!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

 

True, but IF (a big fat if) he somehow uses the time off to heal up, that contract at age 33 in full health may be for more than it would be after limping through the next 2 years.

 

2 years of never giving his body enough time to heal from thumb knee head and rib injuries from last year, piled on top of whatever new injuries happen. Here is the kicker, new injuries overseen by what may be the worst medical team in the league.

 

Getting far far away from a shoddy doctor is not always a losing proposition. 

 

No way...the NFL churns through players, even great ones. The reason it's so popular is because it's not dependent on players as much as teams. If Trent Williams sat out his age 31 and 32 seasons, he'd be signed for a very small, show-me contract (almost the way we signed Gallette or AP) by someone. 

 

That would be two seasons of new LTs entering the league and existing LTs developing and improving. 

[PartyPosse]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Throw medical staff concerns into the wind for a minute...

 

The way I'm reading Trent's contract is that while yes - he's under a contract for 2 more seasons, the 2020 season has virtually no guarantees.  Meaning if he was to get injured this season or whatever else, the Skins could walk away from his deal and cut him loose in 2020.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong on that, but it appears the guarantees get paid out for the 2019 season, leaving none or very little left for 2020.

 

Basically, without a new contract, he's playing a lame duck season at left tackle, for a team he was drafted by and played nice with, through many more downs than ups.  Why again are folks here surprised by the fact that he wants a new deal?  I gather most of the folks vehement about the contract being in black and white, and him being an a-hole, merely cannot separate pro football from their everyday joe jobs and how its entirely apples to oranges.

The dude collected 41 million in Guaranteed money already plus he still gets 12 million a year if he plays providing he’s not cut which, last I checked, the team had no intention of doing. It goes both ways. He signed a contract in which he was guaranteed a large portion of the money providing he play out the duration of his contract. He collected the money and now decides he doesn’t want to play out the duration of said contract unless he gets MORE guaranteed money.

 

Why even sign contracts at this point?

[hailmary]

53 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

That is rumor. No one has confirmed that. The only public statements made are: 

 

Jay - talked about he knows there is some problem with the medical staff and the FO is working with Trent to get things resolved. But that he would not have been able to practice anyway. 

 

Bruce - I talked to Trent and know the truth. I will leave that conversation between him and I. 

 

Adrian Peterson - When asked about Trent's supposed ultimatum, he said "That's funny. Trent and i talk almost every day and he has never said anything like that to me. 

 

Everything is rumors. Literally everything else. Is there some truth in the rumors? Most likely But until we know what they are it's all conjecture.  But again, you cannot say at this point that Trent has said anything. 

I agree with most except, Trent spoke LOUD & CLEAR when he was a no show @ mini camp

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

22 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

The dude collected 41 million in Guaranteed money already plus he still gets 12 million a year if he plays providing he’s not cut which, last I checked, the team had no intention of doing. It goes both ways. He signed a contract in which he was guaranteed a large portion of the money providing he play out the duration of his contract. He collected the money and now decides he doesn’t want to play out the duration of said contract unless he gets MORE guaranteed money.

 

Why even sign contracts at this point?

The bolded part is key here.  It would appear they have no intention of doing that because they have no other options.  However, if they had a cheaper option or Trent got hurt badly in 2019 - they absolutely would cut him.

 

Trent is not navigating uncharted territory here.  He's not breaking any new ground.  Typically top tier players exercise their leverage if they have to, to get more guaranteed money.

 

Whether or not he's worth getting more guaranteed money is another conversation.  But what he's doing is nothing new and shouldn't come as a shock to anyone.  There is absolutely no way the Redskins were blind-sided by this and had to have known for some time now that there was blood in the water.  it only just came to light because he didn't show up at a mini-camp that he couldn't practice in anyways.

[RandyHolt]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

Agreed. When Randy broke out the Kirk and top tier player in the same sentence he lost all credibility. 

 

LOL.  I thought we were talking about significant amounts of guaranteed money, not guaranteed skills.  To be clear I meant in terms of salary tier. Who gives a rats ass if a 3x3M salary is guaranteed. We are talking big money contracts.

 

With Tom Brady no where near the highest compensated QB, that says all one needs to know when trying to lump salary and skill into the same meaning. Your beloved Kirk was the 5th highest compensated QB last year, not bad for being no where near a top tier QB. Not bad at all.

[goskins10]

3 minutes ago, hailmary said:

I agree with most except, Trent spoke LOUD & CLEAR when he was a no show @ mini camp

 

Not necessarily. He cannot practice anyway, which is one of the tings we know for a fact. It's possible that he talked to the team before and they agreed he did not need to come. Again, we do not know all the inside facts yet. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I've seen Alex Smith's name brought up in this conversation several times, but more about how his injury and contract have crippled the cap.  To help put things in perspective, think about it like this...

