Owls0325

!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

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27 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Full disclosure, I have no real numbers or spectrum, but I’d say the Patriots lead the league in drama over last 15 years. 

 

Spygate

deflategate

Milloy

Murder

Brady vs Bill

Jimmy G 

Brady Trainer/Company

Gronk traded, then threatens retirement 

KRAFT soliciting sex

 

The Patriots literally have gone through murder, cheating, and sex scandals lol. 

 

 

Maybe so but I didn't compare them.  I just said we got a ton.  Giants have some, too.  I'd say we are likely in the top 5 in the league.  I didn't suggest you can't win when you got drama albeit it hasn't happened here.  For example the 1970s Yankee championship teams were full of drama. 

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2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maybe so but I didn't compare them.  I just said we got a ton.  Giants have some, too.  I'd say we are likely in the top 5 in the league.  I didn't suggest you can't win when you got drama albeit it hasn't happened here.  For example the 1970s Yankee championship teams were full of drama. 

You can win when you have drama, if everything else is well-oiled, and much of the drama isn't of your own making.  That's probably a better way to put it.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

You can win when you have drama, if everything else is well-oiled, and much of the drama isn't of your own making.  That's probably a better way to put it.

 

I think talent can overcome drama.  Also it depends what type of drama we are talking about.  I think if you got a killer good team it can drown out a lot of drama.  That theory hasn't really been put to the test here with the exception of maybe 2012 where it was said in retrospect that problems were brewing but the winning streak kept it from bubbling up right away. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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14 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

No doubt, we overvalue our own players.  Ryan Kerrigan being #1.  I love the guy and pretty much everything about him.  Consistently good but never elite at his position.

 

Man, Kerrigan could've been a complete beast under the right kind of defensive regime. Dude STILL hasn't played under a solid DC yet, and he's been with us for 8 years. I feel for him.

 

What Smoot and others have said should really be taken to heart by the owner, I hope. Snyder invested heavily in that new medical facility, but as has been chronicled, there is a real disconnect in the communication across the training-medical-strength/conditioning staffs, and also in the level of quality/trust.

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1 hour ago, JaxJoe said:

How does a hold-out affect our cap?  I think his salary will still be counted against the cap but he won’t be receiving any pay. If that’s the case, between Trent Williams and Alex Smith, thats nearly $30 million of cap for just two players who won’t play. The Redskins management needs to resolve this.

 

On the other hand, I’m hearing not-negative things about Geron Christian’s play. If Penn can be the stop-gap for 2019 and Christian can grow into the starting roll sooner than later, then the winner in this battle would be the Redskins as next year, we can have a windfall of recuperated cap and not have to expend a 1st on a LT. 

 

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe it's part of he end of year reconciliation and the only money that will count is the money they actually pay him. Once he starts to miss game checks that comes off the CAP but not till the end of the year. It does mean it could be rolled over to next year. 

 

I am virtually certain they solve this on e way or the other. Either they find a trade partner or Trent comes in time for the start of the season, with or without a new deal and they kiss and make up. I would think Trent needs them more than they need him since most of his salary is not guaranteed. But I do not think anyone would dispute that this team is better with Trent here than without him. 

 

Donald Penn may be more than just a stop gap to Geron if they need him to be. I could see him having a couple more years in him. But for me, unless Christian turns into a pro-bowler overnight, I see them going T early in next years draft. They almost have to. 

 

We will see. Will get interesting soon. Get your Coke and popcorn! Should be a good ride! 

 

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Lets play a game. Predict the next stud we lose off our roster for being discontent with the team.

 

It's easy, just pick our best player.  FML

 

Trent just wants to be traded.  Screw teaching him a lesson and fining him 40K per day. Trade him for a kings ransom. AKA, in Bruce's world, a Patriots 2020 3rd rounder and Jimmy going the other way.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

That's my take too. And that's where I think Williams looks the worst...if he wants out for those reasons, it is a bad look to embellish a medical issue just to get this way. 

 

Brewer in a radio interview said the losing is in the mix of the soup coupled with Trent not having faith in this specific FO to fix that and build a winner.  But that's one of a bunch of things mentioned.   As for what's true?  You got me.  Usually, for a relationship to have issues its a multitude of things as opposed to just one -- so its intuitive to me that the narrative that Trent has multiple issues makes sense to me. 

 

I haven't landed on a theory aside from three things:

A. Obviously Trent has a beef with something.  Multiple sources say he asked to be traded. We know he's holding out.  I doubt it's all for kicks and giggles so something is clearly up.

B.  The medical staff is likely part of the soup -- either in a big way or small way but its part of the soup.

C.  His gripe isn't likely about just the medical scare.

 

This part isn't directed at you.  As for whether the organization/medical staff or Trent is the bad guy here -- you got me.  Maybe neither one is the bad guy.     But considering I've heard for years that Trent is the leader in that locker room, he's smart and is the dude they look up to and the players (both current and ex) seem supportive of him -- then I doubt Trent has just gone off the reservation for a silly and insignificant reason.  If Santana is in tears (as he said) listening to Trent's story -- I'd assume there is something to his narrative.  

