Owls0325

!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Bang said:

The entire point of a second opinion is to confirm the first opinion, or get new info from a new set of eyes.

 

So if the team says "it doesn't look serious".. followed by a recommendation to get a second opinion (which SHOULD be the standard adult response anyway when it comes to this sort of thing)...

I don't care WHAT they tell you after that, even if you press them and they say "it isn't serious"... 

the whole point of a second opinion, which is reportedly suggested, is to find out if the fiest opinion is correct.

 

IF this is the issue,, it is 1000000% on TRENT.

GROW UP, BIG MAN.

 

But i still think it's money.

 

~Bang

 

I agree 100%.

 

If the team docs are so horrific, why would Penn sign here after talking to Trent?

 

I think he's using the medical staff argument as a way to squeeze more money/years/guarantees out of the team.  He saw how we ****ed up negotiations with Cousins, who was paid stupid money and got a ridiculous contract from the Vikings.  Trent knows his body is breaking down and he probably only has a few more years left in him.  Why not take a shot and try to get really paid?

 

He's been a warrior and played when hurt, but he was also well compensated.  If all of the information that we've gotten is accurate, it's a **** move on his part.

 

Edited by sempre_victrix
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Posted (edited)

I am with the people here who say we still don't know enough to make a definitive conclusion.  But yeah for me its hard for me to land hard on Trent being a baby and the problem.  If that's true what does that say about the makeup of this team?   We've heard a billion times, Trent's the leader in the locker room, a good dude, etc.   So its hard for me to me imagine all read Trent wrong or he's done a personality transplant over night.  And if Trent's some big baby and he's the main leader in the locker room (as most say he's the leader that many look up to) -- then we got some problems if that's true. 

 

When Santana talked about his conversation with Trent, he said he was in tears by the end of the conversation.  So for me while I admit it's tough to know what went down -- its clear that all the facts about what went down are not out.    Multiple articles have said Trent's issue is about multiple things and not just this.  What are those multiple things?  You got me.  But somehow I doubt people at Redskins Park (the medical staff or whomever) were right at every turn with Trent and Trent was the one who mishandled it all.  You never know but for me I'd need the rest of the narrative first to go into that boat.

 

I think one thing gets lost in this conversation a lot is multiple sources said Trent has multiple beefs with the organization -- the cyst on his head was the straw that broke the camel's back (according to multiple people covering the story) as opposed to the only feature of the movie.  So if we are arguing that the whole narrative is fully about this incident then the whole discussion might be off track. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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2 minutes ago, sempre_victrix said:

 

I agree 100%.

 

If the team docs are so horrific, why would Penn sign here after talking to Trent?

 

He could have simply told him to use his own doctors. Some others on the team (current and former players) have used their own. Penn wants one more shot playing LT before he retires (which he has indicated will be after this coming season); and he wants to start. The Skins were his best opportunity for that. And even though Trent allegedly hates George Allen's son, he does still love his team. Perhaps suggesting to Penn that he sign is an indication of that. Penn was, of course, the best possible alternative at LT for the Skins, including anyone on the roster before he arrived this week. Let's hope it all works out for everyone involved.

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8 hours ago, Unbias said:

 

Just my opinion, but I doubt that's the case. It's the NFL. Players compete for jobs every single season and not much is given. 

 

If he was threatened by Christian by that same logic shouldn't he of been threatened by Ty's previous deal? 

 

 

No. Ty had been around and he knew he wasn't a threat. There was probably noise in his ear that Christian was drafted to replace him. 

 

I think fans write off human emotion too fast in these matters. We tend to think these dudes are robots. If he felt slighted with that, and then the medical situation occurred as it did, it could lead someone to feel unappreciated. And thus... this. 

 

Or it's all bull**** and he just wants money. I don't think it matters much either way. We are where we are.

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2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am with the people here who say we still don't know enough to make a definitive conclusion. 

Who are those people?  Seems most everyone has their mind made up already. 🤣

 

What is most unbelievable though, are those that truly believe this is some out of the blue, conjured up scheme to hold the team hostage for money.  This isn't a stunt you pull without a legitimate grievance.  There is so much we don't know about what goes on behind the scenes at Redskins Park.  What we do know for certain is there is regular drama coming out of the place in one way or another.  

