Owls0325

New development: Trent Williams wants to be traded/released

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7 minutes ago, Bang said:

 

So let him know what demands end up getting him. 6 weeks ago he presumably felt the same way if it's the medical staff he's upset with,and 6 weeks ago the Redskins would have had more option to be able to try and make a move.

 But he waited til now, painting the team as deep into a corner as he could. First he said he wanted a new deal or to be traded, then  after a day of backlash, oh, uh, it's the uh, doctors,   yeah. that's it.. it's the healthcare..

 

"Whenever they say it isn't about money, it's about money" - Deion Sanders.

 

Trade for someone if we have to, but do not trade him. Send him home.

 

~Bang

 

As far as I know, Trent has not made anything public about the health or financial issues.  He didn't say one thing, then change his story the next day.  Reports about his dissatisfaction with his contract and/or medical care have not been attributed to him or his agents as far as I know.  It seems reporters have tried to talk to people who know him, and different people are giving different thoughts about his motivation.

 

Also, since he has kept quiet about this publicly, but has discussed it with the FO, how can you know that he didn't tell the FO a couple months ago that he was not planning to report?  Maybe the FO thought he was bluffing, or that he would change his mind.

 

 

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6 hours ago, benskins26 said:

 

Theres absolutely no reason for this, but based on NFL history, I just have this feeling that the Browns are gonna crash and burn. I have a strong inclination to put money down on the under. Again, idk why, just a feeling because of all the hype. The preseason Johnny come lately hype teams never seem to do well 

It honestly reminds me of their team in like 2007 when they had Kellen Winslow, Brayon Edwards, Jamal Lewis and Derek Anderson. They looked poised to be a dominant offense and then just crashed and burned.

8 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

So we basically replace ty with flowers?...we should have hung on to ty...that's so Redskins though I tell ya

 

Not for 7 million a year. He wasn't all that great when starting.

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It’s two years left on a 6 year deal, considered a lengthy contract by any standards. Provide some security on the backend with guaranteed money and add an additional 2 years to the contract. 

 

Cant blame a potential hall of game player wanting to maximize earning potential and explore whether Skins want to commit to him finishing career as a Skin.

 

Obviously details are limited, so just spitballing, but if money is a factor (98% likely), then team must decide whether value is there to extend. ——It shouldn’t be, this is his contract, so he must honor it. Rather, do “we” believe value exists in player over next 3 seasons or so. 

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So far he has missed a mini camp that he couldn't practice in anyway. 

Then a bunch of rumors.

 

Could we be overreacting?

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Nerm said:

 

As far as I know, Trent has not made anything public about the health or financial issues.  He didn't say one thing, then change his story the next day.  Reports about his dissatisfaction with his contract and/or medical care have not been attributed to him or his agents as far as I know.  It seems reporters have tried to talk to people who know him, and different people are giving different thoughts about his motivation.

 

Also, since he has kept quiet about this publicly, but has discussed it with the FO, how can you know that he didn't tell the FO a couple months ago that he was not planning to report?  Maybe the FO thought he was bluffing, or that he would change his mind.

 

 

 

So i am to think that all of the reasoning that are on headlines are just made up imaginings over what the problem is?
This article https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/admit-it-or-not-trent-williams-holdout-major-distraction-redskins
"Soon after news leaked out that Williams wanted a new contract. While he does have two years remaining on his deal, news of his desire for a new contract did not come as a shock to anyone."

So, while it doesn't say "trent said...".. somebody leaked something... does it seem like a leak the team would make?
Logically speaking, it doesn't, especially given the rest of the line about no one being surprised.

The next day Jason LaCanfora, who as goofy as he may be IS working for CBS, a large media outlet,, said the troubles run deeper than money and alluded to sources suggesting the medical issues. 
He might be making it up, he hasn't got the best record among Redskins fans. But if he's not, again, is this something the team would leak?

 

I would think that if Trent had made this known months ago, they would have addressed the potential for a problem somehow in the draft or in free agency, but they didn't. I don't belie vei n bluffs at this level. And neither do they..  if threats are made, the answer is not to o absolutely nothing to prepare.

regardless of how we'd all love to believe they's just so dang't stoopit, they're really not, and they would probably have made at least some attempt to shore up beyond signing the world's worst tackle Ereck Flowers on a one year deal.

