!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

[KDawg]

For everyone complaining about Williams (I don't necessarily disagree), you're all aware that if Allen would have traded him at the start of this, none of this could have gotten this far...

 

Yes, we can say that everyone knows Allen/Snyder are a problem, and if "everyone" means us on a fan forum, you're probably right. But do you know who doesn't realize that? Allen and Snyder.

 

And let me clarify my issue on this one...

 

Trent Williams, as a player, and the prevailing player mentality in all professional sports, seems to have a responsibility to himself. Not every player in professional athletics is a team player. Many are about getting their money and making a point about their morals and ideals. It's just the way things are going. I dislike that aspect, but then I go back and think that professional sports from a player and team perspective, is about money. It's a business.

 

The front offices job is to protect the team and put a good on-field product on the field in order to make money and do good by their employees.

 

I suppose an argument could be made that some believe that not giving into Williams is protecting the team from this stuff happening in the future. I disagree with that notion. One incident does not make a trend and not everyone can afford to do what Williams is/was doing. 

 

My belief that the front office has a responsibility to it's franchise to put them in the best possible scenario for success while protecting the team from dysfunction. That dysfunction festered from June until October, and it's still going. Meanwhile, the front office is neglecting to help this team put a better on-field product together by refusing to move an asset. They have failed on both of their directives, which results in them missing their primary directives: Money making and doing good by their employees.

 

This situation sucks. Both sides are operating from a moral low ground. But that's the way professional sports have been.

[sempre_victrix]

He'll pass his physical.

 

He'll come to practice and go through the motions.  He may fake a back or neck injury, at which point, the Redskins will be forced to put him on IR to save the roster spot.

 

Or

 

He will simply be inactive on game day.  Seriously, are you going to let him protect your shiny new QB?

 

The Redskins will try for a roster exemption to prevent him from getting his year accrued. 

 

It will get ugly.

 

At the end of the season, we will trade him for far less than we could have gotten last August.

 

Bruce claims victory.

 

The agony continues for the fans.

 

[sempre_victrix]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

For everyone complaining about Williams (I don't necessarily disagree), you're all aware that if Allen would have traded him at the start of this, none of this could have gotten this far...

 

Yes, we can say that everyone knows Allen/Snyder are a problem, and if "everyone" means us on a fan forum, you're probably right. But do you know who doesn't realize that? Allen and Snyder.

 

And let me clarify my issue on this one...

 

Trent Williams, as a player, and the prevailing player mentality in all professional sports, seems to have a responsibility to himself. Not every player in professional athletics is a team player. Many are about getting their money and making a point about their morals and ideals. It's just the way things are going. I dislike that aspect, but then I go back and think that professional sports from a player and team perspective, is about money. It's a business.

 

The front offices job is to protect the team and put a good on-field product on the field in order to make money and do good by their employees.

 

I suppose an argument could be made that some believe that not giving into Williams is protecting the team from this stuff happening in the future. I disagree with that notion. One incident does not make a trend and not everyone can afford to do what Williams is/was doing. 

 

My belief that the front office has a responsibility to it's franchise to put them in the best possible scenario for success while protecting the team from dysfunction. That dysfunction festered from June until October, and it's still going. Meanwhile, the front office is neglecting to help this team put a better on-field product together by refusing to move an asset. They have failed on both of their directives, which results in them missing their primary directives: Money making and doing good by their employees.

 

This situation sucks. Both sides are operating from a moral low ground. But that's the way professional sports have been.

 

This type of situation in sports will continue until we, as fans, stop patronizing their product.

 

I missed 3 weeks of Redskins games because of issues with Dish Network, and it turned out that I wasn't harmed.  In fact, it was kind of a relief to not be tied down watching such an inferior product produced by whiny millionaires, on both sides.  The players and FOs can both go **** themselves.

 

[dicksogj]

12 minutes ago, sempre_victrix said:

He'll pass his physical.

 

He'll come to practice and go through the motions.  He may fake a back or neck injury, at which point, the Redskins will be forced to put him on IR to save the roster spot.

 

Or

 

He will simply be inactive on game day.  Seriously, are you going to let him protect your shiny new QB?

 

The Redskins will try for a roster exemption to prevent him from getting his year accrued. 

 

It will get ugly.

 

At the end of the season, we will trade him for far less than we could have gotten last August.

 

Bruce claims victory.

 

The agony continues for the fans.

 

 

Yet another black mark during the Allen reign.  During his tenure they have 1. a terrible on field record 2. lowest attendance ever for this team & most of those who attend root for the other team 3. lowest Redskins TV ratings ever & 4. almost nonexistent support from folks who at least previously claimed to be Skins fans.

