!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

[Skin'emAlive]

The Patriots do not fleece everyone. They have just as many failed experiments as other franchises do. The difference is that they ruthlessly move players before they can demand too much, and get away with it because the have Tom Brady and Bill. It really does come down to that.

[NewCliche21]

2 hours ago, Unbias said:

So Bruce won't trade him? 

 

Super. 

 

The people that wanted to move on get nothing. 

 

The people that wanted them to make up gets nothing. 

 

Is it possible that we've been able to pull off the rare lose-lose-lose scenario where the team, fans and player all are worse off? 

 

I'm as anti-Bruce as they come, but this is business management 101.  Inflate demand by artificially lowering supply, and you get a greater payment.

If Bruce put up a sign saying, "TRADE FOR THIS GUY!" then he's lowered the price.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Unbias]

20 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

I'm as anti-Bruce as they come, but this is business management 101.  Inflate demand by artificially lowering supply, and you get a greater payment.

If Bruce put up a sign saying, "TRADE FOR THIS GUY!" then he's lowered the price.

 

I'm not sure if this applies to the current situation. Teams are calling about trading for him. If we ignore them those teams might find other solutions. If Bruce is trying to control the supply he should be more concerned about demand shrinking. 

 

The market pretty much as as little supply as it can. After the roster cut downs there will be a bunch of new signings. We'd want to get in before that time. 

 

There's always a chance of a big injury in preseason or early in the year where a team is very desperate, but that's far from the current picture. 

 

For me it's starting to move towards the worst case scenario - He sits for the max number of games he can. when it comes to the week where he's got to report so he doesn't lose the season towards his contract he reports. He's not in 'football shape' and might have some kind of 'soft tissue injury', so he barely plays with us all year long. For the team there's the constant distraction and we end up allocating cap space for a player who just doesn't want to be here.

 

If I was Bruce I'd take all those calls. Call a few more teams letting them know what the current deals are, then go back to one of those teams that called and ask for a bit more. Take a few days and make sure you are getting the most for him, then move on. 

[RandyHolt]

32 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

I'm as anti-Bruce as they come, but this is business management 101.  Inflate demand by artificially lowering supply, and you get a greater payment.

If Bruce put up a sign saying, "TRADE FOR THIS GUY!" then he's lowered the price.

 

Econ 101 there is no market if there is no supply. No one bids on something that doesn't exist. Demand is already minimal because every team has a plan at OT.  Other than us, of course. Too bad our LT situation doesn't artificially drive up demand. Ironically our own LT demand is the only demand of significance as far as I know.  NE will be just fine without our help. Bruce doesn't have the market cornered quite as much as he thinks he does.  He is more desperate than any other GM, trust me on this.

 

Bruce should absolutely take offers on Trent and resolve this issue. Wait for injuries to strike and then pull the string. Does Bruce really want Trent to play here, after saying he doesn't want to be there?  Or make him sit for 2 years and we get nothing?  In most enterprises a guy that gives notice sees ties get cut and sent home early.

 

Meanwhile as Bruce says he is not for sale, our locker room is torn and coaches team and fans distracted.  Bruce's ego is the only thing that is winning in the short term.  Wait until the injuries pile up for the real locker room dissension to kick in. 

[HardcoreZorn]

4 minutes ago, Unbias said:

 

I'm not sure if this applies to the current situation. Teams are calling about trading for him. If we ignore them those teams might find other solutions. If Bruce is trying to control the supply he should be more concerned about demand shrinking. 

 

The market pretty much as as little supply as it can. After the roster cut downs there will be a bunch of new signings. We'd want to get in before that time. 

 

There's always a chance of a big injury in preseason or early in the year where a team is very desperate, but that's far from the current picture. 

 

For me it's starting to move towards the worst case scenario - He sits for the max number of games he can. when it comes to the week where he's got to report so he doesn't lose the season towards his contract he reports. He's not in 'football shape' and might have some kind of 'soft tissue injury', so he barely plays with us all year long. For the team there's the constant distraction and we end up allocating cap space for a player who just doesn't want to be here.