 

But, anyone can believe what they want, i guess.

People tend to follow patterns. And this looks to me like a guy who thinks he has leverage... which happens quite often in the NFL.

 

 

for those who think we should pay...  in the NFL losers stay losers by paying guys for what they did rather than what they can do.

Paying a player is an investment on what he can do in the future. not a reward for what's done in the past.. not on players over 30 with extensive injury history.

 

 

~Bang

Edited by Bang
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16 minutes ago, Hoover-ball said:

So far he has missed a mini camp that he couldn't practice in anyway. 

Then a bunch of rumors.

 

Could we be overreacting?

 

I was thinking about this today. He's a veteran who probably dislikes camp and other things. Is it better than he is in camp practicing or rehabbing or helping his teammates? Of course. But if he wants to skip mini camp to try to leverage a new contract, so be it. I'd rather him miss this than miss games. If this goes into the season, then I'll be worried. Otherwise, people are getting worked up over what could be nothing. 

 

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If it went down like @daveakl pointed out I would have a huge issue with how we handled it and no problem with Trent turning his back on this organization.

 

I'm no attorney but there would seem to be some negligence involved there and the kind that could put someone's life in danger.

 

Problem is we don't know what the hell happened.

 

@daveakl - I hope your daughter is doing well.

 

 

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I think the only move for the team here is to wait Trent out. He has no guaranteed money left on his contract. If he doesnt show up for the season then he does not get paid... that's a L. Bell type stupid move to leave 12mil on the table and Trent doesnt strike me as a dumb guy. The team should definitely start looking around for a cheaper option in FA  and prepare for the worst case.

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There is something to be said about trust too. I am willing to wait until training camp (while looking for talent via trade at the right price for the Skins). If left with a choice of a bad trade deal for letting Trent sit. Let him sit. The Skins HAVE to STOP this type of extortion. We got screwed by KC and set a perception that the Skins can be had. Trust is shot as far as I can see.

 

Lets see some Pittsburgh Steeler back bone here. If they can do it with Bell and Brown..2 legit superstars back to back....we need to grow a pair.

 

Time for this franchise to make a statement IMHO

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1 hour ago, Bang said:

People tend to follow patterns. And this looks to me like a guy who thinks he has leverage... which happens quite often in the NFL.

 

Very true.

 

Makes too much sense for hall of fame type talents to not leverage their situations at times. It is what it is. 

 

1 hour ago, Bang said:

for those who think we should pay...  in the NFL losers stay losers by paying guys for what they did rather than what they can do.

Paying a player is an investment on what he can do in the future. not a reward for what's done in the past.. not on players over 30 with extensive injury history.

 

This not paying players 30 and above lacks perspective. Each player situation should be treated as its own entity of perceived value. 

 

For example, the Patriots chose to extend and increase guarantees to Julian Edelman this off season as a 32 year old WR coming off a drug suspension and a torn ACL. 

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Very true.

 

Makes too much sense for hall of fame type talents to not leverage their situations at times. It is what it is. 

 

 

This not paying players 30 and above lacks perspective. Each player situation should be treated as its own entity of perceived value. 

 

For example, the Patriots chose to extend and increase guarantees to Julian Edelman this off season as a 32 year old WR coming off a drug suspension and a torn ACL. 


to him i am sure trying to leverage make's plenty of sense. It's a dog eat dog world, after all..
But i follow the team, and his stick-up with the leverage of a threat to our rookie QB is something i don't like. Period. i don't buy the story about the doctors. i think it's a holdup. i think he is biting the hand.
As to the rest... 
The perspective you missed is simple. 

You pay for what he can DO going forward, not what he has done in the past.

Over 30 has to be taken into consideration when figuring your salary structure and it's implications going forward, especially with the injury history. 

Or in other words, taking Trent's specific situation as i did in the post you quoted and apparently ignored while telling me that individuals should be considered.

i made no blanket statement, i just didn't say the name. figured it wasn't necessary, but since it seems to be... .
Trent is currently 31.

Trent has an extensive and consistent injury history.