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2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think fans write off human emotion too fast in these matters. We tend to think these dudes are robots. If he felt slighted with that, and then the medical situation occurred as it did, it could lead someone to feel unappreciated. And thus... this. 

I agree that most fans don't appear to grasp the human element to this stuff.  The way I understood the Christian dynamic, is not that he felt unappreciated, but that it was a perplexing selection given the state of the Skins Oline.  The whole world knew how badly they needed help at G, yet they select a tackle in the 3rd round.  He has a big deal, Moses too, with Scherff coming up.  I can understand where his mind could go after that selection, all things considered.

 

I feel confident that his decision to not show up to camp is not as the result of any one or two events, like drafting Christian or the bump on his head, but a culmination of a lot of things over a long period of time, and the misdiagnosis or whatever took place was merely the final straw.

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Posted (edited)

 

40 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Who are those people?  Seems most everyone has their mind made up already. 🤣

 

What is most unbelievable though, are those that truly believe this is some out of the blue, conjured up scheme to hold the team hostage for money.  This isn't a stunt you pull without a legitimate grievance.  There is so much we don't know about what goes on behind the scenes at Redskins Park.  What we do know for certain is there is regular drama coming out of the place in one way or another.  

 

LOL.  To me an operative point in that story seems to be that Trent is upset about multiple things that have accumulated.  Multiple reporters at least agree on that point.   The cyst supposedly was the last straw.  Some of the discussion ignores that point and focuses purely on the cyst as if he was happy as a clam and then the cyst set him off.  In a long term relationship of any kind, it's rare for one thing to be exclusively the be all and end all as for how you feel.  The idea that its an accumulation of things seems intuitive to me. 

 

Maybe Trent's being a baby about all of it and the organization treated him like a king at every step and or their medical staff is killer good.  You got me.  Just digesting the narratives, Trent might have been overly sensitive in the mix but we don't know what got him to that point if that's so.  But when every beat reporter talking on the radio have all admitted that players have privately griped to them about the medical staff -- and the team is the 2nd most injured team in the NFL in the last 5 years, if I recall the most injured in the last 2 -- then maybe there might be some legitimate smoke to the fire?

 

I've a heard a million times about how Trent is a great guy and the leader in the locker room stuff.  The idea that he wants to take a stand against the medical staff or whatever -- doesn't seem outlandish.

 

I've also said on this thread if its purely about a money grab then I don't support it -- he's under contract.  Unless the angle is wanting more guaranteed money in the mix of what he's currently getting paid.  

 

Regardless, this team has to lead the league in drama.  Somehow stuff keeps happening.  And it goes back a long way.  D. McNabb, AH, Cravens, just different things it seems almost every year. Why?  I am not sure.   But Trent has ironically being one of the ones continually propped up as a key leader-culture setter. 

 

 

31 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I agree that most fans don't appear to grasp the human element to this stuff.  The way I understood the Christian dynamic, is not that he felt unappreciated, but that it was a perplexing selection given the state of the Skins Oline.  The whole world knew how badly they needed help at G, yet they select a tackle in the 3rd round.  He has a big deal, Moses too, with Scherff coming up.  I can understand where his mind could go after that selection, all things considered.

 

 

Brewer elaborated on it some on the radio yesterday -- saying Trent thought the team was in position to go for it as to winning now and didn't agree with skipping guard on that front and going with a tackle.  He didn't like the FO's overall approach to the off season in that context.   Or something like that.   Trent wants to win before he retires.  Is that true I don't know but Brewer expounded on it.

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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I doubt that we'll ever know the absolute truth, no matter what happens.

 

If he sits out the season, we're no worse off than we are now, and we recoup his salary.  Is he willing to lose 2 years of pay?  If he sits out, don't we retain his rights for the year he sits?

 

I predict that he is traded before the first game of the season.  Some team is going to lose a LT in camp and be desperate.  We get a good pick, roll with Penn, and draft a LT next year.  But who knows.

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8 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Eh, I wouldn't fault him for wanting to play for a contender.  

 

I dont think it's that simple, though.  This isnt about losing, this is personal, our best player hates our guts.  And as a fan. What the hell did I do?