 

If I was Bruce I'd take all those calls. Call a few more teams letting them know what the current deals are, then go back to one of those teams that called and ask for a bit more. Take a few days and make sure you are getting the most for him, then move on. 

 

The bolded doesn’t make much sense to me. If a team needs a solution at LT they certainly aren’t going to go dumpster diving on someone’s roster cuts and call it fixed. There are no Trent Williams’ available at this time of year. No draft or FA. The demand will only build and not shrink as teams grow weary of their current LT situations or injuries occur. 

[CTskin]

If we get a 1st for TW then everyone bashing the FO will need to swallow their pride and give props. No team in their right mind should trade a 1st for a diminishing player who has played 2/3s of the games over the past three seasons. Not only that, they know that TW will hold out and has us hamstrung. If you're expecting a first and nothing else will suffice then prepare to be disappointed. At this point, I don't care, this drama is bull**** and I want it gone. Give me a 2nd or a decent player and let's move on. 

[Riggo#44]

8 minutes ago, CTskin said:

If we get a 1st for TW then everyone bashing the FO will need to swallow their pride and give props. No team in their right mind should trade a 1st for a diminishing player who has played 2/3s of the games over the past three seasons. Not only that, they know that TW will hold out and has us hamstrung. If you're expecting a first and nothing else will suffice then prepare to be disappointed. At this point, I don't care, this drama is bull**** and I want it gone. Give me a 2nd or a decent player and let's move on. 

 

And then don't play Haskins until next year. I don't want him turning into David Carr, Patrick Ramsey, et al

[Veryoldschool]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRkVtMCu9TI

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

42 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

The Patriots do not fleece everyone. They have just as many failed experiments as other franchises do. The difference is that they ruthlessly move players before they can demand too much, and get away with it because the have Tom Brady and Bill. It really does come down to that.

 

They get away with it because they have enough depth/talent to make those moves and take chances.  They built a machine.  Under BB, they have only finished two seasons where they won less than 10 games (his first year finishing 5-11 and his third year which they were 9-7).  They have only missed the playoffs three times too, his first and third seasons and the one season Brady got injured week 1 and they still won 11 games that year.

 

[CTskin]

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

And then don't play Haskins until next year. I don't want him turning into David Carr, Patrick Ramsey, et al

 

Agreed, he's in the ideal position to be redshirt. He can pick O'connell/Smith's brains for a year, get fully comfortable with the system, and hopefully start next year with a legitimate offensive line in front of him. I just don't know if patience and intelligence can overcome in this era of immediate ROI.

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, CTskin said:

patience and intelligence

 

Yeah, our organization is not exactly known for these qualities

[NewCliche21]

23 minutes ago, Unbias said:

 

I'm not sure if this applies to the current situation. Teams are calling about trading for him. If we ignore them those teams might find other solutions. If Bruce is trying to control the supply he should be more concerned about demand shrinking. 

 

The market pretty much as as little supply as it can. After the roster cut downs there will be a bunch of new signings. We'd want to get in before that time. 

 

There's always a chance of a big injury in preseason or early in the year where a team is very desperate, but that's far from the current picture. 

 

For me it's starting to move towards the worst case scenario - He sits for the max number of games he can. when it comes to the week where he's got to report so he doesn't lose the season towards his contract he reports. He's not in 'football shape' and might have some kind of 'soft tissue injury', so he barely plays with us all year long. For the team there's the constant distraction and we end up allocating cap space for a player who just doesn't want to be here.

 

If I was Bruce I'd take all those calls. Call a few more teams letting them know what the current deals are, then go back to one of those teams that called and ask for a bit more. Take a few days and make sure you are getting the most for him, then move on. 

 

You make good points.

 

The physical part is something I'd be concerned about, but that would exist in any trade, anyway.  I agree about the cap space.

I think you take the calls in the background but publicly he's not for sale.  As soon as you're proactively trying to move inventory, the buyer gains just a bit more leverage.