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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I wonder about the recommendation to get a second opinion.  I have read one version where the staff said he should get a second opinion, but it could wait until the end of the season.

 

If he goes for a second opinion, and the doctor is like "This looks very concerning.  Why did you wait to get this checked out?  If you need a second opinion because it is possible that it is a tumor... And a few weeks of delay in identifying the cancer could be fatal for you... Why would they recommend a delay in seeking further testing?"

 

I would be interested in a more detailed account of the issue.

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3 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

.  

 

I'll just point out that fans are fans and not professional football people that should know better.  Nobody on this board, that I'm aware of, is getting paid millions of dollars per year to do a job that very much includes managing these relationships. 

 

And tons of these relationships fail all the time for teams all across the NFL

 

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3 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

They've been known to show up at players' houses, yes. It's happened to Redskins' players actually.

Also, even if you're out of the country, you're not exempt.

 

In fact, you're not even safe hiding at your gramma's house...

 

https://larrybrownsports.com/football/kirk-cousins-drug-tested-grandmothers-house/179135

 

They know where you are.

Hide yo kids, Hide yo wife...

 

 

 

Funny story for this week.  Steven Jackson signed a 1 day contract to retire with the Rams.  He was randomly selected for a drug test that day.  

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1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Not that being a hypocrite is anything new for you, but isn't it ironic that you say that there is not really enough information to make a determination, yet - you have to throw your 2 cents in about what you think is going on, when you know just as much as the people you point fingers at.

 

Could have have scripted this part from you myself, take a shot and then say something that makes no sense. 

 

I didn’t say people can’t have opinions or discuss the matter. But when you argue against anyone who takes issue with the player, your biases shine through clear as day. It MUST be the organization. Is that not what you have insinuated? Have you also not said no one really knows the full story here? Do you see how those are contradicting? Nah probably not. 

 

 

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Cravers of dysfunction....That's a new one.  But for anyone who actually craves dysfunction, the Washington Redskins are the Golden Corral.  

 

Yes, posters like you who post more in a couple hour span on a topic like this and are no where to be found in a thread about how awesome the front 7 is/could be as an example, are fans that crave the dysfunction. You are so passionate about the fact that the Redskins are dysfunctional and spend most of your time on here throwing up your hands and wondering how anyone could come to a different conclusion than you. And it leads to literally zero nuance in your post, no middle or grey area. It’s all, “well no one really knows, but how you could vilify the player here is beyond me” even if there is some evidence coming out there’s not a great deal of malpractice or wrong doing on the team’s part. 

 

 But again we don’t know. I don’t know which is why I haven’t taken a hard stance. Just don’t parade around wondering why people have different opinions than you and acting like anyone who can see some middle ground or assigns blame to the player is some bumbling blind idiot who adulates the FO.

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1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

That's a fair assessment. And I'm glad you mentioned that he should be appreciated (which I think he is) while also still not paid for things he's already done. When determining how to compensate a player, you better be looking at what you believe they WILL DO moving forward. 

 

It's funny you brought up Kerrigan...he's a primary reason I would hate to see the team give Williams more money to resolve this issue. Because the second they do, if Kerrigan's agent is any good at all he would be picking up the phone and calling Bruce Allen. 

He’s much more easily replaceable as he plays a position that’s much more common. It shouldn’t be that difficult to find someone staring at his hands 75% of the time after whiffing on an INT that went through his arms for 8-10 mil

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5 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Could have have scripted this part from you myself, take a shot and then say something that makes no sense. 

 

I didn’t say people can’t have opinions or discuss the matter. But when you argue against anyone who takes issue with the player, your biases shine through clear as day. It MUST be the organization. Is that not what you have insinuated? Have you also not said no one really knows the full story here? Do you see how those are contradicting? Nah probably not. 

I am not hiding from the fact that I tend to favor the player over the organization until a heap of evidence suggests otherwise.  I couldn't be more transparent about where I stand on these matters. 

 

16 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Yes, posters like you who post more in a couple hour span on a topic like this and are no where to be found in a thread about how awesome the front 7 is/could be as an example, are fans that crave the dysfunction. You are so passionate about the fact that the Redskins are dysfunctional and spend most of your time on here throwing up your hands and wondering how anyone could come to a different conclusion than you. And it leads to literally zero nuance in your post, no middle or grey area. It’s all, “well no one really knows, but how you could vilify the player here is beyond me” even if there is some evidence coming out there’s not a great deal of malpractice or wrong doing on the team’s part. 

 

 But again we don’t know. I don’t know which is why I haven’t taken a hard stance. Just don’t parade around wondering why people have different opinions than you and acting like anyone who can see some middle ground or assigns blame to the player is some bumbling blind idiot who adulates the FO.