 

Imagine if Alex Smith wouldn't have demanded a long term extension upon his trade last season.  Imagine he just came to Washington with 1 year of guaranteed money left on his deal and played the "we'll work it out later" game with the FO.  Then he suffers the injury he did.

 

Sure, as a member of the Skins FO or a fan, in a morbid way you'd be pleased, because the cap isn't tied up on a player that can't play.  But if you're Alex Smith, you've played your last down as a pro and collected your last decent paycheck.

 

Alex Smith's situation is an ideal example of why players utilize their leverage when they have it to get the most they possibly can.

 

Many refuse to see things from another perspective and try to make comparisons between NFL contracts & the real world most of us live in, when it's entirely apples to oranges.

[@DCGoldPants]

Scanned a few pages in this thread, checked twitter. Cause the end of something on 980 where they talked about leaking medical info.

 

Unclear if some kind of NEW info came out today. What did I miss?

[Unbias]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

That is rumor. No one has confirmed that. The only public statements made are: 

 

Jay - talked about he knows there is some problem with the medical staff and the FO is working with Trent to get things resolved. But that he would not have been able to practice anyway. 

 

Bruce - I talked to Trent and know the truth. I will leave that conversation between him and I. 

 

Adrian Peterson - When asked about Trent's supposed ultimatum, he said "That's funny. Trent and i talk almost every day and he has never said anything like that to me. 

 

Everything is rumors. Literally everything else. Is there some truth in the rumors? Most likely But until we know what they are it's all conjecture.  But again, you cannot say at this point that Trent has said anything. 

 

Here's the La Canfora report:

 

 

 

You can argue that La Canfora has been wrong in the past or that you don't like what he's saying, but it's still a report. He's an NFL insider who has sources that often turn out to be right. 

 

 

If you are saying Trent hasn't confirmed that report yet then wouldn't the natural argument be that he hasn't said it's untrue either? 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, Unbias said:

 

Here's the La Canfora report:

 

 

 

You can argue that La Canfora has been wrong in the past or that you don't like what he's saying, but it's still a report. He's an NFL insider who has sources that often turn out to be right. 

LaCanfora also cites "numerous sources" none of them being, Trent himself.

 

 

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, Unbias said:

 

Here's the La Canfora report:

 

 

 

You can argue that La Canfora has been wrong in the past or that you don't like what he's saying, but it's still a report. He's an NFL insider who has sources that often turn out to be right. 

 

I saw this too just like everyone else. Nothing there is a verifiable fact. It's still just hearsay. Until Trent or the team says something specific, it's just noise. And I would say that about any reporter. It's not so much that the get it wrong, or make it up, many times they are not even told the entire truth. 

 

Is there some truth to it? Of course. And you are free to believe it as fact. You may end up being right. But I choose to wait until I hear from one of the two people actually involved, not those who are on the outside looking in. 

[Unbias]

18 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

LaCanfora also cites "numerous sources" none of them being, Trent himself.

 

 

I'm curious, how do you know Trent isn't a source? The right to source confidentiality is protected by law, so him not directly naming Trent as a source means nothing. 

 

Maybe let's focus on Trent's actions: He's been very silence amid many relationship damaging rumors/reports and is not at mandatory camp. We can debate the 'why' this is happening, but I'm sure we can all agree that it isn't good. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

10 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I've seen Alex Smith's name brought up in this conversation several times, but more about how his injury and contract have crippled the cap.  To help put things in perspective, think about it like this...

 

Imagine if Alex Smith wouldn't have demanded a long term extension upon his trade last season.  Imagine he just came to Washington with 1 year of guaranteed money left on his deal and played the "we'll work it out later" game with the FO.  Then he suffers the injury he did.

 

Sure, as a member of the Skins FO or a fan, in a morbid way you'd be pleased, because the cap isn't tied up on a player that can't play.  But if you're Alex Smith, you've played your last down as a pro and collected your last decent paycheck.

 

Alex Smith's situation is an ideal example of why players utilize their leverage when they have it to get the most they possibly can.

 

Many refuse to see things from another perspective and try to make comparisons between NFL contracts & the real world most of us live in, when it's entirely apples to oranges.

 

Nothing you posted is incorrect and I don't think anyone is claiming that Trent "can't" do this. But, just as he's allowed to do it, fans are within their right to be annoyed by it. It annoys me because he's a team captain, has been paid well, and is playing worse than he was in his prime. As someone whose #1 priority is for the team to be good on the field, it's a bad situation. Either the Redskins pay him more (bad long term) or risk him holding out (bad short term). 