I trust you are following along with the perspective here. You do not pay again for that at this juncture of his career. There is no investment there. His Hall of Fame career is why he has collected what he's been paid to date, which is substantial. You don't pay into the future for current and ongoing decline. Period. So he can try, but if it were me, i'd give him option 3. no trade, no release. go home and look for work when you're almost 34 and a free agent.

as to the .. uh,, comparison..
Julian Edelman is a 198 lb wide receiver, not a 300 pound lineman. 
...perspective?
P-shaw.

 

~Bang

Edited by Bang
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Posted (edited)

duplicate.. delete

 

Edited by Bang

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3 hours ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

The Skins HAVE to STOP this type of extortion. We got screwed by KC and set a perception that the Skins can be had.

 

Stop. Not only are you hilariously wrong, your obsession with Cousins continues. It has nothing to do with this situation at all. 

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Posted (edited)

Trent is a HOFer, even though we have sucked his entire career there is a pretty good chance he eventually gets in. I hope this doesn't become a big negative mark against his HOF career because 2 more years of great play and he's a virtual lock. Right now i'd say he's 50/50, only thing holding him back are the All-Pro selections as somehow miraculously he has just one. I know Joe Thomas has been amazing throughout his career but I feel like Trent has been right behind him on at least a few occasions. 

Edited by Burgundy Yoda

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1 hour ago, Bang said:


to him i am sure trying to leverage make's plenty of sense. It's a dog eat dog world, after all..

 

Agreed.

 

Not a right or wrong. For example, I was not a supporter of paying Kirk market value, but realized it was preference over right or wrong. 

 

1 hour ago, Bang said:

But i follow the team, and his stick-up with the leverage of a threat to our rookie QB is something i don't like. Period. i don't buy the story about the doctors. i think it's a holdup. i think he is biting the hand.

 

Not claiming to have experience in the NFL world, but that’s just not how it works in the league for the most part. Not Trents responsibility to worry about another man on the team when it comes to his individual business. 

 

1 hour ago, Bang said:

As to the rest... 
The perspective you missed is simple. 

You pay for what he can DO going forward, not what he has done in the past.

 

Agreed.

 

I believe Trent will be playing football at a high level when 35, 36, and 37 or close to it and okay if he plays on average 12-14 games over a life of a contract— I understand this is not a right or wrong argument on my end and more philosophical.

 

With that said, I do believe most would agree Trent will still move incredibly well as he ages, so his decline will be much slower than average to good athletes. 

 

1 hour ago, Bang said:

Over 30 has to be taken into consideration when figuring your salary structure and it's implications going forward, especially with the injury history. 

 

Agreed. 

 

The losing teams sign players over 30 threw me off, but it appears we’re on the same page. 

 

1 hour ago, Bang said:

i made no blanket statement, i just didn't say the name. figured it wasn't necessary, but since it seems to be... .
Trent is currently 31.

Trent has an extensive and consistent injury history.

 

Cant argue the injury history, but he’s still been available much more than not. It comes down to how much one values elite for 80% (13 out of 16 is 81%) of games or average play for 90%. 

 

Trent was shutdown in 2017, the year he played 10 games. 

 

1 hour ago, Bang said:


I trust you are following along with the perspective here. You do not pay again for that at this juncture of his career. There is no investment there. His Hall of Fame career is why he has collected what he's been paid to date, which is substantial. You don't pay into the future for current and ongoing decline. Period. So he can try, but if it were me, i'd give him option 3. no trade, no release. go home and look for work when you're almost 34 and a free agent.

 

What are you using to support he’s on a decline? He has no guarantees left on the deal, throw the dude a bone. He’s unanimously considered the best player on the team. 

 

His first two two years in the league he missed games. 

 

1 hour ago, Bang said:

as to the .. uh,, comparison..
Julian Edelman is a 198 lb wide receiver, not a 300 pound lineman. 
...perspective?
P-shaw

 

There’s many out there.

 

What does weight have to do with it? I’d venture to guess there’s a wiiiiiiiiide gap between big boys in the league in their mid 30s than WRs. 

 

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2 hours ago, wit33 said:

This not paying players 30 and above lacks perspective. Each player situation should be treated as its own entity of perceived value. 

 

For example, the Patriots chose to extend and increase guarantees to Julian Edelman this off season as a 32 year old WR coming off a drug suspension and a torn ACL. 

