Owls0325

Prehistoric development with new speculation: Trent Williams wants to be traded/released

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15 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I am not sure I disagree with Dan here.  It’s been 9 years of Bruce and 5 years of Jay and Bruce and absolutely “meh” results.  So finally saying “ok go win now” doesn’t seem out of line.

 

...This whole “close” thing is going to backfire on him. Which I guess I’m fine with because I want him gone.  But it does effect his judgement for this year. 

 

My point though isn't whether Dan is right to give Jay-Bruce a one year or else verdict.  And that's of course speculation and a feeling from people covering the team versus us knowing its a fact.   I wonder about Bruce at the moment on that front with his recent statment that the stadium announcement is likely a year away.

 

You seemed more focused on Jay as the problem, though I gather you don't like Bruce either.  I think it's mostly on Bruce.  We probably both agree that Dan is the biggest problem but alas nothing can be done about that.    But I got no problem with Jay or anyone else (save Kyle Smith) to be collateral damage for the quest of getting a real personnel guy actually in charge of personnel.

 

My point though specifically in this context is that it would be up to Dan to have the vision and understand what we are saying here which is Bruce-Jay might not be the most objective advisors at the moment because of their job status.  Dan should be smart enough to figure that out.  Is he though?  I wonder.  He also might be smart enough but not have the emotional fortitude to get weaker now for the premise of getting stronger later.  It doesn't seem how Dan rolls.  And even the people who are close to him who like him have admitted that Dan is a VERY emotional dude.

 

 

22 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Back in 1975, the Redskins traded 2 1sts and a 2nd to the Cardinals for a rugged 26YO DT named Dave Butz.  I’ll let you sift through Pro Football Reference to figure out how that worked out for the Cardinals.

 

We'd go in circles though if we debated trades via examples.  The Cowboys got a bountiful picks for H. Walker how did that rebuild work out for them?  We gave 3 first round picks and a 2nd for RG3 how did that work out for us, etc?  How is that Browns overhaul working out for them? You got failures and success examples in just about everything. 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

I am afraid after another ho hum season Bruce will convince Dan the issue was Jay and a that they are just a new coaching scheme away from winning. Especially now that they have a young up and coming QB 

(Pssst. He might not be entirely wrong.  Let’s see how the season goes, and particularly the play calling on first down. That will tell you everything you need to know about they coaching.) 

 

I said after the 2017 season Bruce was here until 2022.

 

It was clear then Kirk wasn’t coming back after 207.

 

I figured 2018 was going to finally be the year they let Colt try and fail. Got that part wrong but ended up in the same spot.

 

2019 they would draft a new QB.

 

2020 they would get a new coach for the new QB

 

2 years with the new coach/QB combo.

 

I don’t see any reason to think that can’t stull happen unless they go 4-12 and Dan finally loses patience. 

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Me:  Tunsil and Trent aren’t a good comparison because of age, injury history and upside.

@Skinsinparadise (whom I think very highly of, btw):  Yes they are because of Pro Bowls 7 years ago.

Me:  Maybe let’s compare Tunsil to the Dave Butz trade?  Same age, similar position, identical package of #1s and #2s.

SIP:  But what about Herschel Walker?

 

:pint:

Edited by TryTheBeal!
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12 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

(Pssst. He might not be entirely wrong.  Let’s see how the season goes, and particularly the play calling on first down. That will tell you everything you need to know about they coaching.) 

 

I said after the 2017 season Bruce was here until 2022.

 

It was clear then Kirk wasn’t coming back after 207.

 

I figured 2018 was going to finally be the year they let Colt try and fail. Got that part wrong but ended up in the same spot.

 

2019 they would draft a new QB.

 

2020 they would get a new coach for the new QB

 

2 years with the new coach/QB combo.

 

I don’t see any reason to think that can’t stull happen unless they go 4-12 and Dan finally loses patience. 

I will always question how much say Jay really has with personnel. Yes I will always blame Jay for Colt kicking around but I mean other roster spots.

My prediction is Bruce will throw Jay under the bus by game 12 of the season.

Wishes are Bruce is gone by game 12

Edited by DWinzit

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7 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Me:  Tunsil and Trent aren’t a good comparison because of age, injury history and upside.

@Skinsinparadise (whom I think very highly of, btw):  Yes they are because of Pro Bowls 7 years ago.

Me:  Maybe let’s compare Tunsil to the Dave Butz trade?  Same age, similar position, identical package of #1s and #2s.

SIP:  But what about Herschel Walker?

 

:pint:

 

The point is your could find good and bad trade examples that are comparable in either situation. But a trade from almost 50 years ago means little to football in 2019. 

