Owls0325

Prehistoric development with new speculation: Trent Williams wants to be traded/released

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39 minutes ago, TK said:

A Pats first is basically an early 2nd round pick. 

Agreed...but a first round pick still offers a player with a 5th year option.  I would be all over that trade unless there is a good chance someone else would offer a first.

 

I would be ecstatic if we could pull Trevon Diggs and Jerry Jeudy in the first round

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Poindexter said:

Agreed...but a first round pick still offers a player with a 5th year option.  I would be all over that trade unless there is a good chance someone else would offer a first.

 

I would be ecstatic if we could pull Trevon Diggs and Jerry Jeudy in the first round

 

 

 

A truly sponge worthy draft.

*

A late round 1 could net us Collin Johnson, WR, Texas. As the old adage goes, a Johnson in the bush, is worth two in the hand. 

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I don't believe that report at all. If the Pats offered Bruce a low first (being a high second), he'd have taken it. We need to concentrate on OL in next years draft, and a decent player added anywhere in that margin would help a lot. Trent's not coming back, so someone is better than no one to fill the gap.

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Just now, BleedBNG said:

I don't believe that report at all. If the Pats offered Bruce a low first (being a high second), he'd have taken it. We need to concentrate on OL in next years draft, and a decent player added anywhere in that margin would help a lot. Trent's not coming back, so someone is better than no one to fill the gap.

 

We’ve been had by JP Finlay once again. 

 

 

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Just now, Malapropismic Depository said:

So, which of the teams would net us the highest 1st round pick in 2020 ?

 

Can't go wrong with a Florida team ; there's a good chance they'll each be picking early next year :

Miami, JAX, Tampa.

 

I’d go Tampa. Jags should be fine, TB has no D line & may start two rookie CBs, & Miami will probably be demoted to the xfl.

 

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2 hours ago, CTskin said:

 

I agree that Jay is on the hot seat, but I'm not anywhere near as sure that Bruce is as well. If Bruce is as deep in Snyder's good graces as it appears, he won't have to worry this season. 

 

If you are correct then yes, I'd be more worried about how this situation will play out. If we turned down a Pats 1st and ended up taking the rumored trade of TW for Clowney, I would be disgusted.

At some point Dan is going to run out of patience.  I'm absolutely shocked it hasn't happened already.  Bruce keeps saying, "We're close."

 

Bruce could have really saved his job by blowing the whole thing up, cutting Alex, trading Trent and Kerrigan, and started a whole re-build in January.  That was an option.  

 

Instead he convinced Dan that they were close, and to stay the course.  They traded for Case Keenum, a "capable" QB, and believe they have the defense and personnel at least to contend for the playoffs.

 

If this turns into an epic fail of a season, 4-12 or there abouts, Dan HAS to ask Bruce what happened.  And at some point, he's going to lose patience with the "we're close" line.  Especially if they implode.  

 

Remember, Dan's first instinct is to be aggressive and impulsive.  Also remember that he personally pursued Gregg Williams and whatshisname from the Jets to replace Manusky. The 'Skins were in on Antonio Brown.  He had his hand (in some way) in picking Haskins.  These are all signs his patience is wearing thin.  He'll only be able to hold his water so long before he explodes and fires everybody. I can almost see an Oprah "you get a car, you get a car" type of scene with a "You're Fired! You're Fired!" with Dan standing on a table and screaming at everybody in sight type of thing.  

 

You're right, I can see a scenario where Bruce fires Jay and promotes KO and tries to scapegoat Jay.  (He might be right, he might be wrong, only time would tell.  But it would be a slimeball move regardless.)

 

But I also see a Scenario where the 'Skins finish 6-10 and Dan just can't contain himself anymore and fires everyone and hires a big-name guy to right the ship.  Not sure who or how well it would work.  But if I can see it, Bruce can see it.  Hence I think he has a desire to win now  

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So, if the rumor is true and the Pats opening bid was their 2020 first rounder, I hope the Redskins' response wasn't 'Not good enough,' but 'That's interesting. Here's a counter' or at least, 'That's a good opener we might be able to get something done if you sweeten the pot a bit.'

 

I get the feeling that Bruce hears a bid and just doesn't counter. He doesn't believe in give and take. He thinks his offer is set in stone. Mind you, most of this comes from the "take it or leave it" style of negotiations he seemed to have with Kirk, but still... good deal makers know how to flirt, woo, and dance. At the least, they know they must be willing to rumba. 

 

More, if he knew Williams wasn't coming back (and I've heard that there hasn't been a lot of communication between Trent and the 'skins either to woo him or let him know how much he is loved, appreciated and valued), then you need to be a more willing dance partner. Don't settle. Don't seem desperate. But be willing to engage in the game.

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Bellichek : We'll give you a first rounder.

Allen : You're going to have to sweeten the pot.