 

The Patriots gave Elelman a 2-year extension with $12M guaranteed, they didn't give him a top 5 WR contract.  He didn't get $30M guaranteed like AB got from the Raiders.  That is a value contract for what Edelman brings to the Patriots. 

 

I don't see the value in giving Trent more guaranteed money, right now,  when his career appears to be descending.  

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Agreed.

 

Not a right or wrong. For example, I was not a supporter of paying Kirk market value, but realized it was preference over right or wrong. 

 

 

Not claiming to have experience in the NFL world, but that’s just not how it works in the league for the most part. Not Trents responsibility to worry about another man on the team when it comes to his individual business. 

 

 

Agreed.

 

I believe Trent will be playing football at a high level when 35, 36, and 37 or close to it and okay if he plays on average 12-14 games over a life of a contract— I understand this is not a right or wrong argument on my end and more philosophical.

 

With that said, I do believe most would agree Trent will still move incredibly well as he ages, so his decline will be much slower than average to good athletes. 

 

 

Agreed. 

 

The losing teams sign players over 30 threw me off, but it appears we’re on the same page. 

 

 

Cant argue the injury history, but he’s still been available much more than not. It comes down to how much one values elite for 80% (13 out of 16 is 81%) of games or average play for 90%. 

 

Trent was shutdown in 2017, the year he played 10 games. 

 

 

What are you using to support he’s on a decline? He has no guarantees left on the deal, throw the dude a bone. He’s unanimously considered the best player on the team. 

 

His first two two years in the league he missed games. 

 

 

There’s many out there.

 

What does weight have to do with it? I’d venture to guess there’s a wiiiiiiiiide gap between big boys in the league in their mid 30s than WRs. 

 

 

What does weight have to do with a guy with continual leg problems?
 

Tackles battle with some of the biggest guys on the defense all game long, often while backpedaling. Knees take a MUCh larger pounding and are under a MUCH larger constant stress due to the weight. he is in piles all day, he is in big clusters of huge men shoving.. all day. this in no way compares at all to a receiver who is 100 lbs less, with rules in place to make it so no one can even touch him unless he has the ball, which happens about 6 to 8 times per game on avg. Even when he's blocking, the difference between what he does and what the tackle does in terms of physical violence is VAST. Like as in "why am I having to explain this" vast.

"what am i using to support he's on the decline"?  Trent has not played a complete season in a long time. 6 years ago was the last time he played 16 games. 2013. This supports the notion that he is on the decline. This is a trend. if it was you who were negotiating a contract with him, it would be the first thing you bring up.  
Football players, especially big linemen who's legs start to do that to them so regularly...  the writing is on the wall.  Six years since his last full season.
 

You think he can play five or six more years, well, let's just say I wouldn't bet a dollar on that. 2 or 3 tops is where i'd put my money.

"throw the dude a bone"
Yes, why not just re-work a plan to throw a bone, add to the cap hit, and subtract from our overall cap space to throw a bone. 
It's not a bone. it's salary and bonus and a tight cap, and it is an incredibly sensitive balancing act to manage. "throwing bones" .. there is no value in this, there is no future in this, and once again, what a player is PAID is an investment on his future contribution. and again, no one will ever believe Trent can play out another contract extension. Almost guaranteed that the Redskins have only a minor contingency plan in place to renegotiate with him after his current deal runs out when he's nearly 34.

 

You say it's not Trent's responsibility to worry about anyone else.

Fine. i don't have to like it. He is ****ing with the potential of the team getting better, he is throwing a wrench into the works on purpose.

You can like it, defend it, accept it, but i won't. 
i am a fan, and i don't watch them for the business aspect of it. i watch so i can see them play football, and hopefully win.  Things that start to mess with that, as a fan i don't like it. if he was UP for contract, OK. If he was 28 and looking to extend, OK, but he isn't. He's 31 with injury problems, and the ONLY reason he's doing this now is because he perceives an opportunity to extort the team, and what it does to the rest of the team be damned. 
"Team leader"..  this is one of those things folks like to say about him. That isn't leadership. Not in any language.

In my opinion, what he's doing is hurting the team, threatening the team, and doing so for selfish reasons.
Tell me what of that i should just happily accept because good ol' Trent is just a swell guy?