I'd say Trent Williams is a really big deal to this team.  Hence the reason there are 90+ pages on this very topic.  Such audacity though, trying to act like you are a diverse poster, as if you're entire persona here isn't built upon your love for Bruce Allen and defending him at every turn.  I find it funny that you say there is no nuance in my post, yet I've said several times in different capacities, that this issue is probably about way more than any one event - that it has to be more complicated than anything that's been reported.  My point is there is a history here of always vilifying the player, who always performs better than the organization.  It's just a wierd dynamic, that atleast some people admit, they are totally biased and irrational about this stuff.

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45 minutes ago, Nerm said:

 

Funny story for this week.  Steven Jackson signed a 1 day contract to retire with the Rams.  He was randomly selected for a drug test that day.  

I read that 😂😂 why’d he get selected? That’s kinda odd....what does the league hope to get out of doing that? Suspend him? He’s retiring anyway 😂😂😂

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3 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

I read that 😂😂 why’d he get selected? That’s kinda odd....what does the league hope to get out of doing that? Suspend him? He’s retiring anyway 😂😂😂

 

Maybe they meant to show that it truly is random! A name is on a list as a player in the league and some program or process selects from that list. If anything, it refutes the point of the guys who feel they're being picked on 

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15 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

I read that 😂😂 why’d he get selected? That’s kinda odd....what does the league hope to get out of doing that? Suspend him? He’s retiring anyway 😂😂😂

 

He should take a bunch of stuff to try to fail on as many fronts as possible - Troll Goodell

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From CBSSports.com article:

 

Quote

and one who blames the medical staff for what he views as poor care, a misdiagnosis and a botched procedure to remove a growth from his head that led to the 31-year-old requiring yet another "clean up" procedure --

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/redskins-dispute-trent-williams-trade-report-prepared-to-levy-hefty-fines-for-holdout/

 

So, the first procedure (which would have been done by the doctor he picked)  was a botched procedure requiring the clean up procedure and he is mad at the medical staff for that too?  **** is getting laughable at this point, not talking about the cancer scare or botched procedure, just the fact that he blames them for the botching of the procedure in which they didn't have anything to do with.  

 

Unless I'm reading it wrong and it is implying that the team's medical staff performed the initial procedure of removing the growth and he then had to go in for the clean up procedure.  But I don't think it went down like that.

 

 

 

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Football is a business.  It's by no means a perfect business but its employees are paid excessively well for their efforts.  Employees become disgruntled all the time with valid and invalid complaints; employees have the option of living with it and getting paid, doing your job while lobbying for change and getting paid, or leaving and not getting paid.   Based on all I have read, Trent is not a dumb guy.  I expect he will use whatever leverage he has to effect whatever change he desires, but he will not pass up the income available to prove his point.  The only way I see Trent not our LT on opening day (if physically able) is if he is traded, but I find it highly unlikely an equitable trade will be available.  I suspect the Redskins will increase the guaranteed funds and waive all the fines so both sides can save face.

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Posted (edited)

My preferred outcome to this is for Trent to be traded irrespective of whats going on.  So am hoping Dan doesn't interfere.    I am more optimistic than most as for what they can get for Trent.   Potentially it seems like you can get multiple suitors and if so that should amp up his trade value.  IMO learn the Patriot way -- trade assets when they are at peak market or close enough before they plunge.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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I would hope we would "win" the trade if we trade Trent Williams. That said, even if we "win" the trade we are unlikely to get fair value. A franchise left tackle is worth a boatload of picks. My hope is that Jay gets his brother John to do the actual horse trading. The Raiders fleeced a whole lot of teams and got premium value over and over again.

 

Maybe we can put John Gruden on retainer? Certainly, he has to believe in a little brotherly love.

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2 hours ago, DiscoBob said:

 

He should take a bunch of stuff to try to fail on as many fronts as possible - Troll Goodell

 

Just casual conversation with the guy administering the test.

 

"So, what is the record for the number of banned substances ever found in a single sample?"

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9 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Contributing? Sure.  But waiting until after the draft and free agency dries up feels malicious AF.  I threw away my Champ and Lavar Jerseys, if he does get traded, I'd get rid of my TW if I had one.

NO!!

Get a Charles Mann name-plate sewed on the back...

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25 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I would hope we would "win" the trade if we trade Trent Williams. That said, even if we "win" the trade we are unlikely to get fair value. A franchise left tackle is worth a boatload of picks. My hope is that Jay gets his brother John to do the actual horse trading. The Raiders fleeced a whole lot of teams and got premium value over and over again.

 

Maybe we can put John Gruden on retainer? Certainly, he has to believe in a little brotherly love.

 

This is why we're going to lose this trade.  No one is going to give us a top 10 pick that used to get him in the first place, and we'd still be screwed from an oline standpoint this season.  Hes too old and doesnt play 16 games anymore, I'd be shocked if we got more then a third rounder.

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The Redskins should think outside the box to get value for Trent.  Tell the Texans that they will trade Trent to them without any compensation back... As long as Alex Smith is included in the trade.

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