!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

[PartyPosse]

19 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I think you're underestimating the number of infections that occur from surgery.

 

This has happened around the league for years, the Bucs had a huge issue with it a few years back, it's just everyone hates on our Skins so it's amplified for us.

 

Personally, I think the whole "our doctors are terrible" is a bunch of BS.  I don't see why anyone would hire inept doctors to protect assets worth millions, it makes no sense.

 

 

It was the whole Staph Infection debacle. Didn't one of their WR's sue the team and its doctors?

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

Finally, you have the Athletic Training Staff lead by Larry Hess. These guys are the ones who deal with the rehabilitation of players and are the main line of communication between the Medical staff as well as the Coaching staff. 

 

By all accounts, Trent’s problem (as well as many other players) is with the Athletic Training Staff. That’s where coaches get the thumbs up or down about playing players or where players go first before being directed to the specialists within the Medical Staff. 

 

Our top local beat reporters have essentially all stated this.

 

That's true.  Hoffman just talked about it again this morning.  

 

I've heard it mention several times there is some distrust between the players and the training staff -- and ditto its the case with some other teams in the NFL, too (Breer mentioned this among others).  The distrust is partly supposedly driven by the players and the athletic staffs can have competing agendas where the athletic staffs are tasked with getting these players back on the field quickly post injury.

 

As for Trent there are a bunch of narratives that center on him believing he repeatedly got bad advice from staff.  And as Breer among others stated, if the focus is purely on the latest incident then you miss his point.  His beef isn't purely about the cyst.  His beef is that it's another in a series of things that in his mind they got wrong.  Moses suggested that it was about time that a player stood up on this point.  A bunch of reporters (including Keim) have said other players have complained to them too about issues with the staff. 

 

So while i am sticking to I want to trade Trent for reasons that have nothing to do with this story.  It's hard for me to buy that Trent all of a sudden is some sort of loon that's out there on an island.  Granted, we've not heard him speaking on this yet so I'll reserve judgment as to the bottom line.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

23 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

 

I know nothing but it seems people nitpick us at times because we're easy prey.

One doesn’t become easy prey without a laundry list of reasons as to why though.

[HardcoreZorn]

OK so if I’m now understanding everything correctly, it’s the athletic training staff that Trent (and the players) have grown tired of. Which has literally nothing to do with the mis diagnosis of the cyst on his head, since that would be under the purview of the medical staff, no? Yet this was the final straw that caused him to say enough is enough? An incident that occurred outside of the domain of the staff that he and the players DO have beef with? That makes a lot of sense indeed. 

 

Im sticking with my original assertion, which is that Trent is tired of losing, tired of grinding his body away for a team that he sees 20+ guys go on IR and sit the rest of the season. He’s pissed off, had a minor life scare, and that combined with the fact that he felt the organization was trying to replace him with the drafting of Christian has caused him to seek more money to stay or otherwise try his hand playing for a contending Franchise. None of it adds up to be anything more than that. And it’s really crappy of Trent in my opinion, to essentially wait till AFTER the draft and FA to request a trade/more money. That should be a giant red siren going off alerting everyone that this indeed is a money ploy. Why else wait until June 1 to go to the team and ask to be traded? It’s a leverage move.

 

I know how fun it would be for some of you to be “right” that the doctors indeed committed malpractice cause it would be an extremely exciting opportunity to bash your “favorite” franchise. But put the agendas away for a moment and think what actually makes sense here. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 It's hard for me to buy that Trent all of a sudden is some sort of loon that's out there on an island.

This and only this.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[illone]

He just wanted a good reason to skip training camp.

 

Well played, Trent.  Well played.  

 

Cya soon! 👀

[Califan007 The Constipated]

8 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

OK so if I’m now understanding everything correctly, it’s the athletic training staff that Trent (and the players) have grown tired of. Which has literally nothing to do with the mis diagnosis of the cyst on his head, since that would be under the purview of the medical staff, no?