 

~Bang

Edited by Bang
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1 hour ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Get a Grip

 

Please try to tell me what our former QB who was first unhappy with our contract offers, then signed two Franchise Tags in a row, then hit open FA has to do with a guy who is under contract for two more years being unhappy for either financial or medical reasons. 

 

There is no connection whatsoever except that you want to keep talking about your weird Cousins obsession. You already cooked up one potential conspiracy where Trent and Kirk could have planned this all out to get him to MIN, which I laughed off the planet. 

 

Please, enlighten me with your next theory. 

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On 6/7/2019 at 1:38 PM, SkinsGuy said:

 

We have to keep in mind that the report that came out about Williams unhappy with the medical staff and wanting to be traded came from Jason La Canfora.

 

Anyone remembers his time as the Redskin beat reporter for the Washington (Com)Post, he wasn't the most reliable source.

 

I believe it was Art that had a thread that kept a running tally of his gaffes, errors, and mistakes, and it was a long, looonnnng list. :)

 

I take what La Canfora says and writes with a grain of salt. It doesn't mean what he wrote isn't true. It's just hard to fully believe it coming from him.

i remember several years back when La Canfora left his brief stint with NFLN, Adam Schein and Solomon Wilcox on SiriusXM were joking the hell out of La Canfora's reporting and sources.  I was literally laughing out loud in my car as they ripped him.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Bang said:

 

What does weight have to do with a guy with continual leg problems?
 

Tackles battle with some of the biggest guys on the defense all game long, often while backpedaling. Knees take a MUCh larger pounding and are under a MUCH larger constant stress due to the weight. he is in piles all day, he is in big clusters of huge men shoving.. all day. this in no way compares at all to a receiver who is 100 lbs less, with rules in place to make it so no one can even touch him unless he has the ball, which happens about 6 to 8 times per game on avg. Even when he's blocking, the difference between what he does and what the tackle does in terms of physical violence is VAST. Like as in "why am I having to explain this" vast.

 

**LT is a uniquely difficult position to find, especially a budding hall of Famer. Special value is assigned to these dudes.**

 

 

True or false, Offensive lineman overall last longer than WRs? Also, there primes are incredibly longer than fast twitch required positions. 

 

Positions in the trenches have high value for strength and size, this doesn’t decline in 30s, it actually increases and large part why big guys last longer than twitch related positions. Especially physical freaks like Trent Williams. 

 

Think Jason Peters! 

 

 

Quote

what am i using to support he's on the decline"?  Trent has not played a complete season in a long time. 6 years ago was the last time he played 16 games. 2013. This supports the notion that he is on the decline. This is a trend. if it was you who were negotiating a contract with him, it would be the first thing you bring up.  
Football players, especially big linemen who's legs start to do that to them so regularly...  the writing is on the wall.  Six years since his last full season.
 

 

I get the point of extra risk is involved with signing older players, but hall of fame talents carry less risk losing abilities athletically, due to their initial ceiling being so high. 

 

Of course he’ll be on a decline in some ways athletically, this is true for any athlete at age 31, correct? My belief is his legs will be fine to play at a high level in his mid 30s. 

 

Quote

You think he can play five or six more years, well, let's just say I wouldn't bet a dollar on that. 2 or 3 tops is where i'd put my money.

 

Why?

 

Joe Staley 34

Whitworth 37

Peters 37 

Duane Brown 33

 

Nate Solder— Not even in the same class as Williams signed a 4 year 62 million dollar deal at the age of 30.

 

**Also, let me know when WRs are getting paid like these big heavy Olineman in their mid 30s. Big dudes last longer. 

 

Quote

"throw the dude a bone"
Yes, why not just re-work a plan to throw a bone, add to the cap hit, and subtract from our overall cap space to throw a bone. 

 

If they feel he’s the best player on the team—as players, coaches and FO staff have said at times, then YES, you work to make him happy!

 

You appear to not feel he’s playing at a high level and wont have value at age 34 or 35, that’s fine. 