 

Would someone please tell the real reason why Allen still has a job?  I now have a real hard time buying the argument that he is there to help get the new stadium deal.  They are an NFL franchise - they don't need much help in this area & they have the luxury of pitting three different regions against each other.  Beyond that where in the hell are they going to find fans to fill that new stadium?

 

In 5 years fans/former fans may be begging the Redskins to move somewhere else & it also possible that the other DC teams relegate the Skins to the 3rd or 4th most popular pro team in DC.  That new stadium should have areas that celebrate the accomplishments of the Boys, Eagles & Giants since folks like that may be the only ones in attendance.

 

I just wish that pile of crap Snyder would stop being a baby & actually come out & explain his take on the team & Allen, but we all know that this weasel won't do that at the current time or perhaps ever (unless they win a SB - lol even thinking that will ever occur with him as owner).

[sempre_victrix]

2 minutes ago, dicksogj said:

 

Yet another black mark during the Allen reign.  During his tenure they have 1. a terrible on field record 2. lowest attendance ever for this team & most of those who attend root for the other team 3. lowest Redskins TV ratings ever & 4. almost nonexistent support from folks who at least previously claimed to be Skins fans.

 

Would someone please tell the real reason why Allen still has a job?  I now have a real hard time buying the argument that he is there to help get the new stadium deal.  They are an NFL franchise - they don't need much help in this area & they have the luxury of pitting three different regions against each other.  Beyond that where in the hell are they going to find fans to fill that new stadium?

 

 

Honestly, there is no justification for Allen to continue to have his job.  None.  The position could be vacant and we'd do better as an organization. 

 

Someone needs to search through Bruce's family tree, I'd bet my Cooley jersey that he's related to Mara or Jones somewhere along the way.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This whole narrative that him coming back proves it’s all about money is not logical.  
 

He left millions on the table by not showing up until now.

 

He is showing up now because he’s not about to let Bruce dictate this scenario by not trading him and still having him under contract for two years.  Most of us saw this coming a long time ago.  It makes 0 sense for him to go about this any other way than he has.  

 

A point that has been proven in various social psychology experiments is that people tend to give complex (multi variable) reasons for their own decisions but give real simple explanations for how others make their decisions.  And not giving others the benefit of the doubt so much. 

 

To that point, I doubt Trent was all about just one thing as to why he did what he did.  I doubt it was that simple.    Money in that mix?  I bet it was.  Not loving how the Redskins roll in his years there or how they treated his holdout?  I bet that was part of it, too.  There is no way to know.  But if the dude is willing to forgo half his salary to make a point, I gather it wasn't all a money move.  If ex-teammates say they talked to him and its more than just money -- maybe there is something to it?

 

Many of us don't like Bruce-Dan.  Yet, have a hard time believing that maybe Trent really doesn't care for the FO either and its at least part of the soup?  Kind of similar narrative to the Kirk contract with some saying he didn't want to be there and took issue with that stance -- Paulsen who knew Kirk pretty well flat out said he didn't care for Bruce or how he ran the team and had no issue leaving.  Can money also be part of the soup in these situations?  Sure, I bet it was.  These guys are human they aren't robots.  What jobs have we all done where we didn't care about money and we made it a side issue at best?   If you told me you'd give me millions of dollars to deal with bosses I didn't care for -- I'd do it.  If you told me that I'd get paid more and win elsewhere and escape a dysfunctional situation -- I'd want to leave.  

 

My point is I got zero personal issue with Trent.   I looked at it the whole time as a business drill.  Trade him, get maximum value.  I really don't care about the personal side to this.  But if I am forced to take a side if I made it personal, its not the FO's side. 

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, sempre_victrix said:

He'll pass his physical.

 

He'll come to practice and go through the motions.  He may fake a back or neck injury, at which point, the Redskins will be forced to put him on IR to save the roster spot.

 

Or

 

He will simply be inactive on game day.  Seriously, are you going to let him protect your shiny new QB?

 

The Redskins will try for a roster exemption to prevent him from getting his year accrued. 

 

It will get ugly.

 

At the end of the season, we will trade him for far less than we could have gotten last August.

 

Bruce claims victory.

 

The agony continues for the fans.

 

The one thing Im not so sure about is the value in return part. If we let TW negotiate his own trade to a team and then come back to the Skins with a deal we may get a reasonable return. The off-season should re-set his value somewhat and he should be totally healthy for whomever wants him. Teams will need a left tackle, especially potential playoff teams. 