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11 hours ago, nonniey said:

A 31 year old Trent is more valuable than a 32 year old Trent.

 

It was widely reported that the Texans had contacted the Skins and were rebuffed.  Admittedly the reports could have been wrong.

Be nice to know what the offer was...we don't know if a 1st was involved in that offer. Like I said, the way TW has stayed silent and how he's handling his current contract is NOT attractive to a club. Bruce should turn to TW and say go make a deal that involves a #1 and #2 yourself and EXPLAIN yourself instead of relying on Bruce.

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1 hour ago, skinzplay said:

That Dolphins FO is a convoluted mess. They can tank all the want, but Dolphins fans shouldn't expect the current FO to be able to do anything with the draft resources they ultimately acquire. I wouldn't trust that FO for a single, solitary second with the task of building a team

 

Agree. You can have all the draft capital in the world but it's no good to you if you piss it all up against a wall. 

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8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

You seemed more focused on Jay as the problem, though I gather you don't like Bruce either.  I think it's mostly on Bruce.  We probably both agree that Dan is the biggest problem but alas nothing can be done about that.    But I got no problem with Jay or anyone else (save Kyle Smith) to be collateral damage for the quest of getting a real personnel guy actually in charge of personnel.

Jay HAS BEEN a problem, and a big problem.  Bruce HAS BEEN a problem, and a big problem.  Both can be true and neither are mutually exclusive.  

 

Though the post you quoted really didn’t suggest in any way which I see as more of the problem.  I said the “close thing” was going to backfire on Bruce. I don’t know where you got the judgement I see Jay as more of the problem.  

 

I want Bruce gone as much as anybody.  He’s just a dark cloud.  Though they have done a good job drafting and they’ve done a good job being fiscally responsible.  However the handling of the QB situation is, by itself, a fire-able offense.  And the free agency stuff has been “meh.”  

 

I could see Bruce convincing  Dan to let him try with another coach. While I would hate that, depending on how the season goes, Bruce could make the argument the coaching staff has not maximized the talent it was given.  And he might not be entirely wrong. Having said that, I’m not sure who Bruce could hire who would plow him to have the same type of authority better than Jay.  Maybe a Kevin O’Connell promotion? But that’s about it.  Otherwise any coach with credentials would tell Bruce to shove it.  (Btw, I think Jay should also. And I’d respect him a lot for that)  

 

I could also see Dan chucking them all out. 

 

The one scenario which doesn’t seem likely is Bruce gone, Jay stays.  Unless they promote internally (Kyle Smith or Eric Schaffer) to GM and they want to give it a go with Jay.  Which I guess could happen... I just don’t see it as likely.  I kinda see it if Dan nukes the whole thing, he’ll find an outside GM to come in. 

 

But this isn't a Jay thread.  In fact, we don’t even have a Jay thread at the moment.  

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29 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I agree. I am aware of the win now delirium.

I fixed it for you SIP.

I am afraid after another ho hum season Bruce will convince Dan the issue was Jay and a that they are just a new coaching scheme away from winning. Especially now that they have a young up and coming QB 

 

I think Gruden is already on a promise to be here in 2020 and see his contract out with a full year of Haskins at the helm next season. Our reset may coincide with the new CBA/potential lock out season.

 

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What if the Redskins are playing 4d Chess and simply hanging on to Trent until mid season when a playoff contender loses their starting LT and then we can call the shots like the masterminds we are...  . . . Hold on one sec

 

giphy.gif

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2 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

I see all this bickering and fighting in here...it makes me think of two fans of the same team duking it out in the stands..I dont get it..everyone can have there own opinions and feelings..I dont understand the fighting, we're all here for one thing...you know it..I know it..its to cheer on the Redskins....being a fan of our favorite football team..no matter how you want it this way or I want it that way theres nothing none of us can do about it..

 

I've never understood the whole arguing on the internet thing.

I dont even like to have conversations with people unless it's in person..facial expressions and tone of voice go along way.

It helps when people don't start a response with "That's Dumb", That's Stupid"..etc. No need for that..people may be wrong in the mind of the reply-er but denigrating people's opinion starts most of this crap..

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11 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Why am I not surprised that those that live in an alternative universe are reaching tremendously to make Tunsil a god and Trent chop liver?

Does it make me less of a fan of the game i have no ****ing clue who TUNSIL is or why everyone is discussing Miami ?! Seriously , Mods, just change my rank to 3rd string QB cause i have no clue whats going on

Edited by JoeJacobyHOForRIOT

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If Haskins becomes elite the next 15 years will be fun. 

 

If Haskins is average or a bust the Skins will remain an average to below franchise. 