 

Quote

 


It's not a bone. it's salary and bonus and a tight cap, and it is an incredibly sensitive balancing act to manage. "throwing bones" .. there is no value in this, there is no future in this, and once again, what a player is PAID is an investment on his future contribution. and again, no one will ever believe Trent can play out another contract extension. Almost guaranteed that the Redskins have only a minor contingency plan in place to renegotiate with him after his current deal runs out when he's nearly 34.

 

I prefer the Skins manage dollars around their studs and I believe Trent is elite and will continue to be a special talent into his mid 30s, you don’t, cool. 

 

Elite Players have tilted the tables financially in the NFLs current market. Adapt. Let’s be clear, I was on the opposite side of paying Kirk, so it’s just opinion. 

 

**He’ll just have turned 33 when current deal is done. 

 

Quote

 

You say it's not Trent's responsibility to worry about anyone else.

Fine. i don't have to like it. He is ****ing with the potential of the team getting better, he is throwing a wrench into the works on purpose.

You can like it, defend it, accept it, but i won't. 

 

This is the reality is all I’m saying. Players don’t get wrapped up in other’s business. I get not liking it as a fan and in some situations I’m right there with this kind of fandom. I get it. 

Quote

OK. If he was 28 and looking to extend, OK, but he isn't. He's 31 with injury problems, 

 

LTs are difficult to find and are extra value in comparison to all other positions outside of QB and an elite pass rusher. 

Edited by wit33

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It’s amazing how many fans are so completely dismissive of even the chance this has anything to do with the medical care. 

 

Trent Williams - outside liking to toke up a little early in  his career, the guy has been easily the best player and teammate on the team. He plays hurt and then works his ass off to get back when he is more injured. No drama on his previous contract that while lucrative was not extraordinary. Been a cheerleader for other players including helping in recruiting some players to come here. 

 

Then there is the team FO that has a littered past of lies and deceit. They have jerked players, coaches and fans around for virtually the entire time Dan has owned the team. 

 

Despite that that history Trent is the asshole here? What incredible mental gymnastics you have go through to get there. 

 

Is it possible its all 100% money related? Yes. But it is also possible and IMO highly likely there is a medical staff component to it, and a strong one. 

 

And if in fact that is true, then I totally get the timing to really make the team scramble. Let’s not forget he is far from the only person to have a problem with the redskins medical staff.  And many of you dismissing it are also the ones raging how the same medical staff is a large part of the cause of the team leading the league in injuries!  Could there possible be a connection!  

 

So let’s recap. Trent is known for being a straight up guy where the team has been anything but honest most of the time.  To me, If this were just about money I believe he would just say so. 

 

The problem is they will likely end up giving him more money and some of you will feel vindicated. But don’t get too happy. It just means he chose to stop the fight as he made his point but he needs to eat and desperately wants to play and help his teammates win games. 

 

 

 

 

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On 6/6/2019 at 10:12 AM, NoCalMike said:

One thing I am frustrated by is Jay Gruden being forced to address this topic every day, while not a peep from the actual front office.  Sounds like Trent's gripe has nothing to do with coaches or "football" so it should not be Gruden behind the podium addressing this every day. 

 

It's how Bruce operates and it pisses me off too. Same thing when they signed Foster, Bruce threw Grudon out there to field the tough questions. But after he was applauded for the draft Bruce had no problem making himself available.   What a gutless clown Bruce Allen is.  

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2 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

It's how Bruce operates and it pisses me off too. Same thing when they signed Foster, Bruce threw Gruden out there to field the tough questions. But after he was applauded for the draft Bruce had no problem making himself available.   What a gutless clown Bruce Allen is.  

 

This!!!  And completely this!!   I mentioned it at the time that Bruce seemed to be taking a victory lap after the draft since the pundits appeared to look at the draft favorably. I was told, no the media is just now willing to talk to them because they had a good draft among other excuses. Bull****!! 

 

He has no problem taking a victory lap for everyone but when it's going to be a little tough he throws Jay or Doug or anyone else out there. Why? Some would say because Jay and others has cultivated a favorable relationship with the media - which they should. But why has Bruce not cultivated that relationship? It's his job to do exactly that. It's Bruce's job to take the hot questions and let his HC coach!!  Yet he hides in his office and lets' Jay and others take all the shots. It's an act of cowardice.

 

Just another example of Bruce showing what a POS he is.

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