 

Players can pull whatever levers they want to, but we are also allowed to be annoyed by it.  

[Unbias]

13 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I saw this too just like everyone else. Nothing there is a verifiable fact. It's still just hearsay. Until Trent or the team says something specific, it's just noise. And I would say that about any reporter. It's not so much that the get it wrong, or make it up, many times they are not even told the entire truth. 

 

Is there some truth to it? Of course. And you are free to believe it as fact. You may end up being right. But I choose to wait until I hear from one of the two people actually involved, not those who are on the outside looking in. 

 

I do feel we live in a society that values the velocity of information over accuracy, so your comments are warranted. With that being said some NFL insiders, whom I consider La Canfora to be one of them, are not hot take machines. They do have a large component of journalism to what they do and should not be considered the same as some random twitter egg that references 'sources'.

 

I'm focusing on actions - if Trent isn't saying anything I'm wondering why not? There are some fairly damning accusations out there. If he wanted to move forward with the Redskins wouldn't he or a member of his social media team try to adjust the narrative? Add in that he's a no-show and Trent's actions (or silence) play into the La Canfora report. 

[@DCGoldPants]

it is weird he publicly recruited AP to stay in Washington this spring.

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, Unbias said:

 

I do feel we live in a society that values the velocity of information over accuracy, so your comments are warranted. With that being said some NFL insiders, whom I consider La Canfora to be one of them, are not hot take machines. They do have a large component of journalism to what they do and should not be considered the same as some random twitter egg that references 'sources'.

 

I'm focusing on actions - if Trent isn't saying anything I'm wondering why not? There are some fairly damning accusations out there. If he wanted to move forward with the Redskins wouldn't he or a member of his social media team try to adjust the narrative? Add in that he's a no-show and Trent's actions (or silence) play into the La Canfora report. 

 

Sorry, I disagree with your conclusions. First, I will admit to a definite negative bias to anything twitter. I honestly believe it will be the downfall of us all. Ok, that was a bit overly dramatic, But I do hate twitter, Facebook and all that social media garbage. I mean what is Instagram and why is it necessary? It's bad enough people feel compelled to tell us their every thought (even more sad so many people give a ****), now they have to show us pictures of themselves? Sorry if anyone makes a living that way. I am too old to matter to your revenue. So no fear. Ok, social media rant by the old guy over, for now   🙂  

 

As for Lacanfora, I disagree based on his history but let's put that aside for now. I said I was willing to agree that some level of what he said is true. But i will not ever believe anyone who cannot give me verifiable facts. His "reliable sources" mean nothing to me. Again, I feel that way about all journalists. Not saying he is lying or that I know for sure he is wrong. I do not. But I am not willing to accept his "report" as fact until i can get some verification. Sorry the engineer in my keeps saying Show me, don't just tell me. 

 

Why isn't the team saying anything? Why is it on Trent? Maybe he has been wanting it to play out privately all along and some **** head decided to leak it and both he and the team are pissed. There are competing reports today that they are getting close to a resolution. And that trent is not as unhappy as he once was. I believe that just much - or little - as I believe Lacanfora. 

 

When Trent and/or the team say something, then I will believe it. Until then, for me it's all just noise.

[JSSkinz]

33 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I've seen Alex Smith's name brought up in this conversation several times, but more about how his injury and contract have crippled the cap.  To help put things in perspective, think about it like this...

 

Imagine if Alex Smith wouldn't have demanded a long term extension upon his trade last season.  Imagine he just came to Washington with 1 year of guaranteed money left on his deal and played the "we'll work it out later" game with the FO.  Then he suffers the injury he did.

 

Sure, as a member of the Skins FO or a fan, in a morbid way you'd be pleased, because the cap isn't tied up on a player that can't play.  But if you're Alex Smith, you've played your last down as a pro and collected your last decent paycheck.

 

Alex Smith's situation is an ideal example of why players utilize their leverage when they have it to get the most they possibly can.

 

Many refuse to see things from another perspective and try to make comparisons between NFL contracts & the real world most of us live in, when it's entirely apples to oranges.

I'm pretty sure Smith had 1 year left on his deal that paid him $19M, its a big difference going to camp in your contract year as opposed to having 2 years left.

 

If you have a quality player in the final year of his contract you expect he will want an extension before he starts training camp, unless he wants out.

 

 

[hailmary]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

Not necessarily. He cannot practice anyway, which is one of the tings we know for a fact. It's possible that he talked to the team before and they agreed he did not need to come. Again, we do not know all the inside facts yet. 

If the team agreed for Trent to miss mini camp someone in the organization would have said such, I don't believe for a split second that's accurate! If you want to think that's accurate go ahead! 