 

 

18 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Econ 101 there is no market if there is no supply. No one bids on something that doesn't exist. Demand is already minimal because every team has a plan at OT.  Other than us, of course. Too bad our LT situation doesn't artificially drive up demand. Ironically our own LT demand is the only demand of significance as far as I know.  NE will be just fine without our help. Bruce doesn't have the market cornered quite as much as he thinks he does.  He is more desperate than any other GM, trust me on this.

 

Bruce should absolutely take offers on Trent and resolve this issue. Wait for injuries to strike and then pull the string. Does Bruce really want Trent to play here, after saying he doesn't want to be there?  Or make him sit for 2 years and we get nothing?  In most enterprises a guy that gives notice sees ties get cut and sent home early.

 

Meanwhile as Bruce says he is not for sale, our locker room is torn and coaches team and fans distracted.  Bruce's ego is the only thing that is winning in the short term.  Wait until the injuries pile up for the real locker room dissension to kick in. 

 

People certainly bid on things that don't exist, zero is the ultimate lack of supply.  If something is potentially on the market, meaning it meets reasonable conditions for it to be placed on the market, you try to win the bidding before auction starts.  We have at least three teams already asking for trades while we're "not interested."  There's no other LT close to his level who would be available, and some of these teams (like Houston) feel that they're one piece away and that their window is closing.

Everyone in the locker room has agents and understand the business end of things, players and coaches.  Plus all of them already know Bruce.  It's not like someone is replacing an amazing captain; this guy already acts like he's navigating the Titanic after it's underwater.

As idiotic as Bruce might be, he's still dealing with competent GM's who would be competing with each other.  He's in such a situation that, unless he doesn't trade him, his own inability to be a GM is negated.

[profusion]

There's no chance the Skins get a 1st for TW absent a season-ending injury to another elite OT on a contender. That's a lot of ifs. I'd probably just take a reasonable offer now to move on.

[NewCliche21]

20 minutes ago, CTskin said:

If we get a 1st for TW then everyone bashing the FO will need to swallow their pride and give props. No team in their right mind should trade a 1st for a diminishing player who has played 2/3s of the games over the past three seasons. Not only that, they know that TW will hold out and has us hamstrung. If you're expecting a first and nothing else will suffice then prepare to be disappointed. At this point, I don't care, this drama is bull**** and I want it gone. Give me a 2nd or a decent player and let's move on. 

 

Eh.  Getting a first would make it feel better, but I'd still feel super worried about the insane drop off at the biggest non-skill position.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[HigSkin]

 

[Riggo'sRangers]

6 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

They get away with it because they have enough depth/talent to make those moves and take chances.  They built a machine.  Under BB, they have only finished two seasons where they won less than 10 games (his first year finishing 5-11 and his third year which they were 9-7).  They have only missed the playoffs three times too, his first and third seasons and the one season Brady got injured week 1 and they still won 11 games that year.

 

 

The Patriots also fell into a perfect storm division wise devoid of teams that beat each other up, for a prolonged period of time, and usually gives them 4-6 wins every year.  They have been extremely fortunate in that regard and why their dynasty will probably not be repeated.  Just an amazing combination of good fortune (drafting a GOAT QB in the 6th round for example), finding the right coach, and smart football moves.  Just kind of flabbergasting when you really think about it.  Hail

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[sempre_victrix]

40 minutes ago, Unbias said:

 

I'm not sure if this applies to the current situation. Teams are calling about trading for him. If we ignore them those teams might find other solutions. If Bruce is trying to control the supply he should be more concerned about demand shrinking. 

 

The market pretty much as as little supply as it can. After the roster cut downs there will be a bunch of new signings. We'd want to get in before that time. 

 

There's always a chance of a big injury in preseason or early in the year where a team is very desperate, but that's far from the current picture. 

 

For me it's starting to move towards the worst case scenario - He sits for the max number of games he can. when it comes to the week where he's got to report so he doesn't lose the season towards his contract he reports. He's not in 'football shape' and might have some kind of 'soft tissue injury', so he barely plays with us all year long. For the team there's the constant distraction and we end up allocating cap space for a player who just doesn't want to be here.