 

 

If the athletic training staff is responsible for directing players to the medical staff and team medical specialists, then maybe they didn't direct Trent to the med staff in a timely manner or something like that there...just guessing, though, since no one has yet to actually 'splain what Trent's beef is.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

59 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

I know how fun it would be for some of you to be “right” that the doctors indeed committed malpractice cause it would be an extremely exciting opportunity to bash your “favorite” franchise. But put the agendas away for a moment and think what actually makes sense here. 

You care entirely too much about who is right and wrong about these situations. Like you actually believe that folks are sitting around keeping tally for this competition you’ve made up in your own head.  

 

In all of the dramatic scenarios the organization finds themselves in, nobody ever gets proven right or wrong, because we aren’t there and never get to find out what really took place.  What we are left to judge is the end result, which in Bruce’s words, is all that matters.  Unless those you speak of are betting against prosperity for the team, there are no prizes for being “right”.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

19 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This and only this. 

 

 

Doesn't have to be a loon for him to have handled this poorly or to have overreacted to what occurred. Nor does having others also complaining about the athletic training staff mean that the athletic training staff did anything wrong. Following standard operating procedures could mean that the SOP needs some genuine revising, not that those following those procedures were negligent or incompetent in any way. However, if individuals within the athletic training staff often neglect to follow SOP, then there is a legit problem with the staff that must be addressed. But as we have all been saying, we don't actually know what Trent's criticism is.

[Malapropismic Depository]

39 minutes ago, illone said:

He just wanted a good reason to skip training camp.

 

Well played, Trent.  Well played.  

 

Cya soon! 👀

 

I get the feeling that this is only wishful thinking.

If he wanted to skip TC, he already had medical reasons to do so, with that 2nd procedure he needed, and supposedly not being medically cleared to play.

[Skinsinparadise]

As for all the Cooley stuff, from what I recall his whole conversation back then was driven by the team saying that they weren't sure what was the issue with Doctson.  So it came off strange back then.  There was some speculation that maybe it was a mind over matter thing because beat guys were saying back then the medical staff hasn't really being able to diagnose it.  So Cooley wondered if part of Doctson's issue was home sickness and talked about some of his teammates especially in their rookie years having that as an issue.

 

Eventually it came out if I recall it was some sort of inflammation of the achilles.  And according to the WP, that problem still exists.  Cooley though mostly finds ways to have the FO's back and the players, too.  I've made this point on another thread which is Cooley though seems to get killed when he doesn't have the FO's back 100% (by some) or the players back 100% (by others).  For me I don't want Cooley to turn into Larry Michael.  I like Larry Michael but I think one is enough.   I am not directing this point at anyone here.  And made the same point about Cooley on the Haskins thread. That is, I just notice that the dude seems to ruffle people more than most when he takes a negative stance on something -- and I feel bad for the dude because I'd say Cooley is 90% Larry Michael but he has a hard time living down the other 10%. 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/nearly-three-full-years-his-career-redskins-and-josh-doctson-still-cant-get-same-page

For someone whose rookie year was ruined by a mysterious Achilles injury

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/25/after-long-recovery-josh-doctson-hoping-perplexing/

The mystery of Josh Doctson’s Achilles’ tendons is still unsolved. The pain that started in the Redskins receiver’s left ankle, spread to his right, and limited the first-round pick to 31 snaps his rookie season disappeared before it was ever truly diagnosed

[Malapropismic Depository]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/25/after-long-recovery-josh-doctson-hoping-perplexing/

The mystery of Josh Doctson’s Achilles’ tendons is still unsolved. The pain that started in the Redskins receiver’s left ankle, spread to his right, and limited the first-round pick to 31 snaps his rookie season disappeared before it was ever truly diagnosed

 

So this could be the reason he "liked" Craven's twitter post ?

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

So this could be the reason he "liked" Craven's twitter post ?

 

Maybe?  😀   Doctson is a quiet dude so he didn't make any public waves.  But I recall the articles and radio segments at the time about it and much of was about they haven't diagnosed anything and it thereby gave the impression that Doctson was soft.   Cooley if anything at the time was making the case for the medical staff since he didn't even question them but instead questioned Doctson. 