Bellicheck : What do you want, another pick, a player ?

Allen : Not a pick, and not a player. Come on, we're talking about Trent Williams. You need to sweeten the pot !

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46 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

NE Draft picks in 2020 likely to include 7 picks in the first 4 rounds being 1,2,3,3,3,4,4

 

I would say no to the initial offer too. 

Good gods if that's what the Pat's draft looks like next year ya might as well crown there ass for 6 more years..good gods I hate the ****ing Patriots...

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Posted (edited)

Hoping Russell is wrong, his point is they might have missed their shot at least with NE.  Finlay also suggested that was then might not be so now with NE.  Hopefully we got some other serious bidders. 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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59 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

I don’t give credit to Bruce for the drafts either. I give him credit for identifying a head coach with an eye for talent and a really talented personnel man and staying out of their way. 

 

Listen, I disagree with almost everyone on here. But as a young kid all I remember is being an absolute laughing stock. I was religious about reading articles back then and would read WaPo pieces screaming for the Skins to do things the Raven, Patriot, Steeler way. Accumulate draft picks, develop your own, sign the best, and let the others walk to gain comp picks and increase your odds of hitting in the draft. Articles about building the lines and investing resources up front. Articles about continuity. Articles about not signing a million free agents to mega deals which enables a backwards locker room culture. These are all things we are doing now, and yeah I value them. As you stated the other day, there’s actually a legitimate path forward to a contending window. And when you add to the fact that our recent drafts aren’t just OK, but damn good when you look around the league, I can’t say I hate the way things operate.

 

Id love that structure you talk about, but have resigned to the fact it’s never going to happen under Snyder. Would love for Kyle Smith to be top dog and to carry out one unified vision. But if he were to get hired tomorrow, I’d say that I really hope that we continue on the way we have been these past few years. It won’t be long before these guys grow into their prime and we’ve built a sustainable winner. That’s where I see it trending, and yes it’s just my feeling not some set in stone thing. But that’s the vantage point I operate from, and I’m ok with the fact no one agrees with me. It will be all the sweeter when we get to where we want to go and there are no more click piece articles swirling around about god knows what 😀.

 

I find it comforting that on a base level, we agree. I think there's a misunderstanding around here that some people who support (or defend) the FO are doing so because they specifically endorse Bruce. Knowing that it's really more about endorsing the process that has gotten our roster where it's heading right now (which you detail well above), and not wanting that to change if we shake things up...that's something I can work with, as a fellow fan. 

 

For me, I see where you're coming from now that you've laid it out this way. But I almost see more risk in leaving a guy like Bruce in power, someone who seemingly has an ego and a desire for "credit". Because that puts the guys who are actually responsible for our drafts at risk. I also think that Bruce probably has a heavier hand in veteran FA and trades for veterans, which is where we're weaker (in comparison to our recent draft prowess). If we could get a GM with a broad, top-down view on roster-building in power, we'd be better off. Someone who can be held accountable because it's not a "Redskins decision". Someone who has a long view.  For me, that's where the Bruce hate comes from. I think you need that accountability to be the type of stable organization you want to be. Right now we have some good college talent evaluators in-house, and at least on draft weekend they are having their say. But it's all happening on top of an unstable foundation that could topple at any time, because our organizational structure is weak. 

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Texans, unless they have signed someone and the Browns have to be seriously considered.  I would think they would offer up a 1st and change.  Doubt Skins get a 1st and 2nd but a 1st and 3rd or 4th more likely, I think.  We need to move TW and sign a savvy OT vet who gets cut after PS game 3 or 4. 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Texans, unless they have signed someone and the Browns have to be seriously considered.  I would think they would offer up a 1st and change.  Doubt Skins get a 1st and 2nd but a 1st and 3rd or 4th more likely, I think.  We need to move TW and sign a savvy OT vet who gets cut after PS game 3 or 4. 

 

We need @volsmet to negotiate the deal.  Bruce apparently might not be loved over there in the Texan FO. 😀

 

If that's so, it reminds me some of the talk about the RG3 deal.  At the time it was said that someone with the Rams I think it was either their GM or Fisher who couldn't stand Bruce so others had to do the direct negotiation. 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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18 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Because that puts the guys who are actually responsible for our drafts at risk. I also think that Bruce probably has a heavier hand in veteran FA and trades for veterans, which is where we're weaker (in comparison to our recent draft prowess). If we could get a GM with a broad, top-down view on roster-building in power, we'd be better off. Someone who can be held accountable because it's not a "Redskins decision". Someone who has a long view.  For me, that's where the Bruce hate comes from. I think you need that accountability to be the type of stable organization you want to be. Right now we have some good college talent evaluators in-house, and at least on draft weekend they are having their say. But it's all happening on top of an unstable foundation that could topple at any time, because our organizational structure is weak. 