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10 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I agree that most fans don't appear to grasp the human element to this stuff.  The way I understood the Christian dynamic, is not that he felt unappreciated, but that it was a perplexing selection given the state of the Skins Oline.  The whole world knew how badly they needed help at G, yet they select a tackle in the 3rd round.  He has a big deal, Moses too, with Scherff coming up.  I can understand where his mind could go after that selection, all things considered.

 

I feel confident that his decision to not show up to camp is not as the result of any one or two events, like drafting Christian or the bump on his head, but a culmination of a lot of things over a long period of time, and the misdiagnosis or whatever took place was merely the final straw.

 

that's because most of us are poor enough that when it comes to money we aren't allowed to have a human element to our employment.  If the people who control our checks  does something we dislike we have to take it

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1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I dont think it's that simple, though.  This isnt about losing, this is personal, our best player hates our guts.  And as a fan. What the hell did I do?

 

As a fan, did you attend that last few games at FedEx last year? Not many fans did, but a whole lot of opposing fans did. I think there were more than 70% Giants fans in on the last game.

 

As fans, we totally gave up on these guys who were battling it out each and every day through adversity and a bad situation. These players see the amount of fans in their "home" field and have to wonder: What the hell did I do?

 

i am not saying this is the reason why TW is upset with the team, but all of these players have lived their whole lives being adored by their fans and given everything on a silver platter. When that stops, or if they begin to feel slighted, then...

 

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Just now, rick7423 said:

 

As a fan, did you attend that last few games at FedEx last year? Not many fans did, but a whole lot of opposing fans did. I think there were more than 70% Giants fans in on the last game.

 

As fans, we totally gave up on these guys who were battling it out each and every day through adversity and a bad situation. These players see the amount of fans in their "home" field and have to wonder: What the hell did I do?

 

i am not saying this is the reason why TW is upset with the team, but all of these players have lived their whole lives being adored by their fans and given everything on a silver platter. When that stops, or if they begin to feel slighted, then...

 

 

There could be a lot of truth to this aspect.  Let's face it, they want to be cheered and when the cheering stops, it has to hurt a bit.  But they need to understand and accept that winning, or at least good play, begets cheering.  This team, for various reasons, has not been playing well and the organization has looked very dysfunctional.

 

To me, millions of dollars assuages a lot of hurt feeling, but I'm not a well-off pro athlete, either.

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Just now, rick7423 said:

 

As a fan, did you attend that last few games at FedEx last year? Not many fans did, but a whole lot of opposing fans did. I think there were more than 70% Giants fans in on the last game.

 

As fans, we totally gave up on these guys who were battling it out each and every day through adversity and a bad situation. These players see the amount of fans in their "home" field and have to wonder: What the hell did I do?

 

i am not saying this is the reason why TW is upset with the team, but all of these players have lived their whole lives being adored by their fans and given everything on a silver platter. When that stops, or if they begin to feel slighted, then...

 

I went to three games last year, including the philly take over at home where we got shutout. 

 

If I'm not mistaken fans got called out for not coming then they started losing themselves out of first place.  Again, it's not that simple, we are on the other end of this long term relationship, and have been fans longer then many of them have been NFL players, let alone on this team.

 

Trent has been here long enough to see this get worse, talking about accumulation, this didnt happen over night and it wont get fixed overnight. 

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2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I went to three games last year, including the philly take over at home where we got shutout. 

 

If I'm not mistaken fans got called out for not coming then they started losing themselves out of first place.  Again, it's not that simple, we are on the other end of this long term relationship, and have been fans longer then many of them have been NFL players, let alone on this team.

 

Trent has been here long enough to see this get worse, talking about accumulation, this didnt happen over night and it wont get fixed overnight. 

I was there also repping my B&G! it was embarrassing to see that takeover and how total and effective that it was.

 

I have been to several other stadiums and nothing even comes close to the amount of opposing fans that come to FedEx. It MUST be disheartening to the players and affects how they play. Several years ago the Dolphins came to FedEx and their coach stated after the game that it felt like a home game for them.