[HigSkin]

I wonder what changes the Saints made or are injuries just flukey year to year?  By this chart it seems like our 2018 was an fluke.

 

 

[TSO]

1 hour ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

OK so if I’m now understanding everything correctly, it’s the athletic training staff that Trent (and the players) have grown tired of. Which has literally nothing to do with the mis diagnosis of the cyst on his head, since that would be under the purview of the medical staff, no? Yet this was the final straw that caused him to say enough is enough? An incident that occurred outside of the domain of the staff that he and the players DO have beef with? That makes a lot of sense indeed. 

 

 

See the portion of your post I bolded? Therein lies the issue.  

 

@Califan007 preemptively tried to explain your confusion to you to help lessen the blow, but you’re such a condescending snarky shark that I feel the need to hit you hard on it anyway. 😎

 

Read what I posted again about the responsibilities of the Training Staff. Here, I’ll make it easy for you, I’ll even bold the parts you need to focus on: 

 

Quote

Finally, you have the Athletic Training Staff lead by Larry Hess. These guys are the ones who deal with the rehabilitation of players and are the main line of communication between the Medical staff as well as the Coaching staff. 

 

By all accounts, Trent’s problem (as well as many other players) is with the Athletic Training Staff. That’s where coaches get the thumbs up or down about playing players or where players go first before being directed to the specialists within the Medical Staff. 

 

You see, within that post you had the answers to any of your questions. But instead of actually attempting to comprehend what I wrote, you saw my username, had your usual heart attack because I’m not amongst those who conflate and equate ownership and his top executive with being a Skins fan, and assumed it was some direct challenge to the world you want to live in about them (not judging). 

 

Don’t worry, I’ll go back to my quiet place (because contrary to how you’ve labeled many of us, I don’t actually enjoy the utter distrust that I have in them so I’d rather not spell it out every chance I get) and you can go back to fighting the good fight.  

[HardcoreZorn]

4 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

See the portion of your post I bolded? Therein lies the issue.  

 

@Califan007 preemptively tried to explain your confusion to you to help lessen the blow, but you’re such a condescending snarky shark that I feel the need to hit you hard on it anyway. 😎

 

Read what I posted again about the responsibilities of the Training Staff. Here, I’ll make it easy for you, I’ll even bold the parts you need to focus on: 

 

 

You see, within that post you had the answers to any of your questions. But instead of actually attempting to comprehend what I wrote, you saw my username, had your usual heart attack because I’m not amongst those who conflate and equate ownership and his top executive with being a Skins fan, and assumed it was some direct challenge to the world you want to live in about them (not judging). 

 

Don’t worry, I’ll go back to my quiet place (because contrary to how you’ve labeled many of us, I don’t actually enjoy the utter distrust that I have in them so I’d rather not spell it out every chance I get) and you can go back to fighting the good fight.  

 

Actually no, I didn’t miss a thing. I read your post in full. What scenario could you possibly concoct in your head where the athletic training staff botched this incident? Like @Califan007 said what’d they do, not inform him he see a medical specialist for a non football injury? 

Quote

 

Finally, you have the Athletic Training Staff lead by Larry Hess. These guys are the ones who deal with the rehabilitation of players and are the main line of communication between the Medical staff as well as the Coaching staff. 

 

By all accounts, Trent’s problem (as well as many other players) is with the Athletic Training Staff. That’s where coaches get the thumbs up or down about playing players or where players go first before being directed to the specialists within the Medical Staff. 

 

 

First of all, I’m sort of dumbfounded that I need to point the obvious out in this situation. But as you stated, they are the direct line of communication between the coaching staff and the medical staff as their job is to get the player back to playing at full strength from injury related matters. They aren’t going to communicate to the coaching staff on anything non injury related. It’s literally not in their job description. 

 

I mean what what were they supposed to tell the coaching staff? “Hey Jay, listen man. Trent’s ankle (or whatever injury he was nursing last year) is doing well, he should be ready for Sunday. But want you to be aware that Trent has a cyst that the medical staff doesn’t think is a big deal.” 