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The bolded part is key here.  It would appear they have no intention of doing that because they have no other options.  However, if they had a cheaper option or Trent got hurt badly in 2019 - they absolutely would cut him.

Up until he created a stink, there was absolutely no thought in the world he would be cut. None. Zero. Dude is still an elite LT.

 

Even if he does get hurt or they cut him, guess what? He walked away with 56 million dollars over four years. Also, if he is injured and misses the average number of games he’s missed (which is 4+ over the last 3 years), if he misses that same number then he essentially missed a year’s worth of games. So by that count he’s gonna end up with 56 million for 3 years or an average of over 19 million per. If he gets cut after the 2019 season he should thank his lucky stars he earned so much.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

55 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Nothing you posted is incorrect and I don't think anyone is claiming that Trent "can't" do this. But, just as he's allowed to do it, fans are within their right to be annoyed by it. It annoys me because he's a team captain, has been paid well, and is playing worse than he was in his prime. As someone whose #1 priority is for the team to be good on the field, it's a bad situation. Either the Redskins pay him more (bad long term) or risk him holding out (bad short term). 

 

Players can pull whatever levers they want to, but we are also allowed to be annoyed by it.  

There is a difference between being annoyed by it vs. making all sorts of claims that Trent is blah blah blah and the team has a valid grievance.

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, hailmary said:

If the team agreed for Trent to miss mini camp someone in the organization would have said such, I don't believe for a split second that's accurate! If you want to think that's accurate go ahead! 

 

Never said that was a fact. Never even said I believed that. I said it's possible. And until we know the facts - it is just that, possible. Nothing more, nothing less. My whole point here is we don't know what we don't know. I have said what I think of some of the possible outcomes and it clearly is opposite of yours. But that does not mean every possibility I state is an absolute fact. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

27 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I'm pretty sure Smith had 1 year left on his deal that paid him $19M, its a big difference going to camp in your contract year as opposed to having 2 years left.

 

If you have a quality player in the final year of his contract you expect he will want an extension before he starts training camp, unless he wants out.

 

 

1 year left of guaranteed money.  Trent has 2 years left, one of which is guaranteed money.  Different contract structure, same scenario from a guaranteed standpoint.

[hailmary]

looks like he was happy when he signed that contract even saying he would be a redskin 4life...........................?

Trent Williams‏Verified account @TrentW71

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Happy to announce I will be a redskin for the next 5 years. This is a dream come true HTTR 4 Life. #sbg

 

 12:47 PM - 29 Aug 2015

 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

There is a difference between being annoyed by it vs. making all sorts of claims that Trent is blah blah blah and the team has a valid grievance.

 

It's a sliding scale, in my opinion. It annoys me and pisses me off. It's not ruining my day, but when I put my Redskin Fan hat on, it's annoying. A guy who's in decline, has made 10s of millions, and is a team captain is suddenly being a pain in the ass for more money. I don't like it. 

 

I can call him things...I think he's being a bad leader and is being selfish. I can also acknowledge that he's within his right to do this. So, go for it, but you don't get to have your cake and eat it too. If he wants to play this card, he needs to understand that fans will be annoyed and think things about him. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

15 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Up until he created a stink, there was absolutely no thought in the world he would be cut. None. Zero. Dude is still an elite LT.

 

Even if he does get hurt or they cut him, guess what? He walked away with 56 million dollars over four years. Also, if he is injured and misses the average number of games he’s missed (which is 4+ over the last 3 years), if he misses that same number then he essentially missed a year’s worth of games. So by that count he’s gonna end up with 56 million for 3 years or an average of over 19 million per. If he gets cut after the 2019 season he should thank his lucky stars he earned so much.

I wasn’t aware you were privy to what the FO and Trent and his agent are thinking in regard to his contract.  Either that or a lot of assuming on your part.

 

Fact of the matter is, if the contract stays as put - the Skins have an out if he gets injured or falls off a cliff in 2019 because 2020 isn’t guaranteed.  Trent doesn’t like that out and believes his resume will get him the guarantees he desires here or elsewhere.

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

It's a sliding scale, in my opinion. It annoys me and pisses me off. It's not ruining my day, but when I put my Redskin Fan hat on, it's annoying. A guy who's in decline, has made 10s of millions, and is a team captain is suddenly being a pain in the ass for more money. I don't like it. 

 

I can call him things...I think he's being a bad leader and is being selfish. I can also acknowledge that he's within his right to do this. So, go for it, but you don't get to have your cake and eat it too. If he wants to play this card, he needs to understand that fans will be annoyed and think things about him. 

Fans think and act like fans all the time, throwing rationale and logic out the window in contract scenarios because they don’t like the reality of a situation.  I’m pretty sure he’s more than aware of that given all he’s seen and heard since he was drafted here.