The only catch would be Bruce allowing Trent to do this but it might be wise to let his agent sell him to other teams....let the agent do the leg work. This could allow teams to speak with Trent and get excited about what he brings. 

Just a thought.

 

[Veryoldschool]

Another season and another unbelievably messed up situation.  The NFL really should institute some sort of fan mercy rule for their fans so woefully inept owners are forced to sell their franchise.  Time for fans to wear paper bags at games.

[Skinsinparadise]

Breer

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/10/30/trade-deadline-takeaways?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=sinow&xid=socialflow_twitter_si&utm_medium=social

I would be surprised if Redskins LT Trent Williams plays another snap for the team, despite having reported on Tuesday. And there could be another Ramsey parallel here—where Williams finds a reason every week to keep the extra mileage of game action off his body. Then, the question becomes whether the Redskins fight to keep him from accruing the season, which would toll his contract (meaning it would run through 2021, rather than just 2020). Stay tuned here. I don’t know that this one’s gonna get any prettier, and the idea of Williams being dealt certainly isn’t off the table.

[UKskins]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

For everyone complaining about Williams (I don't necessarily disagree), you're all aware that if Allen would have traded him at the start of this, none of this could have gotten this far...

 

Yes, we can say that everyone knows Allen/Snyder are a problem, and if "everyone" means us on a fan forum, you're probably right. But do you know who doesn't realize that? Allen and Snyder.

 

And let me clarify my issue on this one...

 

Trent Williams, as a player, and the prevailing player mentality in all professional sports, seems to have a responsibility to himself. Not every player in professional athletics is a team player. Many are about getting their money and making a point about their morals and ideals. It's just the way things are going. I dislike that aspect, but then I go back and think that professional sports from a player and team perspective, is about money. It's a business.

 

I think the key point that you're glossing over a little bit here, is if Trent wanted more money or had an issue with the medical staff etc, then all he needed to do was to make his intentions clear at an earlier point. You can throw it at Allen for not trading him earlier - I totally agree. If Trent had handled business in a professional way, and wanted to make his point about money or staff, whatever his point actually was, BEFORE FA and the draft then absolutely we should all be making hay with the FO.

 

Trent conducted himself in a ****ty way, nobody seems to know what his point even was, including Bruce so it doesn't seem like he's communicated it effectively, and he didn't do it until there was little possibility of signing an effective replacement. We ended up with the last FA on the street, who fortunately turned out to be decent enough in D Penn but if Trent had made his case before FA and the draft and acts like a professional then maybe there would have been a situation where he could be traded and we could replace him.

 

I hate Bruce as much as the next guy, but Trent has been a total dick about the whole situation and his moral standpoint suddenly changed yesterday when he didn't get traded, and reported to ensure the team got screwed further on his trade value.

 

Never thought I'd say this about Trent Williams of all people, but he's been a total douchebag and it's his fault as much as Bruce's for not getting himself traded because he took options off the table by holding out instead of forcing his point when there was opportunity for the Redskins to do a trade without looking like they caved to him.

[Brokenstriker]

It's simple really ...

Allen is a bad general manager and hasn't delivered anything good ... replace him

Williams didn't honor his contract or his teammates ... replace him

Callahan isn't the answer for Head Coach ... replace him

Manusky isn't the answer for D Coordinator ... replace him

Start rebuilding as soon as possible ... take anything you could use to rebuild with for everyone on the roster that isn't part of your rebuilding plan ... keep the healthy, good and young players

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, UKskins said:

 

I think the key point that you're glossing over a little bit here, is if Trent wanted more money or had an issue with the medical staff etc, then all he needed to do was to make his intentions clear at an earlier point. You can throw it at Allen for not trading him earlier - I totally agree. If Trent had handled business in a professional way, and wanted to make his point about money or staff, whatever his point actually was, BEFORE FA and the draft then absolutely we should all be making hay with the FO.

 

Trent conducted himself in a ****ty way, nobody seems to know what his point even was, including Bruce so it doesn't seem like he's communicated it effectively, and he didn't do it until there was little possibility of signing an effective replacement. We ended up with the last FA on the street, who fortunately turned out to be decent enough in D Penn but if Trent had made his case before FA and the draft and acts like a professional then maybe there would have been a situation where he could be traded and we could replace him.

 

I hate Bruce as much as the next guy, but Trent has been a total dick about the whole situation and his moral standpoint suddenly changed yesterday when he didn't get traded, and reported to ensure the team got screwed further on his trade value.

