lewis that the Ravens just released. Has an injury bug but just passed his physical and started 10 games last year. Drafted in the 4th round in 2016.

 

He wasn't released. He passed the physical and then (instead of releasing him), the Ravens traded him to the Jets.

[NeverSurrender]

On 8/5/2019 at 12:56 PM, Malapropismic Depository said:

Have heard very little about Piers through camp, which is surprising, because these 2 say Piers is in the lead for the starting LG spot.

 

Training Camp Battles: Who's starting at left guard?

In this Long Fence Training Battle, JP Finlay and Pete Hailey discuss whose stock is rising and falling for the Redskins at left guard

 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/video/training-camp-battles-whos-starting-redskins-left-guard

 

There wrong, he inst strong enough.  He needs a year in the weight room.  Wes Martin will  be the guy. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 hour ago, NeverSurrender said:

There wrong, he inst strong enough.  He needs a year in the weight room.  Wes Martin will  be the guy. 

 

 

That would be a huge credit to both the scouting department and the FO.

If Piers gets beaten out by a fellow rookie who wasn't even invited to the combine, and wasn't even on anyone's draft boards.

I been sayin this, we're definitely getting better at drafting, especially OL.

[JaxJoe]

Sounds like a couple or more Cleveland’s key defensive linemen will not play tonight. Might be a good thing for our new left side to gel a bit. 

 

“Fans will also have to wait to see the new and improved defensive line. The entire starting front four – Myles Garrett (knee), Larry Ogunjobi (groin), Sheldon Richardson (abdomen) and Olivier Vernon (hamstring) – are not expected to play after missing the last two practices with injuries.“

 

https://923thefan.radio.com/articles/cleveland-browns-washington-preseason-preview

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

So I watched the Haskins cutup and here's how the OL (in pass protection) fared with him in there.  Just some general OL units verse # of pass rushers.  What did Haskins face along the line of scrimmage and was his reaction noteworthy?

 

The o-line seems to change throughout this.  Italics indicate who was new to the OL unit.

 

5 man o-line is now:  Penn - Flowers - Bergstrom - Kerrin - Parris

1st play, play action, only 4 Browns "rushing".

2nd play, 4 Browns rushing, a LB has a RB read, if he stays, blitz, if he goes out, cover him.

3rd play, basic zone D with a 4 man rush

5 man o-line is now:  Christian - Flowers - Bergstrom - Kerrin - Parris

4th, (1st Int), 4 man rush, Christian was too slow out of his stance, Flowers got buckled by the DT's punch but the DT also fell, can't tell if Flowers forced the fall or not.

5th, sack...Callahan probably wanted to light himself on fire for this one.  It's a 4 man rush...and the 3 Tech goes unblocked?  Seriously?  How?  Also Perine, cut block, do something.  Only people to actually block the DL were Christian (good rep) and Sprinkle (awkward but it worked)

5 man o-line is now:  Penn - Flowers - Bergstrom - Kerrin - Parris

6th, 4 man rush, IDL execute a twist stunt, leaves a lane open for Haskins and he scrambles for 9.  Penn almost had the block, but not enough punch, Haskins stepped up beautifully.  Parris got flat out worked at RT.

7th, 4 man rush

8th, 1st exotic blitz!  Show weakside A gap pressure by LB, but he along with the weakside Edge drop back into coverage.  The other LB blitzes the B gap.  Perine does enough to pick up the LB.  I feel like RG Kerrin should be doing more, keep his head up to see if stunts/blitzers are coming.  He kind of gets locked into the firs thing he does.  Haskins handles the exotic blitz well.

9th, 6 blitzers shown on the line, but only 5 rush the passer.  Haskins handles it well (I think Volsmet covered this one earlier).

10th, 5 rushers as a LB blitzes the B gap.  Every OL (even Flowers) does their job, but Parris needs to do more.  Does this guy have any punch at all?  He benefited from the TE chipping his guy too.

5 man o-line is now:  Christian - Martin - Bergstrom - Kerrin - Parris

11th, 4 man rush, IDL stunt with each other, no issues

12th, 5 man rush as LB hits the B gap over RG Kerrin immediately.  This was another read-option that Haskins kept for a gain.

13th, 3rd and 2, stacked box, 4 man rush with the rest looking for a run play

14th, 4 man rush, seems like a basic zone, Haskins immediately hits the quick out for a good chunk

15th, 4 man rush.  Haskins slight overthrow on a completely covered Flanagan by the sideline.  Can we get someone whose a bit better than Flanagan to play with Haskins? Nobody else seemed open, so Haskins decision seems fine.

16th, exotic blitz, show 7 blitzers.  But MLB and RE fall back into coverage.  This was the one Haskins spun out of a sack and almost hit Sims along the side of the endzone.