 

Any member of the training staff isn’t going to think they need to communicate something in a timely manner that 1.) Isn’t viewed as something serious by the medical professional. And 2.) Something that has zero to do with a football related injury. And Jay is gonna be like “I don’t care that he has a cyst tell him to go see a damn dermatologist.” 

 

So where does that leave us? The only possible arm of the building that Trent could find fault with is the medical staff in this situation for “mis diagnosing” the cyst. Which is supposedly not even the arm of the building that Trent and the players have a big problem with (your words not mine). It doesn’t make a shred of sense. If you spent two minutes thinking about the information we have to date and comprehending what I actually said in my post instead of making it a point to undress me, maybe you’d begin to realize that this is likely money driven and not some giant F up just cause “Dan and Bruce.“ Nothing in my post was even addressed to you, and definitely didn’t have a heart attack at your post. I simply used the information you brought to the table as a launching point for pointing out that it makes no sense. 

 

And if fighting the good fight means not instantly jumping to conclusions and only supporting things that corroborate my agenda while downplaying all else, I’ll keep on keeping on brother. It pains the hell out of me this is happening to one of my favorite Redskins of all time, and I certainly don’t think he’s any loon. But yeah, I also don’t have any disdain for the current FO and the way things are operating, so my mind doesn’t instantly jump to being on Trent’s side just cause he’s at odds with Redskins brass. At some point, Trent needs to take some responsibility for his own health. And fans should hold him more accountable as a leader of the team, rather than backing him at every turn or finding reasons to poo poo the team just cause it fits with your personal feelings. IF something comes out that the Redskins engaged in malpractice, I will happily bash them and switch my stance. Until then, this is about money. And I’m disappointed this is the route he went.

 

 

[RandyHolt]

5 hours ago, TMK9973 said:

2 things .

1 - You are right - They are the TEAM Dr's. Their client is the TEAM.  Their job is to get players back on the field to win games.  

2- Anecdotally -  The Dr that invented the term RICE no longer agrees with it....

 

Very interesting. Thanks much for taking the time to share what you have learned.

 

I had some painful knee injuries cured by using RICE. Now I didn't have severe swelling but had some unexpected success so use it as general day 1 guideline vs rushing to the doctor to get pain meds.  I like your theory about swelling. its like someone killing themselves to stop bleeding immediately - not me, I let'er bleed and cleanse itself some. Heck I squeeze blood out on smaller cuts without a lot of bleeding.

 

I used to go heat for muscle injuries but found ice more often than not, better. Heat for nerve issues, or when I need to loosen up said injury before using it.

 

Compression - I use largely as a mental reminder to take it easy on an injury - usually a leg or wrist. It does provide some support so I believe it aids in keeping things in place to heal better.

 

Possible bigger issue. Our super athlete kids - undergoing growth spurts in the midst of their intensive non stop scholarship earning almost Olympic training endeavors.  I feel their bodies joints muscles brains etc are just not ready for the level of sports activities kids are lets face it usually steered into by their parents. 

[SkinsFTW]

4 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

This has happened around the league for years, the Bucs had a huge issue with it a few years back, it's just everyone hates on our Skins so it's amplified for us.

 

Personally, I think the whole "our doctors are terrible" is a bunch of BS.  I don't see why anyone would hire inept doctors to protect assets worth millions, it makes no sense.

 

 

 

Yes it makes no sense. Which is equal to the hiring of Bruce Allen and then keeping him around for over an entire decade.

 

Oh, and you said the Bucs. That can't be a coincidence that this same mysterious infection epidemic happened only there as well. Bruce brought over more of his buddies, lol. They all  are collectively inept but at least they stick together.

[carex]

13 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Yes it makes no sense. Which is equal to the hiring of Bruce Allen and then keeping him around for over an entire decade.

 

Oh, and you said the Bucs. That can't be a coincidence that this same mysterious infection epidemic happened only there as well. Bruce brought over more of his buddies, lol. They all  are collectively inept but at least they stick together.