 

Never thought I'd say this about Trent Williams of all people, but he's been a total douchebag and it's his fault as much as Bruce's for not getting himself traded because he took options off the table by holding out instead of forcing his point when there was opportunity for the Redskins to do a trade without looking like they caved to him.

 

Trent had issues last year with the way this was handled. 

 

We don't know how it actually went down because Williams is quiet and it does the team no favors to shed light on it. 

 

It could be exactly as you detail. Or maybe Trent talked to them before and the team played stupid and so he did what he thought he had to do for leverage: Wait until after the 2019 NFL Draft.

 

I'm not going to judge anyone as human beings in this scenario. We don't know enough and I'm not them. To that end, I have one party I'm interested in here. It's not blaming Trent. It's not blaming Dan/Bruce. The party I'm interested in is the Washington Redskins. Who everyone has failed.

 

But the primary agents of that failure are the same agents that have been in the drivers seat for a decade. What happened happened. It's in the past. What wasn't in the past was the ability to move an asset for assets. They didn't do it. They still can, but the situation gets dicier, becomes more of a distraction for a longer drawn out period and compensation may or may not be effected.

[Ghedrick]

Trent is a bad teammate and if I was Dan or Bruce I would not have allowed this guy back in the building.Trent not showing up and not speaking about the situation has only hurt his teammates anf fans no one else.We all know Dan and Bruce don't care about anything but Trent leaving his teammates and fans out to dry has been lost in this whole story line. I don't like Dan I don't like Trent and I dont Bruce.

[LetThePointsSoar]

Am I the only one tempted to buy a Trent jersey soon as he's traded in the offseason and go on massive clearance? 

 

I don't get the hate in here for him, I think @KDawg nailed it above in his assessment of the situation. The guy is a hero in my book and I love him even more now.

 

We all talk about all the time of stopping to financially support the team to finally show how fed up we all are... I mean, the guy gave up SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS of his own money just to voice how much of a dysfunctional train wreck this organization is.  

 

In my mind, he's a HERO. Put him in the Ring of Honor and run Little Napoleon and The Prince of Darkness out of DC already. 

 

Hail. 

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Ghedrick said:

Trent is a bad teammate and if I was Dan or Bruce I would not have allowed this guy back in the building.Trent not showing up and not speaking about the situation has only hurt his teammates anf fans no one else.We all know Dan and Bruce don't care about anything but Trent leaving his teammates and fans out to dry has been lost in this whole story line. I don't like Dan I don't like Trent and I dont Bruce.

 

On the surface you're not wrong. But I think you underestimate how much of a business the game is at the pro level. Maybe not. Maybe you do and you just hate the way it is. But I don't think it can be denied that business is business. And a lot of times there absolutely are guys in the locker room that hate that as much as we do. You saw THAT with LeVeon Bell last year and his linemen making comments about the situation. But you also see, time and time again, the players supporting the players. It's a union mentality.

 

Beyond that, the Redskins have to let him in the building. If they don't he can file a grievance against them, get paid, and accrue a season.

 

Plus, I guarantee you that they are salivating at the thought of Williams at LT and Penn at RT and protecting Haskins down the stretch. I don't think 71 plays much if at all, but I don't think Bruce Allen believes that at all.

[profusion]

7 minutes ago, Ghedrick said:

Trent is a bad teammate 

 

Holding out for business reasons doesn't make him a "bad teammate." This guy gave it his all on the field for years and made the other guys look better--I've never heard of him slacking in practice, either.

 

These guys are professionals, each in charge of their own career. I hate to say it, but today's players are not emotionally invested in which color laundry they're wearing on any given Sunday nor do they view ownership as their "friend." It's a lucrative career, not a marriage. I'm sure everybody in that locker room understands why TW is doing this, even if no one has explained it publicly. 

[YourWish is MyCommanders]

I hope Trent will at least get out there and play his ass off in the remaining games. He really only hurts himself if he doesn’t in my opinion. I could care less who is at fault. 

[London Kev]

42 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

A point that has been proven in various social psychology experiments is that people tend to give complex (multi variable) reasons for their own decisions but give real simple explanations for how others make their decisions.  And not giving others the benefit of the doubt so much. 

 

To that point, I doubt Trent was all about just one thing as to why he did what he did.  I doubt it was that simple.    Money in that mix?  I bet it was.  Not loving how the Redskins roll in his years there or how they treated his holdout?  I bet that was part of it, too.  There is no way to know.  But if the dude is willing to forgo half his salary to make a point, I gather it wasn't all a money move.  If ex-teammates say they talked to him and its more than just money -- maybe there is something to it?

 

Well put. There's almost certainly a variety of reasons why he decided that enough was enough and it was time to move on, although in most employment disputes money is near the top.