5 man o-line is now:  Penn - Martin - Bergstrom - Kerrin - Parris

17th, 5 guys on the line vs our kind of jumbo package with 2 TE's with hands in the dirt to the right of Parris.  Only 4 rush.  Penn sort of falls on his man.

18th, 2nd sack, stacked box in against 11 personnel.  Protection was slid to the wrong direction.  I think Martin might have been able to recover to pick up one of the blitzers before #22 smacked that guy.  Unclear, but that left a safety on a free run to the QB.  I'm going to guess Haskins thought the extra defender in the box (the safety) was just going to cover the TE instead of blitz.  Not sure if someone could've been the "hot" throw without an audible, the TV cuts off the WR/TE there.

 

Takeaways:

I like that they're switching around the OL.  Well at least on the left side, but they're trying out different OL combo's.

 

Penn might still be a bit out of shape.  Or maybe he's just old.

Christian needs consistency with how he gets out of his stance, he flashes better reps on occasion (imo) than Penn does.

Bergstrom is mediocre.

Kerrin needs to find some nasty.  There are opportunities he can take a pass rusher out of a play, he doesn't, and then that rusher works themselves into the play.  He has other issues, but that's one that sticks out.

Parris is awful.

Martin has a bit more drive power and punch than Flowers.  Flowers seems to just rely on having his huge frame in between the play and his defender.  I'd need to watch more of them to figure out whose better overall.  Didn't see enough of Martin to really tell yet.

 

The cutup I watched included zero running plays, so can't really tell how well Flanagan, Sprinkle, or the OL blocked in that regard.  Or see if Haskins was flipping the run play based on how the DL and Box looked.

[carex]

I wasn't sure whether to put this in the game thread or what so I guess I'll just post it here.

 

The OL didn't look very good last night, but frankly with the guys we played I think more than anything it just we don't have any underdogs making a great case for the team.

 

Here's who I either saw in the game or heard were from announcers

 

LT- Christian, Penn

LG- Flowers, Martin

C- Roullier, Bergstrom, Piersbacher

RG- Kerin, Thornton

RT- Parris, Hance,

 

That's a right side made out of people who aren't going to make the team and a left side of people who are still learning their roies and the team so I think there's plenty of time and potential for improvement

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

8 minutes ago, carex said:

I wasn't sure whether to put this in the game thread or what so I guess I'll just post it here.

 

The OL didn't look very good last night, but frankly with the guys we played I think more than anything it just we don't have any underdogs making a great case for the team.

 

Here's who I either saw in the game or heard were from announcers

 

LT- Christian, Penn

LG- Flowers, Martin

C- Roullier, Bergstrom, Piersbacher

RG- Kerin, Thornton

RT- Parris, Hance,

 

That's a right side made out of people who aren't going to make the team and a left side of people who are still learning their roies and the team so I think there's plenty of time and potential for improvement

 

 

 

I don't think Roullier was in last night.  I think the team views him, along with Scherff and Moses, as a clear cut starter.  If he was in, then he didn't finish the 1st drive.  Check out whose snapping the ball on the Myles Garrett almost sack, that's Bergstrom:

https://streamable.com/0lwta

 

[carex]

11 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I don't think Roullier was in last night.  I think the team views him, along with Scherff and Moses, as a clear cut starter.  If he was in, then he didn't finish the 1st drive.  Check out whose snapping the ball on the Myles Garrett almost sack, that's Bergstrom:

https://streamable.com/0lwta

 

 

you might be right, I didn't see him, just thought someone said he was and figured there was a chance they wanted to work on the C/QB connection some

[JaxJoe]

24 minutes ago, carex said:

The OL didn't look very good last night, but frankly with the guys we played I think more than anything it just we don't have any underdogs making a great case for the team.

The left side is certainly a work-in-progress and I hope it gets fixed. But also, Cleveland had a significant number of 1st stringers going against us. Myles Garret played but the other three of the front four didn’t. They had one starter at MLB and at RCB and both safeties were starters. That’s 5 out of 11 for the first two series, at least, maybe the 1st quarter. 

 

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

 

(EDIT : Sorry I quoted wrong person by mistake, and just deleted the quote)

 

Pretty sure Roullier didn't play, and it was Bergstrom starting and getting most of the game til Piers came in for him.

[TheShredder]

Penn is certainly not in football shape just yet and I'd delay judgement on his abilities until we see him in a few weeks time.  

 

Penn, Martin, Rouillier, Scherff, Moses are likely going to be the best they'll have in 2019.  

 

The bright side of embracing the tank is that they'll need to get in the top 3 for the 2020 draft to get their franchise LT of the future. Additionally, they'll get some draft stock from moving TW (eventually).  They'll have the ability to fill out a roster for the future and turn the page for 2021 if it all plays out well.  I do view 2019 as the final phase of the Jay Gruden era and setting the stage for Kevin O'Connell to setup a brighter looking future.  