 

 

@Skinsinparadise

Your tanking idea is done, the Skins got a QB. This is the only reason a team would do this (I’ve not known any NFL franchise to do so though). 

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41 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Does it make me less of a fan of the game i have no ****ing clue who TUNSIL is or why everyone is discussing Miami ?! Seriously , Mods, just change my rank to 3rd string QB cause i have no clue whats going on

 

You're already on the internet, Google is just a click away. It's all pretty relevant to what's going on here with Trent. 

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39 minutes ago, wit33 said:

tanking idea is done, the Skins got a QB. This is the only reason a team would do this (I’ve not known any NFL franchise to do so though). 

 

Huh? The Browns just did it and the Dolphins are currently doing it.

 

"Tanking" isn't about throwing games and purposely losing on gameday for higher draft position. In fact the coaches and players on the roster are still doing their best to save their jobs, as hamstrung as they are. "Tanking" happens at a higher level in the organization, and they might not even call it that in private--but it involves stockpiling draft resources and youth, shedding vets who won't be there when the rebuild is over, and trying through roster costruction and trades (again, not through gameday decisions) to have a young roster that won't win games until it all comes together with a young QB, to ensure the most and highest draft picks possible while accumulating young talent. This happens in every sport. 

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Seems to me like the Texans wanted Tunsil first and foremost. Trent may have been the fallback, who knows. No chance the Texans offer that haul to us. If they did, Trent would be gone.

 

Trent may have another preferred destination. Something still not quite adding up on this. 

 

As an aside,  I think we are doing a good job of accumulating young talent. We do need a couple more day 1/2 picks in 2020 though to continue that process.

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Trent won't blink, BA is a stubborn egomaniac clown. Texans gave up 2 firsts and a second forTunsil and Stills, wondering how much we lost for Trent ? :rolleyes:

Besides that he's from Texas.

Edited by FrFan

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55 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

Huh? The Browns just did it and the Dolphins are currently doing it.

 

"Tanking" isn't about throwing games and purposely losing on gameday for higher draft position. In fact the coaches and players on the roster are still doing their best to save their jobs, as hamstrung as they are. "Tanking" happens at a higher level in the organization, and they might not even call it that in private--but it involves stockpiling draft resources and youth, shedding vets who won't be there when the rebuild is over, and trying through roster costruction and trades (again, not through gameday decisions) to have a young roster that won't win games until it all comes together with a young QB, to ensure the most and highest draft picks possible while accumulating young talent. This happens in every sport. 

 

Nevertheless, the Dolphins are in fact tanking.

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10 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

 

11 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Seems to me like the Texans wanted Tunsil first and foremost. Trent may have been the fallback, who knows. No chance the Texans offer that haul to us. If they did, Trent would be gone.

Before the trade was announced, would you think that the Texans would've given up two firsts and a second for tunsil and stills.  No way!  So it's hard to gauge what the Texans would've given up for Trent.  They probably would've overpaid, bc they definitely overpaid in their deal with the dolphins.  And who's to say they preferred tunsil over Trent, it could've been them panicking to fill the LT void after trent wasn't made available and they felt tunsil was their only option, and they reached.  It's all speculation at this point.

 

And whatever reason Trent is still a skin, whether it be bc Houston didn't want to deal with Allen, or that Allen refused to listed to offers, it would be nice for the Redskins to be the team that pounces when another team is desparate.  But instead we are sitting on our hands, bypassing what could've been an incredible haul, bc of the arrogance of an obviously poor gm feels there is a better option.

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9 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Seems to me like the Texans wanted Tunsil first and foremost. Trent may have been the fallback, who knows. No chance the Texans offer that haul to us. If they did, Trent would be gone.

 

Trent may have another preferred destination. Something still not quite adding up on this. 

 

As an aside,  I think we are doing a good job of accumulating young talent. We do need a couple more day 1/2 picks in 2020 though to continue that process.

Problem is we will only keep the young talent for the first 4-5 years of their career.  I expect to lose Scherf next year.

Edited by nonniey
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46 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Nevertheless, the Dolphins are in fact tanking.

 

That's what I said.

 

The other guy had posted that he's never seen an NFL team "tank", but I think it's because he doesn't really understand what people mean when they say tanking.

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It's too late to trade Trent, Bruce was serious.  If the possibility of Houston offering two first rounder wasnt enough, we arent holding out for a better deal.  This is a perception versus pride issue with Trent stuck because Bruce doesnt have to do anything and hes acting like it.

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2 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

@Skinsinparadise

Your tanking idea is done, the Skins got a QB. This is the only reason a team would do this (I’ve not known any NFL franchise to do so though). 

 

Am presuming this is a joke or if not sorry am missing what this means?

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