 

Trent was my favourite player on the team.  In fact, his is the only jersey that I currently own (since the Jacoby and Fletcher jersey incident of 2015 ).

 

I don't blame him for holding out, although the actual timing could have been better.  If he doesn't want to be here, and if he made those reasons clear to the team, then the obvious thing to do is trade him. Maximise the return on your investment and move on. It's what most teams would have done IMO.

For some reason(s) Bruce has dug in and decided to wait it out. This appears on the surface to be merely stubborn pettiness but maybe he has some kind of master plan that isn't obvious yet, although I very much doubt it. I think he's an incompetent asshat

 

I believe that players are obligated to face the media and/or give pressers? Will be interesting to hear if he actually answers any questions.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Mpvanskins said:

I hope Trent will at least get out there and play his ass off in the remaining games. He really only hurts himself if he doesn’t in my opinion. I could care less who is at fault. 

 

It's an opinion, but I don't think he hurts himself at all, besides with some fans who let their emotions get in the way of seeing the total picture.

 

I get it, I'm frustrated he hasn't played, too. But remind yourselves: It's a business. I have to do it, too. But it is a business.

 

Other teams think the Redskins are a dumpster fire. Williams having an issue with the medical staff and Bruce Allen will hardly be seen as a pox against Williams.

[LightningBuggs]

2 hours ago, sempre_victrix said:

He'll pass his physical.

 

He'll come to practice and go through the motions.  He may fake a back or neck injury, at which point, the Redskins will be forced to put him on IR to save the roster spot.

 

Or

 

He will simply be inactive on game day.  Seriously, are you going to let him protect your shiny new QB?

 

The Redskins will try for a roster exemption to prevent him from getting his year accrued. 

 

It will get ugly.

 

At the end of the season, we will trade him for far less than we could have gotten last August.

 

Bruce claims victory.

 

The agony continues for the fans.

 

 

Perfect summary.  This is EXACTLY what will happen.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

One narrative I find hilarious is that Trent screwed his teammates.  As if his teammates are angry with him for what he’s doing.  As if they don’t get it.  As if they aren’t applauding this man behind the scenes for having the cajones to stick it to the man.  As if they glorify the C on his chest to the extent some fans seem to care about it, that it means he has to suck it up and play for douchebags. As if they really think Trent being there makes much of a difference to their awful record.

[dicksogj]

5 minutes ago, London Kev said:

 

I believe that players are obligated to face the media and/or give pressers? Will be interesting to hear if he actually answers any questions.

 

Agree but how about if the same rules apply to owners & GMs/Team Presidents   - especially ones who only face the media every 3-5 years at best?

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

One narrative I find hilarious is that Trent screwed his teammates.  As if his teammates are angry with him for what he’s doing.  As if they don’t get it.  As if they aren’t applauding this man behind the scenes for having the cajones to stick it to the man.  As if they glorify the C on his chest to the extent some fans seem to care about it, that it means he has to suck it up and play for douchebags. As if they really think Trent being there makes much of a difference to their awful record.

 

Yep & if he eventually gets traded to a contender most of them will likely be jealous but still wish him the best.  Would love to get an honest take from the Bama players like Allen & Payne to see how it feels coming from a 100% winning culture to this dumpster fire.

[HardcoreZorn]

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

One narrative I find hilarious is that Trent screwed his teammates.  As if his teammates are angry with him for what he’s doing.  As if they don’t get it.  As if they aren’t applauding this man behind the scenes for having the cajones to stick it to the man.  As if they glorify the C on his chest to the extent some fans seem to care about it, that it means he has to suck it up and play for douchebags. As if they really think Trent being there makes much of a difference to their awful record.

Trent screwed his teammates. The end. Stop doing mental gymnastics to make Williams look like some hero. As many other people have said, it doesn’t absolve the teams handling of the situation, so take a deep breath and remember that you can still hate Bruce Allen at the same time.

[SkinFanInMinn]

If it's at least partially personal between Trent and BA (which I think is at least part of it), there's no way Trent is going to let Bruce Smarmy Allen win with his "Trent will play this year for the Redskins" comment.

[megared]

I wonder where we go from here...do we:

 

A.  Deactivate him and tell him to stay away.

B.  Have him practice, but leave him inactive for gamedays.

C.  Practice and play him like anyone else.

D.  Try to place an exemption in efforts to prevent accrual of a year. 

 

I'm thinking we're going to see everyone's priorities shortly.  There's only one choice you can make here. The choice you'd expect any competent FO to make in 2019.