 

You are right that Trent has been here long enough and has seen the good, bad and ugly of the Redskins. Again, I am not saying that this is the reason for being butt hurt, I am saying that it is probably (?!?) a contributing factor.

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7 minutes ago, rick7423 said:

I was there also repping my B&G! it was embarrassing to see that takeover and how total and effective that it was.

 

I have been to several other stadiums and nothing even comes close to the amount of opposing fans that come to FedEx. It MUST be disheartening to the players and affects how they play. Several years ago the Dolphins came to FedEx and their coach stated after the game that it felt like a home game for them.

 

You are right that Trent has been here long enough and has seen the good, bad and ugly of the Redskins. Again, I am not saying that this is the reason for being butt hurt, I am saying that it is probably (?!?) a contributing factor.

 

Contributing? Sure.  But waiting until after the draft and free agency dries up feels malicious AF.  I threw away my Champ and Lavar Jerseys, if he does get traded, I'd get rid of my TW if I had one.

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Posted (edited)

Mike Jones below.  He was on Finlay's show that morning and seemed optimistic that they'd figure it out.   

 

For me I'll stick to Trent needs to give his side before I make my mind up on this.  But I am relaxed about how it unfolds because I don't mind trading him -- and my rationale for that has nothing to do with this story.  I just see this as a rebuilding team.

 

Just judging purely based on whats being said.    I am supportive of Trent if its about a long gripe about the medical staff or whatever if its something that other players also share and he's speaking up for everyone -- as its being suggested by some.

 

As for the idea of a player is upset and want to leave but are willing to stick around if they throw a lot of money at them.  I get the point in theory which is they'd deal with things they don't like if they overpaid or highly paid, etc.  Personally, I think that weakens Trent's stance (if its true).  IMO if you want to take a stand on whatever, then don't also say that you can be paid off and overlook it.   If you do that, then IMO you lose some of the moral high ground you are trying to assume if you also say you can be bought off.  But then again guys like D. Hall and others say Trent can't be pleased in this case via money.

 

So it goes back to me that there are too many narratives that are conflicting to land hard on a position.  But for me, if they trade him I am more than fine with that if they get good compensation so I am relaxed about how this all unfolds. 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2019/08/01/trent-williams-washington-redskins-holdout-jay-gruden/1893054001/

 

People with knowledge of the situation, who spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the situation, confirmed to USA TODAY Sports that Williams at one point this offseason did request a trade, and his camp asked for a raise at another juncture. But Washington rebuffed both demands. And, despite various reports, they haven’t made calls around the league soliciting trade offers for Williams.

“He’s the best left tackle in the league,” Gruden explained. “When he’s not on your team, you’ve got to adjust what you do and adjust to whoever’s in the game. There’s a lot of things that he can do that most tackles can’t, so when he’s not out there, those plays are out. We have other ways to attack, but at the end of the day, I am still very hopeful that we get him back here.”

 

Earlier in the offseason, a person familiar with the situation told USA TODAY Sports that money probably would fix things in Williams’ mind. But at that time, Washington officials didn’t feel inclined to meet such demands because Williams still has two years left on his deal. The Redskins held the stance that if Williams wanted to play, he would report for work, and if not, he would stay home. The team didn’t need to do anything.

 
Edited by Skinsinparadise

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46 minutes ago, carex said:

 

that's because most of us are poor enough that when it comes to money we aren't allowed to have a human element to our employment.  If the people who control our checks  does something we dislike we have to take it

I've been there myself in the workplace.  That doesn't prevent me from seeing things from another perspective or putting myself in someone else's shoes. I'll just never understand the mentality of 'my situation sucks, so should yours'.  

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53 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 our best player hates our guts.

 

I reiterate...

 

Penn signed here after talking to Williams. He can't hate the team that much. I think his problems ARE personal. And I think he knows that they are personal. My guess is that he likes his teammates and maybe even the coaches but has some issues with the way stuff has been handled. Thus why he wouldn't want to stay but wouldn't sway someone else not to. If you were him, and you really hated everything about this franchise, wouldn't you say whatever you could to keep a decent LT prospect away in order to hurt the organization?

 

He didn't do that. And he absolutely could have.

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52 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I dont think it's that simple, though.  This isnt about losing, this is personal, our best player hates our guts.  And as a fan. What the hell did I do?