 

I agree with all of this.  Though Cooley makes a good point on this saying if we were Bruce would we demote ourselves or try to hold power?   It's up to Dan to make that move. Bruce isn't going to promote Kyle and give him power over himself.  That's for Dan to do.   I think Dan has improved on some counts but not enough and IMO until he puts winning above his social life whether it's the GM or his favorite players -- he's going to get in his own way.    It's weird to be a fan of an organization where the idea of having a highly reputable dude in charge of personnel is some weird pie in the sky pipe dream.    And if people argue for it they are deemed haters.   I'd place a bet that this quandary is an exclusive thing confined to Redskins fans.    I guess maybe Dallas, too?  the 1980s Yankees? 😀

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35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Hoping Russell is wrong, his point is they might have missed their shot at least with NE.  Finlay also suggested that was then might not be so now with NE.  Hopefully we got some other serious bidders. 

 

I would wait another week. Starters will get hurt during this weekends games. That will raise his value a little bit. I would be fine with two seconds and be done with it. He is a declining LT that cant stay healthy. Get what you can and move on.

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1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

I find it comforting that on a base level, we agree. I think there's a misunderstanding around here that some people who support (or defend) the FO are doing so because they specifically endorse Bruce. Knowing that it's really more about endorsing the process that has gotten our roster where it's heading right now (which you detail well above), and not wanting that to change if we shake things up...that's something I can work with, as a fellow fan. 

 

For me, I see where you're coming from now that you've laid it out this way. But I almost see more risk in leaving a guy like Bruce in power, someone who seemingly has an ego and a desire for "credit". Because that puts the guys who are actually responsible for our drafts at risk. I also think that Bruce probably has a heavier hand in veteran FA and trades for veterans, which is where we're weaker (in comparison to our recent draft prowess). If we could get a GM with a broad, top-down view on roster-building in power, we'd be better off. Someone who can be held accountable because it's not a "Redskins decision". Someone who has a long view.  For me, that's where the Bruce hate comes from. I think you need that accountability to be the type of stable organization you want to be. Right now we have some good college talent evaluators in-house, and at least on draft weekend they are having their say. But it's all happening on top of an unstable foundation that could topple at any time, because our organizational structure is weak. 

 

Well let me say first, that was a refreshing response. I do understand in a perfect world the desire to have a guy like Kyle Smith in charge and for him to own everything. From an accountability standpoint, and to have a young talented up and comer that the franchise can grow with. And even if I don’t necessarily place much emphasis on it and think certain things are over blown from a media/coverage wise, I can’t argue that it would be a nice boost in positive PR. And I’ve said as much on here, but I think part of my disconnect is that I grew up watching an utter trash GM (Vinny) running the show. So going from utter trash to at least building the right way feels (to me) like a huge win. I love that we didn’t mortgage the future to go up and grab Haskins this year, we stayed pat and grabbed our guy once he fell. We don’t seem to be rushing him in just to put butts in seats right away. It’s a small example but it shows a level of organizational maturity that I’m just not accustomed to. I think what comes off overly homer about me is that I really hate to see such strong fan discontent when things (to me) feel drastically improved. It hurt so bad for me to flip on the 6-3 Redskins last year at home against the Texans and see a half empty stadium. I grew up going to games in the early Snyder era where the nostalgia wave was still going and we’d pack the house no matter the record. I took pride in that, even though we were run by an incompetent doofus we at least had a strong fan base. So for me it sucks to feel things are changing for the better but see such bitterness and hatred toward the team and at a rapidly growing rate. Just to give a little perspective from one of the younger generation fans. Again, thank you for responding the way you did, it is much appreciated. 

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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

We need @volsmet to negotiate the deal.  Bruce apparently might not be loved over there in the Texan FO. 😀

 

If that's so, it reminds me some of the talk about the RG3 deal.  At the time it was said that someone with the Rams I think it was either their GM or Fisher who couldn't stand Bruce so others had to do the direct negotiation. 

 

 

The comment I made earlier today was sincerely shared with me in less vague terms. 

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

 

I would wait another week. Starters will get hurt during this weekends games. That will raise his value a little bit. I would be fine with two seconds and be done with it. He is a declining LT that cant stay healthy. Get what you can and move on.

 

The Jags had an injury on the line, though it was to a backup ... still, guys will continue to fall while Trent is resting at home. 

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Posted (edited)

The rest of this game is worthless. 

 

Looked decent, very few penalties and no injuries to starters so I'll take it.

Edited by redskinss
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Just now, redskinss said:

The rest of this game is worthless. 

 

I’ve watched episodes of locked up abroad that I’d rather experience myself than sit here through another 25 minutes of Joe Theismann. 

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9 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

The comment I made earlier today was sincerely shared with me in less vague terms. 

 

 Appreciate you sharing it. I trust it.  You’ve shared your football ties and they are impressive.

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