 

google NFL staph infection.  Here's an article about JJ Watt, when did he have anything to do with Bruce Allen, there's some stuff about a Giants TE

[rabidskin]

On 8/18/2019 at 1:03 PM, carex said:

 

we have seen nothing to suggest he's asking for more money

you are right.   But going by those close to the source, look at our training and medical staff over the last 2 years and look what has happened to our team with injuries.  It's absurd.  Truth be said, my family was season ticket holders from 1962-2002 and I've seen it all as I went to every game.  I have been battling an incurable cancer (multiple myeloma) for the past 10 years and my body is getting tired much like my wanting 1 more Super Bowl.  I am sickened by the constant (issues) and FO decisions that keep delaying playoffs.  Always something!  Tired of the excuses and talk of building a winning future that has never come.  My selfish reasons are why I want Trent on the field as he is the best LT in the NFL and am sick of stupid decisions like getting rid of Swearinger on a knee jerk reaction and then Gruden questioning himself about making it clear to him about tightening his lips.  We could have gotten something in trade value at least but I liked Swearinger for his spunk, fire and desire to win.  Selfish reasons, I want playoffs this year and we will definitely not get there with this line and without Trent. My last year of hoping and if not, I'm done as a fan until major changes are made.  Maybe the stands need emptying to get the point across as nothing else has worked.  

[dyst]

11 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Sheriff was one of his characters.

 

We absolutely did not lose that trade. Champ Bailey was leaving. Period. Was Champ the better player at a position that was more of a premium? Sure. But allegedly his wife gave him an ultimatum. He was gone.

 

I wish this misnomer would die. The deal with Denver was good for both sides.

Maybe Champ for Portis straight up, an argument could be made for an even trade, huge “maybe” but we also gave up a 2nd rounder. 

 

Not sure how that can’t be considered anything but a loss. 12 time Pro Bowl player. Multiple 1st Pro teams and eventual Hall of Famer.

 

Clinton was nice but I think only Redskins fan look at that trade as even. 

[KDawg]

36 minutes ago, dyst said:

Maybe Champ for Portis straight up, an argument could be made for an even trade, huge “maybe” but we also gave up a 2nd rounder. 

 

Not sure how that can’t be considered anything but a loss. 12 time Pro Bowl player. Multiple 1st Pro teams and eventual Hall of Famer.

 

Clinton was nice but I think only Redskins fan look at that trade as even. 

 

Denver knew he wanted out. So they leveraged us. If there was a better deal it would have been taken. Getting something for nothing is always better than not getting anything for a guy who was out the door. You cannot look at it in terms of straight value because we had zero leverage.

[Voice_of_Reason]

51 minutes ago, dyst said:

Clinton was nice but I think only Redskins fan look at that trade as even

I’m as big a Redskins fan  as anyone.  That trade was a fleecing by the Broncos. It should have been Champ for Portis and something else.  Maybe a third or fourth. It had already become a passing league, the RB was already starting to become less valuable.  Gibbs didn’t really know that yet (his first year back) and Vinny was a boob.

[Mooka]

34 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Denver knew he wanted out. So they leveraged us. If there was a better deal it would have been taken. Getting something for nothing is always better than not getting anything for a guy who was out the door. You cannot look at it in terms of straight value because we had zero leverage.

 

Yea, Champ was already out the door. 

 

His contract expired and it was already public knowledge for a while that the extension talks failed. 

[KDawg]

7 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’m as big a Redskins fan  as anyone.  That trade was a fleecing by the Broncos. It should have been Champ for Portis and something else.  Maybe a third or fourth. It had already become a passing league, the RB was already starting to become less valuable.  Gibbs didn’t really know that yet (his first year back) and Vinny was a boob.

 

Why would Denver give up more for a guy that they would have gotten for free in free agency? Champ Bailey was gone. Everyone knew it. The fact that we got anything for him was a great move. Vinny and Gibbs, as a GM duo, messed some things up. This wasn't one of those things.