[carex]

No tank at all

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[carex]

Trent wouldn't have solved anything last night and wouldn't have played actually

[TheShredder]

1 minute ago, carex said:

Trent wouldn't have solved anything last night and wouldn't have played actually

I forget who said it with stats but TW isn't a game changer....he's really good at this stage vs previously being dominate.  

The Skins don't need TW anymore or any less than they did the last 5-6 yrs.  One guy doesn't make a line.  You need 7 solid guys to who can play together at any given time to be a contender for a season long run.  I really don't think it matters if one or two guys go to the Pro Bowl consistently when the other 5 guys aren't doing their job consistently.  

16 minutes ago, carex said:

No tank at all

To be fair, I'm not saying start the season with tanking. Rather, as they're entering this season and it's shaping up to be quite apparent they're not a contender, then there's a bright side to embracing the tank. 

[RandyHolt]

Did our DL abuse the Browns OL like they did ours?  I like that as a general measuring stick.

 

Our pass pro has been ok during Callahan's tenure but our run blocking has been terrible.  He seems immune from fault and obviously is tight with Jay. What the hell are we nowadays?  Maybe all teams do it, but we seem to try to run power and zone yet excel at neither. All probably because Bruce is an idiot and cannot build an OL.   I will guess Penn is more a power guy vs finesse mobile.  Proper stats and bios for OL are lacking.  Why don't we see pancake counts dammit. OL could log assists on successful double teams. Stunt pickup success rate.

 

Our OL needs a super back to make the run game work.   If our OL still cannot push for a ****ing yard, I sure hope Jay repeatedly goes PAP out of heavy jumbo until defenses back off.  Or, run from spread with our super back.

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Missing Trent Williams ?

We were missing our entire starting O-Line ! Lol

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, TheShredder said:

The Skins don't need TW anymore or any less than they did the last 5-6 yrs.  One guy doesn't make a line. 

 

One guy does not make a line. But a pro bowl caliber LT let’s you leave him on an island and slide protections to the other side to mask other weaker areas. If you can’t do that defenses smell blood and everything gets harder.

[carex]

8 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

One guy does not make a line. But a pro bowl caliber LT let’s you leave him on an island and slide protections to the other side to mask other weaker areas. If you can’t do that defenses smell blood and everything gets harder.

 

Penn when healthy has been Pro Bowl level in the past

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Missing Trent Williams ?

We were missing our entire starting O-Line ! Lol

 

For the Keenum snaps yes.  But I gather the Penn, Martin combination when Haskins was in might end up the real deal during the season.  I am not in a panic based on that game.  But I've been saying (and am far from alone on this) during the off season the O line depth might be this team's weakness and considering the recent past the odds that the depth will be tested is really good.  Having said that, if Trent comes back I'd feel much better about it since Penn would be a legit backup.  

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

12 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

One guy does not make a line. But a pro bowl caliber LT let’s you leave him on an island and slide protections to the other side to mask other weaker areas. If you can’t do that defenses smell blood and everything gets harder.

Sometimes i get so aggravated on here reading the responses and then every now and then someone says something so perfect it keeps me sticking around.

 

 

    Not kissing your ass cause you are a mod either.😆

[MartinC]

6 hours ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

 

    Not kissing your ass cause you are a mod either.😆

 

No one does. This was not what I was sold when I took the job 🙂

10 hours ago, carex said:

 

Penn when healthy has been Pro Bowl level in the past

 

So has Joe Jacoby.

[carex]

21 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

No one does. This was not what I was sold when I took the job 🙂

 

So has Joe Jacoby.

 

well Penn's was in 2017.

 

He actually made last year but with his injury that was more a name thing I think. 

[MartinC]

2 minutes ago, carex said:

 

well Penn's was in 2017.

 

He actually made last year but with his injury that was more a name thing I think. 

 

I have to hold my hands up - I had no idea Penn had made the Pro Bowl as recently as that. I’m not sure if that says more about the Pro Bowl or Penn mind you.

 

i do think Penn will be fine if he can stay healthy. But we’ve been spoiled watching Williams for years - his athletic ability to get in space ahead of outside runs, screens etc will be missed if nothing else. 

[carex]

12 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

I have to hold my hands up - I had no idea Penn had made the Pro Bowl as recently as that. I’m not sure if that says more about the Pro Bowl or Penn mind you.

 

i do think Penn will be fine if he can stay healthy. But we’ve been spoiled watching Williams for years - his athletic ability to get in space ahead of outside runs, screens etc will be missed if nothing else. 

 

well thank you.  I actually looke it up and only made one Pro Bowl when he was younger in 2010, then he made it in 16 and 17 as a starter,