 

If I was Bruce I'd take all those calls. Call a few more teams letting them know what the current deals are, then go back to one of those teams that called and ask for a bit more. Take a few days and make sure you are getting the most for him, then move on. 

 

All true, but there is also the possibility that he is not even cleared to play or practice yet, since his surgery is healing.  It's unlikely any LTs of TW caliber will be cut between now and hell freezing over, so waiting a couple more weeks is prudent.  Obviously, we hate to see a major injury to any player in the league, but that is more or less what the organization is waiting for.

 

I just hope that Bruce will pull the trigger on a very good offer and not hold out for a stupid good offer that never comes.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

57 minutes ago, CTskin said:

If we get a 1st for TW then everyone bashing the FO will need to swallow their pride and give props. No team in their right mind should trade a 1st for a diminishing player who has played 2/3s of the games over the past three seasons. Not only that, they know that TW will hold out and has us hamstrung. If you're expecting a first and nothing else will suffice then prepare to be disappointed. At this point, I don't care, this drama is bull**** and I want it gone. Give me a 2nd or a decent player and let's move on. 

The 1st round pick only entered into the scenario because of Schefter.  But I’ll take his word on value over any of ours.  Schefter said a first and change, so a first is where the bar is set now.  It’s quite possible other teams don’t see him as this broken down dude many of you all see him as.

[PartyPosse]

There are so many different opinions and "claims" in terms of what Trent wants/if he'll come back, i decided i'm gonna reserve judgement until we get some concrete info about the real story.

 

With that said, regardless of Trent's status or if he's happy or not, trading him for draft picks is probably the best thing this franchise can do if we are rebuilding. I almost wish there wasn't this animosity as it would have looked good on the organization if we traded Trent to a contender in the hopes of him winning a championship. It would have been win-win all around.

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 hour ago, CTskin said:

If we get a 1st for TW then everyone bashing the FO will need to swallow their pride and give props. No team in their right mind should trade a 1st for a diminishing player who has played 2/3s of the games over the past three seasons. Not only that, they know that TW will hold out and has us hamstrung. If you're expecting a first and nothing else will suffice then prepare to be disappointed. At this point, I don't care, this drama is bull**** and I want it gone. Give me a 2nd or a decent player and let's move on. 

 

I don't see it this way at all. I'm in the camp that believes Trent's grievances are legit. I mean we have heard similar comments from other players.  No I'm pointing the finger on Redskins management, as has been the case for over 20 years they find a way to screw up everything.

 

Now we are about to lose our best player for a pick, very possibly due to more management incompetence and dishonesty.  Given their track record this is entirely possible, even probable IMO,  Even if its a first there is zero guarantee that the player they pick will be as good as Trent, especially if it comes from New England and will be a pick after #30.  Even if he is younger he could very well end up being another Eric Flowers.  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

If all this about Trent wanting out because of the medical staff is true:

 

Does anyone else wish Trent had instead chosen to stay but under the condition that management help improve the way medical issues are handled between the med staff, trainers, and players?...Like, taken a leadership role in improving things for himself, his teammates, and future Skins players after he's gone?...Could even have led to something in the CBA where certain changes are made across the league, like delegating a player on each team to represent the players' concerns in meetings with the front office. No way in hell would Allen, Snyder, and Williams blown off his request, as long as it wasn't something drastic like "fire the med staff" lol...to truly use this as an opportunity to instigate real change and have everyone try and understand the problems players have coupled with the realities medical staffs face across the league.

 

Would have been a much better narrative than "I want out"/"yeah, Redskins suck!"/"No, Trent sucks!"/"I'm Su'a Cravens and I endorse this holdout"....

 

[dyst]

Two #1 picks in next years 2020 draft (our own pick and the pick of whatever team trades for Trent), would be a GREAT way to rebuild this offensive line. You can draft two of the best lineman if possible (a LT and LG). Honestly, I'd try to trade Morgan too if you can net a high enough draft pick.