 

This has nothing to do with the fans.  Trent feels disrespected and not looked after by the team, which is consistent with everything the organization has showed us for the past 20 years.  Trent isn't a "it's just business" type of person.  He plays through injuries even though it's not in his best interest from a career and financial perspective because he feels like it is his responsibility to the team to do that, and he's justified in wanting the team to adhere to their responsibilities, which is to provide him with an appropriate medical team and to not disrespect him.  I get that signing a 3rd rounder as a LT shouldn't be seen as disrespect, but there are also ways that a team should go about it (i.e., communicating with the player) and I have no confidence that the front office bothers with that. 

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21 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Contributing? Sure.  But waiting until after the draft and free agency dries up feels malicious AF.  I threw away my Champ and Lavar Jerseys, if he does get traded, I'd get rid of my TW if I had one.

 

Why is it malicious? You realize had he said something before - which there are some accounts that he made the team aware as early as March - that it wold be better for him. As for the team, it's better for them to wait. They hold all the leverage other than him playing. And sorry, but even a pro-bowler can be replaced as is being demonstrated.

 

The rest is not directly at you specifically: 

I just do not get the emotional response to this entire thing - for or against Trent or the team. This is part of business in the NFL.  Both sides are doing what they feel they need to do that's in their own best interest. 

 

There seems to be a need to "blame" someone or at least vilify one side or the other, and with almost no actual information. Let's see how this ends and then what the full facts are. Then we can assign blame and vilify the proper party if it's warranted. My suspicion is that those taking the extreme positions - the team screwed him and he is right to Trent is an ass if screwing his teammates - will not change their minds no matter what the facts turn out to be. 

 

Such is how it goes with the 24/7 news cycles when we find out way too little way too fast. 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

There seems to be a need to "blame" someone or at least vilify one side or the other, and with almost no actual information.

 

Agreed.

 

Now, having said that, let's blame Bruce Allen anyways.

Edited by KDawg
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3 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

  I get that signing a 3rd rounder as a LT shouldn't be seen as disrespect, but there are also ways that a team should go about it (i.e., communicating with the player) and I have no confidence that the front office bothers with that. 

On this scenario, I don’t expect the FO to run personnel decisions by players.  But yes, they should communicate the ‘why’ to the faces of your franchise.  Particularly when it doesn’t add up.  You desperately need a guard, but you select a tackle there.  I venture a guess he was less hurt and more perturbed that they didn’t fix the glaring need.  One that he is more familiar with than anyone.

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8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I reiterate...

 

Penn signed here after talking to Williams. He can't hate the team that much. I think his problems ARE personal. And I think he knows that they are personal. My guess is that he likes his teammates and maybe even the coaches but has some issues with the way stuff has been handled. Thus why he wouldn't want to stay but wouldn't sway someone else not to. If you were him, and you really hated everything about this franchise, wouldn't you say whatever you could to keep a decent LT prospect away in order to hurt the organization?

 

He didn't do that. And he absolutely could have.

 

5 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

This has nothing to do with the fans.  Trent feels disrespected and not looked after by the team, which is consistent with everything the organization has showed us for the past 20 years.  Trent isn't a "it's just business" type of person.  He plays through injuries even though it's not in his best interest from a career and financial perspective because he feels like it is his responsibility to the team to do that, and he's justified in wanting the team to adhere to their responsibilities, which is to provide him with an appropriate medical team and to not disrespect him.  I get that signing a 3rd rounder as a LT shouldn't be seen as disrespect, but there are also ways that a team should go about it (i.e., communicating with the player) and I have no confidence that the front office bothers with that. 

 

For clarification I feel like I jus got the shrapnel from the bomb he tried to drop on Bruce.  As fans, were collateral damage from a decision he meant for maximum effect, so regardless of how complicated he really feels, th damage is still the same, and he had to know or did not care of the ramifications.  He intentionally put us in the worst spot possible to get what he wants, so whether that was meant for the front office or not his team and us fans got hit, too.  He knows this.

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Just now, KDawg said:

 

Having said this, let's just go ahead and blame Bruce Allen anyways. I'm in for that.

 

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